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Thread: Culture and Socionics

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    Default Culture and Socionics

    I want to know if the culture you live in will make you more likely to be a certain personality type. Even more specific would it make you more likely to be perceiver than a judger or a intuitive than a sensor.

    I feel that it in some way, it does have an effect mainly because of the history of the culture. Now, if someone moves to France from the States, then you will more likely gain traits that are American. Though, someone who has been living in Egypt and all of his/her ancestors were from Egypt, it coulf have an effect. I know the matter is much more complicated, but it is very interesting.

    Certain countries like Italy tend to have more intuitives and judgers. Mainly due to its past with Rome. A lot of ideals and morals set up by Italy tend to have this. Their country is so small and they have accomplished so much be cause they of their judging quality. This is all speculation, please don't bash me for it. A lot of innovations have also come from Italy and the Roman Empire trounced others for this reason.

    A country like Mexico will tend to have more perceivers. I'm not sure what kind of personality the Aztecs or Mayans had, but they were were most likely intuitive perceivers in my guess. The Spaniards tend to be sensor perceivers due to their conquering nature, so as a result of this their nation has a lot more perceivers. Their country is laid-back and may explain why it is still a third world country. Once again this is all speculation, please don't bash me for it.

    The reason I can talk about Mexico and Italy is because I am half Mexican and half Italian.

    I've heard that the U.S. tends to have a lot of ISTj's, ESTJ's, ISFj's and ESFJ's and they are known as the backbone of America. For it is hardworking people like them that have made America strong and economically powerful.

    So, my question is does culture have an impact on the personality type you are? On a more touchy matter, does race have an impact on personality type as well? I think it is more cultural personally for personality, since with race it kind of has to do a lot with what the ancestors did a lot of and that is what their talents will have a higher chance of being. All of this is speculation, you are all welcome to introduce your won theories and comment on mine. Thank You.
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    i like what you wrote.

    and the climate is supposedly affecting the personality. Just compare the southern Europe with northern Europe, which is a lot more developed economically

    EDIT: even Italy, compare the economy level in south sunny shores with the north rainy days

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    i like what you wrote.

    and the climate is supposedly affecting the personality. Just compare the southern Europe with northern Europe, which is a lot more developed economically

    EDIT: even Italy, compare the economy level in south sunny shores with the north rainy days
    Thanks . So geography affects personality like whether you live in hot weather in a beach or in cold weather up in the mountains. That is quite interesting I must say.

    How about cultural morals?, like each cultural region holds certain beliefs and a person is exposed to that and their personality changes as a result of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    i like what you wrote.

    and the climate is supposedly affecting the personality. Just compare the southern Europe with northern Europe, which is a lot more developed economically

    EDIT: even Italy, compare the economy level in south sunny shores with the north rainy days
    That's stupid, 2000 years ago the south was MUCH more developed than the north. Compare also Eskimos to India or Egypt.
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    .......

    Considering the differces between China, Japan, England, USA, and Italy, yeah, I say culture has an affect on types.


    However......

    within every culture there will be varations.
    I think culture is just a noter layer to a personls overall 'personality', which supercedes any "test" score.

    Do you think it would be wise/fair/accurate/reasonable to have a global personality typing? Or should there be considerations in place for cultural influences...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    I don't think culture has an actual effect on what a person's Socionics type would be (as, I tend to argue that type is something inborn). But culture will obviously modulate how the characterstics of any given personality type are expressed.
    Agreed, and how would that be noticed in the North American culture for instance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    That's stupid, 2000 years ago the south was MUCH more developed than the north. Compare also Eskimos to India or Egypt.
    she wasn't saying climate was the only factor...

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    different cultures hold different types to be more acceptable than others. the approved types are encouraged, while the unacceptable types live under pressure to change.

    some types are unacceptable in most cultures and some types are liked in any culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    .......

    Considering the differces between China, Japan, England, USA, and Italy, yeah, I say culture has an affect on types.


    However......

    within every culture there will be varations.
    I think culture is just a noter layer to a personls overall 'personality', which supercedes any "test" score.

    Do you think it would be wise/fair/accurate/reasonable to have a global personality typing? Or should there be considerations in place for cultural influences...?
    Ah...your saying that an ENTj in China is different than an ENTj in England.

    ...interesting.

    Well, it is true that each culture creates variations of types, but it also is possible for a certain function like feeling for example. A certain culture may embrace that function, while another culture will frown upon it causing changes with people's personality consciously or subconsciously.

    You have to look at the changes that occur due to the environmental impact of being immersed at a culture and the higher chance of being a perceiver because of your ancestors of that same culture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirana
    different cultures hold different types to be more acceptable than others. the approved types are encouraged, while the unacceptable types live under pressure to change.

    some types are unacceptable in most cultures and some types are liked in any culture.
    Yes, that is something I can agree on, in a broad-brush way.

    I don't think that different cultures change anyone's actual type, but different cultures encourage different kinds of personality and behavior, which may result in some types feeling more naturally comfortable in some cultures than others.

    For instance, Belgium is a country where, in my opinion, the people most likely to feel comfortable from this point of view are ISFps.
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    I don't think culture has an actual effect on what a person's Socionics type would be (as, I tend to argue that type is something inborn). But culture will obviously modulate how the characterstics of any given personality type are expressed.
    Im willing to bet that culture would deviate one's preference answers and their perception of the questions as well.

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    So..if you go to a country/culture that could be "typed" your dual would that have similar effects than being with an individual who is your dual?

    So, which country is ENFp? I might travel there to find out I sometimes get bored with the ISTj culture I live in..

    And I think it is obvious that culture affects your personality or at least your behavior. Perhaps not your type though. I have visited Mediterranean countries many times mostly Greece but Italy and Spain as well. I become much more talkative and open in there and generally I feel GOOD. On the downside the exteremly hot summers can make me very lazy and disenergized When it is freezing outside your survival instincts say you _must_ work hard to survive. When it is very warm you feel like you only want to enjoy yourself and have some fun. So climate seems to be a factor as well.

    The fact that South (Rome, Greece, Middle East, Northern Africa) used to be more developed in ancient times might be because there was not enough technology to survive and prosper in North. The climate was a bit milder in South than it is now and perfect for living and farming etc. Finland 2000 thousand years ago was a cold hell. But as a general rule it seems the more harsh the environment you live in the harder you push yourself. Unless it is _too_ harsh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    I don't think culture has an actual effect on what a person's Socionics type would be (as, I tend to argue that type is something inborn). But culture will obviously modulate how the characterstics of any given personality type are expressed.
    Im willing to bet that culture would deviate one's preference answers and their perception of the questions as well.
    that only means that people are more likely to mistake their personality for something more acceptable in their society - if their true personality tends to want to be approved. if their true personality tends to rebel, they would then want to pick answers that reject approved norms.

    either way, it is a case of mistaking one's type for another.

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    I have issues with this, by the same reasoning you would expect children to be in the same quadras as their parents (a microcosm of a macrocosm), but this isn't the case...

    However, I agree with Dynamicism - I wouldn't be surprised if I found an Indonesian ENFp and an Australian ENFp and found they were both quite different (even though the type of information metabolism was the same).

    I really don't think culture can affect information metabolism (I'm inclined to think this is biological).

    Distribution of types might also be due to a phenomenon similar to random genetic drift rather than cultural influence.

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    i was watching a documentary on the journey of man out of africa, splintered off in central asia, and the branch that went on the last migration to the americas to become native americans had to survive the ice age in eastern russia, cross the bering strait when it was iced over, got stuck on the other side because of mountains until the ice age subsided so that a passage through opened up and by then based on the genetic records of existing populations, only about a dozen or so people made it. well, maybe afterwards more people passed through, i don't know.

    presumably similar extreme migrations could have occurred, say, for australian aborigines to arrive in australia. i wonder which types would be more likely to make it the whole way.

    i'm thinking that all of us, regardless of our type, carry the components to express any type, so that descendents can still express a type that their ancestors did not show - and so any type can still be born even if only a few individuals survive, and of only a few types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirana
    i'm thinking that all of us, regardless of our type, carry the components to express any type, so that descendents can still express a type that their ancestors did not show - and so any type can still be born even if only a few individuals survive, and of only a few types.
    That's a very good point. I would have a few things to say but I don't know how welcome a discussion of genetics will be right now

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    Perhaps personality is better thought of as having a fractal nature in this instance. At some level we have our "base" personality type which is determained through genetics, early development, or how many times we were dropped on our heads when we were babies, whatever... The point being this base type provides the overall structure. As we develop into society and begin to take on cultural norms layers develop on our base type which we "filter" our decisions and actions through.

    For instance... let's say Billy Buttfuck is born in the United States to a middle class family. Genetically he's an ESFJ. As he grows up he learns to emulate his father who's an ISTJ. This developing layer of personality sprouts out of his base type like the branches of a Mandelbrot. His type remains ESFJ but becomes accented with the ISTJ behaviors he's picked up. As he matures and goes out into society on his own his personality grows a new layer of complexity by adopting the standard American entrepenuer tendencies (ENTJ).

    In real life there would probably be many layers to the personality "fractal" which develop as we are exposed to religions, prejiduces, and all the chewey goodness that makes up society.

    So in this sort of world macrotypes (nationality, ethnicity, religion) are not determained genetically, but are imposed on us as we develop. They exhist in the societies collective subconscious and are imposed on us over time through culture and history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirana
    i'm thinking that all of us, regardless of our type, carry the components to express any type, so that descendents can still express a type that their ancestors did not show - and so any type can still be born even if only a few individuals survive, and of only a few types.
    I'm still not totally sold on it all being about the genetics... At some point in the chain I think there has to be some sort of regulator which "molds" us into the types needed to fill the gaps in society. Without a full socion to give balance entire aspects of information would be warped or lost. It would be like totally losing the use of one of your functions, you'd become a vegetable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    I'm still not totally sold on it all being about the genetics... At some point in the chain I think there has to be some sort of regulator which "molds" us into the types needed to fill the gaps in society. Without a full socion to give balance entire aspects of information would be warped or lost. It would be like totally losing the use of one of your functions, you'd become a vegetable.
    I find it hard to imagine that societal pressure can mold information metabolism. The manifestation, perhaps, but not what actually goes on underneath. An Intuitor can't exactly by molded into a Sensor. It's like molding a right-handed person into a left-handed person.

    I'm also not convinced it's entirely genetic, I just think the environmental pressures are going to be more important in utero. Or through something nasty and physically traumatic like brain damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ishy
    I'm also not convinced it's entirely genetic, I just think the environmental pressures are going to be more important in utero. Or through something nasty and physically traumatic like brain damage.
    I've read somewhere that it is important to talk to the baby while it is in the mother's tummy,not from tv, it has to be human voice, they say the baby's intelligence grows, but I don't know if they refer to the information metabolism or what exactly is developed about the baby's brain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by ishy
    I'm also not convinced it's entirely genetic, I just think the environmental pressures are going to be more important in utero. Or through something nasty and physically traumatic like brain damage.
    I've read somewhere that it is important to talk to the baby while it is in the mother's tummy,not from tv, it has to be human voice, they say the baby's intelligence grows, but I don't know if they refer to the information metabolism or what exactly is developed about the baby's brain.
    I think it might be for nutrition of a sort. Bonding with other humans is apparently on equal par with food and water. A Romanian (?) king (whose name escapes me) wanted to find out what language children would speak without the influence of their parents language. These children in the study were never spoken to or touched at all except to feed them etc.. and they died.

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