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Thread: Solitude or socializing and relating to others for INTjs

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Default INTJs and their relations to others

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Do INTJs identify more with (1) or with (2):

    (1)
    -almost always chooses solitary activities
    -prefers to be alone


    (2)-odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
    -ideas of reference
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Uh..... out of the way you present them there

    More (1) than (2)..... but......... I don't know, I don't like how it's worded, phrased. It seems like it's a loaded question of sorts.



    How about you just say what you are really differentiating between here, and not be indirect about it?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Uh..... out of the way you present them there

    More (1) than (2)..... but......... I don't know, I don't like how it's worded, phrased. It seems like it's a loaded question of sorts.



    How about you just say what you are really differentiating between here, and not be indirect about it?
    What I really want to find out is whether INTPs have a purity of thought, that is are my thoughts only my own or are they based on the opinions of society today or yesterday. The sense of identity, is it based on the ideas or is it based on the space surrounding the individual.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    so a kind of nature v nurture, but sociaonically speaking in a way?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Why are you asking INTJs, then?


    PS: oh, I get it now. I see your thread in Gamma
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: INTJs and their relations to others

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Do INTJs identify more with (1) or with (2):

    (1)
    -almost always chooses solitary activities
    -prefers to be alone


    (2)-odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
    -ideas of reference
    both i guess. i would rather work alone then depend on someone elses incompetence. and though i don't mind absorbing people every so often, i would rather be alone.

    on the thoughts of "magical thinking" i think that's the wrong word, since some of that can happen. and it's a brain thing, not magic, though if i were to exist in anothe time and realm, i think i would make a good wizard.

    but i have had premonitions. or feelings that something bad is going to happen. and lately i've been thinking of something, only to have it happen later that day or week. all very specific things. i'm trying to figure out if it's just me, or am i thinking in a certain way and it's being broadcasted - i'm not sure. but it's happening more and more. though usually it's a tv show that i was just thinking about, only to have it there the next day.

    i'm not superstitious, otherwise i would have so much bad luck, i would need a dozen 4 leaf clovers, 15 leprachuans, and a few dozen rabbit's feet, minced in a blender to create the world's luckiest shake. too many mirrors, ladders and cats have crossed my path for me to believe.

    you would have to define bizzarre fantasies. but yeah i guess so. i think in pictures. when i'm working and i'm relaxing i can dream while awake. and my sleeping dreams are much more wild. as to preoccupations - it all depends on the viewer of said person.

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    mike_INTj: are you left-handed?

    I read somewhere left-handed people think in pictures, that's because their right part of the brain is dominant (the creative part)


    as for the topic I think I am more solitary than idyiosincratic.

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    I think the two go hand in hand.

    For me, (2) doesn't ever occur without (1) coming first. I don't ever remember having any "occult notions" while being in a crowd... well maybe if I was in my own little world while in a crowd.

    I need to make something clear. I don't believe in telepathy, etc. in a literal sense. I think that's pretty silly actually. I do believe in a link between superstition and psychology.

    Having said that, I do sometime get these weird "vibes" sometimes. It kind of like some sort of global vision where I feel like I understand my surroundings.

    There have been a few times where I feel like I saw briefly into the near future. However, I think this could be a result of my brain making itself feel like it saw something before it happend after the fact (rather than literally knowing the something is about to happen).
    INTj
    "... the present is too much for the senses, too crowding, too confusing, too present to imagine" - RF

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    Default Re: INTJs and their relations to others

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Do INTJs identify more with (1) or with (2):

    (1)
    -almost always chooses solitary activities
    -prefers to be alone
    - that could be related to Ti dominance


    (2)-odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
    -ideas of reference
    - that could be related to Ni dominance
    So considering such reasoning, INTjs are solitary, INTps are idyosincratic

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    What is the issue with calling INTps contrary?

    I think both types are fairly idiosyncratic, but for different reasons.

    INTps seem more contrary to me, but maybe that's because I am INTj
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    UDP Get out of here you're no INTj!!!

    you don't fool me

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    elaborate?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    well i don't know, just an impression

    since you don't defend yourself I'll assume I am right Ha!


    EDIT: No offence whatsoever, so don't take it personally, I like you, but it just bothers me people that claim to be INTjs when in fact they are not and after a while it turns out they mistyped themselves.

    @Anyone out there. I have a request. Please if you don't know your type for sure don't suppose at the very instant moment that you are an INTj. What the hell is so special of being an INTj anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    What is the issue with calling INTps contrary?

    I think both types are fairly idiosyncratic, but for different reasons.

    INTps seem more contrary to me, but maybe that's because I am INTj

    anyone going to respond to this?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I can't choose. I'm not sure if I prefer to be alone and for the second, I could like to have magical abilities and I believe in them but I don't think I have any. I do tarot-readings - does that count?

    I like working alone, but I don't like spending too much of my spare time on my own. My head gets so full of thoughts and ideas and they will start circling around in my mind. I will get the exact same thoughts over and over again until these thoughts get some input and they change. But I wouldn't have just anyone near me - only a selected few.

    Just as Mike_intj, I would have so much bad luck if I was superstitious. Braking mirrors is kinda spooky but black cats are just cute.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    mike_INTj: are you left-handed?

    I read somewhere left-handed people think in pictures, that's because their right part of the brain is dominant (the creative part)


    as for the topic I think I am more solitary than idyiosincratic.
    nope. i write (barley) with my right hand, what you can read of it anyway. my typing is barely legible, my handwriting is far worse. i've trained my left hand to do other things.

    however in the end, i don't believe in the left and right brain thing. there may be a left side doing the right side thing. but i can't believe those studies. maybe one small piece of brain shares the other side, but that's it.

    on tests (and so far i havn't ever had consistent results). i've tested my brain dominance as both left, right and balanced. or balanced with a slight right tendency. the problem is, the test is only as good as the person who made the answers. and since many are assumed, nothing is ever that accurate. questions like, which side of the movie theater to you enter in - left or right - is not a complete question. the answer is, it depends - where did i come in from? and where was the door located. because truthfully, i would rather see the screen straight on then at an angle.

    other tests use weird shapes with colors. looking at the explanations left me scratching my head. the reasons why i answered it had nothing to do with their explanation. and their explanation didn't make sense - like how can color shapes be auditory?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    well i don't know, just an impression

    since you don't defend yourself I'll assume I am right Ha!


    EDIT: No offence whatsoever, so don't take it personally, I like you, but it just bothers me people that claim to be INTjs when in fact they are not and after a while it turns out they mistyped themselves.

    @Anyone out there. I have a request. Please if you don't know your type for sure don't suppose at the very instant moment that you are an INTj. What the hell is so special of being an INTj anyway?
    i think it's the mastermind title (i have to something with that giant laser). or that it makes you very unique or special (not a common type). or if you have theories people will listen to them, because they think because you are an INTJ, you've thought long and hard on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    nope. i write (barley) with my right hand, what you can read of it anyway. my typing is barely legible, my handwriting is far worse. i've trained my left hand to do other things.
    haha, don't worry the message that's send out there is more important =)

    yeah, I can guess it's the mastermind title that is appealing, but do they know with a master mind comes a "master trouble"? I doubt it

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    mike_INTj: are you left-handed?

    I read somewhere left-handed people think in pictures, that's because their right part of the brain is dominant (the creative part)


    as for the topic I think I am more solitary than idyiosincratic.
    nope. i write (barley) with my right hand, what you can read of it anyway. my typing is barely legible, my handwriting is far worse. i've trained my left hand to do other things.

    however in the end, i don't believe in the left and right brain thing. there may be a left side doing the right side thing. but i can't believe those studies. maybe one small piece of brain shares the other side, but that's it.

    on tests (and so far i havn't ever had consistent results). i've tested my brain dominance as both left, right and balanced. or balanced with a slight right tendency. the problem is, the test is only as good as the person who made the answers. and since many are assumed, nothing is ever that accurate. questions like, which side of the movie theater to you enter in - left or right - is not a complete question. the answer is, it depends - where did i come in from? and where was the door located. because truthfully, i would rather see the screen straight on then at an angle.

    other tests use weird shapes with colors. looking at the explanations left me scratching my head. the reasons why i answered it had nothing to do with their explanation. and their explanation didn't make sense - like how can color shapes be auditory?
    This is like the fourth time TODAY that I have been reading one of your posts and got the feeling that you are not just another geek. :wink: You are just me in a male body. Just as you, I find it difficult to answer the "which side..." questions for that reason, I've got right-, left- or balanced brain side dominance. I think in pictures, I never know how to formulate my sentences (I often start with "And" or whatever comes into mind). That's not an insult, it's just a trait that we both seem to have.

    Neither of us is able to choose which one (1 or 2) is more correct. I would make an excellent witch if real magic existed... And you used the word realm, which is always a good thing.

    As for me being an INTj... I'm not sure. For about 2 years I tested INTj on practically every test out there (MBTI and Socionics). I also remembered that I tested INTj years ago, when it was just another random personality test. Couple of months ago I tested ISTj on one test, then another and it wouldn't stop. Tests kept telling me that I'm sensing. I thought long and hard what type I really was, I read the descriptions and well... The answer is in the signature - I tend to act like an ISTj often, but I definitely don't think like one.

    EDIT: I'm right-handed and my handwriting isn't very neat. Almost everyone can still understand it though.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    nope. i write (barley) with my right hand, what you can read of it anyway. my typing is barely legible, my handwriting is far worse. i've trained my left hand to do other things.
    haha, don't worry the message that's send out there is more important =)

    yeah, I can guess it's the mastermind title that is appealing, but do they know with a master mind comes a "master trouble"? I doubt it
    people are attracted to the glitz and glory of the name. but are so totally unaware of the painful emotions that come with it. people think we are like Data or Spock. but don't have any idea about the emtional stuff. how lonley one can get, you simply stop trusting people. that's why i posted that dilbert cartoon, it totally fits. someone comes over, she may be perfect. but due to past experiences with people talking to you, you think the worst. and because you plan for the future, a million things go through your head - why is that person talking to me - of all people?

    but mostly i think it's because people want to fit somewhere. can't see their own preferences, reads the different descriptions. then they force themselves into one catagory. it's kind of like hearing about a new illness - and upon hearing it, suddenly they have that problem too. it's the number 1 reason why people are always at the doctors.

    but what they don't understand, like personalities - it's not just one thing from the list. it's 5-10 or more. so when people read "likes to hang out alone", "doesn't like parties", etc - they may read it as a every so often basis. founding the idea on the last time it happened. and once they have it locked, that's it - INTJ is born.

    personally i take every test i find, a real INTJ probably would. since the first test is doubtful, you need a large sampling. of course this might mean the off chance that your type will "change". if they change and they accept it - it becomes a Blog entry. otherwise, they will defend the title they fell in love with.

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    mimisor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    but mostly i think it's because people want to fit somewhere. can't see their own preferences, reads the different descriptions. then they force themselves into one catagory. it's kind of like hearing about a new illness - and upon hearing it, suddenly they have that problem too. it's the number 1 reason why people are always at the doctors.
    fair enough, mike. it's the "medicine student symptom", in sociology basically a perception distorsion mechanism.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    but what they don't understand, like personalities - it's not just one thing from the list. it's 5-10 or more. so when people read "likes to hang out alone", "doesn't like parties", etc - they may read it as a every so often basis. founding the idea on the last time it happened. and once they have it locked, that's it - INTJ is born.
    Yes. Toatally is a wrong idea to interpret like this the descriptions. The entire description has to fit in every tiny unimpoirtant detail - not like most people do - select bits from it. In fact, if we were to proceed like this, I would certainly fit with all types, more or less. We're human and it's only normal that we have similarities in judgements or feelings

    personally i take every test i find, a real INTJ probably would. since the first test is doubtful, you need a large sampling. of course this might mean the off chance that your type will "change". if they change and they accept it - it becomes a Blog entry. otherwise, they will defend the title they fell in love with.
    Not necessarily a real INTj would take more tests. I'd say an INTj knows what he/she knows and what doesn't. I only took one test - on socionics.com - and I knew that was me. Then reading a lot on the forum it only confirmed everything.

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    In psych they call it "Med Student Syndrome." I always thought that title was hilarious lol. Sooo true!

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    I like the questions about parties for E/I. It's like... either could like/dislike either situation...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    In psych they call it "Med Student Syndrome." I always thought that title was hilarious lol. Sooo true!
    thanks Jadae, that's what I meant to say


    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    I'm not answering the questions how I "want" to be either, or based on just one recent occurrence, I'm consciously being as objective as I possibly can. But I'm not INTj.
    It only proves testing is crappy. It can give you an idea, like you said, to narrow the possibilities - but ultimately tests are not accurate. So you have to combine the result of the test with the description and then make up your mind.


    And some might actually be INTj but don't fit the exact mold in your mind as to how that should be, and so you decide that they can't join your little club.
    That's unfair Diana of you to say that. I just dislike people that pretend to be someone they are not. Their own expressed doubts makes me not "accepting" them as INTjs

    The problem for me comes with the fact that in all the type descriptions there are things that just are not me. None of them fits perfectly. If the entire description has to fit, then I am like I suggested early on, none of the 16 types.
    Well, one has to know oneself very well to be able to decide, don't you think so?

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    Default Re: INTJs and their relations to others

    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Do INTJs identify more with (1) or with (2):

    (1)
    -almost always chooses solitary activities
    -prefers to be alone
    - that could be related to Ti dominance


    (2)-odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
    -ideas of reference
    - that could be related to Ni dominance
    So considering such reasoning, INTjs are solitary, INTps are idyosincratic

    gugu, i really have to disagree with that logic. if i were to come in and say, ok, let's make a test to tell apart INTj and INTp. i give option 1 and option 2, without explaining why the two options are chosen, whether there should be any correlation or not, whether the correlation means anything real or if they are coincidental or symptomatic of other underlying traits, or why these criteria must tell the two apart. all of 3 people or so answer the question. it doesn't mean anything! door number 3, people, door number 3!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    but what they don't understand, like personalities - it's not just one thing from the list. it's 5-10 or more. so when people read "likes to hang out alone", "doesn't like parties", etc - they may read it as a every so often basis. founding the idea on the last time it happened. and once they have it locked, that's it - INTJ is born.
    Yes. Toatally is a wrong idea to interpret like this the descriptions. The entire description has to fit in every tiny unimpoirtant detail - not like most people do - select bits from it. In fact, if we were to proceed like this, I would certainly fit with all types, more or less. We're human and it's only normal that we have similarities in judgements or feelings
    Damn you people. You made me doubt my type again. I read the descriptions again. There was only one thing on the http://www.socionics.com/ INTj description that didn't fit. "INTjs behave in a very self-restrained manner with strangers, never showing initiative first and always maintaining a long psychological distance." That's not so true. I'm not very trusting and warm, but I do give a quite good impression of being friendly and talkative. I learned it after moving. I didn't know anyone so I had nothing to lose. So this difference is something I leaned over time. I hardly even talked to other people in the 3 first years of elementary school. I just didn't fit in.

    As for the ISTj description... The body posture description is very wrong. "ISTjs try always to be punctual " Try as I might, I always fail to be punctual. "are not supporters of unproved ideas or theories and will hesitate in undertaking uncertain projects." wrong, although I wouldn't take huge risks without backup ideas. etc... there are so many things that fit but so many huge things that don't fit at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Not necessarily a real INTj would take more tests. I'd say an INTj knows what he/she knows and what doesn't. I only took one test - on socionics.com - and I knew that was me. Then reading a lot on the forum it only confirmed everything.
    I have taken practically every personality test on the internet At least all I could get my hands on. I've been doing online tests for as long as I remember using the internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Do INTJs identify more with (1) or with (2):

    (1)
    -almost always chooses solitary activities
    -prefers to be alone


    (2)-odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
    -ideas of reference
    I really don't think that this would be the way to make the distinction between INTj and INTp. I see the difference the most in the way they live their life in one certain aspect - INTjs are specialist-type and INTps are the opposite. INTps learn fast and rather practically. They will find out what they need to know. And they will change these needs quite often. They can try very different jobs for short periods of time. They will excel in about 2 years. After that it's just routine. They might find a new interesting job after that. INTjs on the other hand see everything as a system and therefore are practically unable to quickly master a new job. They are more likely to carefully study everything about one subject and become supreme at it. They will be the specialist in their field. They will know everything that is logically connected to the subject. For INTjs, the system behind every principle is so huge, that it would be pointless to learn many different areas. There is a bigger chance of success if you just stick to one thing and know more about it than others. Or at least that's the theory in this household (me and a INTp).
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    kristiina, although i don't really disagree with the gist of your post, i do vehemently disagree with one bit of it. i can, too, master the basics of a new job quickly! much faster than an average employee. became important in 6 months and indispensable in a year. i still approach it as a systemic exercise in understanding, but dammit i can do that really fast. :wink:

    of course, some people do insist that i am INTp, never mind that half of gamma irritates me in real life.

    surely it's not realistic to expect everyone to match the type descriptions exactly? it's like taxonomy, the descriptions are like photos. helpful, but not the last word. the functions arrangements and their interactions are the bits that are supposed to really confirm whether you are a certain type or not. but, in my case, the photos match the specimen, so to speak. i've usually tested INTJ in most MBTI tests, once or twice INFJ and INTP, once ENTJ and once ISTJ. i generally test INTj for socionics, and most importantly the rest of it fits too - function order fits me, my interactions with other types, my friends, my family, the types of people who annoy me at work, the types who don't....

    there are some people i don't think are INTj, but since i don't know them personally, don't see them offline and all that, i can't be sure. so i won't dictate to them whether they are or not. doing that seems so Se to me - so presumptous and pushy and blinkered.

    as for dioklecian's question, i don't think i can pick one. maybe the second one more. but again, i don't see exactly how it can be used as a determining question. if the more taciturn logical subtype INTjs would come in here, maybe they can say whether they might not believe in clairvoyance compared to the intuitive subtypes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Hmm, or maybe we don't all perfectly match the given stereotypes. As someone else pointed out somewhere else, a lot of the description is based on generalizations of the types -- and may not be entirely true for every individual of that type.
    Diana, precisely because the descriptions are generalizations it should fit for every individual of that type. Socionics seeks to identify those traits that are stable during the entire lifetime of that person and valid for all individuals.


    p.s. Have you considered you are INFj? it's the Look-a-like with INTj that probublee confused you.

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    Well dunno if this helps but when I was testing myself I was coming out ENFP. When I had a professional do it through work, I was an ENTP but just barely E.

    At first, I thought my personality may have just changed over time but the more I thought about it, I realized, I was always an ENTP. But being an ENTP isn't very acceptable for females so I acted out like an ENFP because that's the only way it seemed people would accept me.

    I felt guilty and ashamed of my ENTPness because everytime I tried to express that side of me people would say "that's like a man" grrrrrrr. I hate that.

    So basically, I think that people can be pressured from the peers to act enough like another type that they even see themselves that way. But deep down...you are who you are.
    Polly
    ENTP

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    Jung is going to smite thee, Diana, for going against the words of the Holy Church of Socionics!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Hmm, or maybe we don't all perfectly match the given stereotypes. As someone else pointed out somewhere else, a lot of the description is based on generalizations of the types -- and may not be entirely true for every individual of that type.
    Diana, precisely because the descriptions are generalizations it should fit for every individual of that type. Socionics seeks to identify those traits that are stable during the entire lifetime of that person and valid for all individuals.


    p.s. Have you considered you are INFj? it's the Look-a-like with INTj that probublee confused you.
    Yes, I am most likely INFj -- but still don't think that any of the type descriptions are a perfect match.
    none would ever be a perfect match, it would be scarey if it did match exactly. considering the traits are based off of many people that jung researched. mine is about 60% accurate, but more things on INTJ then on other things. i do many sensing things as well, so ISTJ also fits - it all depends on what i'm doing.

    choose the one that fits best. the system works better than those eenagram things - i'm a 4 with a 5 wing, a touch of 8 maybe some 9 - it get's silly, looks like Mc Donalds menu.

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    Check this out guys and thank you for all your replies. I am just looking at my type and maybe some of you need to look at yours too:


    http://www.pipeline.com/~dada3zen/sc...a_disorder.htm
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    And do you INTJs agree with this:

    Suspiciousness, ideas of reference, illusions; "cognitive slippage," a disturbing sense of discontinuity with respect to time and person; tendency to misinterpret: reacts to symbols, to possible meanings, rather than facts; poor at generalizing from one situation to another analogous one; concreteness, and humorlessness; conviction of unlikeablity (Stone, pp. 2719, 2221, 2725, 2726).

    I feel like an alien in a frightening environment.
    Since the world is dangerous, you have to watch out for yourself at all times.
    There are reasons for everything. Things don't happen by chance.
    Sometimes my inner feelings are an indication of what is going to happen.
    Relationships are threatening.
    I am defective.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    ok, i'll bite.

    suspiciousness, yes. i tend to see a whole lot of ways things can be meant or a whole lot of different motives that can apply to the same action, over and above what would be assumed. this makes me a somewhat suspicious person. am training myself to be more comfortable giving people the benefit of the doubt.

    a disturbing sense of discontinuity with respect to time and person - i think so. my perception of time gets easily haywire, and i don't usually feel involved in the 'moment'. it's sort of detached.

    reacts to symbols, to possible meanings, rather than facts - yes... obviously to any self-respecting intuitive, the interpretation of facts depends upon the context or system it resides in. see 'suspiciousness'.

    poor at generalizing from one situation to another analogous one - no. analogy is a strong point of mine, actually, and i make accurate ones. and when i have to make an inaccurate one i know where it is inaccurate and not a perfect analogy.

    humorlessness - no

    conviction of unlikeablity - you mean, unlikeable by others? yes


    I feel like an alien in a frightening environment. depends on the environment. used to be kind of true, in general. not so much nowadays, after acquiring skill in wearing many masks.

    Since the world is dangerous, you have to watch out for yourself at all times. kind of, but i'm not obsessed by it.

    There are reasons for everything. Things don't happen by chance. - hmm... what if, i do think there is such a thing as randomness and chance, but that chance is there for a reason?

    Sometimes my inner feelings are an indication of what is going to happen. sometimes? then yes. it's not nearly 100% accurate though, so there's always that annoying second-guessing every time i get something like a gut feeling. strong feelings mess with the gut feeling, and unlike making conclusions and evaluations, i can't quite separate emotions from gut feeling with the same skill as i separate them from my thinking processes.

    Relationships are threatening. well... it's more like relationships necessitate exposing your vulnerable areas.

    I am defective - yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Jung is going to smite thee, Diana, for going against the words of the Holy Church of Socionics!


    you've got all =P, Jadae


    p.s please change back the colour of your avatar, it's irritating me

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    What is the issue with calling INTps contrary?

    I think both types are fairly idiosyncratic, but for different reasons.

    INTps seem more contrary to me, but maybe that's because I am INTj

    anyone going to respond to this?
    I have no idea what you mean by idioscycratic or contrary. Put these terms in context please.
    INTj
    "... the present is too much for the senses, too crowding, too confusing, too present to imagine" - RF

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Not necessarily a real INTj would take more tests. I'd say an INTj knows what he/she knows and what doesn't. I only took one test - on socionics.com - and I knew that was me. Then reading a lot on the forum it only confirmed everything.
    Agreed. But I took 2: one was jung-typology (or something similar sounding) and the other was socionics.com. However, I became completely sure of my type after reading in debth about socionics and intertype relations. I began to start typing other people (presumably successfully) and I was able to not our interactions.

    I think its superficial to believe that people mistype as INTj because they like the title "mastermind". Although, I admit I thought it was pretty cool when I saw that somewhere I think it's mainly the people that pick out a few sentences from a type description and say "that's me".

    I showed my dad a few personality descriptions - I had him take a test. He read a few and said, oh - thats your uncle right there. His assumptions were based on a few specially selected sentences from a type description. I finally pointed out what I think my uncle is and he agreed with that too - which doesn't say anything of course (but I believe I am right).

    What I'm trying to say:
    In order for a type description to be useful, you must read the ENTIRE description (as well as many others). Then form a model of that type in your head. The model is the key thing - it is all the attributes as a whole - rather than a single detail by itself.

    One person mentioned having to fit 5-15 of the details of a description. However, I don't even think that would be entirely accurate (although it would obviously increase the chances of typing correctly). For instance, I could easily find highly specific situations that I act a certain way. Those highly specific situations can be found in almost any type description.

    The whole idea is to see the forest instead of the trees.
    INTj
    "... the present is too much for the senses, too crowding, too confusing, too present to imagine" - RF

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    I found a great site that displays people taking a superficial reading of the INTj type description. Granted, I would think most people that posted on this site aren't actually into the whole personality theory thing - they just thought it would be fun to take a test.

    http://bloginality.love-productions.com/intj.php
    INTj
    "... the present is too much for the senses, too crowding, too confusing, too present to imagine" - RF

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlendieOfIndie
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    What is the issue with calling INTps contrary?

    I think both types are fairly idiosyncratic, but for different reasons.

    INTps seem more contrary to me, but maybe that's because I am INTj

    anyone going to respond to this?
    I have no idea what you mean by idioscycratic or contrary. Put these terms in context please.

    contrary, as in, opposing others for the sake of opposition. Deliberately choosing to be different

    idiosyncratic, as in, being unlike other people for the sake of being one's self. An oddness that comes from being different, though not necessarily intentionally so.




    I see INTP(p)s as being somewhat contrary. The "critical"ness that often comes from them is a slight illumiation of this, perhaps.

    Both types seem idiosyncratic to an extent. It seems as though INTp types are idiosyncratic via being contrary, where as INTjs are more secularly idiosyncratic. Does that make any sense?

    Maybe it's just because of my experiences that I say/see it like that. I don't know. It's like..... the difference between seeing something, and then reacting to be different, to be contrary... as opposed to being different before that stimulus comes in to play. The way I say it here, it sounds like an internal / external deal. I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with j and p specifics?


    Well, I do not think I've clarified it much better, but that is what came out right now. I'm busy studying for something else and I must leave shortly, so take it for what it is.

    I wonder what people think about what I have said here
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Jung is going to smite thee, Diana, for going against the words of the Holy Church of Socionics!


    you've got all =P, Jadae


    p.s please change back the colour of your avatar, it's irritating me

    lol someone really did try to make a church of socionics. Anyways, I'll change my av later. Im sure Hugo is eyeing my new one now anyways...

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