Discussion on Empowering Si/Ni

[krieger]

Continuation from this thread: http://the16types.info/vbulletin/sho...t=3739&page=34

EJ-Ni types are extremely irresponsible because in their world view it's the other person who carries the risks, the aggressor.

I take it you're saying that because Ej-Ni is Empowering, while the Se of the Ej's dual is Limiting...

I'm always a bit puzzled by how Creating Ni (or Si) is Empowering... It seems to me that it has something to do with using a certain trick without fully understanding how it works behind the screens despite knowing that it is pretty complicated. A kind of behavior that makes people go "do you actually know what you're doing?" to which the answer is "no, exciting isn't it?"... Us Ij's ignore the kind of information involved until we feel we properly understand it, but Ej's have a less restrictive attitude towards it.

Anyway, not meaning to hijack the thread. Keep up the good writing.

I take it you're saying that because Ej-Ni is Empowering, while the Se of the Ej's dual is Limiting...

I'm always a bit puzzled by how Creating Ni (or Si) is Empowering... It seems to me that it has something to do with using a certain trick without fully understanding how it works behind the screens despite knowing that it is pretty complicated. A kind of behavior that makes people go "do you actually know what you're doing?" to which the answer is "no, exciting isn't it?"... Us Ij's ignore the kind of information involved until we feel we properly understand it, but Ej's have a less restrictive attitude towards it.

Anyway, not meaning to hijack the thread. Keep up the good writing.

Nice observation (as most of yours). What happens to me as an ENTj - if you accept this typing, of course - is an even more "interesting" phenomenon. People seem to think that I know what I am doing and that I can give them advice on how to do it, yet I feel like this trust is somewhat pushed or built on me around nothing, since in those situations I rarely feel like I have mastered the task. My understanding of this whole mess was that this chain of events is what pushes the EJ-Ni towards Te (that is, actually acquiring certainty of knowledge in the given task).

A pratical example: an ISFj small business owner that I barely knew asked me to work as a translator for him because "it looked like I could speak and write in english quite well". Yet I held no degrees or titles that certified that I am an expert on the matter. This type of behavior somehow forced me to really learn to speak and write in english decently.

Nice observation (as most of yours). What happens to me as an ENTj - if you accept this typing, of course - is an even more "interesting" phenomenon. People seem to think that I know what I am doing and that I can give them advice on how to do it, yet I feel like this trust is somewhat pushed or built on me around nothing, since in those situations I rarely feel like I have mastered the task. My understanding of this whole mess was that this chain of events is what pushes the EJ-Ni towards Te (that is, actually acquiring certainty of knowledge in the given task).

Yup. And once you've mastered the Te bit and manage to walk through the specifics of a task without even thinking about it and learn to do all sort of frivolous stuff beside it, you know you're concrete Si and you've turned into an ESFj. The funny thing is, once you're at that point you AGAIN don't know what you're doing. Creating/Empowering Si right there.

Thing is, while I can see this stuff happening on a micro-level, I don't see any evidence of a change of the hard-wired type in it. If the person is really an ENTj, s/he will inevitably start "thinking things through" again. The temptation to go deeper into things will just be too great to resist. I've pretty much experienced it.

[krieger]

One thing that sets Empowering Pi apart from Empowering Pe or Empowering Ti is that the former is Creating while the latter are Accepting. As such the former relates to a very daring, dangerous (to the person him/herself) kind of activity, while the latter relates to something relatively safe.

I experience my own Accepting/Empowering function as something I do "because I can and might as well". It gives a very powerful kind of feeling and a sense of freedom and self-posession.

I think Empowering Pi is more immitatory than any Empowering Static function in some way... but I may be biased there.

[Gilly]

Nice pandering.

Maybe you should actually try explaining what you think is going on instead of giving easily interpretable examples.

[krieger]

I am at this point convinced that the Creating/Empowering Introvert Perceiving functions are all about learning to understand things *just* as much as one needs to take care of some practical task one has in mind. One is aware that there is complexity, but not interested enough to go all the way through coming to an understanding. This bit is left to the dual.

In the case of Se/Ni axis types, understanding here refers to more of a practical knowledge...

Creating/Empowering Te on the other hand is about collecting evidence. The data itself isn't convincing so much as the "truth" that it supports or invalidates. "The truth" is Creating/Limiting Ti.

Experimentally:
"Understanding" relates to the Perceiving functions.
"Knowledge" relates to the Judging functions.

To rationals knowledge is immediate (face-value) and understanding is a matter of deep deliberation.
To irrationals understanding is immediate and knowledge is a matter of deep deliberation.