i don't think i'm gamma

[redbaron]

slightly unrelated question at the whole forum: is it odd to find people "cold"?

by " people" do you mean those with in the ego? Or valuers. Cause I used to think my SLE friend was kind of cold before I got to know him. He values it but doesn't have it in his ego. Nobody that I know, with as either a base or creative function, comes across as cold. I suppose, with the introverts you could get some of that feeling initially if you hadn't ever had a conversation with them or watched them interact with anyone. for example, if someone saw me on a plane by myself and that's all they knew of me, they could easily get the idea that I was cold. Because I keep everything to myself. But if someone needed help on that plane or asked me a question, they would probably see that I'm not cold since the situation would unleash the pretty quickly.

[implied]

I would encourage you to wait to have that kind of interaction with a healthy IEI before making such a judgment.



Alpha Fe, yeah, it would be a bit of an outlier, but Beta Fe, no, not at all.

this is more or less what i thought. and really i think the likelihood of me finding an IEI/EIE that i perceive to be "healthy" is very slim, but of course this isn't the case with all of them. i'm just saying i'm more likely to see them as cold motherfuckers.

i don't think alpha Fe bugs me that much except that occasionally alphas can strike me as a bit silly/giddy.

No, it is not—but this occurs more so with beta NFs. I have been told by certain individuals in this community that I "never seem to have a stable emotional state" which they can gauge (Fi connection, etc.); also, like numbers mentioned, it can be used in a manipulative way, and also appear "superficial" in its presentation. "Cold" obviously spans farther than the socionics paradigm; Fi types get stereotypically viewed as cold by more expressive Fe types, etc.

fwiw I don't perceive you as cold. But I still think you're clearly Fi/Te.

sounds accurate.

[Gilly]

this is more or less what i thought. and really i think the likelihood of me finding an IEI/EIE that i perceive to be "healthy" is very slim, but of course this isn't the case with all of them. i'm just saying i'm more likely to see them as cold motherfuckers.

I'm going to go out on a limb and venture the guess that you don't think I'm EIE

[implied]

I'm going to go out on a limb and venture the guess that you don't think I'm EIE

i have probably considered EIE as your type more seriously than you would ever believe. and probably more seriously than many users here have. although i can't say i'm fully convinced that some dominant isn't a better choice for you.

[strrrng]

i don't think alpha Fe bugs me that much except that occasionally alphas can strike me as a bit silly/giddy.

This may a good thing to look into: which Fe style you find more irritating. Is it the overly-competitive, abrasive beta Fe, or the idiotic, foolish alpha Fe (negative stereotypes, lol).

It seems dislikes shed a lot of light on this kind of thing; I can deal with gamma Fi hellah better than delta *righteous* Fi. I would expect general trends to carry out through the socion in this fashion.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

re: ifmd95 and his uncertainty about his type - in my own case, the more i know the more i tend to see myself using various functions from time to time, in everyday life. this causes me to doubt my base function and such things. it has really never been some reason for me to doubt his understanding of socionics, though. fwiw i've also known doctors who are horrible patients and horrible at diagnosing themselves. i suppose the issue is that the more you know, the more you wonder what you aren't seeing from the outside. i say myself that i think "coldness", gamma or not, is a very negative trait and not one that i prefer to be around. i also agree with the stance hostagechild has taken, where perhaps gammas don't see themselves as cold but they really are. i don't believe that the people who know me best would describe me as cold, but i could be totally wrong.

Yeah, just to make it clear (incase I have to) I wasn't wanting to criticise him, I think he says some good things and seems like a decent guy. I see you're analogy on the patient/doctor thing.

fwiw, on the "cold" stuff, I don't see myself as cold at all, but there are people I work for instance who think I am. Self perception and external perception all.

Also, people that know me well, don't think i'm cold, that's with my friends. But if I'm typing them right, my best friends are Gamma/Delta, so maybe they view it all differently.. what this "coldness" is.

Eh, I also think that it's different for rationals and irrationals, because now that I think about it, I can find LSE's or EII often "colder" than the irrational counterparts.

Some alpha Fe types I don't think are cold, but generally it's a bit too "light" for me. This isn't to say anything bad, because again I know some cool alphas, so it's just how this cold thing is perceived which to me sounds pretty subjective.

I mean, I don't think you are overflowing with Fe on the forums for sure :-)

Perhaps there is something in this that you can take from. Probably not though lol :-p

well, i think i've been typed by various users as nearly every type in the socion, all of which i've taken into account before feeling like XLI was a good bet. really the problem is that i listen to other people too much hah.

Me neither. lol dunno if it's a good thing or a bad thing. Like everything a bit of both (I say this to make myself feel better haha)

i have read the associated vocabulary with each element and although i see where it's coming from, it seems rather a shaky way to type someone although i see the merits of it. and fwiw i don't see the jarno comparison but then perhaps you're seeing something i'm not.

It is a bit shaky. I found I identified with the Te one more. I dunno I think that our base is so intrinsic that it's difficult to realise it's actually there.

I then thought about the conversations I have with friends were I'm having the most fun and identified with the Si one.

I agree it's a bit shaky to type someone on it, (and it's not what i'm using to type myself or you just on that) ... it's just another tool I suppose.

Re Jarno, dunno if I can explain it. Maybe it's not there. I'll maybe try and find words to express it, but maybe not because i'm not sure if it will help.

I don't know if it's been asked in the thread, but you don't think you're gamma. I would say what quadra, but I would prefer to ask, what type do you think you are if not ILI, or some other gamma type?

edit:

This may a good thing to look into: which Fe style you find more irritating. Is it the overly-competitive, abrasive beta Fe, or the idiotic, foolish alpha Fe (negative stereotypes, lol).

It seems dislikes shed a lot of light on this kind of thing; I can deal with gamma Fi hellah better than delta *righteous* Fi. I would expect general trends to carry out through the socion in this fashion.

Yeah I was thinking that too.

[07490]

This may a good thing to look into: which Fe style you find more irritating. Is it the overly-competitive, abrasive beta Fe, or the idiotic, foolish alpha Fe (negative stereotypes, lol).

It seems dislikes shed a lot of light on this kind of thing; I can deal with gamma Fi hellah better than delta *righteous* Fi. I would expect general trends to carry out through the socion in this fashion.

Ummm I would think that Delta would dislike alpha Fe and Gamma would dislike Beta Fe, becuase they are interconnected, so they would most likly connect with each other on the NE/SI, NI/SE but closer relationship brings different kinds of outlook in Te/Fi which will clash harder. Just like the biggest disagreement I have in life with others are from Alpha and not really Delta.

[FDG]

Implied is my dual.

[strrrng]

Ummm I would think that Delta would dislike alpha Fe and Gamma would dislike Beta Fe, becuase they are interconnected, so they would most likly connect with each other on the NE/SI, NI/SE but closer relationship brings different kinds of outlook in Te/Fi which will clash harder. Just like the biggest disagreement I have in life with others are from Alpha and not really Delta.

That's a decent point. Opposing quadras do tend to have a "neutralizing" sort of effect. But try relating to delta Fi, or just their styles in general; that's kind of what I was alluding to. Even though the neighboring quadras may clash because of similar goals but different means (vice-versa), the opposing quadras you just won't. get. And, on the whole, I would think maria, if gamma, would prefer dealing with betas over alphas, etc.

[implied]

This may a good thing to look into: which Fe style you find more irritating. Is it the overly-competitive, abrasive beta Fe, or the idiotic, foolish alpha Fe (negative stereotypes, lol).

It seems dislikes shed a lot of light on this kind of thing; I can deal with gamma Fi hellah better than delta *righteous* Fi. I would expect general trends to carry out through the socion in this fashion.

right, i can agree with that and don't think i haven't considered it. it's actually part of what has continually left me doubting gamma-dom. and that is what leaves me at "not gamma." i find the occasionally abrasive, overly-competitive beta Fe much more jarring and annoying than the sort of giddy and occasionally foolish/idiotic alpha Fe. both strike me as occasionally shallow, but still. i mean i expect people to have weaknesses and fuck up in life, so i suppose i am not bugged by foolish alpha Fe. (e.g. ESE brian wilson sort of fucking up his life for a while but subsequently pulling it back together is something i can respect, not something i criticize.)

but i have certainly IRL had more problems and more explosive interactions/misunderstandings with those i believe have a Ni+Fe combo than a Si+Fe combo, from what i can tell.

tbh i'm not sure i have enough hands-on experience with gamma Fi to make a judgment on it, but the mere idea of this sort of "ruthless Fi" can sound horrid to me. darth vader as an ISFj in my quadra? no thanks, and i can't say i relate although i suppose i can also come off as harshly judgmental in such a way.

I don't know if it's been asked in the thread, but you don't think you're gamma. I would say what quadra, but I would prefer to ask, what type do you think you are if not ILI, or some other gamma type?

delta seems like the next likely option, honestly.

[1981slater]

Darth Vader is an unhealthy version of ENTp logical subtype

[implied]

Darth Vader is an unhealthy version of ENTp logical subtype

again, according to expat this is an ISFj (someone correct me if i am wrong, again, i'm going from memory.)

[strrrng]

right, i can agree with that and don't think i haven't considered it. it's actually part of what has continually left me doubting gamma-dom. and that is what leaves me at "not gamma." i find the occasionally abrasive, overly-competitive beta Fe much more jarring and annoying than the sort of giddy and occasionally foolish/idiotic alpha Fe. both strike me as occasionally shallow, but still. i mean i expect people to have weaknesses and fuck up in life, so i suppose i am not bugged by foolish alpha Fe. (e.g. ESE brian wilson sort of fucking up his life for a while but subsequently pulling it back together is something i can respect, not something i criticize.) tbh i'm not sure i have enough hands-on experience with gamma Fi to make a judgment on it, but the mere idea of this sort of "ruthless Fi" can sound horrid to me. darth vader as an ISFj in my quadra? no thanks, and i can't say i relate although i suppose i can also come off as harshly judgmental in such a way.

Interesting. IME deltas just seem to see beta Fe as unnecessary; like, why the need to compete and all that (alphas see it as extra too, but seem to be more prone to try to "join the fun," to a degree). I guess if you can relate to the experiential style of alphas (Si/Ne), their Fe won't seem as irritating, cause you at least know where it's coming from. That's why gamma Fi feels better to me, because I know they're focusing on Ni themes, rather than 'random' Ne connections about people, etc. I don't know what the deal is with that "ruthless" stereotype, nor do I have a comment on darth vader, lol. Tbh it's the deltas who seem more "ruthless" to me overall, albeit masking it under an "open-minded" veil (scholastic system, hello). Just step out of line in the SiTe processes and watch what they do. Gammas have always seemed a bit more adaptable to me in their judgments, despite being primarily intrinsically focused. But expat did write those gamma descriptions... lol.

[implied]

Implied is my dual.

i always wonder what makes you think this and i am not horribly opposed to being your dual but wonder what makes you think we are "most psychologically compatible." i take it as a compliment at any rate. you still remind me of my brother haha.

[1981slater]

again, according to expat this is an ISFj (someone correct me if i am wrong, again, i'm going from memory.)

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Darth Vader is an unhealthy version of ENTp logical subtype

Maybe these two guys are ENTj. Notice the similarity in VI:

[FDG]

i always wonder what makes you think this and i am not horribly opposed to being your dual but wonder what makes you think we are "most psychologically compatible." i take it as a compliment at any rate. you still remind me of my brother haha.

I know very well you don't like this type of explanations (and I don't love them either, but I can't offer anything better as for now), but in many things you remind me of many girls I've gotten along with quite well (and I do think they were ISFj, but you're free to interpret it as you wish - no I don't think all ISFjs are neurotic crazy but I've met some that are neurotic crazy and often on psychology forums people talk about neurotic crazy ppl, so it's more likely to share own experience about the negative side) and/or have had good relationships with

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Interesting. IME deltas just seem to see beta Fe as unnecessary; like, why the need to compete and all that (alphas see it as extra too, but seem to be more prone to try to "join the fun," to a degree). I guess if you can relate to the experiential style of alphas (Si/Ne), their Fe won't seem as irritating, cause you at least know where it's coming from. That's why gamma Fi feels better to me, because I know they're focusing on Ni themes, rather than 'random' Ne connections about people, etc. I don't know what the deal is with that "ruthless" stereotype, nor do I have a comment on darth vader, lol. Tbh it's the deltas who seem more "ruthless" to me overall, albeit masking it under an "open-minded" veil (scholastic system, hello). Just step out of line in the SiTe processes and watch what they do. Gammas have always seemed a bit more adaptable to me in their judgments, despite being primarily intrinsically focused. But expat did write those gamma descriptions... lol.

Re perceiving Fe in other quadras, from my perspective...

FWIW.. I find Beta Fe overly dramatic, and alpha Fe to be too "light"

Except yourself and everyone Alpha/Beta on this forum; .... they rock!!!!!

[1981slater]

Maybe these two guys are ENTj. Notice the similarity in VI:

scary but true!

[implied]

Interesting. IME deltas just seem to see beta Fe as unnecessary; like, why the need to compete and all that (alphas see it as extra too, but seem to be more prone to try to "join the fun," to a degree). I guess if you can relate to the experiential style of alphas (Si/Ne), their Fe won't seem as irritating, cause you at least know where it's coming from.

to me it isn't so much that i relate with being "experiential" as much as i'm not bugged by happy/giddy people, or people who are calm like cracka. and with beta my experience goes more like, "why be such a fucking argumentative dipshit?" i rarely feel a need to run around "putting people in their place" which seems more like a ego thing to me, although neither am i just completely incapable of telling someone off (as i guess anyone on this forum can attest to.) it just seems like an annoyance when you have some INFp like crazedrat waiting for some SeTi person.

That's why gamma Fi feels better to me, because I know they're focusing on Ni themes, rather than 'random' Ne connections about people, etc. I don't know what the deal is with that "ruthless" stereotype, nor do I have a comment on darth vader, lol. Tbh it's the deltas who seem more "ruthless" to me overall, albeit masking it under an "open-minded" veil (scholastic system, hello).

i'm not sure where you're getting the delta/scholastic system thing. i would actually more expect a lot of delta STs not to be anti-schooling but to find it sort of secondary to achieving . i mean i would imagine them as not necessarily impressed with a ton of degrees.

[strrrng]

to me it isn't so much that i relate with being "experiential" as much as i'm not bugged by happy/giddy people, or people who are calm like cracka. and with beta my experience goes more like, "why be such a fucking argumentative dipshit?"

Yeah, that makes sense.

i rarely feel a need to run around "putting people in their place" which seems more like a ego thing to me, although neither am i just completely incapable of telling someone off (as i guess anyone on this forum can attest to.)

Interesting, cause I relate to that. Except that I have a strong desire to "put things in their place." (probably more SeTi values anyway). shrug. I thought the interaction between you and Ezra on stickam a week or two ago was funny—where you basically came in, got on cam, and said "who's playing that shitty music" or something... and then told him to turn it off, I think. Don't know if it's relevant here, lol.

it just seems like an annoyance when you have some INFp like crazedrat waiting for some SeTi person.

lol, I know what you mean. INFps tend to "let off" sometimes, to find that stabilizing force that will put them in their place.

i'm not sure where you're getting the delta/scholastic system thing. i would actually more expect a lot of delta STs not to be anti-schooling but to find it sort of secondary to achieving . i mean i would imagine them as not necessarily impressed with a ton of degrees.

I was thinking of the way the scholastic system is run. To me, it seems very SiTe. There is an ostensible context which things are supposed to develop through (Si) and certain procedures which should be followed (Te); also, the "favoritism" I have witnessed in schools seems to have remnants of an FiNe mindset, since that essentially makes judgments without creating any explicit rules or traits to base them off of. And the deviating from the decorum thing was sort of facetious, but I have seen some moralistic assholes throughout high school. I agree that they would see it as a means to goals, but deltas tend to be impressed by external credentials and stuff. Like, "this person is a doctor" or "he has this degree," seems to sort of go along with judging their actions' worth (Te) from the ostensible context (Si); whereas gammas don't seem as bent on having the "right" behaviors, procedures, etc. Not that betas don't have that status thing going; but it's , just more like, "this is who he is and how he interacts in the hierarchy." We don't really base it off of explicit processes, even though the structures and positions take on that sort of character.

[1981slater]

To implied and anyone not sure about her/his own type: I recommend you to watch videos of yourself when you were between ten and fifteen years old. I guess you can see yourself from a better perspective then and find out your Socionics type. It looks reading too much about Socionics mislead people when it comes to typing oneself!

[Gilly]

i have probably considered EIE as your type more seriously than you would ever believe. and probably more seriously than many users here have. although i can't say i'm fully convinced that some dominant isn't a better choice for you.

and really i think the likelihood of me finding an IEI/EIE that i perceive to be "healthy" is very slim

[implied]

To implied and anyone not sure about her/his own type: I recommend you to watch videos of yourself when you were between ten and fifteen years old. I guess you can see yourself from a better perspective then and find out your Socionics type. It looks reading too much about Socionics mislead people when it comes to typing oneself!

some nerdy NT or maybe a more bitchy ISTp post-puberty.

[strrrng]

To implied and anyone not sure about her/his own type: I recommend you to watch videos of yourself when you were between ten and fifteen years old. I guess you can see yourself from a better perspective then and find out your Socionics type. It looks reading too much about Socionics mislead people when it comes to typing oneself!

That's actually not a bad idea. People behaved much more naturally in childhood, and since they didn't have knowledge of socionics then, the behaviors would be more lucid.

@Gilly: you changed your signature because one person doubted your self-typing? lol. Just go back to ENTp.

[Gilly]

@Gilly: you changed your signature because one person doubted your self-typing? lol. Just go back to ENTp.

No, that's not the reason at all, actually. I've been thinking a lot lately. And we all know how things turn out when I start thinking...

[munenori2]

And we all know how things turn out when I start thinking...

God kills a kitten?

[Gilly]

God kills a kitten?

Sometimes a panda

[olduser]

i've known all along, but whereas i knew gilly was was EIE before everyone else, in this instance i cannot provide your type. sorry, and god bless you.

[Creepy-]

Implied, I don't know your type, but I do think that both SLI and ILI are reasonable possibilities. [Really helpful, huh? ]

Socionics makes a lot of generalizations. Maybe personality types can be compared to generic clothing sizes: a person might actually be right in the middle between a size S and a size M shirt... at that point his options are lose or gain a couple of pounds [change himself]; buy the shirt and have it tailored [ammend the system to better fit him]; or pick one and go with it until it doesn't work anymore, always being aware that the fit is a little off. i don't know which is the best option, but to an extent some - most? - people are probably doing one of those three things.

Also, I don't think Gammas are cold, fwiw

[implied]

Implied, I don't know your type, but I do think that both SLI and ILI are reasonable possibilities. [Really helpful, huh? ]

Socionics makes a lot of generalizations. Maybe personality types can be compared to generic clothing sizes: a person might actually be right in the middle between a size S and a size M shirt... at that point his options are lose or gain a couple of pounds [change himself]; buy the shirt and have it tailored [ammend the system to better fit him]; or pick one and go with it until it doesn't work anymore, always being aware that the fit is a little off. i don't know which is the best option, but to an extent some - most? - people are probably doing one of those three things.

Also, I don't think Gammas are cold, fwiw

i don't think socionics has bespoke tailoring or any such thing either hah. i'm not sure any system can describe someone 100% accurately, but the inaccuracies are basically what move me to creating threads like this.

it could easily be a matter of semantics and what is meant by "cold" or some such thing where i'm taking something far too literally. redbaron had a good point with me taking offense to being called "cold" or being in a "cold" quadra. with my generally limited introspection, i'd be surprised or shocked if someone said it.

[Park]

I see many Beta NFs as cold, too. This description of Clinton would be a great example of the type of 'cold' I'm talking about.

[jessica129]

Well, with a Fi HA, I think it's all too common for SLIs/ILIs to have very real feelings inside and having a nature of benevolence and overall good will though because of Fe PoLR, they might express this more by passively listening to other people's problems or offering something of benefit such as information, help, etc and thus they may still come off as cold but to the xLI who knows not how to naturally express themselves otherwise may be bewildered as to why outsiders feel intimidated by these sort of individuals. They might think they are nice people but a lack of Fe will still keep people distant from them. And I am talking about general behavior. Obviously the anti-Fe guise will falter away in cases of closer, more intimate contact.

I like this. I never understood why I got ripped a new one whenever I'd offer help to an overdramatic Beta. Makes sense.

[Park]

I like this. I never understood why I got ripped a new one whenever I'd offer help to an overdramatic Beta. Makes sense.

Yes.

[crazedrat]

if you're speaking about ENFj-Fes in particular, it's really because they have no problems to begin with and are making them up for attention. kind of like.. they want the fix it man, ISTj, to come in and fuck them. Really, by helping them you're just undermining their hidden agenda of wanting to be fucked by the fix it man

[implied]

I like this. I never understood why I got ripped a new one whenever I'd offer help to an overdramatic Beta. Makes sense.

now i understand why i get ripped a new one as well. ugh.

[Tom]

if you're speaking about ENFj-Fes in particular, it's really because they have no problems to begin with and are making them up for attention. kind of like.. they want the fix it man, ISTj, to come in and fuck them. Really, by helping them you're just undermining their hidden agenda of wanting to be fucked by the fix it man

^Winner.

[munenori2]

I clearly live under a rock with a random outlet and wi-fi internet connection, but while i am unfamiliar with the term, I'm guessing getting ripped a new one is a bad thing.

Having more than your quota of holes in your ass usually is.

[Brilliand]

I see many Beta NFs as cold, too. This description of Clinton would be a great example of the type of 'cold' I'm talking about.

Ah, so Clinton is EIE...

[Gilly]

if you're speaking about ENFj-Fes in particular, it's really because they have no problems to begin with and are making them up for attention. kind of like.. they want the fix it man, ISTj, to come in and fuck them. Really, by helping them you're just undermining their hidden agenda of wanting to be fucked by the fix it man

ROFL