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Thread: Experiences with Superego Relations

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    Default Experiences with Superego Relations

    Anyone have experience with this relation? Especially introvert superego relations? Wherein lie the misunderstandings? Intentions? Actions? What?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I was scary for the conflicts that would arise, but I haven't experienced them yet.

    I've had a brief relationships with ISFP women. It starts easely, because of the same temperament, but probably even more because of the seemingly Ideal partner.

    Although I recently saw in a threat Strnggg (INFP) and Cyclops (ISTP) have a big fight, they are superego too... so I guess the fights can be pretty mean.

    But so far for me personally, superego relations are fine. Yet the socionics descriptions still scares me enough not to look for another superego girlfriend.

    BTW now I remember a particular trait of this relationship which stood out. One partner is too clingy. In my case the ISFP women was way to clingy. Also the reason I broke the relationship. I've had this similar experience with an male ISFP aquantance of mine. They both kept page messaging me for a year... after I broke contact.

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    Super ego and conflictor relationship are the worst by FAR. Avoid it, at any cost. Another point of view is to believe that gamma SFs are bad for every non gamma person. Who knows? Fuck gamma SFs! (I mean down with them-hate-fury, not romantic relationship with them)
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    It's really rough...really, really rough. Really.



    I think the number one thing that sticks out for me is the major misunderstandings that hurt each other to the core.

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    I have a pretty good frienship with an INTj. We don't do a lot of stuff together and she is at least 10 years olders so that might help. I know that we both do make an effort to make sure misunderstandings are resolved and we do have misunderstandings.

    I had another friend who I thought might be INTj. We fought a lot and often intensely.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Super ego and conflictor relationship are the worst by FAR. Avoid it, at any cost. Another point of view is to believe that gamma SFs are bad for every non gamma person. Who knows? Fuck gamma SFs! (I mean down with them-hate-fury, not romantic relationship with them)
    Your just jealous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    It's really rough...really, really rough. Really.



    I think the number one thing that sticks out for me is the major misunderstandings that hurt each other to the core.
    Oh right. I think I remember you posting about a relationship you had with an IEI.

    It makes a certain amount of sense (to me anyway) that the ethical one would be the more clingy. Was that true in your case, Jessica?
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    And what do you think these misunderstandings ride on? Assumptions that the other one knows what's going on when they don't? Or assuming you value the same things when you don't. Or... what?

    I'm not sure I've ever known an SLI irl except for my hair person (who's great but obviously we're not that close and there's a chance she could be LSI).
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Misunderstandings are created by , which is usually unwilling to accept changes, the opposite of , prone to accept and promote changes
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Misunderstandings are created by , which is usually unwilling to accept changes, the opposite of , prone to accept and promote changes
    so you're talking about for you in a superego relation, right?

    So for me it would be the clash of and ?
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    Hmmm its hard to pinpoint but I think part of it is trying to work together we just do things differently and the other will say but this way makes more sense. So there is just sort of an akward moment and we just kind of pick one way and do it. I think the Fe valuing on her part can be a little draining because I try to give it to her and it takes energy for me to do that. It probably also drains her when I ask her all sorts of Te related things. I think overall we get along well though.
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    Hmmm, okay, thanks everyone for your replies.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    And what do you think these misunderstandings ride on? Assumptions that the other one knows what's going on when they don't? Or assuming you value the same things when you don't. Or... what?

    I'm not sure I've ever known an SLI irl except for my hair person (who's great but obviously we're not that close and there's a chance she could be LSI).
    Yeah, he was extremely clingy. I mean, I couldn't even go out with friends without him claiming i was "abandoning" him...but that's an entirely different story right there. I think the misunderstandings were just do to our complete opposite way of processing information. He really took my high level of introversion as me being uninterested and bitchy when that wasn't the case at all. I'd imagine this relation would be much harder between two introverts. I could tell the type of woman he needed and it wasn't me. We had more in common than most people but our communication skills were just non existant. I'd say something and he'd complain i was too blunt or not caring enough. Matter of fact, all his complaining seemed to revolve around how "passive" he thought i was. It was basically walking on egg shells the entire time. When it was good, it was amazing but when it was bad...my god, it was bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Yeah, he was extremely clingy. I mean, I couldn't even go out with friends without him claiming i was "abandoning" him...but that's an entirely different story right there. I think the misunderstandings were just do to our complete opposite way of processing information. He really took my high level of introversion as me being uninterested and bitchy when that wasn't the case at all. I'd imagine this relation would be much harder between two introverts. I could tell the type of woman he needed and it wasn't me. We had more in common than most people but our communication skills were just non existant. I'd say something and he'd complain i was too blunt or not caring enough. Matter of fact, all his complaining seemed to revolve around how "passive" he thought i was. It was basically walking on egg shells the entire time. When it was good, it was amazing but when it was bad...my god, it was bad.
    yeah, I can see not wanting to be with someone who's as passive as I am (or, horrors, even more passive). this friend I have who is either SLI or SEI is very passive. It's funny cause I think he expects me to start every single conversation. So we both stand there, neither of us talking, both of us wanting to talk and then walking away from it thinking that the other one doesn't really even want to be friends anymore or whatever. It's truly ridiculous. Our friendship only works when I feel like I have the freedom to approach him and play the extravert. Unfortunately, that freedom is gone at the moment. But anyway, I can sort of see how a superego thing would work. I mean, and how it would be difficult.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    With my ex-husband and I ... he would follow his habits (notably, diving so deep into video and board games that he would hardly even feed himself) and I would go looking for adventure (usually out-of-doors and frequently at the suggestion of an eager cohort), and then sometime later we'd notice we'd had hardly anything to do with one another for weeks, and both feel hurt. I kinda imagine he was expecting me to be more ESTp-ish and force him to come out and do things, and I was expecting him to be more ENFp-ish and want to come along at a mere suggestion of the unexpected. Obviously there's more to it, but when things unraveled, it was obvious that we each felt abandoned by the other ... like our expectations went unforgivably unmet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    With my ex-husband and I ... he would follow his habits (notably, diving so deep into video and board games that he would hardly even feed himself) and I would go looking for adventure (usually out-of-doors and frequently at the suggestion of an eager cohort), and then sometime later we'd notice we'd had hardly anything to do with one another for weeks, and both feel hurt. I kinda imagine he was expecting me to be more ESTp-ish and force him to come out and do things, and I was expecting him to be more ENFp-ish and want to come along at a mere suggestion of the unexpected. Obviously there's more to it, but when things unraveled, it was obvious that we each felt abandoned by the other ... like our expectations went unforgivably unmet.
    oh wow. This is the best concrete description I've read yet! thanks.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Well, my mother and father are ESI and LII respectively. As Ann pointed out, my mother and father don't really spend quality time together, although they love each other. They get into fierce arguments about once a week about something or other, with my mother incessantly yelling and my father unable to cope with it. He feels mentally sick after these arguments, in which he loses his appetite and lays in his room for hours, fuming. They still love each other, but it is especially hard for my father because his ideal woman(imo) is someone who would take care of him and not give him a hard time with everything, which my mother does a lot of the time. He has told me on numerous occasions that when I eventually get married to make sure I don't have the type of problems he does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    Well, my mother and father are ESI and LII respectively. As Ann pointed out, my mother and father don't really spend quality time together, although they love each other. They get into fierce arguments about once a week about something or other, with my mother incessantly yelling and my father unable to cope with it. He feels mentally sick after these arguments, in which he loses his appetite and lays in his room for hours, fuming. They still love each other, but it is especially hard for my father because his ideal woman(imo) is someone who would take care of him and not give him a hard time with everything, which my mother does a lot of the time. He has told me on numerous occasions that when I eventually get married to make sure I don't have the type of problems he does.
    awwww. that makes me really sad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    awwww. that makes me really sad.
    Yeah, I definitely sense the friction sometimes. They only see eye to eye on political and issues of morality, but on day-to-issues they could not be farther apart.

    *ESI: Private=agressive public=meek
    *LII: Private=meek public=agressive-ish

    EDIT: They just came in arguing about the number of hours they work and how my dad doesn't work around the house. :|
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    *ESI: Private=agressive public=meek
    *LII: Private=meek public=agressive-ish
    Is that just what you've noted? How are LIIs aggressive(ish) in public?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Is that just what you've noted? How are LIIs aggressive(ish) in public?
    When it comes to their deftness in argumentation.
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    super-ego for me can be bad w/ girls especially. I don't like to be told what to do or have my stuff moved. Very bad. It could just depend on the one girl I knew.

    But w/ guys they were more chill and really didn't bother me. It was more that it was almost boring because I knew they were all about Se. However, I also didn't ever think they were assholes (and I guess it can be hard for ESTps when everyone thinks they are an asshole because of the Se). I could definitely see the niceness in them and I liked that.

    Occasionally when they were quiet they'd remind me of ISTps though I'd be like "hmm! maybe he's an ISTP!" and get all interested. but then he'd walk into a room and have that ESTp aura and I'd realize that I'd rather the aura be all about me and not have to compete for attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    super-ego for me can be bad w/ girls especially. I don't like to be told what to do or have my stuff moved. Very bad. It could just depend on the one girl I knew.

    But w/ guys they were more chill and really didn't bother me. It was more that it was almost boring because I knew they were all about Se. However, I also didn't ever think they were assholes (and I guess it can be hard for ESTps when everyone thinks they are an asshole because of the Se). I could definitely see the niceness in them and I liked that.

    Occasionally when they were quiet they'd remind me of ISTps though I'd be like "hmm! maybe he's an ISTP!" and get all interested. but then he'd walk into a room and have that ESTp aura and I'd realize that I'd rather the aura be all about me and not have to compete for attention.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I usually get along very well with EIEs, to tell the surprising truth.

    Every one of them I know is kind (to a reasonable extent); I usually find the conversations to be civil and beneficial to both parties involved (by this I mean that we seem to exchange a rather large amount of useful information).

    Sometimes I can't understand why they would do certain things, and I always wish that they would be more frank; I sometimes get frustrated with their seemingly innate need to go with the crowd on their personal beliefs, but I go to a small school where ArchonAlarion and I usually hold enough sway (or have convinced enough people of our beliefs), so this isn't usually a problem in these situations.

    Actually, one of my best friends is an EIE; he's the guy all the way to the right in my avatar, and I genuinely enjoy being around him; he's one of the nicest, most personable people I have ever met.
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

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    Default Sorry for the Massiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    super-ego for me can be bad w/ girls especially. I don't like to be told what to do or have my stuff moved. Very bad. It could just depend on the one girl I knew.

    But w/ guys they were more chill and really didn't bother me. It was more that it was almost boring because I knew they were all about Se. However, I also didn't ever think they were assholes (and I guess it can be hard for ESTps when everyone thinks they are an asshole because of the Se). I could definitely see the niceness in them and I liked that.
    So this was super interesting for me to read. I've been sort of hypothesizing about whether or not certain super-ego combos can be more damaging than others. Again, I'm IEE and my fiance is SLE. ENFP/ESTP. Sometimes, I drive myself nuts wishing I was just a little more introverted, or pretending he is, cuz then, we'd be Duals! Just a letter off. lol.

    But anywho, we're not, and I've come to have this little hope, that contrary to everything I read here, that we're ok. It snuck into my head after realizing how much I love him. How much he loves me. How much we want this to work. How incredible it is when we're in sync. And what a great equality I feel with him. My best friend is an SLI. I've known her since I was 2 and have never valued her more since I understood all this Dual business. But in reality, while we are incredibly comfortable together, who said comfortablity makes the ideal couple? I know plenty of people who are comfortable together who should never date, and also many who didnít work out at all. The path of least resistance is not necessarily the best road

    For me, what makes our relationship so interesting, is the differences we have. What I've read so often about super-ego pairs is so negative. And the truth is, the things they speak about (the fear, the discomfort), are there. But so is this incredible respect and admiration for the person. They embody your weaknesses. Embody the traits you wish you had. In many ways weíre like a left and right shoe. We just make a pair, especially when weíre goin somewhere, or doing something. We work extremely well together when we have a common goal in mind. And both of us appreciate immensely eachotherís lack of harsh reactions. We don't break eachother down for not having them, or for not being a certain way. Actually, he doesnít stop telling people how smart I am, or how caring, loving, etc I am, especially when in a group. He also says all those things to me. And I do the same for him. To him directly, and about him to others. Heís a wonderful man, who works his butt off every day. He can be completely selfless, and is one of the most honest people I know. Itís a very respecting, level playing field, where you really feel like youíre with your equal. I suppose that has something to do with our relationship being monovert (from socioncics.us, in regards to monovert relationships: ďSense of level playing field and fair competition. Relationship revolves either around expansion and external business [two extraverts] or closes in on the relationship itself [two introverts].Ē). I would hope more people who've been in super-ego pairs post. I'd like to develop this idea more. Maybe two SuperEgo E's together don't hurt internally as much as two SuperEgo I's, as the relationship can revolve around external business, rather than closing in on itself. Also/Or, maybe romantic relationships lend themselves more to the superego pair, as it is more expected to have more open conversation, where as a friendship may not merit such deep convo. It could be odd to expend energy and request deeper connection from Ďjust a friendí. N

    These are just some of my theories. I should also note that when we first met, we did not speak the same language. Literally. He speaks only Spanish. Iíve now learned it (those yrs in HS come right back when u start using it, uíd be surprised ) and we now can speak fluently together. Interestingly (tho probably not shockingly) enough, that was when I really started to sense the super-ego ness. Thatís when I got on the web, read up about it, and the light bulb went on. Iím not gonna lie, itís not all roses. Hello, itís a SuperEgo pair. But itís also not nearly as bad or negative as itís cracked up to be. ĎLeast not for our combo.

    To me, he is an incredible person. He has so much potential and so much to offer to the world, and to me. Through socionics, i've really been able to understand which things really should concern me, and which things are just our super-egos running into eachother. I am beginning to be able to weed through, and recognize when our functions are just hitting wrong, and know that nothing horrible is happening, no need to panic. Lol. And that in itself is calming. I remember before I read about socionics, in my David Keirsey, Please Understand Me days, I read that ďAny two well-developed types can have a successful relationshipĒ. And I really feel that is true. I would hope more comes of this thread. If I donít destroy it with my massive post, that no one will get through. Iím sorry, I just have so many ideas! Ick. And this sucker is edited! Sorry! Lol :/


    [however, on one more quick, and I emphasize quick, note, one of my best friends is going on yr 7 in a conflict pair. There should be another thread Ďbout that tho Iíll stop on this one]
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    One of my good friends is an ESFp.

    She's made my life miserable, but other then that we get along great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnycalih View Post
    So this was super interesting for me to read. I've been sort of hypothesizing about whether or not certain super-ego combos can be more damaging than others. Again, I'm IEE and my fiance is SLE. ENFP/ESTP. And I really feel that is true. I would hope more comes of this thread. If I donít destroy it with my massive post, that no one will get through. Iím sorry, I just have so many ideas! Ick. And this sucker is edited! Sorry! Lol :/
    I read it all, and found it interesting! Hey, if your and your fiance are happy and it works, then it works. Why even question it? Socionics is one little part, but not the whole enchilada.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Default MY UN-EDITED RANT #2

    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I read it all, and found it interesting! Hey, if your and your fiance are happy and it works, then it works. Why even question it? Socionics is one little part, but not the whole enchilada.
    **WARNING, UN-EDITED RANT COMING ON**:

    So, this response gave me hope. And I tried to get away from the super-ego labelness for a while. but my god have things gone horribly wrong this weekend. I cried. I donít even remember why. Oh wait, yes I do, it was because he got drunk cuz he got let go from his job, and I donít get him when heís drunk. Heís Super loud, and dances, and calls friends like rapid fire. I mean, I guess heís an E, afterall, but I think just the way our Eíness expresses itself is SO different, it scares me when itís thrown in my face. I catch myself in the mirror w/ a furrowed brow, and tense shoulders, just a, ďwhat on Earth are you doing?Ē look. Which tends to only make him do it more for some reason. I imagine thereís some sort of inner voice which picks up on the implied pressure oozing from my looks, saying ďcalm the F down. what is wrong w/ you??Ē but instead of calming, his inner self makes him want to rebel against any voice that is trying to silence or control him. Tho its my function thatís seems to be trying to keep my sanity that is asking him to calm down. Itís like, thereís this part of me that is silently Pleading with him to calm down. to be ďnormalĒ again. And itís doing this because otherwise Iíll lose my mind. But to him, it doesnít matter why Iím doing it, just that he feels the pressure to change, to do something other than what he feels inclined to do. so he rebels against that ďpressureĒ.

    I woke up with a Horribly tight neck and shoulders. I cried the next morning, because Iíd been yelling at him at night, saying ďIíll see you in the morning! I sure do miss my boyfriend right now, donít know where he went! Thereís some nutjob here in my room instead, yelling and dancing and stumbling, but I wonít see my bf til the morning!Ē And then, in the morning, when it was ďhimĒ again, I cried. Cuz the whole episode hurt me terribly. I am, in the end, an Idealist. And that episode was Anything but ideal. Thing is, he really wasnít that horrible. He was just dancing and laughing loud. Why did it Terrify me to the point of a feeling of raw fear? I felt Terrified, and thatís not an exaggeration. I was terrified of Why he was acting like that. I donít like not getting things. And I donít get how when someone looks at you like youíre nuts, you donít even acknowledge it. you get louder! And not someone you hate. Your fiancť, is the one doing it. wouldnít that make you want to simmer down a notch? Or, laugh? Or make fun of the fact that Iím all scared for no reason? I can take a joke, make fun of me for it. making light of the fear would make it lighter. But he just seemed to take it as a challenge. So I felt worse for reacting that way, which then turned into this feeling of guilt. He asked me to come sit by the radio w/ him, because he wanted to keep his mind off the job stuff, and just relax. And he wanted me to sit there w/ him. but he was so loud! It just made me cringe every time he laughed. The Eíness was terrifying me. I just wanted to plead w/ him to get into bed and sleep. But I could tell that he was relaxing. I just couldnít stand being around it. He just got louder and louder. I didnít know what to do to make him stop, but I wanted him to stop so badly. Thing is, he can get like this anytime heís around friends. Heís just loud, and, oh god, the answer is so clear when I write it here. itís just SUPEREGO problems all over the place.

    Anyway, getting to the point, I cried. He got irritated. To the point where he resembled me the night before. Me crying makes him feel horrible. I cry because I feel weak, or am concerned, and itís basically just whatever inner turmoil I have, bubbling over. But thereís always this underlying hope for me, that someone will just hold me and make it all ok. Because really, itís rarely based in any rational fear. Itís just a ďwhat are we doing here?Ē ďwhy is there so much sadness in the world?Ē ďwhy does the world scare me?Ē ďwhat if we donít make it?Ē ďdo you know how much Iíd miss you if you werenít here?Ē These are the things going through my head when I end up tearing up. and then, at these moments, I want SO badly, to look into your eyes, and have you see how much Iím hurting, and just want to calm me down. I need to be calmed down at these times so bad. I know no one has answers to these questions, but just to hold me, and not take it seriously. I donít want to concern you more, and want to know that these fears I have are insignificant, and will never effect us. that it doesnít get to you that I have random fears. That it wonít effect you.

    Not gonna happen apparently w/ an ESTP. He feels like SH*T when I cry. We almost broke up about 3 times this weekend. He looks at me like Iím nuts when I cry. Heís like, ďwhy are you crying? What did I do?Ē ďyou didnít do anything! I donít know, justÖĒ And I try to go in for a hug, cuz thatís all I need and Iíll shut up. just hug me, protect me. calm me. be stronger than I am. show me that the things that terrify me, donít get to you at all. But he canít. I know these things donít get to him, but he canít accept that they get to me. Weíre so torn today. I want to cry all the time. I donít know how we got to this point. Itís breaking my heart. Heís met my parents, we live together. We have two cars together, and a bedroom set we make payments on. I feel like my hopes and dreams are falling down around me. I had a panic attack last night, I webmdíd it. I have chest pain, and thought I was losing my mind. I donít know how to deal w/ this. I feel like if we break up, it will be because I cry. And I know Iíll only cry more when we break up. should I go to a therapist and try to work us out? should I let the whole thing go, and just go on some sexy, ISTP (SLI) search. How will I deal w/ this loss? Should I try to get Prozac or something, so I can numb the irrational fear and pain I feel? Will that help? Am I lying to myself? Will we always end up in this same position? What if I actually have kids with the guy. What then? Post pardum depression?? Who will work me through that? this relationship, if it fails, will devastate us both, because weíve both put so much into it. He cooks, and cleans, and buys me flowers, and rubs my back, and goes to movies w/ me that he hates, and goes to all girls parties, cuz I invite him. and I keep our place spotless, and make him a priority, and make dinner, and have turned into a housewife. Heís motivated me to get a better job, and to stick to it, and motivates me to finish my psychology degree, and wants to help me do so, and is so generous, and gives money to whoever needs it, whenever. And he admires how kind I am, and always tells his friends and family how we hate to argue, and how we just get along so well. and itís usually so true! We both respect and adore eachother as people. we have idealized eachother for over a yr. I love him. I love the little things he does. How I wake up at 4 am and his feet are searching inadvertently through the sheets for mine. How when we get ready for bed, he brings me my slippers in the bathroom so my feet donít get cold on the tile, or heíll prep my toothbrush w/ toothpaste, or just randomly start washing my hair in the shower. Or hug me when weíre in line somewhere, or just look into my eyes and tell me how beautiful my eyes are, or just how beautiful I am. he makes me feel like a princess 90% of the time.

    But the thing is, as he does these things, my automatic response, is to tear up. it brings tears to my eyes sometimes how sweet he is, I teared up right now, just writing that. I tear up when Iím happy, when Iím sad, when the emotion or beauty of something overwhelms me, or even when I laugh to hard. But no matter what the reason is, just the fact that he sees tears in my eyes, makes him feel guilt. Makes him feel down on himself. Like Iím not getting enough from him. How horrible is that? I inadvertenly make him feel bad. and then, when I see him feeling bad, I feel worse! Cuz I know itís because of my reactions. But I love the kid so damn much!! Itís not that he does anything horrible to the point of me not loving him any more. I still love him immensely. Thatís whatís so horrible! This idea of us not working out, is ripping apart my heart. Itís tearing it apart thread by thread. Weíve become so intertwined. And I do respect and love him so much as a person. We just canít, for the life of us, make eachother truly happy. And thatís all either of us really want to do. See the other one completely happy. But the thing is, neither of us know what the HELL to do w/ eachotherís weaknesses. Where we want to help, and where it hurts us to see the other person hurting, theyíre just acting so WEIRD in those moments, it scares us. and rather than show love and acceptance when we need it most, we come off hard, cold, and uncaring. COMPLETELY inadvertently. This whole thing is breaking my heart. I canít imagine my life without him anymore, but the thought of being w/ someone who cannot/will not calm me, understand me inner fears, terrifies me. I know I will be an emotional wreck, worse than now, down the line. Like I said. After a baby, after 2, 3 kids. Mid life crisis? If you canít handle my random fears now, how the hell will you deal w/ those train wrecks later??

    Then thereís the other things. He doesnít like birthdays. Or valentines. He doesnít like giving or receiving gifts these days. he doesnít like theme parks, or doing random things, just on a whim. But at the same time, heís not one for big planned events. He doesnít seem to enjoy anything, really. Accept sitting w/ friends, exchanging concrete stories. I get bored out of my MIND in these groups. ďremember the time?Ē ďthis one time..Ē ďI can top that, remember when??Ē shut the eff up. who cares? What are you even talking about any more, and why are you all talking?? Oh god, it hurts my head. The only time weíre really good together, I suppose is when we are both dancing, we do enjoy that, or when weíre both in bed, watching tv, snuggling, or just the two of us, SOBER. Or maybe I should rephrase the first part of that sentence to read ďthe only time Iím really happy isĒ. Those are the moments I wait for. The moments I endure everything else for. I try so hard to put a good spin on things. And I am naturally optimistic, to a fault, so I rrreaally donít like giving up on things. Thereís so much good! So much love! Many little things I would miss enormously. Really, I just donít know how I would go on. I donít know if I would be motivated to keep working, or, function at all. I have no idea how I would sleep. I donít know how to sleep alone anymore. I donít know how to, nor if I want to, give it up, or if I could even deal w/ the loneliness afterwards, or the thinking about how heís feeling. I couldnít handle it being my fault. Because I cry?? Because I want a valentineís gift? I read somewhere about how ENFPís cannot fault people for things they do inadvertently. Welp, I canít fault him for anything. His motives are always pure and sweet. Having two Eís or two Iís makes for an even plane, right? So we both feel like weíre equals.

    Oh what a mess. What a great big huge mess. And what a gigantic venting-fest. Or more correctly, ramble-fest. But I always ramble, I suppose. Sorry.
    ENFP * IEE *

    "You don't have a soul. You have a body. You are a soul."

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    Sunny.... I only skimmed it. But I have to say, please please please listen to what is going on and seriously consider taking a break from this relationship. I just have to say it. marriage is... long and full of ups and downs. If you're having these sorts of things happen before you're even married, it doesn't bode well. My supervisee husband (we've been married for almost 15 years) and I never fought before we were married. We don't fight often now, but we do fight and things aren't perfect. But my gosh, if you're not even married yet, get out while you can!! Even if you love him. He's not giving you what you need. I know that being engaged seems final or something but it's not. It's waaaay less final than having kids and a house and a whole lifetime. Do not think that things will get better. Most likely it will be the opposite. (And this coming from an optimist! Sorry....)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Default Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Sunny.... I only skimmed it. But I have to say, please please please listen to what is going on and seriously consider taking a break from this relationship. I just have to say it. marriage is... long and full of ups and downs. If you're having these sorts of things happen before you're even married, it doesn't bode well. My supervisee husband (we've been married for almost 15 years) and I never fought before we were married. We don't fight often now, but we do fight and things aren't perfect. But my gosh, if you're not even married yet, get out while you can!! Even if you love him. He's not giving you what you need. I know that being engaged seems final or something but it's not. It's waaaay less final than having kids and a house and a whole lifetime. Do not think that things will get better. Most likely it will be the opposite. (And this coming from an optimist! Sorry....)
    Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate it more than you know. It makes me feel sane to have people actually respond in a normal manner anymore, regardless of the positivity or not. I appreciate the honesty.

    My real question, and maybe I should hop over to some ďdualityĒ thread, is will my dual really give me what I need. Will they comfort me when Iím panicky? Or will they do the same thing. Thatís another fear I have. If I do let him go, itíll be, deeply, because I have this idealistic hope of having that ďdualityĒ relationship.

    My ex and I were a supervisor relationship. I was the supervisee. That was a horrible relationship. I never thought this relationship could compare to that one. We argued constantly. It had become a comfort blanket for both of us, but the blanket had turned into a piece of prickly sand paper. Weíd be cold w/ out it, but gotdam, if it wasnít annoying to be under.

    This relationship is turning into something almost more hurtful. Because I canít hate my SLE like I hated my LII. I could get some sort of dislike going for the LII, because he was doing things purposefully to get to me. granted, after reading about socionics, I understand he was probably coming w/ good intentions, too. thank god I didnít know about all this business then. maybe Iíd still be stuck there! I wonder if this would be easier to deal w/ if I didnít understand SO much, where he is coming from.

    Just a mess. A horrible, confusing, painful, mess.

    I think Iím changing my tune on the super-ego pairs. Yeup. This weekendís opened my eyes. Damn.
    ENFP * IEE *

    "You don't have a soul. You have a body. You are a soul."

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnycalih View Post
    My real question, and maybe I should hop over to some ďdualityĒ thread, is will my dual really give me what I need. Will they comfort me when Iím panicky? Or will they do the same thing. Thatís another fear I have. If I do let him go, itíll be, deeply, because I have this idealistic hope of having that ďdualityĒ relationship.
    You know, before I knew a dual at close distance, I was skeptical. And I've only been in a romantic relationship with a dual once (when I was like 15 and only for a few months). I'm good friends with one now and it's very very comfortable and safe. He totally calms me and motivates me. There's a weightiness, a groundedness to him which is what I need as an IEI. Anyway, duality isn't everything but when the other things line up (values, goals, interests), it really can be amazing.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnycalih View Post
    My ex and I were a supervisor relationship. I was the supervisee. That was a horrible relationship. I never thought this relationship could compare to that one. We argued constantly. It had become a comfort blanket for both of us, but the blanket had turned into a piece of prickly sand paper. Weíd be cold w/ out it, but gotdam, if it wasnít annoying to be under.

    This relationship is turning into something almost more hurtful. Because I canít hate my SLE like I hated my LII. I could get some sort of dislike going for the LII, because he was doing things purposefully to get to me. granted, after reading about socionics, I understand he was probably coming w/ good intentions, too. thank god I didnít know about all this business then. maybe Iíd still be stuck there! I wonder if this would be easier to deal w/ if I didnít understand SO much, where he is coming from.
    I had similar experiences - I mean I was with LII and with SLE. For me, the relationship with LII was much better. I felt really comfortable with him, at ease especially in the beginning. I really loved that guy although he had a very difficult character. I don't blame his type for that. I know other INTjs, they are prone to have "difficult characters" but not all of them do. I'd actually never say I hate LIIs, it's just the opposite. I admire them in a way and I feel good in their company.
    My SLE was a person I really couldn't forget. The breakup was really painful although the relationship wasn't very serious. Because I thought he was an ideal. Now I think he's too loud, too self-centered and compared to my LII antitechnical (a trait which I value no idea why )

    And I think you overestimate duality. I'm sure it's really comfortable but you can have a nice life with other types. It depends on what you value. If I had a choice, I would go for another LII or SLI. Not because I think SLIs are a perfect match but because I know what I like. I like quiet, thinking types, with a sense of humor.

    Actually I'm sure you have a good intuition and you know what's good for you. I think you should forget about socionics a little bit and treat it more like a hobby. It's just a theory, some time ago people believed that the earth is a pancake. I mean I'm not saying it's a bad theory but just keep distance. From my own experience I know you may start exaggerating your stereotypical ENFpish traits and value ISTps too much. Anyway, some dual relationships also finish with a painful break-up.

    If I could give you some piece of advice, try to find some strength inside you, because it is there. You don't need any ISTp or whoever to calm you, try to do it yourself. Try to treat yourself as if you were your best friend. If you feel insecure - try to think it's just a moment and it will be gone. Make a cup of tea, relax, try to keep distance. I'm sure it will work.

    I wish you good luck with everything! Whatever happens, if you get married or if you finish this relationship - be your best friend and try to be the best to you. Take care of yourself, raise your mood! Nobody will do it for you, and it's even better to do it yourself .
    Take care! I am with you :*

  32. #32
    Twist-Tie Spider iAnnAu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnycalih View Post
    My real question, and maybe I should hop over to some ďdualityĒ thread, is will my dual really give me what I need. Will they comfort me when Iím panicky? Or will they do the same thing. Thatís another fear I have. If I do let him go, itíll be, deeply, because I have this idealistic hope of having that ďdualityĒ relationship.
    Sunny ... two things.
    1. You don't have to give up on the relationship you have. You've given us a few details about it, but only you are living it. And no relationship is perfect. You're going through a rough spot, but if the two of you can address what's going on and come to an understanding, that very process can strengthen the bonds between you. EVERY RELATIONSHIP TAKES WORK. Now, if you have been noticing all sorts of problems and they're stacking up unresolved, THAT is important and probably a good indicator that either the two of you are innately incompatible or one or both of you has some emotional maturity to develop. But again, we can't really tell you that from an internet forum.

    2. Your dual is not going to give you what you "need" any more or less than any other type. Their information metabolism is theorized to be the most complementary to your own, and that's all. It means that you're likely to be comfortable around them ... but ultimately it's up to YOU to give yourself what you need, and then find someone whose company you enjoy deeply enough to commit yourself to. And let me not downplay the difficulty of doing this for oneself - I can't even be certain I've achieved that level of maturity! But I'm not AFRAID of being alone; I know I'll be OK. The relationship I have with my current SO is going great, but if at some point in the future we end up not together, my life will go on, and that is no smear on him - I would hope he could say the same about himself. To me, that makes it even more significant that we choose to share our lives with each other.

    It sounds like you're going through some strong and confusing emotions, so I hope I haven't said anything that sounds dismissive. Give yourself some time and space to yourself to give them some expression, because trying to stuff those emotions down and not acknowledge them has had bad results for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    But I'm not AFRAID of being alone; I know I'll be OK. The relationship I have with my current SO is going great, but if at some point in the future we end up not together, my life will go on, and that is no smear on him - I would hope he could say the same about himself.
    What's the type of the person you are with now?
    I like your post ... I used to think the same when I was in a relationship with my ex - that if we split up at some point I'll be able to carry on, thank you for reminding me that! :*

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    Sunnycalih, it's been a few days since your last post. I hope you feel better now :redface:

    first of all, would it change how you feel if you we duals? I don't know but IEI can be as outgoing as anyone. Introversion in your case is simply using NI Fe over Ne Fi. In the way you post your venting, you still seem to keep on track on issues. You don't seem to jump all over the place (Ne).

    Also you seem very emotional. Of course IEE's are emotional, but I think that because of the IEE's ability to read ppls motivation a IEE would fairly easily figure out her own motivations for crying, etc. and not stay confused about her own feelings too long

    also you write you know what you need, a hug. From my experiance (I'm only 95% sure I'm IEE) when I'm confused I feel I need to do something or reason my way out of it (Se Ti) hence I try using my superego functions. I don't realize that I actually just need Si, be it a run, a meal, a long nights sleep or a hug. If you need action and logical reasoning maybe you might be IEI

    So do you think you could be IEI?

    I'm sorry I have to go. I'll get back to you later. All the best Sunnycalih

    oh and I dig your avatar A LOT
    n00bIEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by dattebayo View Post
    Sunnycalih, it's been a few days since your last post. I hope you feel better now :redface:

    first of all, would it change how you feel if you we duals? I don't know but IEI can be as outgoing as anyone. Introversion in your case is simply using NI Fe over Ne Fi. In the way you post your venting, you still seem to keep on track on issues. You don't seem to jump all over the place (Ne).

    Also you seem very emotional. Of course IEE's are emotional, but I think that because of the IEE's ability to read ppls motivation a IEE would fairly easily figure out her own motivations for crying, etc. and not stay confused about her own feelings too long

    also you write you know what you need, a hug. From my experiance (I'm only 95% sure I'm IEE) when I'm confused I feel I need to do something or reason my way out of it (Se Ti) hence I try using my superego functions. I don't realize that I actually just need Si, be it a run, a meal, a long nights sleep or a hug. If you need action and logical reasoning maybe you might be IEI

    So do you think you could be IEI?

    I'm sorry I have to go. I'll get back to you later. All the best Sunnycalih

    oh and I dig your avatar A LOT
    This is pretty much in line with what I was thinking reading your post, sunny. I don't know that I can actually list specific reasons for thinking so, like dattebayo did here, but I just get an Ni/Fe vibe (could also be EIE) from your post. And I relate to a lot of what you wrote, on a deeply raw level. I hope you're feeling better these days!

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    Sirena!!! what happened to your sig

    I forgot to reply on the op, cuz I got so caught up in sunnycali's situation. Sunnycalih if ur reading this I really hope that you've sorted it out

    oh, i almost forgot again lol. My sister is my superego, but we have the best relationship! So much so, that it makes me wonder whether we really are superegos on a daily basis lol but i really think we are. I do see a difference in values and motivations, but it still doesn't seem to cause any real misunderstandings or disappointments. Maybe this is because we know each other so well. There is a bigger need for communication than with a dual. But if u don't mind the odd discussion it is OK

    The good thing about a superego relationship is that it helps developing your superego functions effortlessly it seems just by being around a skilled person.
    plus it forces you to look beyond your own values and pov's. This I think is the best thing about having a really good relationship with a person from a opposing quadra (or just another quadra I guess)
    also means less relaxing and more action and plain fun in our case, than with my dual. It's nice with a bit (or A LOT) of both I think
    n00bIEE

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    Default Superego hit

    I just got this message on Tribal Wars:

    check out how close these guy's are to you...

    and they are on our side...

    and eventually will take over this K

    - The Huns .1 (911|350) K39

    - Immunesoul#055 no1 can Take me (913|363) K39

    - SUBV#039 (904|370) K39

    - kix 9 (901|354) K39

    if you would like to join let me know...

    i know these guy's...

    they want points...

    and they won't stop...

    (not trying to start anything)...
    He's made an enemy.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  38. #38
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Superego relations which seem good initially and which for a time you believe may actually work

    Posted this at socionics workshop, but it looks inactive and shit and like I won't get a reply for at least a week.

    I recently split up with my girlfriend of four months, who I initially thought was EIE. Then I thought about IEE. I didn't see how me, an SLE, and her, my activation partner, could possibly be incompatible, given my fantastic relations with two EIEs who I deem my best friends, as well as possibly two other EIEs who I consider to be good friends. On top of this, other EIEs I've met I am instantly drawn to.

    Now, when I first met my girlfriend, I was instantly drawn to her. This, I've been thinking, is because I saw Fe and Ni in her and liked it.

    I read the intertype relations on socionics.us a few days ago, particularly the activation and superego ones, and I was surprised by just how "good" the superego relations could look. In fact, it struck me as being highly accurate in describing our relations and some of the reasons they ended.

    So, can superego relations look hopeful to start with? More over, could a relationship be successfully had for four months before it started becoming obvious that what she wanted and what I had (Te and Si) I simply didn't value, and vice versa? Or is it impossible that it could last so long without my recognising that she was clearly from a different - opposite - quadra, and thus other factors must be responsible? FTR, she is definitely IEE or EIE. It's not even worth considering other options.

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    I haven't had much luck with my superego type. They tend to rub me the wrong way without them meaning to. I wonder if they feel the same way about me.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I had an ESE friend in high school, and it seemed like we would be bffs, but then when we hung out about a year ago, it was clear I had gone seperate from my class, which was primarily Alpha, with a few betas and deltas thrown in. I can only think of one other person who I would guess as gamma. BTW, my class had 34 kids in it.
    LIE-Ni, i think, but maybe ILI

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