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Thread: Sleep

  1. #1
    Creepy-

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    I was thinking about this bc I wanted to go and visit my mom the other day, but then I realized that she would be tired from work and probably going to bed soon, so I didn't.

    Do you ever feel like sleep is a waste of time? Sometimes I do. But I said that to a friend of mine, and he looked at me like I was crazy. He’s ENTp, which made me wonder if Si-dual-seeking had to do w his reaction [he's often sleep-deprived bc of his always-going mind].

    What I meant wasn’t that I don’t enjoy sleep or that I don’t feel refreshed by it [I certainly do!], but that I feel like it’s kind of a shame that so many hours – literally a third of our time – are devoted to it.

    Thoughts?

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    That's the happiest third of my life there. Though, idk, if I didn't have to sleep I'm not sure what I'd do. I mean, I get bored NOW.
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    It's completely a fucking waste of time, and people who enjoy it repulse me. Ye sloth, awaken yonder from the odious quicksand you call a bed, the sonorous self-mutilation you call sleep! Nonsense. I prefer to go as long as possible without sleeping, ignore it at all costs, and when I do decide to "recharge," set my alarm to keep it below 6 hours, so that I'm not all languid and pathetic when I wake up. Sleep deprivation increases dopamine concentration in the brain as a survival mechanism, and getting less than the "right" amount of sleep injects you with a good type of anxiety, keeping you sharp, alert and active.

    So, yeah. When someone complains about not getting enough sleep, I just laugh.
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    I've often said it's a waste of time. Even on the weekends, I feel guilty if I sleep past 8 am. I typically stick with a 12-6am sleep schedule and it's just right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    That's the happiest third of my life there. Though, idk, if I didn't have to sleep I'm not sure what I'd do. I mean, I get bored NOW.
    Yeah, sleep is definitely pleasant - I didn't mean that by any means. Maybe if sleep was optional... but then I guess people who chose to sleep would be deemed lazy.

    As for what to do w all that time, I can think of all kinds of things... then again I'm not doing a lot of those things with the 2/3 of waking time I have, so it's probably unreasonable to say I would do them if I didn't need sleep

  6. #6
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    You people with your ability to sleep normally.

    Apparently true geniuses aren't allowed to have a functional biological clock.

    So, I get jetlagged, and I've been awake for two days.

    This thread is like a sick joke |:

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    It's completely a fucking waste of time, and people who enjoy it repulse me. Ye sloth, awaken yonder from the odious quicksand you call a bed, the sonorous self-mutilation you call sleep! Nonsense. I prefer to go as long as possible without sleeping, ignore it at all costs, and when I do decide to "recharge," set my alarm to keep it below 6 hours, so that I'm not all languid and pathetic when I wake up. Sleep deprivation increases dopamine concentration in the brain as a survival mechanism, and getting less than the "right" amount of sleep injects you with a good type of anxiety, keeping you sharp, alert and active.

    So, yeah. When someone complains about not getting enough sleep, I just laugh.
    Wow - that's some vehement criticism of sleep-lovers.

    Interesting approach. I think you may be on to something, actually. That said, I don't think I would ever want to live that way, though - tbh it sounds very unpleasant. How long have you been going like that, and how apparent to you is your natural-dopamine high?



    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I've often said it's a waste of time.
    Well, I'm glad to find I'm not the only one who thinks this.

    Even on the weekends, I feel guilty if I sleep past 8 am. I typically stick with a 12-6am sleep schedule and it's just right.
    Me too. The last few weeks I have not been as regular w my sleep, but I stick to getting around 6-8 hours [much more and I feel "off," though I can go for a while on less than that]. Plus occasional naps
    Last edited by female; 01-13-2009 at 01:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    Wow - that's some vehement criticism of sleep-lovers.
    They deserve all of it. Infidels.

    Interesting approach. I think you may be on to something, actually. That said, I don't think I would ever want to live that way, though - tbh it sounds very unpleasant. How long have you been going like that, and how apparent to you is your natural-dopamine high?
    It's not unpleasant. The only unpleasant thing is feeling bound to sleep. I've been going like this ever since last year, basically. It's a very rhythmical thing. Once you get past the one day barrier, you develop an ability to get into a groove with things, and gradually increase the time you can stay up. It's all mental, too. I don't really apply any schedule to it; I just rely on the fact that I know I really don't want to sleep, and go from there. I may stay up for a day, sleep 5 hours, stay up 18 more hours, sleep 6, etc. If there was some cycle to it, I would probably aim for 2 day intervals with 6-8 hour rests in between. And when you add exercise into the mix, it gets interesting. It perpetuates the energy, but also has a sort of 'empty' effect. I actually remember falling asleep during a workout before. Although I haven't done that stuff lately, instead relying on whimsical calisthenic workouts and black n milds. I think most would find my lifestyle "unhealthy," but whatever.
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    I'm frustrated that I have to sleep, I mean in the sense that it's a necessity that can't be avoided. So, I largely feel like it is a significant amount of time that can be used otherwise. Although, I will say that I have a difficult time waking up really early in the morning and getting an early start to the day. It generally doesn't take me long to get going in the morning once I am out of bed, but sometimes it's hard to get started.

    Like, my pattern these days goes something like, I will usually stay up on average until about 1:00 or so and then I wake up around anywhere between 6:45 and 7:00. Well, that's actually partially true. I first wake up at 6:00, then walk over to my cell phone to turn off the alarm, fall asleep on the couch until about 6:30 (sometimes with the tv on, sometimes not) when the 2nd alarm goes off and then snooze a few times which is typically close to 7:00.

    I honestly don't feel much different during the day if I get 3 hours of sleep and if I get 7 or more hours. The only time I feel like I'm not with it or my body isn't doing what my mind wants it to do is if I get less than 3 hours of sleep.

    Anyway, yeah, the amount of time sleeping largely does feel like a wasted block of time as far as utility goes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    It's completely a fucking waste of time, and people who enjoy it repulse me. Ye sloth, awaken yonder from the odious quicksand you call a bed, the sonorous self-mutilation you call sleep! Nonsense. I prefer to go as long as possible without sleeping, ignore it at all costs, and when I do decide to "recharge," set my alarm to keep it below 6 hours, so that I'm not all languid and pathetic when I wake up. Sleep deprivation increases dopamine concentration in the brain as a survival mechanism, and getting less than the "right" amount of sleep injects you with a good type of anxiety, keeping you sharp, alert and active.

    So, yeah. When someone complains about not getting enough sleep, I just laugh.
    What the hell? You're not a robot. Or a machine. You need sleep, plain and simple. Too little and your senses start being dulled, too much and your body doesn't wanna jumpstart back to "doing shit" mode.

    Life isn't about how much any sort of "stuff" you can cram into life, like cars, skills, or drugs.

    I love my sleep. From the lowliest beggar to the mightiest king, every man enjoys a good sleep.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    i absolutely adore sleep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    What the hell? You're not a robot. Or a machine. You need sleep, plain and simple. Too little and your senses start being dulled, too much and your body doesn't wanna jumpstart back to "doing shit" mode.
    Sleeping on a regular schedule for an extended duration feels more robotic to me than doing it minimally and haphazardly. And I have never felt my senses dulled from sleep deprivation; quite the opposite, actually. And yeah, after a while you burn out, hence why I mentioned the short naps at intervals. Saying "you need sleep, plain and simple" is just a retarded way of imposing your opinion on someone else. So, if it works for you, fine. But I don't see the point in actually debating it.

    Life isn't about how much any sort of "stuff" you can cram into life, like cars, skills, or drugs.
    To you. Others need more frequent stimulation.

    I love my sleep. From the lowliest beggar to the mightiest king, every man enjoys a good sleep.
    Why do you have to make it some objective fact? Don't you deltas preach that whole individualism shit? If you love your sleep, fine. But I don't see why that suddenly means everyone else "should."
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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    Do you ever feel like sleep is a waste of time?
    Most of the time. But ask me when I'm really tired; then I'm going to say that's the only thing I ever want to do
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

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    I love sleep. I'd say I'm naturally made to sleep about 10 hours a day. I can do OK on 7 or 8, but I'm a bit on edge. They say that before we had electricity (lights keep us up longer) people would sleep about 10 a night. I think everyone would be less grumpy if that were the case.

    Though I am jealous some of you need only 6 hours...that must be nice. And it gives you an hour or two extra a day...you could totally take up a new hobby in that time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Why do you have to make it some objective fact?
    Perhaps he believes human need/enjoyment for sleep is objective fact?

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Don't you deltas preach that whole individualism shit?
    I like to think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    If you love your sleep, fine. But I don't see why that suddenly means everyone else "should."
    lol, it's not like he wants to 'force' it on you or anything. Just an expression of his puzzlement over how much others, like yourself, devalue it.

    Is it annoying when I butt in like this? I honestly can't tell.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Is it annoying when I butt in like this? I honestly can't tell.
    Heh, no, it's quite helpful especially when you're right on the money.

    I wasn't forcing you or anyone else anything. I never gave you an interger of time that you need to sleep, or even a value. Lots of people do need different amounts of sleep. What I was objecting to was your complete dismissal of sleep and acting like we don't need it to survive. Next you'll tell me taking a shit is a waste of time.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Perhaps he believes human need/enjoyment for sleep is objective fact?
    Perhaps. Erroneously so, if that is the case.

    I like to think so.
    Ok.

    lol, it's not like he wants to 'force' it on you or anything. Just an expression of his puzzlement over how much others, like yourself, devalue it.
    If he's puzzled, he should express puzzlement; not state what 'should' be.

    Is it annoying when I butt in like this? I honestly can't tell.
    Must be the Fe polr! And no, it isn't. Because I've observed you, and don't think that you come bearing any pretenses.
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    sleep is glorious, people. Not too much, mind you. but when you know how much you need, and get it on a regular basis, it becomes almost a medicine for your body AND soul. I can literally feel my subconscious working on things while I'm under and I can wake up feeling like I'm ready to tackle the problem. I simply don't know how people can function without it. Yes, I can understand how it seems like a waste of time. But it's very necessary. Besides, the sheer sensuality of sleep... warmth, smooth sheets, the skin next to you (or not), how can you resist it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Perhaps. Erroneously so, if that is the case.
    It IS a fact, you fuck nut.

    If it isn't, why bother with cat naps? Why not just abandon sleep and have 24/7 consciousness?
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    sleep is glorious, people. Not too much, mind you. but when you know how much you need, and get it on a regular basis, it becomes almost a medicine for your body AND soul. I can literally feel my subconscious working on things while I'm under and I can wake up feeling like I'm ready to tackle the problem. I simply don't know how people can function without it. Yes, I can understand how it seems like a waste of time. But it's very necessary. Besides, the sheer sensuality of sleep... warmth, smooth sheets, the skin next to you (or not), how can you resist it?
    Hmm, never thought of it like this.

    I've always had such a hard time with the idea of sleep. Falling asleep, staying asleep, letting precious time slip away because you're sleeping, etc. It takes me a few hours before I can shut off my brain and really sleep. It just seems so pointless to me aside from the obvious physical need. I just think of all the things I could be doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Hmm, never thought of it like this.

    I've always had such a hard time with the idea of sleep. Falling asleep, staying asleep, letting precious time slip away because you're sleeping, etc. It takes me a few hours before I can shut off my brain and really sleep. It just seems so pointless to me aside from the obvious physical need. I just think of all the things I could be doing.
    well when you get to be my age, it's great to think of all the things you don't HAVE to be doing. lol Seriously though, try reading something boring the next time you can't get to sleep. It will lull your mind away from nagging thoughts and towards the drowsiness that leads to pure bliss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
    What I was objecting to was your complete dismissal of sleep and acting like we don't need it to survive. Next you'll tell me taking a shit is a waste of time.
    I dismissed it from a personal standpoint as something essentially meaningless, but nowhere did I say that it wasn't a survival necessity. Close read before you put words in someone's mouth.

    It IS a fact, you fuck nut.

    If it isn't, why bother with cat naps? Why not just abandon sleep and have 24/7 consciousness?
    Yes, it's a fact that sleep is a survival necessity. But the amount of sleep one needs is far from a fact. And the stance you were taking seemed to be advocating the "normal" amount of sleep as the "right" thing. But now it seems that it was just a reaction to my more extreme post, so whatever. And if I could abandon sleep completely, I would.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I dismissed it from a personal standpoint as something essentially meaningless, but nowhere did I say that it wasn't a survival necessity. Close read before you put words in someone's mouth.
    Listen to what you just said.
    "It's essentially meaningless but haha, oh wait, you'll die if you don't get it". Sure makes a whole lotta sense.

    Yes, it's a fact that sleep is a survival necessity. But the amount of sleep one needs is far from a fact.
    I never gave you an amount. Everyone's sleep cycles are different. But what is a fact is that everyone DOES need a minimal amount, whatever that amount is.

    And the stance you were taking seemed to be advocating the "normal" amount of sleep as the "right" thing.
    Incorrect. Try again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Listen to what you just said.
    "It's essentially meaningless but haha, oh wait, you'll die if you don't get it". Sure makes a whole lotta sense.
    Are you unable to discriminate between a personal opinion and an objective fact? I said that it's meaningless to me. I then said that it is a survival necessity. So is eating. That doesn't mean everyone appreciates it. Fucking duh.

    I never gave you an amount. Everyone's sleep cycles are different. But what is a fact is that everyone DOES need a minimal amount, whatever that amount is.
    Right, everyone needs a minimal amount. I'm not disputing that. I already explained the reason for the miscommunication in the previous post.

    Incorrect. Try again.
    I said "seemed." But, taken in light of the tone of my post, yours was more understandable. Get it?
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    I thought about this some more. I feel indifferent about sleep. It's necessary, but I don't despise it, nor do I enjoy it or share in some sentiments of really enjoying it either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    sleep is glorious, people. Not too much, mind you. but when you know how much you need, and get it on a regular basis, it becomes almost a medicine for your body AND soul. I can literally feel my subconscious working on things while I'm under and I can wake up feeling like I'm ready to tackle the problem. I simply don't know how people can function without it. Yes, I can understand how it seems like a waste of time. But it's very necessary. Besides, the sheer sensuality of sleep... warmth, smooth sheets, the skin next to you (or not), how can you resist it?
    Oh yeah, redbaron knows what's up. Beautifully put.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    sleep is glorious, people. Not too much, mind you. but when you know how much you need, and get it on a regular basis, it becomes almost a medicine for your body AND soul. I can literally feel my subconscious working on things while I'm under and I can wake up feeling like I'm ready to tackle the problem.
    I agree with this perspective. Let's put it this way: if we were able to automatically feel rested even without sleeping, then I would consider sleep useless. Otherwise, sound sleep seems to be absolutely necessary for a good life.
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    + 1
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    I feel quite strongly about people getting enough sleep. I agree that different people need different amounts of it, including the same person needing differing amounts depending on various circumstances, but everybody needs sleep!

    I was a natural childhood insomniac, and I fucking HATED bedtime. My Mom insisted I go to bed even though there was no way I could go to sleep. Sometimes I would be up for days at a time, but forced to sit in the dark all through the night (she's a REALLY light sleeper; I'd get caught sneaking around quite often and sent back to bed). Sometimes I wonder if I turned out so odd because of how little I slept as a kid ... or as long as I spent staring up at the ceiling swimming with phosphene impressions in the dimness ...

    Then I was in a terrible car crash when I was 19, and I went from sleeping about 4 hours 2-3 times a week ... to needing 10-14 hours of sleep every single day. It was hard for me to adjust; I felt I was living half the life I was before (although also grateful just to be alive). Within about a year, I was reasonably recuperated, and I went back to staying up more than what's considered normal. Although I needed more sleep overall than as a teen, I could still stay up for a few days at a time if I felt like it - roadtrip anyone?

    But by my mid-20's, I had to admit that I paid a heavy toll for not allowing my body to get its regular rest. If I forced myself to stay up all night, the next day would be hell - bad headache, lights look too bright, bad attitude, neither brain nor body as agile as usual. I would keep thinking about how nice it would be when I got caught back up ... and if I kept forcing myself to maintain a high level of activity or heaven forbid stay up another night, it would become practically all my brain would focus on: SLEEP! Oh, god, how I want to sleep! Given my penchant for driving through the night to avoid traffic, it's even come to curtail my travels at times.

    I'm currently (mostly) at peace with this requirement of my body. What's the point in pushing things when I know the consequences will be so inordinate? Luckily, I keep myself pretty healthy in other ways, and I think this is one reason I can usually get away with 6-7 hours, but I often allow myself 8-9 if nothing exciting seems imminent, because then I can do a 4-5 hour night and not be TOTALLY miserable the next day.

    Strrrng, I have to say that your attitude probably has a lot to do with your age. Certainly by the time you hit 30, you'll be asking for a self-induced psychosis if you deny your body enough sleep ... plus, if you look at the studies concluding that sleep deprivation increases stress hormone levels, you might even contribute to making yourself FAT!
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    I was a natural childhood insomniac, and I fucking HATED bedtime. My Mom insisted I go to bed even though there was no way I could go to sleep. Sometimes I would be up for days at a time, but forced to sit in the dark all through the night (she's a REALLY light sleeper; I'd get caught sneaking around quite often and sent back to bed). Sometimes I wonder if I turned out so odd because of how little I slept as a kid ... or as long as I spent staring up at the ceiling swimming with phosphene impressions in the dimness ...
    I was exactly the same way, lol. My mom said I would refuse to lay down and/or scream for hours.

    Strrrng, I have to say that your attitude probably has a lot to do with your age. Certainly by the time you hit 30, you'll be asking for a self-induced psychosis if you deny your body enough sleep ... plus, if you look at the studies concluding that sleep deprivation increases stress hormone levels, you might even contribute to making yourself FAT!
    lol, wouldn't want to be a fatty. But it won't happen if I'm training twice as much because I'm sleeping half as much! woohoo. I agree that it has to do with my age, but I've always hated sleep. If I really need it, fine. But otherwise, it can fuck off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    I'm currently (mostly) at peace with this requirement of my body. What's the point in pushing things when I know the consequences will be so inordinate?
    Yeah i feel like this, and i agree with what tereg said about being indifferent to it. I can physically feel that anxiety that strrrng talks about when i miss out on sleep (in my fingers and toes) and i am not such a fan of it. One day of less sleep i do feel a bit hypo and sharp, but if i keep pushing it i start to feel dull and missing zest.

    I do totally agree that it would be pretty cool if we didn't need sleep at all though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i absolutely adore sleep.
    +100
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    I only think sleep is a wase of time when I remember I'm mortal. Otherwise, sleep is one of the things that make life worth living. Although...I feel extremely miserable when my bed is so cold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    Yeah i feel like this, and i agree with what tereg said about being indifferent to it. I can physically feel that anxiety that strrrng talks about when i miss out on sleep (in my fingers and toes) and i am not such a fan of it. One day of less sleep i do feel a bit hypo and sharp, but if i keep pushing it i start to feel dull and missing zest.

    I do totally agree that it would be pretty cool if we didn't need sleep at all though.
    Here's what you can do: ride the wave of keenness for the 4-6 that it lasts for, after the first 20-24 hours that you've been awake. Then, as it begins abating, do something! Go for a run, drink several cups of coffee, watch an intense movie. That will charge you up and fool your body into thinking it has more energy than it does, thus releasing certain chemicals like dopamine in your brain, and you will feel quite zesty. This will probably last another 6-8 hours, which will land you around 36 hours. At the next sedation period, you can repeat the activity thing, maybe making it a bit less pleasant, since shocking your body through that last haul make take more effort. Once at the 48 mark, feel free to take a nice 6-8 hour nap

    Seriously though. It's all about sharpness and piquancy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Here's what you can do: ride the wave of keenness for the 4-6 that it lasts for, after the first 20-24 hours that you've been awake. Then, as it begins abating, do something! Go for a run, drink several cups of coffee, watch an intense movie. That will charge you up and fool your body into thinking it has more energy than it does, thus releasing certain chemicals like dopamine in your brain, and you will feel quite zesty. This will probably last another 6-8 hours, which will land you around 36 hours. At the next sedation period, you can repeat the activity thing, maybe making it a bit less pleasant, since shocking your body through that last haul make take more effort. Once at the 48 mark, feel free to take a nice 6-8 hour nap

    Seriously though. It's all about sharpness and piquancy.
    Giving out Si advice?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Giving out Si advice?
    lol. just trying to live up to the role function.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    You people with your ability to sleep normally.

    Apparently true geniuses aren't allowed to have a functional biological clock.

    So, I get jetlagged, and I've been awake for two days.

    This thread is like a sick joke |:

    Wow It's like looking into a mirror.

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    I like sleeping when I can actually fall asleep. I'm nocturnal and have bad insomnia. I love the process of falling asleep rather than sitting there in the dark for hours staring at the black abyss - that's mental suffrage. I love my dreams as they are always exciting and vivid and I love being in the state of rest. Sometimes I wish I could sleep my life away forever, but unfortunately that's just not the way life is.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    I consider sleep time to be "well spent". It's about the only thing which prevents me from burning down; my mind seems to never stop.

    One curious thing I've discovered is that if I have a problem and go to sleep, I usually have the answer to it by the time I wake up. And it's probably not a coincidence: I believe that there is not one, but two, persons living inside each brain. The most used (conscious) functions make the conscious person and the least used (unconscious) functions make a hidden dual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I love sleep. I'd say I'm naturally made to sleep about 10 hours a day. I can do OK on 7 or 8, but I'm a bit on edge. They say that before we had electricity (lights keep us up longer) people would sleep about 10 a night. I think everyone would be less grumpy if that were the case.

    Though I am jealous some of you need only 6 hours...that must be nice. And it gives you an hour or two extra a day...you could totally take up a new hobby in that time.
    I'm also like that. I function on a good level when I sleep for more than 8 hours. If it's 7 hours I'm o.k. but if it's less I'm like a zombie all day. I wish I could do with less sleep but my body demands it from me and I do try to
    push my limits sometimes but it always catches up to me in the end. So while I want to be awake and take advantage of my free time, I can't because I'm too tired to do something. I wish I could function on 6 hours of sleep...

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