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Thread: Se and getting lost

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    Haikus Sirena's Avatar
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    Default Se and getting lost

    Is being bad with directions indicative of weak Se?? Like taking a while to learn how to get somewhere without getting lost. Or forgetting exactly how to get somewhere after not having been there in a while.

    Discuss.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    imo, that's outwith the realm of socionics. You should look for your an answer or tips to remember where your going elsewhere than socionics (don't get lost while looking though )

    Eh, i'm sure i've read somewhere that men and women process bearing and location differently. I could elaborate but you are probably best to read up about that, or just read up about improving your sense of direction if you've got problems getting lost .. or.. speak to someone you know with a good sense of direction and ask them how they do it.

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    Haikus Sirena's Avatar
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    Thanks Cy. Yeah, I tend to think this is not related to socionics directly. However, I'm trying to figure out if some elements of it might be.

    This question actually pertains to a guy I know, not myself. I am pretty bad at this also, admittedly, but he is even worse than me.

    I should note that this "inability" of his is of no huge concern to him and rather amuses him. I think he sort of sees it as an opportunity to explore and it does in no way limit him or prevent him from going places, unless he knows he has to get to work from an unfamiliar location, for instance. Sometimes he'll just be like "get in the car" and he'll just start driving with no real idea how to get to "that bar I went to once that was really cool" but he'll just drive around the whole town if he has to, enjoying the process all the while. He doesn't seem bothered by people pointing out the fact that he sucks at it either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    imo, that's outwith the realm of socionics. You should look for your an answer or tips to remember where your going elsewhere than socionics (don't get lost while looking though )

    Eh, i'm sure i've read somewhere that men and women process bearing and location differently. I could elaborate but you are probably best to read up about that, or just read up about improving your sense of direction if you've got problems getting lost .. or.. speak to someone you know with a good sense of direction and ask them how they do it.
    i've read something on car navigation systems: men seem to prefer maps with North pointing up (map stays fixed on screen), whereas women prefer the direction they're heading in pointing up (the map rotates while driving). This also proves women see themselves as center of the world
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    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostage_Child View Post
    Well, it could be a fluke but I detect a direct socionics correlation, but for instance, and ILE I know has piss poor direction and constantly gets lost IRL and on online games and it's very frustrating to me. It may not sound like much, but hanging around him, I really think it has a lot to do with his information metabolism than anything.
    As the information aspect carries information of spatial location, I can see how ego would carry a certain numbness to where things are "in the real world".

    I totally agree with the ILE comment too, I need to have the map open 80% of the time in WoW, or just rely on having been through the same drill 16 billion times before. It's also inherently more interesting to randomly get lost (though MMOs in general have drilled me to tap moreso than ).

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    I'm always a little apprehensive about having to drive somewhere I've never been before, but once I've been there once maybe twice I always remember how to get there and back.

    Also, I hate when people give me directions like 'head north, then after fifteen or so miles get on I-69 heading west...". I much prefer directions relativized to the point of view of someone actually traveling the path "You're heading down this street, you'll want to take a right, go a few blocks and take a left." I can visualize that.
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    we had a thread about this awhile back but I'm not going to look it up.

    here's the thing with me. I'm really bad at knowing north, south, east, west and just ok with reading maps (actually I'm good with maps). But if I'm somewhere I've been before, even just once, I can often follow my nose. There's a certain feeling about locations that I recognize. I don't think it's anything as specific as landmarks and I certainly don't remember street names very well. I dunno. It's just this odd feeling that "I've been here before. Yes, this seems right."
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    Eh, as I said before, I don't know. I don't think I have in my ego block, but I'm really good at this stuff. Conversely, I know people that have some problems with it (and some too, but also some other ENTjs - not type related, then).
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Also, I hate when people give me directions like 'head north, then after fifteen or so miles get on I-69 heading west...". I much prefer directions relativized to the point of view of someone actually traveling the path "You're heading down this street, you'll want to take a right, go a few blocks and take a left." I can visualize that.
    Oh god yes. I absolutely CANNOT follow directions like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    we had a thread about this awhile back but I'm not going to look it up.

    here's the thing with me. I'm really bad at knowing north, south, east, west and just ok with reading maps (actually I'm good with maps). But if I'm somewhere I've been before, even just once, I can often follow my nose. There's a certain feeling about locations that I recognize. I don't think it's anything as specific as landmarks and I certainly don't remember street names very well. I dunno. It's just this odd feeling that "I've been here before. Yes, this seems right."
    I'm horrible with maps and I'm worse at directions than you, from what you say here, but I'm totally familiar with the odd feeling you describe.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    It's Visual-Spatial intelligence and it is not related to socionics. I'm Ne dominant (and Visual-Spatial dominant) and never have trouble finding locations in unknown places. I've got an ILE friend who I believe is Linguistic dominant and always gets lost.
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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    The hippocampus is the area of the brain involved in navigation, in humans as well as in other animals interestingly, like homing pidgeons. Those who spend more time having to know where they are going and having to get around have been found to have their hippocampus increase in size the longer they do it.

    It's something anyone can get good at, and doesn't have to be related to visual spatial ability of IQ tests (which I think mikemex was getting at) or as I earlier said, soseeonicks.

    What is even more interesting I think is that it shows the brain can adapt even in adult humans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's something anyone can get good at, and doesn't have to be related to visual spatial ability of IQ tests (which I think mikemex was getting at) or as I earlier said, soseeonicks.
    I do think, though, that some people are naturally better at it than others. I've got a friend that cycles as much as me (so, we spend approx the same amount of time thinking about how to reach places), yet I am much better at it than him - just to name one example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    It's Visual-Spatial intelligence and it is not related to socionics. I'm Ne dominant (and Visual-Spatial dominant) and never have trouble finding locations in unknown places. I've got an ILE friend who I believe is Linguistic dominant and always gets lost.
    I know one ILE geography professor who is very good at it(Visual-Spatial-Int.). He competes in orienteering regularly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The hippocampus is the area of the brain involved in navigation, in humans as well as in other animals interestingly, like homing pidgeons. Those who spend more time having to know where they are going and having to get around have been found to have their hippocampus increase in size the longer they do it.
    I'm a bit skeptical. This would imply that people who travel constantly are less likely to get schizophrenia (a diminishing hippocampus being one of the symptoms, unless I'm confusing it with another disease). It could be true and would bring a benefit to living a more nomadic lifestyle, but it sounds downright strange.

    On the subject, I would think there would be a correlations, but have found that there is no correlation in my experiences. My LSE mother cannot get around anywhere, always needs a map, and instructions on where to go, preferably in both written and vocal forms, even though she has driven that route once or twice a week for a year. She has expressed surprise that I can form mental maps in my head and follow them.
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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle View Post
    I'm a bit skeptical. This would imply that people who travel constantly are less likely to get schizophrenia (a diminishing hippocampus being one of the symptoms, unless I'm confusing it with another disease). It could be true and would bring a benefit to living a more nomadic lifestyle, but it sounds downright strange.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/677048.stm

    As to schizophrenia, I don't know, but as far as i'm aware it's generally recommended to keep the mind active to help stave it off. I suppose even with an efficient hippocampus, that still won't stop it malfunctioning for some degenerative reason outside of using it, but if it's in better shape to start with, then it would take longer before detrimental effects of it becoming impaired would reach the stage of causing a noticable disability, that is, it would take longer for it to reach the stage where it causes real problems.

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    I travel alot. I'm very bad at directions unless they are asociated to certain events, people. When I tried orienteering for some time I did improve at it, just as everything fallen back after I lost interest in that sport .
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  18. #18
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I do think, though, that some people are naturally better at it than others. I've got a friend that cycles as much as me (so, we spend approx the same amount of time thinking about how to reach places), yet I am much better at it than him - just to name one example.
    Yeah, when I go out cycling with my INFj friend, he tends to know where we are going, and know the general geography better. But I think the reason for that is he likes to be more organised in general. When we are doing stuff even outside cycling he likes to have a better idea of what's going on in terms of a schedule etc, i'm more go with the flow, so in a way it encourages lazyness in me because I know he will do the thinking more in terms of this (he seems to prefer it actually) where as my other friend that I cycle with is pretty bad at organising stuff and cycling routes, so when I go on a cycle with him, it's me who does the thinking and the bearing. If I left it to him, we'd end up in a ditch somewhere in the pitch black probably lol.

    Maybe people wanting to be more organised aside, it's like many other skills. They can be improved, but some people will naturally be able to develop the skill better than others, like playing a musical instrument, fitness ability etc.

    I haven't really seen a correlation with type personally, and i'm not sure how type would affect it given other factors involved like this and my other post, but yeah maybes it does and I just haven't spotted it...

    Of course maybe I could type black cab drivers to see if they are all the same type or related ego function, but that would cost too much money. On a short recollection, i've had taxi drivers of S and N ego types.
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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    It also depends on how instructions are given. The easiest way for me is to look at a map, find a point of reference and direction and work my way from there (I usually don't get disoriented by turnings and the like).

    The most difficult way for me is to listen to oral instructions by the phone, like "go two blocks south, turn left, go three blocks, turn right...". I get lost almost immediately because I'm really bad at processing sequential information. I simply can't remember what they are saying to me.

    In such situation I just listen to one command, execute it and call again, often up to 10 times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    In such situation I just listen to one command, execute it and call again, often up to 10 times.
    That is hilarious.
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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    The people I know with the best sense of direction, and almost never get lost are LSE and ESE - so Si creative.
    makes sense. My ESE does occasionally get lost when he tries to figure out short-cuts.
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    .

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    Maybe. My sense of direction improves greatly by having a birds-eye mindview of where I'm headed, and can map the route in my own head first.

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    i am "Se" leading according to u people and ill tell u im terrible with directions. w/o a landmark i will get lost

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    The only time I've gotten lost was when Bee was sitting in the back of the car reading a book while supposedly being our navigator. That day went... not so well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    That is hilarious.
    And annoying to some people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    And annoying to some people.
    I'm sure.

    I love the quote from Harriet the Spy in your sig. I'm reading that book to my girls before bed for the second time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    I'm always a little apprehensive about having to drive somewhere I've never been before, but once I've been there once maybe twice I always remember how to get there and back.

    Also, I hate when people give me directions like 'head north, then after fifteen or so miles get on I-69 heading west...". I much prefer directions relativized to the point of view of someone actually traveling the path "You're heading down this street, you'll want to take a right, go a few blocks and take a left." I can visualize that.
    Me too exactly. If I have to look at a map and I know the streets, then I'll just visualise travelling down the streets .. "oh, ok - turn left at that billboard" .. then once I've travelled there in my head, I feel like I've been there and don't have to look at the map again. (c: If I don't know the area, I just memorise left, right, right, w/e .. because I can't keep the picture of the map in my head. Most of the time, if I'm going someplace that I have even the vaguest idea re the location, I'll prefer to just have fun finding it rather than looking it up. I rather like being "lost" because it's a rare occasion and it can be rectified in a second. :-p May as well enjoy it.
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  30. #30
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Hmmmm... I thought this was metaphorically speaking.

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