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Thread: Fi or Fe slip?

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    Default Fi or Fe slip?

    Share your opinion on whether the following anecdote is most likely to have been said by a person with Fi PoLR or Fe PoLR?

    I was eating dinner with some friends last night. There were 2 pairs of couples there, in addition to me. After dinner we all sat around the table to look at old pictures. One of the couples has been together for about 4 years and has lived together almost that entire time. The other couple has just recently met and dated for just about a month. The female in the newer couple handed an older picture of her to her boyfriend. It was a picture of her, taken 8 years ago and she was wearing a nurse halloween costume and looked smokin' hot. When the boyfriend saw the pic, his eyes bulged and it was clear from his expression that he thought she looked HOT HOT HOT. So the guy proceeds to say to his girlfriend "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times." Then he turns to the other guy and says "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."

    I could tell the girl's feelings were a little hurt by this, but the boyfriend seemed completely oblivious to it. Knowing them both pretty well, I can tell you that there is strong attraction from both sides and that the guy thinks she is beautiful and hot and lets her know/shows her frequently.

    This just seemed like a total Fi or Fe slip on the guy's part. What do you think? Which does it sound like...an Fi or an Fe slip?

    FWIW, the woman in the older couple is SEE and she definitely noticed and immediately spoke up to say "She's always been beautiful and still is." LOL @ the fact that even after this, the boyfriend continued to be oblivious. The guy in the older couple is XSTj and I could tell he felt no emotion at the comment and frequently makes similar comments himself.

  2. #2
    Creepy-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Share your opinion on whether the following anecdote is most likely to have been said by a person with Fi PoLR or Fe PoLR?

    I was eating dinner with some friends last night. There were 2 pairs of couples there, in addition to me. After dinner we all sat around the table to look at old pictures. One of the couples has been together for about 4 years and has lived together almost that entire time. The other couple has just recently met and dated for just about a month. The female in the newer couple handed an older picture of her to her boyfriend. It was a picture of her, taken 8 years ago and she was wearing a nurse halloween costume and looked smokin' hot. When the boyfriend saw the pic, his eyes bulged and it was clear from his expression that he thought she looked HOT HOT HOT. So the guy proceeds to say to his girlfriend "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times." Then he turns to the other guy and says "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."

    I could tell the girl's feelings were a little hurt by this, but the boyfriend seemed completely oblivious to it. Knowing them both pretty well, I can tell you that there is strong attraction from both sides and that the guy thinks she is beautiful and hot and lets her know/shows her frequently.

    This just seemed like a total Fi or Fe slip on the guy's part. What do you think? Which does it sound like...an Fi or an Fe slip?

    FWIW, the woman in the older couple is SEE and she definitely noticed and immediately spoke up to say "She's always been beautiful and still is." LOL @ the fact that even after this, the boyfriend continued to be oblivious. The guy in the older couple is XSTj and I could tell he felt no emotion at the comment and frequently makes similar comments himself.
    That sounds like an Fi slip to me - not necessarily Fi-PoLR, unvalued Fi at least.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    It's the sort of thing a guy would laugh at and not a women..in most cases. Well, I'd wonder why a girl i'd started dating was showing me a picture of her with her ex like that. Maybe she is the on with the Fi PoLR lol.

    I don't think the comment is any function, I think it's just one of those things. Hmm, maybe someone else will have an analysis of it from a socionics pov.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's the sort of thing a guy would laugh at and not a women..in most cases. Well, I'd wonder why a girl i'd started dating was showing me a picture of her with her ex like that. Maybe she is the on with the Fi PoLR lol.

    I don't think the comment is any function, I think it's just one of those things. Hmm, maybe someone else will have an analysis of it from a socionics pov.
    Huh? The girl's ex wasn't in the pic. It was just a pic of the girl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    That sounds like an Fi slip to me - not necessarily Fi-PoLR, unvalued Fi at least.
    This is the way I was leaning also. Thanks.

    I'm pretty sure this guy is SLE, btw. I'm wondering how IEIs here would respond to such a comment from an SLE.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Huh? The girl's ex wasn't in the pic. It was just a pic of the girl.
    My bad, I thought it said a picture of her with her ex.

    I'd still wonder why she was showing him it, considering it was taken 8 years ago and she knew she looked good in it and maybe it was to receive praise? Was it to make him jealous, or to say, "I used to look good" or just showing him it or something else. lol, I over analyse things though.

    OK.. If it was me in that position (showing me the photo) it would probably make me want to have sex with her more. And on that thought I probably wouldn't have said anything at the dinner table

    Still not sure what function PoLR it would relate to (if any) as it would depend what was going on in his head (I mean, some people would come up with an idea that she was looking great and ended up sleeping with someone that night, maybe that would then make them jealous or something, which would make them say something like that so it wouldn't necessarily be an F PoLR if they were aware of what they were doing.. perhaps.)

    Edit: But if it's something that happens a lot, and he isn't aware of the impact, non-ego F would make sense. (I personally don't know if it's an F PoLR though, i've seen lots of role F types and PoLR F types do stuff like that a lot.)

    I suppose this is post is a long way for a short answer :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Still not sure what function PoLR it would relate to (if any) as it would depend what was going on in his head (I mean, some people would come up with an idea that she was looking great and ended up sleeping with someone that night, maybe that would then make them jealous or something, which would make them say something like that so it wouldn't necessarily be an F PoLR if they were aware of what they were doing.. perhaps.)
    I think that if you look at his reaction [or lack thereof] after he made the comment - he didn't seem to notice his gf's feelings, even after he was sort of scolded for it - his obliviousness is more telling than that he made the comment in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    This is the way I was leaning also. Thanks.

    I'm pretty sure this guy is SLE, btw. I'm wondering how IEIs here would respond to such a comment from an SLE.
    I have to say, a comment that like honestly would NOT bother me. I would laugh. Cause I mean, if I DID look hot in the pic, I'd be really flattered. Anyway, some women take too much offense at things like that. Do they have no confidence in their relationship?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    I think that if you look at his reaction [or lack thereof] after he made the comment - he didn't seem to notice his gf's feelings, even after he was sort of scolded for it - his obliviousness is more telling than that he made the comment in the first place.
    I put an edit in making a note if it's a consistent thing (like it was mentioned for the other bloke.) I don't think we can say with certainty from one event. But yeah I would have to agree it's certainly looks like non-ego F.

    And I do think guys have a different sense of humour that women in lots of circumstances. Probably plenty of F males who wouldn't have clicked to that as much as most girls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    My bad, I thought it said a picture of her with her ex.

    I'd still wonder why she was showing him it, considering it was taken 8 years ago and she knew she looked good in it and maybe it was to hear praise? Was it to make him jealous, or to say, "I used to look good" or just showing him it or something else. lol, I over analyse things though.

    OK.. If it was me in that position (showing me the photo) it would probably make me want to have sex with her more. And on that thought I probably wouldn't have said anything at the dinner table

    Still not sure what function PoLR it would relate to (if any) as it would depend what was going on in his head (I mean, some people would come up with an idea that she was looking great and ended up sleeping with someone that night, maybe that would then make them jealous or something, which would make them say something like that so it wouldn't necessarily be an F PoLR if they were aware of what they were doing.. perhaps.)
    Hmm interesting. Just to clarify...she didn't purposely dig out the pic to show it to him. That was just one pic among 100 others that we were all looking at. For no reason other than why people usually look at old pics. To laugh, reminisce, etc.

    By the way, this girl *is* currently beautiful and young and all that. It's not comparable to a 50 year old showing a picture of her on her 21st birthday or something. I'm actually pretty sure that if she were to put on that costume again now, she would look just as good. Maybe the guy's imagination wasn't that good though...to realize that without actually seeing it in front of him. Weak N?

    The jealousy theory is a clever one and I could see how that would be an option. However, in this case, I strongly doubt it given the fact that he had already seen pics of her looking good standing next to other guys. More suggestive pics, if you will. And he was direct about his reaction to that by giving her what I call a very "Se look". I really think he just doesn't make that type of ethical connection, not something as subtle as that and not unless more outwardly expressed. I'm sure that if she ever mentioned anything to him about it afterwards, he would've been like "huh? what are you talking about?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    This is the way I was leaning also. Thanks.

    I'm pretty sure this guy is SLE, btw. I'm wondering how IEIs here would respond to such a comment from an SLE.
    This particular issue is representative of why I generally disagree with dual theory in the case of IEI-SLE, especially. I've yet to come across an SLE with whom I'd be willing and able to overlook this kind of feeling obliviousness for long. It grates on my ethical sensibilities and just rubs me the wrong way.

    I'd be highly offended if anyone spoke that way about me, let alone a supposedly "significant" other.

    Moreover, I simply don't understand why I should (or would) be attracted to anyone who tends to devalue most things I identify strongly with. Perhaps in the shorter term, as a kind of "opposites attract" way, but I don't tend to overlook insensitivity or crudeness as an integral personality trait for long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I have to say, a comment that like honestly would NOT bother me. I would laugh. Cause I mean, if I DID look hot in the pic, I'd be really flattered. Anyway, some women take too much offense at things like that. Do they have no confidence in their relationship?
    To me, it wouldn't be about the relationship, it'd be about him being an insensitive ass. I personally have more than a few neurotic hangups about my physical appearance and someone calling attention to them in that insensitive manner (in front of OTHER people no less!!) would mortify me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I have to say, a comment that like honestly would NOT bother me. I would laugh. Cause I mean, if I DID look hot in the pic, I'd be really flattered. Anyway, some women take too much offense at things like that. Do they have no confidence in their relationship?
    I get what you're saying. I think the reason it bothered her was that he obviously doesn't find her *as* attractive now as she was in the pic, to the point of even going further to say that she is unrecognizable as the same person. Would knowing that not bother you?

    I have to say though, that knowing this guy, he would almost surely say that that is not what he meant by the comment at all. And I think he would truly mean it, although for the life of me I just don't get the reasoning behind that. It is obvious to me that is what such a comment would mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I put an edit in making a note if it's a consistent thing (like it was mentioned for the other bloke.) I don't think we can say with certainty from one event. But yeah I would have to agree it's certainly looks like non-ego F.

    And I do think guys have a different sense of humour that women in lots of circumstances. Probably plenty of F males who wouldn't have clicked to that as much as most girls.
    He consistently fails to make ethical connections, yes. He rarely means any harm by it. He just doesn't notice such things.

    BTW, he didn't intend for the comment to be a joke at all. He was dead serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    This particular issue is representative of why I generally disagree with dual theory in the case of IEI-SLE, especially. I've yet to come across an SLE with whom I'd be willing and able to overlook this kind of feeling obliviousness for long. It grates on my ethical sensibilities and just rubs me the wrong way.

    I'd be highly offended if anyone spoke that way about me, let alone a supposedly "significant" other.

    Moreover, I simply don't understand why I should (or would) be attracted to anyone who tends to devalue most things I identify strongly with. Perhaps in the shorter term, as a kind of "opposites attract" way, but I don't tend to overlook insensitivity or crudeness as an integral personality trait for long.
    I tend to relate to your feelings in response to his comment. I think it would make me feel unappreciated and devalued, which is what would hurt the most. Like I'm not the most beautiful and attractive creature in the world to him. Yeah yeah, I know this sounds stupid given that the girl in the pic would still be me, but still. And yes, I realize it's probably unrealistic to think I would be these things to someone. But idealism FTW! I do need to feel appreciated in this way by someone, even if I know it's a very subjective feeling. As long as I knew that I was the most beautiful person to *him*, that's all that would matter.

    I agree that this is one of the drawbacks to duality, but I guess there's no such thing as perfect. Although I have to say that if my friend brought this to his attention and how it made her feel, he would totally feel bad about it because he truly does care about her and is crazy about her. He would probably find a way to make it better, which is maybe how duality bounces back. She's told me she continues to be surprised by his ability to do this. To help her bounce back quicker than anyone else. She can tend to get stuck in a mood. She would probably need to throw out some serious Fe out there for him to pick up on it and react, but she's inclined to do so around him anyway. I get the feeling he holds back from reacting until he gets more and more Fe thrown at him. Like he's greedy for it. LOL. Oh, in case it wasn't obvious, I think she's IEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I have to say, a comment that like honestly would NOT bother me. I would laugh. Cause I mean, if I DID look hot in the pic, I'd be really flattered. Anyway, some women take too much offense at things like that. Do they have no confidence in their relationship?
    Ugh, really? I don't see it as having anything to do with their relationship, it's just him displaying how inconsiderate he is. It was a slight against her current appearance. If I were there I would have discreetly taken him aside later and explained how he came across to his girlfriend and told him to apologize, because... I do those sorts of things, lol.
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
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    I think you guys are just taking the comment too personally. I mean, he was off the cuff exclaiming how attractive she was in the picture, that's it! He went on and on because obviously she looked hot. He thought he was being nice. End of story. He wasn't trying to hurt her. And if she had any confidence in their relationship, and if she knew him at ALL, she'd know that and cut him some slack already. If it really hurt her, she could bring it up to him later in a nice way and maybe he would be more attentive to those sorts of things in the future. But it would do her some good if her self-image wasn't so tied to his offhand comments.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by calenwen View Post
    Ugh, really? I don't see it as having anything to do with their relationship, it's just him displaying how inconsiderate he is. It was a slight against her current appearance. If I were there I would have discreetly taken him aside later and explained how he came across to his girlfriend and told him to apologize, because... I do those sorts of things, lol.
    And he'd probably be embarrassed and feel really badly, just making everyone feel worse. I just think, why get hurt over something said when there were no bad intentions?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    When the boyfriend saw the pic, his eyes bulged and it was clear from his expression that he thought she looked HOT HOT HOT. So the guy proceeds to say to his girlfriend "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times." Then he turns to the other guy and says "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."
    Okay, maybe it's just me, but...

    "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times."

    "Wow, you looked so much hotter when you were younger. I wish you still looked like that."

    "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."

    "Because I find it hard to believe that she could ever have been that good-looking to begin with, I mean, look at her now!"
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    I'm guessing he was making an objective comparison with the photos and simply saying what he saw (with out thinking about feelings). So in that way, it's not really insensitive. It's just not seeing the implications of saying something like that... It might be recognized if there was enough disturbance in her behavior to indicate it hurt her feelings, at which point it would fall together in his mind... And if it really bothered her deeply eventually her feelings would be made known (via Fe), whether in that instance, or in reaction to a string of such instances later. Then I'm guessing he would try to fix it, in the way Sirena mentioned. Then she would know he didn't mean any of the things by it that she thought he might mean, that it was only saying what he saw, and there wouldn't be a reason to continue feeling hurt... It could all be forgotten and easily moved past. And I'm thinking over time he might become more aware of which things produce the "hurt Fe" responses, and navigate better increasingly over time. While she might start getting better at not being easily hurt by things that weren't meant in a hurtful way to begin with, and might start to feel more grounded and simply look at things as they are (without feeling hurt about them, instead seeing the humor in them). So I think that in the long run, it might work out nicely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I think you guys are just taking the comment too personally. I mean, he was off the cuff exclaiming how attractive she was in the picture, that's it! He went on and on because obviously she looked hot. He thought he was being nice. End of story. He wasn't trying to hurt her. And if she had any confidence in their relationship, and if she knew him at ALL, she'd know that and cut him some slack already. If it really hurt her, she could bring it up to him later in a nice way and maybe he would be more attentive to those sorts of things in the future. But it would do her some good if her self-image wasn't so tied to his offhand comments.
    I agree that it wasn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. I mean I don't think she went and cried herself to sleep or anything. And I think she realized that and even though she was hurt by it, was the reason she didn't do anything about it. It just made me curious to analyze it socionically.

    Eh, I just talked to her and she happened to mention some nice things that happened afterwards, so I'm sure she probably pouted for a while but he was able to charm her right back into loving him. Hehe. And I doubt she even brought it up at all. She would have if it had continued to bother her, trust me. Knowing her, she was probably pretty hurt for about 30 minutes and that was it. Strong, short-lived emotions. No telling if any mention of it would trigger it again though. Probably so. Eh, he seems to show her how important she is to him so constantly that she can't help but not let one thing like that bother her for long.

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    this thread and example sounds more like an fi valuer's views, and not really the actions of the participants. i tried to choose, but i think i've seen both weak Fi and weak Fe people say stuff like that... maybe more of an Fe slip, but not sure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by calenwen View Post
    Okay, maybe it's just me, but...

    "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times."

    "Wow, you looked so much hotter when you were younger. I wish you still looked like that."

    "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."

    "Because I find it hard to believe that she could ever have been that good-looking to begin with, I mean, look at her now!"
    This was my initial reaction to his comment as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I'm guessing he was making an objective comparison with the photos and simply saying what he saw (with out thinking about feelings). So in that way, it's not really insensitive. It's just not seeing the implications of saying something like that... It might be recognized if there was enough disturbance in her behavior to indicate it hurt her feelings, at which point it would fall together in his mind... And if it really bothered her deeply eventually her feelings would be made known (via Fe), whether in that instance, or in reaction to a string of such instances later. Then I'm guessing he would try to fix it, in the way Sirena mentioned. Then she would know he didn't mean any of the things by it that she thought he might mean, that it was only saying what he saw, and there wouldn't be a reason to continue feeling hurt... It could all be forgotten and easily moved past. And I'm thinking over time he might become more aware of which things produce the "hurt Fe" responses, and navigate better increasingly over time. While she might start getting better at not being easily hurt by things that weren't meant in a hurtful way to begin with, and might start to feel more grounded and simply look at things as they are (without feeling hurt about them, instead seeing the humor in them). So I think that in the long run, it might work out nicely.
    I think you nailed it!!! That's exactly on point, imo.

    I do think he was just making a logical connection. God knows it's hard/impossible for me to understand how someone even does this, given my weak weak logic. But that's just more reason to realize how hard it must be for him to see things the way her and I do and how not natural it is for him to make ethical/feeling connections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    this thread and example sounds more like an fi valuer's views, and not really the actions of the participants. i tried to choose, but i think i've seen both weak Fi and weak Fe people say stuff like that... maybe more of an Fe slip, but not sure!
    What do you mean? I tried to give as much of an unbiased account as possible. How do you think my account reflects Fi valuing? Curious.

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    yeah, actually i think it has to do with Fe but that the relationship aspect would make that a big aspect too, of what the guy is "oblivious" to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I think you guys are just taking the comment too personally. I mean, he was off the cuff exclaiming how attractive she was in the picture, that's it! He went on and on because obviously she looked hot. He thought he was being nice. End of story. He wasn't trying to hurt her. And if she had any confidence in their relationship, and if she knew him at ALL, she'd know that and cut him some slack already. If it really hurt her, she could bring it up to him later in a nice way and maybe he would be more attentive to those sorts of things in the future.
    +1
    But it would do her some good if her self-image wasn't so tied to his offhand comments.
    +1 again.

    Um.. I didn't want to say this, but taking a great offence to such is imo, a sign of insecurity. We all get older and change and stuff, it's life. Embrace it I say. I think you're spot on.

    For me, if someone was that highly strung to (continuously) take offence so easily at such innocuous stuff that I said where I didn't even mean any offence, i'd maybe think about ending the relationship myself. I don't see how that sort of hair pulling is fun, or how it would be healthy for a relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    What do you mean? I tried to give as much of an unbiased account as possible. How do you think my account reflects Fi valuing? Curious.
    oh, im saying that the guy is weak f, and the thread/question is kind of about, what kind of person would do this, a weak fi or weak fe? and i think that the problem is a problem with the "how could he not know why its weird to do that to his girlfriend?" which I think is an Fi concern ime with the Fi people in my life. But the actual act I've seen both weak Fe and weak Fi do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    oh, im saying that the guy is weak f, and the thread/question is kind of about, what kind of person would do this, a weak fi or weak fe? and i think that the problem is a problem with the "how could he not know why its weird to do that to his girlfriend?" which I think is an Fi concern ime with the Fi people in my life. But the actual act I've seen both weak Fe and weak Fi do.
    Oh ok, I get what you mean now. I definitely see how my question would be one that would most likely interest an F type, though I can't rule out Fe ego types in this since they'd also be strong in Fi. Also, my personal motive was to confirm his type, to myself. I've been "looking out" for PoLR signs in him and that seemed like a good indicator, but as usual, I wasn't sure. Like I said, I know him well enough to know how he feels about her and know her well enough to know how that comment made her feel, so I wasn't asking about that. But I did find it interesting to comment on this once the discussion went in that direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    +1 +1 again.

    Um.. I didn't want to say this, but taking a great offence to such is imo, a sign of insecurity. We all get older and change and stuff, it's life. Embrace it I say. I think you're spot on.

    For me, if someone was that highly strung to (continuously) take offence so easily at such innocuous stuff that I said where I didn't even mean any offence, i'd maybe think about ending the relationship myself. I don't see how that sort of hair pulling is fun, or how it would be healthy for a relationship.
    Really? You would end the relationship with someone you really cared about instead of trying to understand this person's sensitivities? I wonder what this relates to, socionically, if anything. I know this particularly SLE is not bothered by this about her. I think he sees it as a challenge and would find the relationship boring otherwise. I think he's intrigued by her imagination and doesn't know where half the things like this come from half the time. Sometimes he even triggers it, purposely. The Fe is so obvious between these 2. It's fascinating. Anyway, I'm sure he wouldn't love her as much as he does if she weren't able to make him feel this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Really? You would end the relationship with someone you really cared about instead of trying to understand this person's sensitivities? I wonder what this relates to, socionically, if anything. I know this particularly SLE is not bothered by this about her. I think he sees it as a challenge and would find the relationship boring otherwise. I think he's intrigued by her imagination and doesn't know where half the things like this come from half the time. Sometimes he even triggers it, purposely. The Fe is so obvious between these 2. It's fascinating. Anyway, I'm sure he wouldn't love her as much as he does if she weren't able to make him feel this way.
    Well, I suppose this is getting off tangent from your initial post, it wasn't totally related to the couples relationship per se. I was really just giving my viewpoint on what was said as the thread developed.

    So on that, if someone were to continuously take offence at my occasional F slip ups like it's been suggested then I would consider ending it. In a duality set up, I couldn't imagine myself berating someone for their weak T.

    I don't think it says much about 'duality.' To me it just suggests insecurity and stuff in the situation that was discussed.

    I'm not sure how duality would cover someone putting too much emphasis on their own self image coming from how they look. (Not saying the girl in this couple definately does, like I said, anyway the thread seems to have moved on somewhat.) But then, in this now possibly hypothetical example, if she does, and he also puts a lot of emphasis on relating his own self image to how he looks, then they have duality as well as something in common outside socionics. This way it's all good. Personally i'm not as image focused to take offense at comments like he made, so i'd be better off with a dual who didn't attach lots of their self worth to their looks also.

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    I think women and men have different areas of sensitivity about what's fair game for a joke. If a woman said, "Oh, Robert hasn't gotten me off in bed in 10 years.." in front of a group, I'm guessing he'd be pissed. Or perhaps made a comment about his salary... Appearance is not a typical area of sensitivity for guys. (Socionics aside, and obviously I'm generalizing a bit)

    (That was in response to Cy's post about insecurity)
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I would just like to say that I've also received similar comments (and not necessarily of my looks) of the "I didn't think about how this would make you feel" nature from both PoLR types, ILE and SLE. when I really like the person, I find that it's very easy for me to blow off the comments at the time they are said, but later, sometimes I can obsess and wonder, "what did they really mean?" and worry and such...
    I do this too. And then I find myself overanalyzing everything and wishing I had felt what I'm now feeling at the time, so that I could've had the choice to do something about it because now it's like "well, what do I do about it now?" And now I feel like I have to do something about it or I'll go crazy. Express my feelings, somehow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    I think women and men have different areas of sensitivity about what's fair game for a joke. If a woman said, "Oh, Robert hasn't gotten me off in bed in 10 years.." in front of a group, I'm guessing he'd be pissed. Or perhaps made a comment about his salary... Appearance is not a typical area of sensitivity for guys. (Socionics aside, and obviously I'm generalizing a bit)

    (That was in response to Cy's post about insecurity)
    I agree here. I think it's funny when someone says to me "you're too sensitive" about something just because they aren't particularly sensitive about it themselves. Males, though are VERY sensitive about some things that I think it ridiculous to be sensitive about, but I do tend to consider most things before I say them. Once things have been said, it's impossible for them to be unheard.

    I realize I can be pretty unyielding and sensitive myself, and I do forgive people for misstatements or things said in argument, but I never forget. I'll definitely be less likely to be vulnerable with them in the future. Those things are red flags. I'm also rather an emotional volcano when I feel hurt. Everyone in a 50-ft radius knows when I'm upset. I broadcast .

    Also, I'd rather start out with someone who's pretty considerate than have to constantly "teach" someone who's always a bit oblivious.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    And he'd probably be embarrassed and feel really badly, just making everyone feel worse. I just think, why get hurt over something said when there were no bad intentions?
    I don't really think in situations like that. I feel first, think later. Feelings aren't always reasonable or rational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Really? You would end the relationship with someone you really cared about instead of trying to understand this person's sensitivities? I wonder what this relates to, socionically, if anything. I know this particularly SLE is not bothered by this about her. I think he sees it as a challenge and would find the relationship boring otherwise. I think he's intrigued by her imagination and doesn't know where half the things like this come from half the time. Sometimes he even triggers it, purposely. The Fe is so obvious between these 2. It's fascinating. Anyway, I'm sure he wouldn't love her as much as he does if she weren't able to make him feel this way.
    I think in some ways, someone has to care, to be able to care again. And the more you care, the more you keep on caring.

    So the more people manage to take offence, and you care, the stronger the bond is created... whereas if they just split off and don't take offence to anything they may as well be dead. No loss to them. It feels the same!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    I think in some ways, someone has to care, to be able to care again. And the more you care, the more you keep on caring.

    So the more people manage to take offence, and you care, the stronger the bond is created... whereas if they just split off and don't take offence to anything they may as well be dead. No loss to them. It feels the same!
    Here we see Aggressor vs Infantile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I would just like to say that I've also received similar comments (and not necessarily of my looks) of the "I didn't think about how this would make you feel" nature from both PoLR types, ILE and SLE. when I really like the person, I find that it's very easy for me to blow off the comments at the time they are said, but later, sometimes I can obsess and wonder, "what did they really mean?" and worry and such...
    I actually get something like that a bit at times too.

    When I was young, I often used to get told that I didn't care about other peoples feelings. But y'know what, a lot of people "suggested" I just pass it off, and that it's about them, and not me. You can only care about a limited amount of people etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    Here we see Aggressor vs Infantile.
    I don't get yah. Go on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    I think in some ways, someone has to care, to be able to care again. And the more you care, the more you keep on caring.

    So the more people manage to take offence, and you care, the stronger the bond is created... whereas if they just split off and don't take offence to anything they may as well be dead. No loss to them. It feels the same!
    Hmmm this is how I feel also. Sometimes (a lot of times?) I need to feel like the other person cares that I took offense. Like in some way my taking offense obviously means I care and it is a good way to know if they care also.

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    I think this is undervalued/weak Fi yes. I would never make that mistake, its just the kind of thing im hyper sensitive to. The ESFp picked up on it straight away which im not suprised. When i hear people say things like that, its like i can feel the air tearing a bit (Fi rule broken) alarm bells!!! lol

    My ISTj dad constantly says things like this to my ISFj mum, so she talks to me about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    I don't get yah. Go on.
    Well, there are two "families" of romance styles: The / and /.

    The first is Aggressor/Victim. Due to Agressor ego , they value being in charge (which is what you were basically saying with "whereas if they just split off and don't take offence to anything they may as well be dead" which to me says "if you don't value power, what the hell's the point?"), while Victim has super-id (wiki link)

    Infantile/Caregiver on the other hand, share subdued . As such, direct from the wiki, '"power" is seen as unimportant in such matters'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I think most PoLR types just don't give a shit, it's not obliviousness or anything like that.
    Yep, thats the idea of an Fi polr lol. Not caring about other peoples feelings can get in the way of making friends though. Dont forget it
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