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Thread: Socionics & Enneagram must be used together and importance for Duality

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    Default Socionics & Enneagram must be used together and importance for Duality

    People who spend their life investing on Socionics, the history of socionics, were started from Infromation Elements, which then to model A and then to intertype relationship. I think the next step MUst be INfusing Enneagram together to further more upon Intertype relationship. I think most of you here know that. It just click in my head that my Dual, the ISTj is not my dual but the ISTj with instinct stacking SO/SX, which is identical to my stacking. An ISTj I know whose stack begins with an Sp and I wont be able to develop a relationship like what the Dual descrption is suspose to be, People must know that since most people think Duals are overrated yet still believe that it is true. WHY? i can explain and it is because they might have met one or two whose enneagrram of their dual align a match with their own enneagram type, there provide perfect duality.(I think however enneagram type has less of importance as the Instinct stacking)
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    I've already put socionics and enneagram together.

    This is GCPT : http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4940/gcpt091ii4.jpg

    You can use it for your work as you wish. This table is public domain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    I've already put socionics and enneagram together.

    This is GCPT : http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4940/gcpt091ii4.jpg

    You can use it for your work as you wish. This table is public domain.
    A link to what the 0/-/+ types represent would be useful.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    I've already put socionics and enneagram together.

    This is GCPT : http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4940/gcpt091ii4.jpg

    You can use it for your work as you wish. This table is public domain.
    hey machintruc! how are you? good to see you
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpiazza000 View Post
    People who spend their life investing on Socionics, the history of socionics, were started from Infromation Elements, which then to model A and then to intertype relationship. I think the next step MUst be INfusing Enneagram together to further more upon Intertype relationship. I think most of you here know that. It just click in my head that my Dual, the ISTj is not my dual but the ISTj with instinct stacking SO/SX, which is identical to my stacking. An ISTj I know whose stack begins with an Sp and I wont be able to develop a relationship like what the Dual descrption is suspose to be, People must know that since most people think Duals are overrated yet still believe that it is true. WHY? i can explain and it is because they might have met one or two whose enneagrram of their dual align a match with their own enneagram type, there provide perfect duality.(I think however enneagram type has less of importance as the Instinct stacking)
    This is essentially true. It's also no surprise that there is a strongly consistent distribution of enneagram type variations for each specific socionics type. I don't think they need to be infused, per say; they describe different things. However, the correlations seem to evince themselves naturally, like statistical probabilities, rendering certain things as "rules" of sorts (i.e. an INTj will never be a 7). I suppose one could go into various studies about energy levels and whatnot, but to me that would be pointless, since the patterns are what they are anyway.

    And yeah, it's not just about having your dual. Frankly, I believe that instinct stacking plays the most fundamental aspect in a relationship, because it denotes one's intrinsic drives towards life experience. The various enneagram types for dual pairs seem to be generally complementary anyway (i.e. INFp 4 with ESTp 7).
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Is there a place that gives the best enneagram pairings? For instance you mentioned IEI 4 with SLE 7. So what would an SLE 3 be best paired with? IEI 9?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Is there a place that gives the best enneagram pairings? For instance you mentioned IEI 4 with SLE 7. So what would an SLE 3 be best paired with? IEI 9?
    Oh, I didn't mean that was necessarily the best pairing (although it tends to be); just that the usual enneagram types for duals tend to be generally complementary. I haven't really looked into the details of pairings, and don't really care to. You can't find objective descriptions of compatibility in enneagram; it's too experiential to define in that manner. But from understanding the fundamentals, your type, etc., you begin to find your own preferences and whatnot. That's why it's so vastly superior to socionics, lol; it works in a bottom-up fashion, simply modeling natural processes as they occur, maintaining the 'purity' between the patterns.

    One definite thing, is that instinct stackings work best with identicals. sx/sp and sx/sp, etc. If in a relationship with someone of another stacking, you will eventually find their first instinct draining, annoying, etc.

    As per 4's, since I know you're one, I tend to think that 7's are the best match for us. 6's can be good, as there is a mutual emotional understanding (reactive harmonic), but they can get dependent and shit, and not open us up enough. 8's are cool, although a lot of times they seem to balk at what they perceive as intrusions by 4's (hiding inner weakness), and sometimes lack the empathy to help us with emotional stuff. But 7's have that happiness—that detached happiness—that brings us out (of the past) and helps remove extraneous personal attachments to (negative) things. And I think we balance them out by showing them that they aren't empty inside, and can be secure without constantly evading the inner pain (as we are the most familiar with it, naturally).
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    This is Ni-base approach.
    Why? I tend to think that Te-valuers usually prefer the bottom-up approach, building a sort of continual, gradational sequence; whereas Ti-valuers tend to be more top-down, establishing predications and moving from there.

    Although, in this context, anyone with half a brain knows that human nature will never be modeled optimally by some closed-in box.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Ni is also bottom-up function.
    Ok, but why? I suppose I could hazard a guess...

    I see Si/Ne working in a very forward-moving manner. Si seems to 'secure' the environment in a way, by creating a subjective medium to gauge and understand the interconnected ostensible processes taking place. Maybe this establishes a "top" of sorts? Ne moves forward from there, dividing and interpolating the objects, continually breaking things down in order to... reach a final answer without missing anything. Ni/Se seems to work from the end backwards. The medium Ni establishes is of a more abstract nature, with a holistic process that underpins things. Se gauges objects' explicit properties and breaks up the environment, continually registering ostensible cues and whatnot. But the 'essence' that Ni establishes is preserved, albeit slightly shifted over time.

    But I'm interested to hear your reasoning.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Yea strrng I basically agree much on what you said.
    Last edited by 07490; 01-05-2009 at 04:51 AM.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    These relations are the most favourable and comfortable of all intertype relations providing complete psychological compatibility. Dual partners are like two halves of a whole unit. They usually understand each others intentions without any need to say a word. Dual will naturally protect your weak points and appreciate the strong ones without asking for anything in return. Interaction with your Dual allows you to be yourself without the need to adjust to your partner like in other relations. This often saves both partners a lot of energy which they can use for their own interesting activities. Conflicts between Duals are very rare and if there are any, they are normally short lived and solved without pain. Your Dual partner will love you just for what you are and if there is such a thing as true love then it could probably only occur in relations of Duality.

    However, let's not idealise these relations too much. Although theoretically relations of Duality are the best of the best, practically not everybody who is your Dual will make your dreams come true. The reason for this is that we are usually so twisted up during the course of our lives that our already formed and stable views and attitudes can affect our relationships quite heavily. In fact, younger people have more chance to succeed in the quest for their perfect partner than older people. But the chances are always there.

    There are at least two conditions to be completed for a successful relationship between Duals. Firstly between the partners there has to be at least a minimal mutual attraction. Secondly and most importantly is that the partners are truly striving for the same or similar things. This may include common interests and/or life goals. Partners that are both seriously thinking about building a family are a good example. Logically saying: two halves of the same whole must not repel or move in the different directions, otherwise the whole will break into pieces. Relations of Duality also go through several stages. The first stage sometimes can be really tense. It is like a new engine that requires a "run in" first. If relations crumble it normally happens in the first stage. The more stages completed by Duals the more unbreakable their relationship.

    However, nature has played a little trick on us. It is difficult to notice your Dual partner among all the other types and even easier to pass them by. Usually during first contact extroverts think about their introvert Dual as ordinary and simple, therefore not deserving their personal attention. In return introverts consider their extrovert Dual to be too good for them and therefore unattainable. Both positions usually belong to people who had a lack of Duality interaction during childhood. The magnetic effect of Duality becomes obvious when partners do not see each other for a while. Only after being together for a fair amount of time do the partners start realising how much they need each other. Finally, these relations are most suitable for friendship, marriage and family life. To have a Dual partner is irreplaceable if you have to compete or survive in a socially dangerous environment.


    this is something to think about in enneagram and its instinct stacking.
    Last edited by 07490; 01-05-2009 at 03:56 AM.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    I've already put socionics and enneagram together.

    This is GCPT : http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4940/gcpt091ii4.jpg

    You can use it for your work as you wish. This table is public domain.
    how do you use this?
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    This has more effect on dual relasionship than Subtypes, I think subtypes naturally falls in place, like If ENTp-ne is talking to an ISFp-fe, when their instinct stacking is right, it will automatic adjust to each other.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    You're not going to hear it. My Ne superpowers tell me that Ni is bottom-up function(if not in a real sense of the word then at least when compared to Ne). Anyway, I am a top-down system thinker, so to make the plausible explanation I would first have to arrange my raw Ne perceptions into some sort of a coherent system. Of course, I'm working on it. Till then.
    I agree, Ni is probably more bottom up in a way, and seems to pair naturally with Te when describing reality (In the NT-ish way). Compare Alpha NT scientists to Gamma NTs and you see this approach varied.

    I agree with Strrrng that Ne/Si is very forward moving, so if you put the quadra functions together, you have the Alphas moving like this \ over time and Gammas like this / , which seems to make sense as to how they go about reasoning through things. Alpha's field functions are external (Ti,Si), so they develop that unity and coherence on the top level and essentially blast away at the different layers uniformly (by placing Fe? detonators at various Ne points in the rock, so to speak) while Gamma's field functions are internal (Ni, Fi), so they have this underpinning awareness of the underlying process and context on the bottom level. I see action happening at the bottom of the ocean churning up stuff, with Te bubbles coming up to the surface and expanding upon contact with the surface- maybe Se is the different shapes the bubbles take when they expand when they reach the surface, or the inherent charge that created each bubble.

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    There are at least two conditions to be completed for a successful relationship between Duals. Firstly between the partners there has to be at least a minimal mutual attraction. Secondly and most importantly is that the partners are truly striving for the same or similar things. This may include common interests and/or life goals. Partners that are both seriously thinking about building a family are a good example. Logically saying: two halves of the same whole must not repel or move in the different directions, otherwise the whole will break into pieces. Relations of Duality also go through several stages. The first stage sometimes can be really tense. It is like a new engine that requires a "run in" first. If relations crumble it normally happens in the first stage. The more stages completed by Duals the more unbreakable their relationship.


    INstinct sort out a person's life goal, when you read this,

    http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=80:80

    of the different Instinct subtype, it explains the different views on life and approahed every instinct stacking subtype has, just click on the one-nine stack and you are able to see how each enneagram type, even tho they are similar, can has vastly different lifeviews, which then explains the above paragrapgh how your dual partner must also strivie for the same thing, "two halves of the same whole must not repel or move in the different directions, otherwise the whole will break into pieces."
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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