Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Knowing about socionics intertype relations - what's the point?

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,763
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Knowing about socionics intertype relations - what's the point?

    I haven't found much use for knowing my intertype relations with others.
    I am an INTj. If my friend is an ENTj, socionics only explains the pros and cons of the relationship. Socionics only helps me to understand the relationship - and that's it.

    There is no benefit in this.

    If Socionics told me how to improve relations with an ENTj (for example) then perhaps I can say there is a value to knowing intertype relations. But Socionics does not do this.

    Or is socionics hinting that I need to ditch friends (and family) that are not in the Alpha quadrable?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Florida
    TIM
    ILE 8w9
    Posts
    3,249
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Knowing intertype relations - whats the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo
    I am an INTj. If my friend is an ENTj, socionics only explains the pros and cons of the relationship. Socionics only helps me to understand the relationship - and that's it.

    There is no benefit in this.

    If Socionics told me how to improve relations with an ENTj (for example) then perhaps I can say there is a value to knowing intertype relations. But Socionics does not do this.

    Or is socionics hinting that I need to ditch friends (and family) that are not in the Alpha quadrable?
    I do not understand, do you want someone to tell you what to do?

    I can really only speak for myself on this issue. The intertype relations theory gives me some predictability in dealing with others, that is it.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

  3. #3
    Creepy-Waddles W.

    Default

    Socionics says that people that act in certain ways have observable "tendencies".
    when these tendencies are mixed with persons of differing tendencies observable reactions can be noted. that's all. "If I like it this way, and you like it that way, then how are we going to both get what we want if our needs infringe on the needs one another?"

    It seems that alot of people put alot of faith into this stuff so I don't see whats so wrong with using it as a guide to helping one understand the needs of others as well as your own needs.

    Where does socionics say people should only associate with their own quadra? A quadra is just a group of people around that have enough in common and rely enough upon one another that conflict is generally less likely. a theory but a neat one, and one that i know from personal experience has some merit.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,763
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    All I am saying is that I wish the intertype relations stuff had some practical benefits - which it apparantly does not.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Putting yourself in the other person's position helps.

    Assessing the reality of contextual factors is also essential. For example, right now my actual supervisor at work is my socionics supervisee. This is one actual relationship where being conscious of that is helpful. Like, I don't think it would work very well for me to follow the natural flow and try to supervise my supervisor, right? So here's what I've been doing: she's istj and I am entp, so I try to meet her with this has been very successful, since is her dominent function, my auxiliary. I talk to her about facts and data, she augments the discussion with even greater details about said facts and data, together we plan, based upon logical analysis of facts and data. It's working well so far. I She also helps with . Although I can usually assess emotional/social/political dynamics pretty well often I'm not sure what to do. I think her is stronger than mine but not by a lot, so she's had to learn it, too, which makes her more familiar with the learning process, which in turn makes it easier for her to teach.

    I don't do with her since I think she would get annoyed. As a matter of fact, a lot of people get annoyed with Right now, I hardly ever use this to full effect unless I am in a situation where I am being specifically asked to brainstorm.

    It's probably unrealistic for a theory to provide specific directions and techniques for managing relationships. Socionics does provide a map, though by outlining probable dynamics of certain kinds of relationships.

    I thought that looking at applications might be one reason to have a forum . . . to try to look at how this theory can be applied to specific situations and relationships, but hey, I'm entp and entp's always try to do that.
    Entp
    ILE

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,763
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just understanding relations makes no difference to the relations - so there is no point bothering with it.

    The point I made about ditching friends and family who are not in Quardrable A (considering that I am an INTj) was meant to be a joke.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tallinn
    Posts
    595
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You're an interesting person ,Hugo. You seem to be so worried. It even gives me an idea, that you are Ethical type actually dealing with some problems, which made the Socionics Type Assistant to lie. And it's finds evidences with the facts ,that you don't generate the ideas, how to use Socionics to overcome with the problem you posted above,that generating ideas is Ne stuff;you are interested in making relations better, which is not the avarage interest of INTJs; and you earlier did the post, where you asked how to raise your child as Ne type, which sounds a lot like you've being actually TiNe in SUPERID,which makes you as ESFJ by Socionics;ESFJ much interests in how to use Socionics with dealing with people.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,763
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Any suggestion that I am anything other than an INTj is incorrect.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tallinn
    Posts
    595
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Any suggestion that I am anything other than an INTj is incorrect.
    Based on which facts?

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Point of interest: I've been editing my above post so it makes better sense. That is, for anyone who thought they already read it, it's been updated.

    Or, don't read it.
    Entp
    ILE

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kaiod21
    You're an interesting person ,Hugo. You seem to be so worried. It even gives me an idea, that you are Ethical type actually dealing with some problems, which made the Socionics Type Assistant to lie. And it's finds evidences with the facts ,that you don't generate the ideas, how to use Socionics to overcome with the problem you posted above,that generating ideas is Ne stuff;you are interested in making relations better, which is not the avarage interest of INTJs; and you earlier did the post, where you asked how to raise your child as Ne type, which sounds a lot like you've being actually TiNe in SUPERID,which makes you as ESFJ by Socionics;ESFJ much interests in how to use Socionics with dealing with people.
    On the other hand, I've seen intj's have problems in relationships. They know this and try to do something. Or not.
    Entp
    ILE

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tallinn
    Posts
    595
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    On the other hand, I've seen intj's have problems in relationships. They know this and try to do something. Or not.
    Like we all have. INTJs are only humans, aren't they? But I've heard on this forum, that INTJs try to look calm, when they are having situation, where you have to show your emotions. This doesn't sound as a type, who tries to councel his/her others relations.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Point taken. And you do make a good point in your above analysis.
    Entp
    ILE

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tallinn
    Posts
    595
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    But reading this post through second time, I noticed some logical argumentation and this sounds a lot like with . It reminded me Admins maner of talking. Sorry, Hugo, I made mistake, because you can read posts with different emotions and that makes you interpret them sometime with 180' difference.

    BTW, how old are you?

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,763
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    Putting yourself in the other person's position helps.

    Assessing the reality of contextual factors is also essential. For example, right now my actual supervisor at work is my socionics supervisee. This is one actual relationship where being conscious of that is helpful. Like, I don't think it would work very well for me to follow the natural flow and try to supervise my supervisor, right? So here's what I've been doing: she's istj and I am entp, so I try to meet her with this has been very successful, since is her dominent function, my auxiliary. I talk to her about facts and data, she augments the discussion with even greater details about said facts and data, together we plan, based upon logical analysis of facts and data. It's working well so far. I She also helps with . Although I can usually assess emotional/social/political dynamics pretty well often I'm not sure what to do. I think her is stronger than mine but not by a lot, so she's had to learn it, too, which makes her more familiar with the learning process, which in turn makes it easier for her to teach.

    I don't do with her since I think she would get annoyed. As a matter of fact, a lot of people get annoyed with Right now, I hardly ever use this to full effect unless I am in a situation where I am being specifically asked to brainstorm.

    It's probably unrealistic for a theory to provide specific directions and techniques for managing relationships. Socionics does provide a map, though by outlining probable dynamics of certain kinds of relationships.

    I thought that looking at applications might be one reason to have a forum . . . to try to look at how this theory can be applied to specific situations and relationships, but hey, I'm entp and entp's always try to do that.
    I think people are getting side tracked into something unimportant, that is, my type.

    I don't understand how you can say "I don't do Ne with her" when this is part of your type - unless of course you change your type when being with her - which according to Socionics is impossible.

    According to socionics your relationship with the istj will remain unchangeable.

    Therefore it appears there are no practical benefit to knowing about intertype relations. Either you are going to have problems in a relationship or you are not.

    Socionics fails to deal with improving intertype relations.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,763
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Don't get hung up about my type, and please don't treat me like an object.

    I would rather stick to the subject I have raised.

    Many thanks.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Didn't mean any offense . . . I was talking about intj's in general, not you specifically.

    Socionics helps a person to understand themselves better, helps you to become conscious of different parts of yourself, your strengths and weaknesses. Once you are conscious of behaviors which manifest your inherent strengths and weaknesses, you are then in a position to keep doing them, stop doing them, and/or change them.

    As you become more conscious, you can begin to start to stretch yourself in different ways. I'm probably a little biased in that I am 40 years old. If I go back in time to when I was, say 20 or so, I honestly cannot imagine myself having any control over .

    I have learned however, that unrestrained brainstorming, innovation, and inventiveness wears on people and that I only shoot myself in the foot if I continue with these behaviors in certain types of settings. But I've had some years to observe myself, evaluate what works and what doesn't, and to try to stretch myself in different ways.

    Will I ever be the ultimate feelings person, like esfj, for example? Maybe not. But I can consciously try to diminish the negative side of this weak area for myself. 4th function development could be an over-stretch, I don't know yet, since I'm just 40. Maybe by the time you're 60 you can have some success with 4th function development.

    Consequently, I don't necessarily completely disagree with you - you do come to life's table with a temperament, but what you do with your temperament and how you choose to express it is completely up to you, providing you are working to raise your consciousness. Becoming aware of your intertype relationships is but one aspect of this process.

    IMHO.
    Entp
    ILE

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    99
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    it's true, there isn't much out there about improving/manipulating the relationships (actually, there isn't much written about relationships at all). however, a lot of the stabilization of incompatible relations, when their dissolution is impossible, takes place rather automatically. you see conflictors walking on eggshells around one another, supervisors gently correcting their supervisees' mistakes, etc.

    given a motive, a lot of folks can project a fake type. this does not mean it changes internally, just that they can craft an exterior persona to suit their desires and needs. of course buying into it will lead to some serious psychological "problems" - both in theory under psychological models, and in reality (albeit it doesn't always fit the models to a T).

    socionics is a very unstable science, wherein established laws are virtually nonexistant. it is a murky sea of postulates and theories made by imperfect human beings. just because there is a website called www.socionics.com does not mean that every bit of information there is correct. if you are really interested in the patterns that exist in interpersonal relationships, you will need to hold as much of the relevant information out there about socionics and psychology to the litmus test of reality, analyze your findings, and try your damnedest to figure out why things did or did not fit the models you have to work with.

    in other words, socionics is not really for the faint of heart at this juncture in its development.


    lol that is some of the most ADD writing i've ever done, but i hope you can extract something intelligible out of it. cheers.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Wilmington NC USA
    Posts
    666
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I suppose intertype relations is just knowledge, it depends on what you want to do with it. I enjoy watching them play out, and it's added a bit of understanding(I think...) to a quasi-identical relation(i know they get as pissed off with me as I with them). But again, it doesn't actually change the information exchange. I just use Socionics to accept that most relationships do not change in a major way, so if you don't like someone, don't hang out with them, and if you do, hang out with them. I don't know. Just reinforces some common sense and satisfies intellectual curiosity.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    I suppose intertype relations is just knowledge, it depends on what you want to do with it. I enjoy watching them play out, and it's added a bit of understanding(I think...) to a quasi-identical relation(i know they get as pissed off with me as I with them). But again, it doesn't actually change the information exchange. I just use Socionics to accept that most relationships do not change in a major way, so if you don't like someone, don't hang out with them, and if you do, hang out with them. I don't know. Just reinforces some common sense and satisfies intellectual curiosity.
    Except that there are some relationships you can't really get away from, such as family and colleagues.
    Entp
    ILE

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Potential Benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo
    I don't understand how you can say "I don't do Ne with her" when this is part of your type - unless of course you change your type when being with her - which according to Socionics is impossible.

    According to socionics your relationship with the istj will remain unchangeable.

    Therefore it appears there are no practical benefit to knowing about intertype relations. Either you are going to have problems in a relationship or you are not.

    Socionics fails to deal with improving intertype relations.
    I do not quite understand what it is that you want from socionics. I see plenty of practical benefits, for example:

    -The post I linked to earlier
    oldforumlinkviewtopic-66.html
    Socionics helps you to avoid themes that others might find uncomfortable, alternatively you can make people shut up by pressing on the fourth function/Super-Ego block.

    -You learn to understand others. What they find easy and what difficult, what kind of help are they likely to appreciate. How they function internally, well maybe...

    -For example, As an INFJ I have ethics of emotions, Fe as my Function of Personal Knowledge, which means I can usually do it quite well, but do not usually spontaneously show that much emotions. Knowing socionics I try to show visible emotions to ISTJs and INTJs, because I know that Fe is their fifth, suggestive, or dual-seeking function, and in informal situations they need to see visible emotions or otherwise they may get suspicious of my motives. You can learn these basic rules for all types and all functions. They can be handy when you have to deal with people with otherwise poorly compatible types.

    -Socionics claims that relations of duality should be ideal for romantic relations. If you are not already hitched up you know what you should be looking for.

    -Last but not least, socionics helps you better understand yourself, and gradually develop you weaker functions. The way you perceive and act in the world is largely influenced by your type, but it is just one possible way, not "the golden standard". When you are better aware of your own instinctive reactions it is also easier to change them. Since I am INFJ I have Ti as my role function and thus I tend to presume that I should behave according to, or at least demonstrate my adherence to the composition of strict laws, standards, rules, instructions for the hierarchic structure of the nearest environment. - if you cannot see what you could do differently there is not much hope of personal growth.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Wilmington NC USA
    Posts
    666
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It helps me understand individuals as individuals, as people of no less value than myself, and it helps me understand that I can never really see it like that. You're right, you can't stop IM.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,158
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Socionics relations are there so that you know that there are 16 base relations that are possible, because I'm pretty sure that before socionics, you never even had a clue that there were actually types of relations and that it was finite. Now that you know you only have to study and prepare yourself to deal with these 16. No more fear of the uknown. Aside from that you can identify relationships that are oscillatory in nature that aren;t good for long term but that you seem to have been stuck inside of. You can also manipulate people with it by aranging specific types of interactions. When I go to the car dealership to get a good deal, I'm gunna bring with me my friend who is relation of supervision to the dealer, you can count on that. I can tell if my friend would mix will with my other friends. I can tell what kind of relations others are having, and why they like or maybe secretly hate one another. And most importantly I know that these relations are all a result of having our own values, that stem from us justifying our personal strenghts and weaknesses, and these justifications become a platform of who we are as a human, therefore we deffend ourselves from the conflicting views... but why not be above it? and learn everyones values, people will respect you more... take it from a guy who always feels unloved :-), its us that know how to get love best.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •