Typing me - ISFj or otherwise?

[Sanity Panda]

Hi again.
[Feel a little bit bad that I haven't contributed more to this forum over the last few months, when I'm asking for help once again]

I'd write down things about myself, unfortunately it'd most likely come across as extremely ramblish and confusing so it's better that I try answer general ideas/things specifically.

I'm introverted and spend a large amount of time alone mulling over my own thought patterns and my understanding of self. You could say that I've become obsessive with this, the search for my own identity and all that.

When I'm around other people, I like to believe that others see me as a stable harmonious person, having said that internally I would not describe myself as mentally sound. This is because I have a lot of social anxiety around people, likely to be a huge factor in my quietness. I've identified that I fear rejection/failure and have a considerable amount of perfectionism within me. We all know that perfectionism can lead to paralysation however, and this is true with being spontaneous and decision making.

My interests mostly revolve around surfing on the internet, reading whatever interests me. Usually I'm found browsing the relationship, psychology and philosophy or general discussion sections on forums.

Other major random interests are gaming~ Yay. Dancing (Recently developed interest) and messing around with paranormal ideas such as astrology, tarot cards etc.

You can say that I've been brainwashed by this ideas, however the communities that I frequent have opened me up to see other perspectives on things that are usually emotionally charged such as polyamory, incest and asexuality. Often I'd be arguing against others because it's the "right" way to go even if it's not the accepted belief.

[munenori2]

INFj wouldn't be horribly inconsistent as an option.

[FDG]

Yeah, INFj seems good to me.

[aestrivex]

perhaps IEI, but from this type of minimalistic description it's really impossible to tell.

[Mea]

seems INFp

[Sanity Panda]

perhaps IEI, but from this type of minimalistic description it's really impossible to tell.

Sorry. I'm not entirely sure what sort of information would be useful. Will post some of my problem solving/emotional outlet writings that I do when I'm feeling confused/down or lost.

[Sanity Panda]

When I'm feeling down and need to figure out something within myself... Writing seems best.

Inner turmoil is the expression that I'd give to myself. Constantly changing within, while maintaining the surface as slightly blue.

Like many others, I might be giving off negative vibes. But from the outsiders perspective, we can never see the intensity of the problem and how much it actually effects us as human beings.

I've always got the impression with the immediate people that I know, that emotionally I suffered alot more than others.

Yet at the same time I'm 100% aware that there will be people in this world that suffer much more than me. It's not a competition, yet I've somehow clinged to this identity of pain.

It gives me a sense of individuality, something that marks me out of as different. If I didn't have this emotional pain then I'd be somebody normal and quiet, without much thinking.

I've surpressed my feelings a large amount believing that it was the right thing to do, moderate my beliefs and get rid of irrational beliefs. Practicing understanding and compassion and truthfully I still think this is true...

The only thing is that I could let myself feel my emotions alot more, to let them in my mind rather than telling myself what I should do. Forcing the emotion to go another way.

Another thing that I might have to change is that I'm unwilling to trust other people, and the belief that they will get tired of me talking about of my problems and want to be less around me.

Part of me desires to be liked, not disliked. I don't want to be seen as the negative emotional person that leeches off other people, nor do I want to burden people.

Having said that I'm willing to let other people share their problems with me? Why is this? This is probably a step in my goal. For us to become closer, for them to trust and like me.

If I'm letting other people share their problems, and I don't seem to have a problem with it. How come I can't seem to do the same, why do I believe in the pessimistic side of the situation?

Is it the belief that I can't control the environment and I can't be certain of what other people will think. I can only be sure of myself, and hence I can only provide what is there for myself. My own stability?

Perhaps it is a case of trusting their words rather than acknowledging the fact that they are willing to see me as a friend.

I'll have to be honest here. I'm a little hurt and angry inside, there's more saddness in my response. My expectations of the situation was shattered, hoping and dreaming of a reality that didn't really manifest itself however it's possible that there's just a delay. As each day passes though, I see this less and less likely.

What am I angry about? I'm not sure... it's the mixed signals that I seem to get. It's the sense of being played for a fool, it's painful as well because I've known you for so long. It doesn't help that I internalise the feeling and get a little agitated by myself for feeling negatively, I don't want to do that.

You once told me that you felt the pressure of being perfect in front of me because of what I kept saying. It's probably true~ maybe I haven't been acknowledging that you are human and have flaws, but at the same time I never saw them as major flaws but personality behaviours that come naturally and so could be understandable and acceptable.

It's frustrating that I keep running to this road block where I'm uncertain of your intentions? Why is there that conflict?

It's because your behaviour don't reflect your words. From the words I understand we are close friends...

Occasionally I get messages from you, or talk to you. However I can't be certain that it's really you... I'm uncertain whether a wall has been put up between us. The idea that you are just being polite now since we've been a friend for such a long time, but it's time to move on as there's no longer a future with our friendship.

I can only hope that 2009 will be a better year for our friendship to blossom once again as it has been on standby for a long period of time.

There's no point in this blame necessary as I remember that you are working during this period of time.

This is a period of intensive lonliness because even htough I have met many wonderful friends, I lack the ability to connect with others on a scale that we connected over the last few years. Why is this?

It might just be to do with the fact that we connected early in the stage where my own insecurities and fear had not gotten the best of me, and thus I was able to forge that bond that would allow me to feel safe with you. With others I feel the pressure developed over the maany years.

I wonder by the end of the year, if I'll still be in touch with any of my friends. Is university for the social scene or the education? Personally for me... it's a case of meeting new people and experiencing new opportunities, followed by the education system of opening new paths way in the future.

I've noticed that one of my behaviour is to give the correct response, or the most reasonable response. However that might not neccessary be my own answers initially. I come to my conclusion after a long thought out period, and there's the possability that I might feel completely differently.

This produced a world of shoulds. The wise decision to make, the world of the perfect scenarios. What I should be striving for ideally. The thing is that I would like my views to be reasonable, I want to align myself with what I consider truth. Truth is not always based on first impression.

The only problem is when I start censoring my own thoughts, and believing that I'm being unreasonable. When does adapting to other ideas start becoming dangerous to your own identity, opinion and loss of self.

This fear of failure has really gripped me by the horns. Things always seem much worse in my mind than in reality, it's funny how that happens... really.

I've been paralysed by all these problems. I'm the sort of person that can't move forward until a problem has been solved, since it will end up consuming my thoughts. Making me analyse the situation in a circular fashion to solve something that is fixed by action alone.

Analysis of my problems Take 2

I'm constantly censoring myself, but do I know why? I like being right, trying to have well thought out stances, it also stops me from being irrational. Haha it's funny since Arioch mentioned that it was silly to be putting so much pressure on being perfect/not irrational.

- I need to be perfect.

This is not a negative thing. I've searched for truths because of the above, it's pushed me to be more accepting and make me think through things properly rather than lashing out. But I second guess myself to see whether I'm doing things correctly.

I feel like I've failed on...

Will power
Social interaction

I'm scared of making mistakes, and they plague me for a long time.

Some might see me as superficial constantly searching for the perfect solution rather than letting myself express myself.

I'm scared I won't be able to handle the situation. I don't want to mess up... it destroys my idea of being perfect.

If I'm perfect then people will probably like me better. I got kicked out of school earlier on because of my behaviour, I don't want that to happen again.

My fear of rejection requires me to be perfect, but since I can't do that... I stress and feel useless and powerless.

It's not that revealing myself will cause me to be rejected, merely that it's not enough. My current self is not enough... and people don't really want to be around me since I'm incomplete. Therefore those that have proved themselves safe, I'll stick around since I know that they are willinig to accept me as I am. But I'm scared when I go into a negative phase that they won't want to anymore since there's only so much a friend can take.


I want to be liked. I'm ISFJ.. it's part of my personality.

For a long time...
We tell ourselves that we don't like to burden other people with our problems, we want to be a good friend. Willing to listen to other people. We want to be good.

Yet at the same time it's possible we didn't tell others because we wanted to be strong and didn't want to be seen a weak, we don't want to be vunerable. No that's not it... It's just a case of being seen as imperfect and thus rejected.

We don't accept our own imperfections, and are scared that others won't accept our imperfection.

[Sanity Panda]

One of my closest friends I've known for several years. Having said this, I rarely write because it's difficult to know what to write.

Hey,

X mentioned that you were full with work, so it's definitely a nice surprise to hear from you. I wasn't expecting this at all.

"A lot of things have happened, though now they all seem meaningless. The whole existence of IB is for us to look forward to the future, not enjoy the present, which is excactly my purpose of life right now."

That's so deep. *Applaud*
It's certainly true that a lot the past become meaningless in the sense we needn't worry about them. The university of X sounds like a fantastic place, I can only wish you the best of luck!

Speaking of universities. I'll have started my new course, at my new university. The first two weeks are freshers' week so we won't be focusing too much on study. It's mostly clubbing, drinking and meeting others. *Yum* Having said that I'm really looking forward to the idea of new friends and generally having a good time with others. There's alot more opportunities to explore at university, especially now that I've got a student loan.

Driving lessons, instrumental lessons... The world is my oyster. OK, maybe not. I'll be surviving like all the other students, baked beans on bread, 8p pot noodles and near expired food (It's cheapest when the shops are closing) I suppose I'll have a bit more monies since I won't be spending £30 on drinks in a night-out. Should be a fantastic trial of endurance, we'll become experts at living in the wild by the time we've finished.

What else has been happening?
Our trip to Orlando Florida Disney World! Granted that was about a month ago. A whole range of emotions and events occured in those two weeks, where to start?

When we first arrived at the hotel, we couldn't believe that we had been placed in a bungalow. The building itself had the caribbean feel to it, along with horrible contrasting colours of pink and fake green. Inside was rather pleasent though, huge mirrors, television hidden in the cupboard, two kingsized beds (4 people sharing) and they even gave us bunny dolls made out of towels. The air conditioning was kept on at all times due to the heat outside and the humidity caused by passing tropical storms. *Putting it lightly...*

The dining plan. We were all given this ticket that allowed us 14 quickservice meals, snacks and diningservice. Most of the meals leave you quite bloaty feeling, there's so much beef and chicken, at the same time getting a hold of good vegetables was extremely hard. We spent the first few days using quickservice meals for breakfast and dinner, thinking we just had to worry about ourselves. We were totally shock and chaos when we found out a) 8 of us were grouped together b)That in 5 days we had already spent nearly half our credit. Quickly changed our eatting pattern... >.<

Otherwise we spent alot of time shopping, visiting theme parks, swimming (in my case-drowning. You need to give me some advice, everybody just keeps on telling me to kick...) and fine dining in expensive restaurants. 50 diners, princess and castles, expensive hotel place, hawaian etc. The rides weren't as great as I thought they would be. You know how when you close your eyes, you can feel the ride afterwards? That didn't happen at all! The thing they did have however was loads of theme-based shops after you finished. It's crazy... My favourite ride so far had to be the hulk. You sort of exploded upwards through a cannon. At this point I have to say that the little children are crazy, going to the front on some of these major rides.

A couple of brief funny (and somewhat cynical) situations that stand out.

I tried to lift up a some random chinese kid, who I mistook for someone else. That was rather embarrasing when he just starred at me, in hindsight it was rather obvious that he was much shorter than usual. The fact that Kay was laughing at this didn't help either.

My uncle drove into the staff parking area (it was closer to the themepark).Next thing we know...there are two car wardens tracking us down. Our excuse when questioned? "Oh sorry sir, I'm lost and I'm looking for my brothers car."

While taking a group picture with Mickey Mouse characters. Bruce tried to rub Mickey's noise, effectively slapping the guy. Suffice to say he wasn't very pleased. Moved out then back in but didn't want us touching anymore.

We spent 40 minutes waiting for some ferry that usually comes every 15 minutes. However decided to go home since the littleluns wanted to go swimming, they already had quite an exhuasting morning. Some guy tells us that we're crazy for leaving especially having waited for so long. He was right. Sod's law kicked in, the boat turned up 5 minutes after we were walking in the other direction. It was pretty funny in any ironic way, although the family was pissed off considerably.

Loads of family photos were taken. I wish I could show you some of them, but such is the life of digital cameras. You don't have hard copies... It's probably on facebook though.

Anyhow I'll keep you posted with university in the next few weeks.
See you till then,
Sanity

More dwelling...

Think I've returned back to the light side, or I was never on the dark side. It just doesn't feel natural to me even though I wanted to not care about anything.

The truth is that I'm attracted to things such as harmony and beauty in the environment. Freedom is that harmony.
Meaning is beautiful. Deep natures are wonderful.

Most people are interesting and complicated, I'd like to learn about their lifestyle. What made them, them today? In fact I think before I start writing a letter I'd love to write a bullet point of what interests me about other people.

Positive emotions are nice. I like being surrounded by this sort of feeling... it's love isn't it? The calm sort of feeling, rather than the raging infatuation passions. Long and sustainable even if there's no real high.

I'm a believer that the person creates their own environment of beauty. Therefore I want to contribute to society because I believe it's the right thing to do, but also because it's the most natural harmonious thing.

The thing that was stopping me, or is still stopping me is the focus on negative thoughts. I've been so self-absorbed that I've lost sight of whats out there because it's difficult to focus on other things properly when you are feeling down yourself.

Music reflects my soul.
Soft music reflects the inner harmony that I desire.
Rap music reflects the energy and enthusiasm that I want to bring to the world. Joy and radiance because this manifests as positive feelings.
Deep messages in music reflect the deepness and lasting effect, the complexity and simplicity of the true nature. The genuine inside rather than the surface. What's really inside.

The belief that I had to be perfect first meant that I couldn't really focus on other people and my surrounding environments. Once again, to reinforce this idea because I was too focused on my own problems and how it crippled me. You know what the ironic thing is? The ironic thing is that these sort of thinking would backfire and work against me.

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Their behaviour, thinking patterns and how they would react in certain situations.
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Their views of reality
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How their past shaped it, how it will impact their future.
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Their own interests.
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What they think about my interests.
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I'm interested in learning things, especially the views of other people and how they operate. This allows me to gain new views and at the same time it's because I want to be around these specific people. I'm interested in wanting to know who they are, and what they think. As well as having a good time with these people.

[aestrivex]

i'd suggest that the volume of abstract, self-searching content and the need for social acceptance are probably more indicative of IEI.

[Sanity Panda]

i'd suggest that the volume of abstract, self-searching content and the need for social acceptance are probably more indicative of IEI.

Just want to thank you for even taking time to go through that.

It's clear that this problem affects my life and thinking in a major way, so what are the chances I could be some other type if this was removed?

I.e. Will problems affect the results, or are the problems indicative of results?

[munenori2]

Whether it's type related or not, what's written here reflects a good deal on what passes through my mind when I'm facing what I feel are crises between me and other people, as well as some more general attitudes (like the focus on harmony and beauty in nature or my surroundings, viewing people as an interesting puzzle, or searching for personal meaning in art, music, or my experiences). However, a lot of the content seems a little more self-entrenched than I would be now (honestly some of it reminds me of my high school years).

[calenwen]

I don't know, I wouldn't say that you are necessarily INFp. I related to a lot of what you were saying about being negative and dealing with a lot of inner turmoil. You seem to care a lot about what people think of you and wanting them to like you, though, which does sound INFp>ISFj.
I don't know which ISFj descriptions you have read, but it sounds like you may have done a bit of MBTI ISFJ reading, and if this is the case, I encourage you to read this: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...sing_introvert, particularly the subtype descriptions. ISFjs are largely misunderstood due to a lack of decent material about them which I believe is caused by the majority of writers being alphas, particularly ENTps.

[redbaron]

I don't know, I wouldn't say that you are necessarily INFp. I related to a lot of what you were saying about being negative and dealing with a lot of inner turmoil. You seem to care a lot about what people think of you and wanting them to like you, though, which does sound INFp>ISFj.
I don't know which ISFj descriptions you have read, but it sounds like you may have done a bit of MBTI ISFJ reading, and if this is the case, I encourage you to read this: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...sing_introvert, particularly the subtype descriptions. ISFjs are largely misunderstood due to a lack of decent material about them which I believe is caused by the majority of writers being alphas, particularly ENTps.

really? that's interesting. I hadn't realized that before.

[strrrng]

ISFjs are largely misunderstood due to a lack of decent material about them which I believe is caused by the majority of writers being alphas, particularly ENTps.

YES

[Jarno]

Sanita Panda = INFJ (EII)

IMO

[ZTCrawcrustle]

I thought Stratievskaya was an ISFj? and Filatova an INFj?

Yes. Most of the profiles I've read seem to be largely written by Deltas, but I realize that several of the more popular ones were written by Alphas. I also thought that Filatova was EII simply from reading her LSI and SLE descriptions.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

On Sanity Panda's type, there really is not enough outstanding information. Sensor seems unlikely. (How many sensors are inside their heads, mulling over their thoughts?)

Saying "I relate to what was written" does not signify anything. Conflicts can have the same thoughts and reach the same conclusion, but the way they will approach their conclusion will be different.

[munenori2]

Yeah, I totally can relate.

[1981slater]

Not sure, but I'd say INTj subtype

[calenwen]

really? that's interesting. I hadn't realized that before.

Meh, yeah, I mean, who in their right mind is going to jump up and say, "Oh! Oh! I'm an ISFj because I uphold traditions and I need to be needed and I work tirelessly at mundane tasks day after day!"
Most of the descriptions are utter shit. It's the reason I originally mistyped myself as ISFp.

[Sanity Panda]

Panda, wound you consider yourself to be a hard diligent worker, or a heavy procrastinator who can't sit still and relax for long?

What kind of things do you find yourself valuing in others?

Currently I'm a heavy procrastinator, however I usually can't relax since the work will still be hanging over my head. I like to think that as soon as I've sorted out my emotional social problems, I can move on and start solving or improving other aspects of my life.

Hm. What do I value most in other people?

The people I'm usually most drawn to have sincerity and kindness. I don't think it matters too much if the other person lives a quiet life that some might see as boring. Being interesting is nice, but I wouldn't say it's a definite requirement. Most of my friends are quirky in some manner. It's especially good if they are interested in other people, since it's fun listening to their observations on humanity.

Unfortunately I usually have an aversion to people that are extremely high energy. I appreciate the highs they bring, but I find that it's like a rollercoaster. There is usually extreme lows as well. I dislike conflict and needless drama.

[Sanity Panda]

This is the reason I've considered being ISFJ. (MBTI-wise)

- I usually do respect traditions since most people have a valid reason for practicing what they believe. However I don't like doing stuff for no reasons, or things that I deem pointless. That probably applies to everybody however.

- I like finding the motivation behind peoples behaviour and speaking, it's just fun. However I think it specifically applies only to people and not necessarily to other aspects of my life. Awareness of other people will benefit me in connecting to others and also understanding myself, hence the heavy amount of introspection.

- I'm constantly collecting data and looking to the past to create a model of reality. This would be "Si" in the MBTI description. I'm not sure if I actually do a fair amount of Ni. But I'm horrible at Ne (Sorry... working with a model I currently understand. Know that the socionics one is different.)

What sort of information can I give that is relevant to figuring out my type? Any suggestions?

Also... Is it even possible to be a sensor in MBTI, and an intuitive in socionics? I know they are different systems but people tend to be vaguely similar. Otherwise it's a case of me giving a false impression here, or that I've mistyped myself with MBTI. Aaack.

[Jarno]

- I usually do respect traditions since most people have a valid reason for practicing what they believe. However I don't like doing stuff for no reasons, or things that I deem pointless. That probably applies to everybody however.

Traditions is an inaccurate correlator for Sensing. I've seen it being used at some MBTI sites, although many do not use this. Socionics doesn't rely on this at all. Rather use 'in the here and now' for Sensing.

- I like finding the motivation behind peoples behaviour and speaking, it's just fun. However I think it specifically applies only to people and not necessarily to other aspects of my life. Awareness of other people will benefit me in connecting to others and also understanding myself, hence the heavy amount of introspection.

The first part points pretty clearly to Intuition

- I'm constantly collecting data and looking to the past to create a model of reality. This would be "Si" in the MBTI description. I'm not sure if I actually do a fair amount of Ni. But I'm horrible at Ne (Sorry... working with a model I currently understand. Know that the socionics one is different.)

Yes Si as 'remembering' in MBTI. Even Jung didn't write one thing about that. I'm still curious who has ever come up with this idea. You should ignore functions of MBTI since they are competely buggy, especially for introverts. Although Socionics functions are not buggy, they are still vague and difficult to notive from your own perspective. Rather ask others how they perceive you. Or compare yourself to others.

What sort of information can I give that is relevant to figuring out my type? Any suggestions?

Ask others how they perceive you. Or compare yourself to others. Check the 4 Socionics dichotomys or read the ISFJ and INFJ socionics descriptions. Stay away from vague reinin dichotomys or trying to see IM elements in yourself.

Also... Is it even possible to be a sensor in MBTI, and an intuitive in socionics? I know they are different systems but people tend to be vaguely similar. Otherwise it's a case of me giving a false impression here, or that I've mistyped myself with MBTI. Aaack.

No, although both systems use their own set of definitions, both talk about the same phenomena. If you insist on using something of MBTI, use their type descriptions, or the dichotomys.