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Thread: John Von Neumann

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    Default John Von Neumann




    What do you guys think for him?

    My guess is ENTj. Later I'll give some thoughts about.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Well I don't know who he was/ is

    Considering V.I. alone - ISFp, just because looks like one, but it could be wrong otherwise

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    Definitely an ENT. Maybe a J.... Not sure. But maybe.

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    reviving this thread, based on something i read on wikipedia lol:

    Although von Neumann invariably wore a conservative grey flannel business suit, he enjoyed throwing large parties at his home in Princeton, occasionally twice a week.[19] He was known to even play tennis wearing his business suit. Despite being a notoriously bad driver, he nonetheless enjoyed driving (frequently while reading a book) - occasioning numerous arrests as well as accidents. He once reported one of his car accidents in this way: "I was proceeding down the road. The trees on the right were passing me in orderly fashion at 60 miles per hour. Suddenly one of them stepped in my path."[20] (The von Neumanns would return to Princeton at the beginning of each academic year with a new car.)
    A committed hedonist, von Neumann liked to eat and drink heavily; his wife, Klara, said that he could count everything except calories. He enjoyed yiddish and "off-color" humor (especially limericks) and could make very insensitive jokes (for example: "bodily violence is a displeasure done with the intention of giving pleasure").[citation needed].

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    Well, I've recently read a little bit about his life and he sounds Ti-ENTp: blunt, impatient, loved games and to act weird in parties, etc
    On his intertype relations: apparently, he thought Einstein was slow and boring, although they had a good-but-distant relationship. Einstein was an idealist and Von Neumann was into war planning, for instance. ILE vs ILI? ILE vs LII?
    Richard Feynman and JvN were good friends. JvN, apparently, had a hard time when relaxing and RF advised him not to take things seriously at all. Two ILEs? ILE and LIE? LIE and ILE? LIE and LIE?
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    I thought they were LIE and LIE with different enneagram types? While Einstein might have been an ILE and his "slowness" was related to process-result?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I thought they were LIE and LIE with different enneagram types? While Einstein might have been an ILE and his "slowness" was related to process-result?
    Yes. One of the differences is that Feynman slept with many women and Von Neumann got married twice and had a boring family-life. So Feynman Ne-LIE and Von Neumann Te-LIE or Te-LIE is a possible way out.
    I hate slowness, I feel like an LIE this evening!

    ...and Feynman's sense of humour made people lol, whereas Von Neumann's was difficult to get by "normal people"
    ILE "Searcher"
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    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism View Post
    I think Einstein was Ti-ENTp as well, but probably a 9w1.
    I do as well.

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    John von Neumann definitely hadn't the high-strung energy that EJ types have, I really disagree with the ENTj typing, it doesn't sound sound to me...

    His VI indicates toward LII rather than ILE. He seems rather a controled and humble IJ than an inherent wacko like most EP types are (especially the intuitive types). He shows some kind of humbleness of personality on his pictures, what seems incompatible with EP and EJ types. He always looks contrained and clearly not assertive. In my opinion, he obviously seems to have a PoLR... He is totally feeble in matter of assertiveness.























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    ISFp

    he looks like Tereg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    ISFp

    he looks like Tereg.

    C'mon Maritsa... He has to be a Logical type.

    It's not just because he is fat and has a rounded face that it makes him an ISFp.
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    IJ? Jesus that's a crazy typing, read his biography please. He was an extremely extraverted man.
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    I will show you someone in the same field who I think is LII



    Who is he? Douglas Engelbart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Now, compare and contrast Engelbart with von Neumann
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    IJ? Jesus that's a crazy typing, read his biography please. He was an extremely extraverted man.
    It really depends on what you consider extroversion, I really think that if he was extroverted it would probably appear on his pictures. Think twice, ponder about the subject. If he was EXTREMELY extroverted, it would probably be something remarkable even in his pictures, what is clearly not, in every single picture of him he is, what I would say, kind of EXTREMELY feeble.

    I'll try to read more on him, than I will post my conclusions on the theme... But I find "ENTj" a typing that is really hard to be true, he simply doesn't seem to fit to the archetype, neither the niche of this type.
    Last edited by Quote Unquote; 06-19-2010 at 06:15 AM.
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    C'mooooooooon, John von Neumann with as his hidden agenda? This sounds kind of ridiculous...
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    Default For Comparison

    For Comparison I decided to add the pictures of someone who is most certainly an ENTx. My personal guess is that this person is indeed an ENTj: John Maynard Keynes.



























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    I hope I am not the only one who can clearly perceive Keynes' implicit input, since it would be his hidden agenda if he was indeed an ENTj. Compare to John von Neumann, for me it's clear that his HA is . Can anyone else notice how Keynes has a very different psychological niche if compared to Neumann? It's much more assertive and daring.
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    ISTj or ESTj

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    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-29-2014 at 01:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism View Post
    John Maynard Keynes is a pretty blatant Ti-ENTp. If you actually read his economics, it's all extreme and devaluing.

    An example of an ENTj economist would be someone like Murray N. Rothbard.
    And that makes him ENTp?
    That should make him ESTj

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    John von Neumann - SLE sexy variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    That should make him ESTj
    I'm pretty sure ESTjs value Te. Let me go recheck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    And that makes him ENTp?
    That should make him ESTj
    "Devaluing" modifies both and in that sentence. It is not written such that Keynes extremely used and and devalues , but that he extremely devalues both and .

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    "Devaluing" modifies both and in that sentence. It is not written such that Keynes extremely used and and devalues , but that he extremely devalues both and .
    What do you see as Se then that you claim he "devalues" it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism View Post
    John Maynard Keynes is a pretty blatant Ti-ENTp. If you actually read his economics, it's all extreme and devaluing.

    An example of an ENTj economist would be someone like Murray N. Rothbard.
    I really disagree with that, I mean, I am a Ti - ENTp and I definitely can't see myself in Keynes. Funny that you are an ENTj and it seems that you also don't identify yourself with his theoretical approach.

    But you have to consider the central axis of the type of scientific approach and the theoretical meaning of his work on the practical field. I've read some of Keynes' works (a few pages actually) and I even know the basics of his biography. The essential basis of his philosophical and theoretical behavior seems to be deeply rooted on efficiency and strategical management, much more focused on achieving mundane economic goals than on analyzing the economic reality and describing its essence, like Adam Smith. I would agree that Adam Smith and Karl Marx were Ti - ENTp, but not Keynes.

    I selected a piece of his work The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money for illustrating my point of view. Please notice here the abundant and exaggerated use of and :

    "ALL production is for the purpose of ultimately satisfying a consumer. Time usually elapses, however — and sometimes much time — between the incurring of costs by the producer (with the consumer in view) and the purchase of the output by the ultimate consumer. Meanwhile the entrepreneur (including both the producer and the investor in this description) has to form the best expectations[1] he can as to what the consumers will be prepared to pay when he is ready to supply them (directly or indirectly) after the elapse of what may be a lengthy period; and he has no choice but to be guided by these expectations, if he is to produce at all by processes which occupy time.

    These expectations, upon which business decisions depend, fall into two groups, certain individuals or firms being specialised in the business of framing the first type of expectation and others in the business of framing the second. The first type is concerned with the price which a manufacturer can expect to get for his “finished” output at the time when he commits himself to starting the process which will produce it; output being “finished” (from the point of view of the manufacturer) when it is ready to be used or to be sold to a second party. The second type is concerned with what the entrepreneur can hope to earn in the shape of future returns if he purchases (or, perhaps, manufactures) “finished” output as an addition to his capital equipment. We may call the former short-term expectation and the latter long-term expectation."
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    Last edited by mfckr; 12-29-2014 at 01:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    What do you see as Se then that you claim he "devalues" it?
    It wasn't my sentence that I was clarifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism View Post
    Lol. He spends too many words elaborating on what an ENTj would typically assume for granted.
    Such as?

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    Last edited by mfckr; 12-29-2014 at 01:57 AM.

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    Well it is obvious that alphas are plainly just stupid. How's that for superfluous context?

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Well it is obvious that alphas are plainly just stupid. How's that for superfluous context?
    Lol. QFT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Well it is obvious that alphas are plainly just stupid. How's that for superfluous context?
    You've made a powerful enemy today.

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    I can see the eyes... the have a "sudden movement" quality. That's a trait only of LIEs.

    Man people don't understand that studying dual-type theory makes you better at classical socionics too.

    Keynes VIs like an EIE.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 06-19-2010 at 09:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I can see the eyes... the have a "sudden movement" quality. That's a trait only of LIEs.
    That's a good one, I like that.

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    Last edited by mfckr; 12-29-2014 at 01:57 AM.

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    My current opinion:

    John Von Neumann --> Ti-ENTp
    Richard Feynman --> Te-ENTp
    Albert Einstein --> Ni-ENTp
    Steven Spielberg --> Ne-ENTp
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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