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Thread: How do SEIs-ISFps handle anger and conflict?

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Default How do SEIs-ISFps handle anger and conflict?

    I have noticed that my extreme aversion to conflict is lessening. When I was younger, I used to you know, make mistakes. And after that, I used to ask my mother "Are you mad at me?" She always told me that that was my favorite saying, "Are you mad at me?" When I was in second grade, I got a detention because I used to be a discipline problem. I faked sick so I could go home and not serve the detention, so my parents would not be angry at me for being bad. Now, it isn't that bad, although when arguments get too heated, I tend to back ahead, recoiling from the negative emotion. I still hate to click on messages that I know will be negative on the forum, but I'm getting better at it.

    Does anyone else have any experience with SEI and their massive failure at anger/conflict?
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Maybe as you're getting older you're giving less and less of a fuck about what other people think.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Maybe as you're getting older you're giving less and less of a fuck about what other people think.
    that is quite possible. I like getting older, but I wish you wouldn't have all the responsibilities so you could just swing around, doing whatever pleases you.
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    sigh. both my father and my son and one of my friends are SEI so I have plenty of experience. My son will actually cry before I say anything, when he knows he's done something wrong. He intensely dislikes conflict. The adult SEIs I know enjoy using denial as a way to deal with reality that they find unpalatable. "Nothing's wrong! There is no conflict!" Denial takes many forms: watching too much tv, eating too much, distraction in any form, assuring themselves that everything is okay. Etcetera. They don't seem to be able to handle looking deep inside and facing the hurts and feelings that are there or facing the disappointments of others. They much prefer to dwell on the light side of things. Which can frankly be a bit frustrating to me. They have to come to conclusions on their own, in their own time. My Si subtype friend would go so far as to say "peace at any price". Which I really feel is over the top. But that's a 9 for ya.

    That said, they are adorable. I love SEIs. I always always will.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    that is quite possible. I like getting older, but I wish you wouldn't have all the responsibilities so you could just swing around, doing whatever pleases you.
    you don't have to take on most responsibilities... most of the time you take them on because society says you "should".
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    sigh. both my father and my son and one of my friends are SEI so I have plenty of experience. My son will actually cry before I say anything, when he knows he's done something wrong. He intensely dislikes conflict. The adult SEIs I know enjoy using denial as a way to deal with reality that they find unpalatable. "Nothing's wrong! There is no conflict!" Denial takes many forms: watching too much tv, eating too much, distraction in any form, assuring themselves that everything is okay. Etcetera. They don't seem to be able to handle looking deep inside and facing the hurts and feelings that are there or facing the disappointments of others. They much prefer to dwell on the light side of things. Which can frankly be a bit frustrating to me. They have to come to conclusions on their own, in their own time. My Si subtype friend would go so far as to say "peace at any price". Which I really feel is over the top. But that's a 9 for ya.

    That said, they are adorable. I love SEIs. I always always will.
    What is a challenge is coming to terms with the facts that all is not peachy, and yes, I agree. One would rather ignore the hurtful feelings than actually get dirty with it, and feel even more hurt(possibly). But as time has progressed, I have realized that people in and of themselves are not afraid to hurt you if they see fit. Maybe it is just their age, but we are seeing a very self-centered folk about this time. I should watch myself more on how I interact.

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    you don't have to take on most responsibilities... most of the time you take them on because society says you "should".
    Well, of course. And in order to feel that I am accomplishing something, I take on more and more responsibilities.
    D-SEI 9w1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    Well, of course. And in order to feel that I am accomplishing something, I take on more and more responsibilities.
    Is taking more and more responsibilities inherent in you feeling like you're accomplishing something?

    I mean it's one thing to feel like you're accomplishing something; it's another to actually accomplish something as best as you can.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Is taking more and more responsibilities inherent in you feeling like you're accomplishing something?

    I mean it's one thing to feel like you're accomplishing something; it's another to actually accomplish something as best as you can.
    I prefer feeling like I am accomplishing something. I try my best at what I do, yes.
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    ISFps are not into conflicts: if there is something they don't like about anybody, they get away from him/her. As simple as that.

    Anyway, ISFps can be very aggressive. I've seen ISFps fighting in nightclubs against stronger guys. They have guts!
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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Maybe as you're getting older you're giving less and less of a fuck about what other people think.
    Nope. Kam I know exactly what you mean and also wondered why it was lessening.

    I've come to the conclusion that conflict in certain circumstances is unavoidable and the best thing to do to get it over with is take a big breath and leap into it, suck up the feelings of "Oh shit the world is exploding eeep" and try to stay calm so you can work through the problem in real time as it unfolds.

    Now that bit I actually suck at majorly, but I know that if I delude myself into thinking that I will take in all of the social details and nuances in body language for interests' sake in the moment, I can then mull it all over later to come to a nice little resolution in the nearer future, after the fallout. You know, see it from everyone's perspective as much as possible and then slowly bring whoever is involved around again with a subtle and peaceful resolution.

    That's why I suddenly got courage anyway

    Note: It's probably easier for Fe subtypes too, lol!
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    I am also getting better at facing conflict in my old age. Though it's more about developing tactics rather than learning to like it. I used to try and prepare myself emotionally by thinking of the worst possible reactions from the person .. but that just ends up psyching me out more often that not. Iíve tried reducing things to a clinical level and extraverting myself Ė disconnecting myself from my emotions and senses and just doing what I have to in a cold and rational way (Muahahaha!). But thatís hard to pull off, because itís purely superficial - things are still affecting me behind the scenes, and I have to use all my energy to keep the floodwaters back .. which leaves me with zero mental energy. Which means I canít argue rationally anyway lol, and just stand there taking it. Though if someone so much as touches me, I explode. :0

    So now, I just take a big breath and say "this is going to be horrible!" and jump into the fray. In the midst of it, I find I deal with things rather well.
    Last edited by Rubicon; 01-14-2009 at 03:32 PM.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Jem, you're Si subtype, yes? You remind me of my friend.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Jem, you're Si subtype, yes?
    probably
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    And a 9!
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    And a 9!
    yes, definitely!
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    I used to have a lot more trouble dealing with conflict when I was younger, but I think as LokiV said, it becomes easier when you're older. However, I think it has more to do with independence than with age. If you have a natural aversion to conflict, being dependent on people or their opinions of your makes it really difficult to deal with conflict, because your fear of consequence is greater. As you get older, more independent, and less reliant on the opinions or material contribution of others, it becomes a little easier to deal with conflict.

    For instance, I had a lot of trouble arguing with my dad or standing up to him growing up. Any kind of confrontation with him would inevitably end in tears. However, now that I no longer live with him or rely on him for things, it's easier for me to face conflict and just tell him what I think. While I don't won't to disappoint any of my parents, it's easier for me to draw lines now that I'm living on my own, perhaps because I know that I have somewhere else to go if the conflict becomes too much for me to handle.
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    hmmm, I hate conflict. Am I supposed to be the dual that can handle it?
    ILE - Ti.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I think duals really have the same "goals" in mind; that's why they're duals!
    right, I was going to say... I don't think there's much conflict BETWEEN duals anyway. But should there be outside conflict, I think the ILE can make the environment safe for the SEI to deal with it in his/her own way. For example, giving the SEI space and time and understanding. But yeah, no one likes conflict! (do they?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    But yeah, no one likes conflict! (do they?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I think duals really have the same "goals" in mind; that's why they're duals!
    Yay!

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    But should there be outside conflict, I think the ILE can make the environment safe for the SEI to deal with it in his/her own way. For example, giving the SEI space and time and understanding.[/SIZE]
    I guess I could handle that. I have been known to aggressively attack those causing conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    But yeah, no one likes conflict! (do they?)
    :/ If only that were true
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    right, I was going to say... I don't think there's much conflict BETWEEN duals anyway. But should there be outside conflict, I think the ILE can make the environment safe for the SEI to deal with it in his/her own way. For example, giving the SEI space and time and understanding. But yeah, no one likes conflict! (do they?)
    My mom (EIE) doesn't mind conflict at all... She doesn't create it, but I think the idea of it excites her in a way. It's kind of strange. She can be very aggressive.
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calenwen View Post
    My mom (EIE) doesn't mind conflict at all... She doesn't create it, but I think the idea of it excites her in a way. It's kind of strange. She can be very aggressive.
    lol, I relate. yay for betas.

    I tend to think that Fe makes for a focus on certain reactions which we don't necessarily attach ourselves to, which combined with Se, create that competitive aspect or whatever. Because whenever conflict happens, I just see it as people finally being open about something. And it feels lively, to not have to hide behind decorum, and see where people really stand. But I find that a lot of people can think I'm trying to start a conflict when I'm really just probing Whatever.
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    lol, I relate. yay for betas.

    I tend to think that Fe makes for a focus on certain reactions which we don't necessarily attach ourselves to, which combined with Se, create that competitive aspect or whatever. Because whenever conflict happens, I just see it as people finally being open about something. And it feels lively, to not have to hide behind decorum, and see where people really stand. But I find that a lot of people can think I'm trying to start a conflict when I'm really just probing Whatever.
    Right, and I see why you (possibly) might think that avoidance of conflict is simply not caring if people are open or not. But I think you have this openness and lack of decorum without it coming to blows(figuratively). I am all for defending your personal values or whatever, but a lot of the time I think my avoidance of conflict/arguing stems from feeling insecure in my arguing ability. And strrng, you make these probing motions, and (imo) you are trying to be aggressive and pick a fight with someone even when you say you are not. Must be the black hole.
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    SEIs are just happy-go-lucky easy-going people-persons. My younger brother is an SE-Fe. My older brother's boss is a LIE. They met, and I mentioned that my brother's nickname was "Squishy." The LIE called my brother "Squishy" for the rest of the day and seemed to get a kick out of it. My brother likes attention and his nickname, so they got along great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    Right, and I see why you (possibly) might think that avoidance of conflict is simply not caring if people are open or not.
    Depends. With the deltas in my family, it can definitely feel at times like they're trying to uphold some implicit rules. With my ESFj mom, it can seem like she just wants to maintain the stability in the atmosphere. But, obviously sometimes it is rational to not escalate things, simply out of not wanting to waste energy. Especially with more productive uses. I've found that when I exercise consistently, I am less prone to incendiary outbursts and the like.

    But I think you have this openness and lack of decorum without it coming to blows(figuratively).
    Definitely. Partly from the person like me understanding the line between openness and aggression, and partly from the other party understanding that a little emotion isn't a threat.

    I am all for defending your personal values or whatever, but a lot of the time I think my avoidance of conflict/arguing stems from feeling insecure in my arguing ability.
    You mean like a dialogue or intellectual debate? Or just the ability to go blow for blow.

    And strrng, you make these probing motions, and (imo) you are trying to be aggressive and pick a fight with someone even when you say you are not.
    lol, what makes you say that? Maybe your aversion to conflict is getting the better of you. The thing is, I sometimes will probe aggressively and maintain good intentions simultaneously; it's like a wishbone, and one side typically breaks more than the other, depending on the person.

    Must be the black hole.
    You mean my soul?
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Depends. With the deltas in my family, it can definitely feel at times like they're trying to uphold some implicit rules. With my ESFj mom, it can seem like she just wants to maintain the stability in the atmosphere. But, obviously sometimes it is rational to not escalate things, simply out of not wanting to waste energy. Especially with more productive uses. I've found that when I exercise consistently, I am less prone to incendiary outbursts and the like.
    Yeah, that can have a huge effect on your mental state.

    Definitely. Partly from the person like me understanding the line between openness and aggression, and partly from the other party understanding that a little emotion isn't a threat.
    It's all good if I can get in on the debate.

    You mean like a dialogue or intellectual debate? Or just the ability to go blow for blow.
    The former, definitely. I am quite capable of talking back and forth with someone in a louder-than-normal voice, but when it comes to an intellectual debate, I find myself lacking, like there is someone or something that doesn't allow me to articulate my thoughts in an articulate manner, even though I am pretty sure I am capable of it.

    lol, what makes you say that? Maybe your aversion to conflict is getting the better of you. The thing is, I sometimes will probe aggressively and maintain good intentions simultaneously; it's like a wishbone, and one side typically breaks more than the other, depending on the person.
    It is that I see this "probing aggressively" as a sign that you are looking for a debate even though that might not be your intention, as you said, you are either looking for clarification on an issue or you are trying to get people to be more open. Either way you risk a debate/argument. Now for me and my argument phobia, that is a dicey proposition, but you have proved time and time again you have no problem with that.
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    yeah, now that I think of it, my EIE aunt doesn't mind conflict at all. I don't like it, generally speaking. That's not to say I don't enjoy a discussion where the parties feel differently. As long as it's civil. but yelling and crap like that, uh, no.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    Yeah, that can have a huge effect on your mental state.
    Word. I'll probably start up again once I get bored of smoking :/

    The former, definitely. I am quite capable of talking back and forth with someone in a louder-than-normal voice, but when it comes to an intellectual debate, I find myself lacking, like there is someone or something that doesn't allow me to articulate my thoughts in an articulate manner, even though I am pretty sure I am capable of it.
    Interesting. I can't say I have this problem too often, although there are certain people who seem to thrive on immediately-oriented debates, which I get tired of after a while and lose focus.

    It is that I see this "probing aggressively" as a sign that you are looking for a debate even though that might not be your intention, as you said, you are either looking for clarification on an issue or you are trying to get people to be more open. Either way you risk a debate/argument. Now for me and my argument phobia, that is a dicey proposition, but you have proved time and time again you have no problem with that.
    That's true. I guess it's a matter of how much you're willing to risk to 'get the information' you want. And also, once that line is flirted with, I suppose one can easily jump to either side at convenience when confronted on their behavior. Self-control ftw.
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    you are wise strrng.
    D-SEI 9w1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    you are wise strrng.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by calenwen View Post
    My mom (EIE) doesn't mind conflict at all... She doesn't create it, but I think the idea of it excites her in a way. It's kind of strange. She can be very aggressive.
    I know an EIE pretty well who tends to *create* a lot of conflict.
    ILE - Ti.

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    damn all this conflict.
    D-SEI 9w1

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    Default When ISFps go on offensive

    Has anyone ever seen a pissed off SEI? What do they do? Do they really express it, or do they find other ways of showing it, like violently cleaning the house?
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Has anyone ever seen a pissed off SEI? What do they do? Do they really express it, or do they find other ways of showing it, like violently cleaning the house?
    If it's on the internet, outright antagonism isn't impossible I think. Not using myself as an example.

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    Passive. Aggressive.

    *shudder*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Passive. Aggressive.

    *shudder*
    Anger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    I dunno a lot of SEIs IRL, but thinking of the ones I do, I think they're more likely to become disappointed than angry, and a lot of times their anger isn't strongly asserted.

    But I suspect they can FExplode too. Meh, in the end, any type can go apeshit if you push them enough.
    EIE-Ni

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    Meh, in the end, any type can go apeshit if you push them enough.
    Truth.

    I haven't seen a particularly angry SEI that I can think of, but one SEI I know pretty well was arguing about how he didn't want this one guy (probably EIE, but in any case it was an Ne/Si vs. Ni/Se conflict) to have a position in a group, and he became very animated, and used his hands a lot and emphasized his words really strongly. Very Fe but not in the same outrageous, semi-manipulative EIE/IEI way. (Granted, he wasn't trying THAT hard either). He also reminded me of myself somewhat in that he stopped being quite as diplomatic and was more, "Guys, let's be honest here, x has caused a lot of problems, and hurt a lot of people's feelings," etc. So that's the closest thing I've seen to an actively angry SEI.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Passive. Aggressive.

    *shudder*
    Pretty much. I remember my SEI bf, from back in the day, used to talk about people behind their backs a lot, but would never actually confront, said people, about how she felt
    EII INFj
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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Has anyone ever seen a pissed off SEI? What do they do? Do they really express it, or do they find other ways of showing it, like violently cleaning the house?
    My desire is to "express it", but pathetically, I usually feel the most unable to when I really want to. I don't care about confrontation etc when I'm like that - strength of feeling trumps a desire for peace any day. It's just the whole "not wanting to look like an unarticulate fool" thing that gets in the way. :-p

    Hmm examples .. the last time I can think of, what basically transpired was me being lectured at, me feeling my point was being completely missed, me feeling extremely frustrated at this fact, me repeatedly saying "That doesn't make any sense!", me feeling frustrated at not being able to articulate why it didn't make any sense, me bursting into tears, me feeling embarrassed at bursting into tears, etc. Another time, I heard my mother and brother fighting excessively so I ran upstairs at full speed without thinking for a moment, shouted something at my ILE brother, my emotion startled him, his reaction sobered me immediately, I burst into tears, I exited. erm haha But yeah, in general, my desire is just to express my emotion sanely. If I feel I can't or that there's no point, then I try to get rid of my emotion in physical ways - yeah. :-p Things greatly depend on how the person reacts to what I'm saying though.

    I don't think I'm passive-aggressive. I'm either passive or a weak version of aggressive. :-p If I'm showing any visible signs of frustration, I'd love for the issue to be addressed even if I don't initiate things. If I don't look frustrated, hey I'm fine - I can deal with it myself. :-p
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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