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Thread: Seasonless = Timeless?

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    Default Seasonless = Timeless?

    I was talking w a coworker today, and we were discussing where we’d like to live if we moved. I said that for me, it’d need to be some place where it was warm and joked that my only real options in the USA are further South or out West, and I wondered aloud about Florida. She said she would never move to Florida bc she’s known too many people who went there and "got trapped." I had no idea what she was talking about, so she explained...

    Apparently bc Florida doesn’t experience the four seasons, people lose track of time and end up spending many more years there than they intended to, without realizing just how much time has passed.

    I'd never given this any thought before. For me, I guess I do keep track of time by the seasons, or am reminded of time passing by the changing seasons. Also, a lot of memories are triggered by certain times of year... I wonder how that might be different in a place w no seasons. Anyway, I’m curious about what people will think of that, and about whether it might be related to type in some way.

    ETA: She, the coworker, is a definite ILI, so I was surprised when she said this. Maybe I shouldn't have been. Anyway, I found it interesting.
    Last edited by female; 01-22-2009 at 09:56 PM.

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    or maybe people who go to florida do so to relax, or want to take breaks and have trouble deciding or taking action, etc.

    Sure, ok. Kind of like when i got a speeding ticket on a long stretch oh highway.. stretches of same caused me to zone out and forget time among other things. Too many tickets

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    time warp kind of things kind of bother me, i remember seeing Speedracer reruns at like 3-5 am as a teenager and feeling freaked by that. old 40s memorabilia or artifacts creep me out too.. hobby stores. thats some scary shit. kinda kidding, but time warp kinda weirds me out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    Apparently bc Florida doesn’t experience the four seasons, people lose track of time and end up spending many more years there than they intended to, without realizing just how much time has passed.

    I'd never given this any thought before. For me, I guess I do keep track of time by the seasons, or am reminded of time passing by the changing seasons. Also, a lot of memories are triggered by certain times of year... I wonder how that might be different in a place w no seasons. Anyway, I’m curious about what people will think of that, and about whether it might be related to type in some way.

    ETA: She, the coworker, is a definite ILI, so I was surprised when she said this. Interesting.
    oh my gosh, I never thought of that before! how funny. I think I would hate not having any seasons. I'd like to hear what jimbean thinks about that (since I know he's in Florida).
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  5. #5
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    Yeah, it was weird to me too, but in a thought-provoking way. The thought did cross my mind that people might just using it as an excuse - like, The reason I haven't done anything w my life is that I didn't realize ten years had passed already because there were no season changes to alert me! But then, I've never lived someplace without seasons, so I don't think it's my place to make that judgement.

    I wonder to what extent different people do measure time by external factors, seasonal or otherwise, especially as I don't ever really think about time; I feel like I'm pretty much always in the here/now, unless I'm consciously trying to plan something [which plan I'll inevitably abandon, haha].

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    I lose track of a *lot* of time, but I don't know if it has anything to do with the similarity of the seasons... I think it has to do with work Or, more precisely, how much is on my mind. I get wrapped up thinking about past events or future things or things I should be doing, and don't realize how much time has passed.

    Strangely, some events of several years ago really seem like they were yesterday. I think this is why losing time weirds me out so much. I think of the number of years it's been, and it just doesn't seem like it should add up. It gets worse when I only see someone rarely. I forget that their life is progressing and then I see them again, they've gained 20 pounds, or their hair has turned gray, and it freaks me out.
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    So florida is like Rivendell?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    So florida is like Rivendell?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    To be honest, I think it has more to do with what a person typically uses to demarcate general forms of passage in time. For instance, as I've grown, I've gone from using schools periods, to semesters, and have learnt to use big events that generally fall around particular time periods(New Years and Independence Day parades) to represent the passage in time. Of course, living in a place that has four very distinct seasons such as Philadelphia, I do use the seasons as well, but they effect me more in an anticipatory manner, to make me realize that certain events or even periods of time(school, and work since my job is seasonal) are about to come.

    Perhaps I would be affected negatively at first in some fashion if I were to live in an area that was relatively seasonless, but I would guess that I would pretty easily develop new means of keeping track of things, as there is nothing very specific about seasons that makes them irreplaceable in terms of keeping track of larger periods of time. For example, I'd probably learn to use the things I do now in a much greater respect, paying more attention to holidays and general times of the years that are significant to me in order to deal with the whatever disorientation I have to endure if I were to live in a seasonless area.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

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    What I don't like about Florida is the constant high percentage of water vapor i.e humidity in the air. It really drains your energy and makes you move and function slower in general. Out of all the places I've lived in, Florida has been the hardest to adapt to in terms of climate and seasonal change. Temperatures aren't that extreme or high really, and you can see that if you compare the numbers with other places, but high levels of humidity and heavy summer rains make for a truly unique experience. Even when it gets colder it still tends to remain relatively wet, thus you only feel a mild change and don't feel the cold the way you would in a drier place with the same temperatures... I can't say I 've had any issues with keeping track of time though, weather has never been a significant factor for that. My activities, schedules, routine, mental and emotional states etc are the things that dictate my sense of time. Now, of course, weather can be an influential factor here, at least to a certain degree I suppose, but it definitely doesn't make a notable change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    What I don't like about Florida is the constant high percentage of water vapor i.e humidity in the air. It really drains your energy and makes you move and function slower in general. Out of all the places I've lived in, Florida has been the hardest to adapt to in terms of climate and seasonal change. Temperatures aren't that extreme or high really, and you can see that if you compare the numbers with other places, but high levels of humidity and heavy summer rains make for a truly unique experience. Even when it gets colder it still tends to remain relatively wet, thus you only feel a mild change and don't feel the cold the way you would in a drier place with the same temperatures... I can't say I 've had any issues with keeping track of time though, weather has never been a significant factor for that. My activities, schedules, routine, mental and emotional states etc are the things that dictate my sense of time. Now, of course, weather can be an influential factor here, at least to a certain degree I suppose, but it definitely doesn't make a notable change.
    Houston's climate is classified as humid subtropical (Cfa in Köppen climate classification system). Spring supercell thunderstorms sometimes bring tornados to the area. Prevailing winds are from the south and southeast during most of the year, bringing heat across the continent from the deserts of Mexico and moisture from the Gulf of Mexico.[42]

    During the summer months, it is common for the temperature to reach over 90 °F (32 °C), with an average of 99 days per year above 90 °F (32 °C).[43][44] However, the humidity results in a heat index higher than the actual temperature. Summer mornings average over 90 percent relative humidity and approximately 60 percent in the afternoon.[45] Winds are often light in the summer and offer little relief, except near the immediate coast.[46] To cope with the heat, people use air conditioning in nearly every vehicle and building in the city; in fact, in 1980 Houston was described as the "most air-conditioned place on earth".[47] Scattered afternoon thunderstorms are common in the summer. The hottest temperature ever recorded in Houston was 109 °F (43 °C) on September 4, 2000.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston,_Texas

    Trust me, it's probably just as bad in south Florida as it is on the gulf coast of Texas.
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    I personally wouldn't care at all about not noticing how much time as passed, as long as I could go to the beach everyday during that time
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I personally wouldn't care at all about not noticing how much time as passed, as long as I could go to the beach everyday during that time
    When I lived near Cocoa Beach, FL, I spent a few periods of time going to the beach every single day. And I miss that. There's something both energizing and soothing about having the ocean nearby.

    I noticed the seasons when I lived in Florida. You still have to wear a jacket in the winter, although I was below the "freeze line" which is at about Daytona (it hardly ever gets below freezing South of the "freeze line"). And in the summer, you try to not plan to do anything that involves going outside during the hottest hours of the day, because the bright sun and high humidity will just wilt you. Fall is when summer gets less intense, and spring is when it's warm enough to do all your beach stuff without melting.

    I think people can lose track of time for any reason. We get ourselves into a habit and go into sleepwalking mode. Maybe some people dwell because starker differences between seasons necessitates different behaviors?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    There's something both energizing and soothing about having the ocean nearby.
    ^ the truth. But I'd gladly give that up for less humidity. Now, ocean + dry(er) climate = paradise.

    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    And in the summer, you try to not plan to do anything that involves going outside during the hottest hours of the day, because the bright sun and high humidity will just wilt you.
    The part I hate.

    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    I think people can lose track of time for any reason. We get ourselves into a habit and go into sleepwalking mode.
    QFT.

    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    Maybe some people dwell because starker differences between seasons necessitates different behaviors?
    Hmm, interesting thought, but I wouldn't say so, at least not for me.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    I was talking w a coworker today, and we were discussing where we’d like to live if we moved. I said that for me, it’d need to be some place where it was warm and joked that my only real options in the USA are further South or out West, and I wondered aloud about Florida. She said she would never move to Florida bc she’s known too many people who went there and "got trapped." I had no idea what she was talking about, so she explained...

    Apparently bc Florida doesn’t experience the four seasons, people lose track of time and end up spending many more years there than they intended to, without realizing just how much time has passed.

    ...
    That's strange. I didn't realize retirees took their retreats in phases, e.g. "For the first ten years of retirement, I'll live in the Florida. Then, if the ol` ticker's whacking away, we'll head down to Mexico. And if the water doesn't do me in, down towards Peru ... I'll get me a llama!!"

    Perhaps the aging population which moves to Florida subconsciously finds the illusory nonseasonal, "suspension of time" refreshing.

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    Hey astral, glad to see you back.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho
    I think people can lose track of time for any reason. We get ourselves into a habit and go into sleepwalking mode. Maybe some people dwell because starker differences between seasons necessitates different behaviors?
    Agreed. It depends largely on how one processes time, how they gather impressions of contextual data. I only remember things as contexts that are tied to internal feelings and impressions; I recollect time-frames in a rather circuitous way, more often than not. Others I have known seem to have a keen grasp of discrete intervals of time, or even linear sequences. While unchanging seasons can create a sort of somnolence, which may influence forgetfulness, I tend to think that people are more than capable of registering time in a variety of ways. So, if they forget, it's most likely because they want to, or don't care.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    if you want to measure time without periodic phenomenon, try to estimate the quantity of information recollectable for each past state. supposing no abnormalities in the storage medium (and abnormalities could skew either way), newer states are more likely to evoke accurate and detailed recollections due to entropic decay over time of the medium in which states are stored.

    linear time: irreversibility, truncated range, atomic parts (by which the entropy is measured)
    circular time: periodic, infinite range, indeterminate parts

    linear time: +Ni, democratic, causal methodologies, reductionistic, commodity accumulation
    circular time: -Ni, aristocratic, coincidence, archetypical, meaningfully recreates the past
    This actually makes sense, and sort of highlights the differences between beta and gamma Ni, the former being more spiritual, the latter being more pragmatic (as far as goals go).
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    Generally, the passing of time hits me when I see certain people and remember what was happening when I last met them ("A year! .. and what have I done with my life in that time?" ) .. or things like people's birthdays and anniversaries .. which bring me back to what was going on last time they occurred. Seasons can do the same thing - to a lesser extent though.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Hey astral, glad to see you back.
    Thanks. Winterpark.

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