Analyzing a closed social system

[Smilingeyes]

Jennifer Murphy - Ad Sales Manager - ENTp-Ne **!


Alex Thomason - Attorney - ENTp-Ne **!!!


Tammy Lee - Stockbroker - ENTp-Ne ***!!


Kevin Shaw 24 Bank Manager - ENTp-Ne ****!!!


Tarek Saab - Hi-Tech Manager - ENTp *****!!!!


Marisa DeMato - Class Action Attorney - ENTp ***!!!


Ivana Ma - Venture Capitalist - ENTp *!!!


Frank Lombardi - Real Estate Developer - ENTp *!


Paul Tulip 26 Headhunter - ENTp-Ti **!!!!!


Michael Tarshi - Real Estate Developer - ENTp-Ti **!


D Trump - ENTp-Ti


Ian Stringer 26 Software Sales Manager - ESTp-Ti *!!


Ben Leary 29 Headhunter - ESTp-Ti ****!!!
No pic!

Nick Warnock - Copier Salesman - ESTp-Ti **!!!


Gerri Blackwood 33 Transport Development Manager - ESTp *!


Allie Jablon - Medical Sales Manager - ESTp *!!!!!


Adenike Ogundoyin 30 Restaurant Manager - ESTp ***!
No pic!

Tre Azam 27 Marketing and Design Consultant - ESTp ***!!!!!


Kelly Perdew - Military Intelligence Officer - ESTp ***!!!!


Adele Lock 29 Retail Manager - ESTp-Se ***!!


Stephanie Myers - Supply Chain Consultant - ESTp-Se ***!!!

[Smilingeyes]

Mark Lamkin - Wealth Manager - ESTp -Se ***!!!!!


Kristi Frank - Restaurant Owner -ESFp-Se ***!!!


Stacy Rotner - Attorney - ESFp-Se **!!


Chris Shelton - Real Estate Investor - ESFp - Se *****!!!!


Paul Callaghan 27 Ex-British Army Lieutenant - ESFp **!


Claire Young 28 Senior Retail Buyer - ESFp ***!!!!


John Willenborg - Marketing Director - ESFp ***!!!


Erin Elmore - Attorney - ESFp !!!!


Timothy Campbell 26 Transport Manager - ESFp ****!!!!


Naomi Lay 26 Advertising Sales Manager - ESFp ***!!!


Sandy Ferreira - Bridal Salon Owner - ESFp ***!!!


Kristi Caudell - Sales Executive - ESFp Fi ****!!!

[Smilingeyes]

Charmaine Hunt - Real Estate Consultant - ENFp -Fi **!


Alex Wotherspoon 24 Regional Sales Manager - ENFp-Fi **!!


Jason Curtis - Real Estate Manager - ENFp-Fi ***!!!


Nargis Ara 38 PhD Student - ENFp ****!!!


Rachel Groves 32 Charity Fundraiser - ENFp ***!


Nick Hewer


Nicole D'Ambrosio - Real Estate Broker - ENFp Ne**!!


Adam Israelov - Risk Manager - ENFp Ne ****!!

[Smilingeyes]

Kendra Todd - Real Estate Broker - INTj-Ne ****!!!!


Tammy Trenta - Wealth Manager - INTj-Ne **!!!!


Markus Garrison - Inventor - INTj Ne ***!


Sophie Kain 32 Quantum Physicist - INTj **!


Stefani Schaeffer - Defense Attorney - INTj *!!!!!


Toral Mehta - Investment Banker - INTj *!


Matthew Palmer 39 Mature Student - INTj-Ti **!!


Jennifer Crisafulli - Real Estate Agent - INTj-Ti *!!!!


Karen Bremner 34 Lawyer - INTj-Ti ***!!!!


Wes Moss - Private Wealth Manager - INTj-Ti ****!!!!


Omarosa Manigault-Stallworth - Political Consultant - ISTj-Ti *!!


George Ross - ISTj-Ti


Ben Stanberry 33 IT Consultant - ISTj-Ti ***!


Jenny Celerier 36 Sales Manager - ISTj - Ti **!!!


Rory Laing 27 Bankrupt Entrepreneur - ISTj-Ti ****!!!


Lindsay Bogaard 35 Communications Manager - ISTj **!

[Smilingeyes]

Maria Boren - Marketing Executive - ISTj-Se *!!!


Jennifer Maguire 27 Marketing Consultant - ISTj-Se **!!!


Kristen Kirchner - Real Estate Financier - ISTj-Se *!!


Jadine Johnson 27 Financial adviser - ISTj-Se *!!


Lenny Veltman - Trading Company Owner - ISTj-Se *****!!!


Marshawn Evans - Recent Law School Graduate - ISTj-Se ****!!!


Tara Dowdell - Senior Governor Management - ISFj-Se ****!!


Kwame Jackson - Investment Manager ISFj-Se *****!!!!!


Sara Dhada 25 International Car Trader - ISFj-Se ***!!!


Jennifer Massey - Attorney - ISFj ***!!!!!


Michelle Sorro - Real Estate Consultant - ISFj **!!


Leslie Bourgeois - Realtor - ISFj ***!!!


Summer Zervos - Restaurant Owner - ISFj *****!!!!


Ghazal Asif 23 Business Development Manager - ISFj ***!!!


Alexa Tilley 28 Management Consultant - ISFj-Fi ***!!!


Verna Felton - Business Manager - ISFj-Fi ***!


Muna Heaven - Family Law Litigator - ISFj-Fi *****!!!!


Sharon McAllister 30 Business Lecturer - ISFj - Fi **!!!!

[Smilingeyes]

Jennifer Wallen - Realty Company Owner - INFj Fi ***!


Jessie Connors - Chiropractic Business Owner - INFj-Fi ****!!


Margaret Mountford


Theresa Boutross - Psychotherapist - INFj **!!


Lucinda Ledgerwood 31 Risk Manager - INFj -Ne ****!!!!!


Raj Dhonota 30 Internet Entrepreneur - INFj-Ne ****!!!

[Smilingeyes]

Ok. so... at this point I'm not quite yet satisfied with the level of accuracy in the list above. I think I need to check each individual a few more times. After that, I'd like to start comparative analysis. If I have the time / can be bothered to.
...
I'm conflicted about which direction to start would be the best. There are individuals here, of whose type I'm just really certain at this point and I don't feel like wasting time discussing them. There are others of whose types I'm not certain at all. I feel they should be left for last because discussing other people first and becoming assured of their types so as to use social relations to type the more uncertain ones seems like the way to go.

I also feel I should make it known in some way what my personal feeling of different people is, both on their talents and their persona. Because while bias is impossible to remove completely, one should be aware of it and watch for it. I'm going to start with that... because it's easy, and kind of fun. (I expect to find gammas and deltas particularly moral and EJ types particularly talented, but let's see.)

Here's the subjective grading.
! Completely incompetent
!! Somewhat incompetent
!!! Nothing special
!!!! Talented
!!!!! Extremely talented

* Monstrous
** Kind of iffy
*** Fine by me
**** A good egg
***** Amazing character

[Smilingeyes]

I've been watching season 5 of the US apprentice as of late
At the start of the contest Tarek and Allie picked their teams after short introductions.

Tarek who I believe is ENTp picked, in order
Dan (ESTj? Si-negative anyway, so either this or ISFp)
Bryce (ESTj-Te)
Charmaine (ENFp)
Leslie (ISFj)
Theresa (INFj)
Lee (ENFj)
Summer (ISFj)
Lenny (ISTj)

while
Allie picked in order

Tammy (INTj)
Andrea (ESTj)
Michael (ENFp)
Sean (ESFj)
Roxanne (INFp)
Stacy (INTp)
Pepi (INFp)
Brent (ESTj?)

By season's end there are the following relationships that appear strong and important
Sean (ESFj) has a crush on Tammy (INTj)
Sean (ESFj) esteems very highly and picks in his team Andrea (ESTj)
Sean (ESFj) likes and works well with Lee (ENFj)
Sean initially likes and is lovey dovey with Roxanne (INFp) and Allie (ESTp) but is later on demonised by the two.
Sean (ESFj) jokes about Brent and thinks he sucks but doesn't hate him on a personal level. Brent OTOH likes Sean.
Sean (ESFj) thinks Michael (ENFp) is ridiculous.
Sean (ESFj) is impressed by the talents of and chooses in his final team Tarek (ENTp) even though they didn't work in the same team initially
Sean is chosen by and liked by D Trump (ENTp)
Sean is easy friends with alphas and EJ types. The typing of him as ESFj based on the social relations is very strong. He is also very animated, slightly selfish, given to emotional displays and very ESFjish in many small ways. I feel the typing is strong.

Lee (ENFj) is a strong ally of Lenny (ISTj)
Lee (ENFj) likes Sean (ESFj) and works well with him.
Lee (ENFj) chooses in his final team based on Lenny's recommendations and possibly some personal affinity Roxanne (INFp) and Pepi (INFp) creating a team of betas
Lee (with possible exception of Lenny) is the only person of whom it is shown that he likes Brent and vice versa.
Lee (ENFj) is hated by Charmaine (ENFp)
Lee (ENFj) has an uneasy relationship with Leslie (ISFj)
Lee (ENFj) is initially strongly disliked by Tarek (ENTp) but they learn to work together later
Lee (ENFj) thinks Michael (ENFp) is ridiculous
Lee (ENFj) is later on hired by D Trump (ENTp)
Lee is often called a politician. He makes strategic appraisals an pushes his points strongly but expects others to make decisions and actions for him often. He appraises loyalty highly and he tends to laugh when something bad happens to someone he dislikes.
I think the typing for him as ENFj is very strong.

Allie (ESTp) makes a strong alliance with Roxanne (INFp) lasting over and beyond the contest)
Allie (ESTp) and Roxanne (INFp) pursue and form an alliance with Tammy (INTj) to initially get rid of Andrea (ESTj) (whom Roxanne hated already) and later on to destroy Sean (ESFj) (with whom they are initially friends and have lie-ins) and finally to get rid of Tammy too.
Allie is a cunning and strong and aggressive woman who implys at one point that she's going to kill Andrea and spread his blood over the boardroom's walls. Roxanne is a social manipulator who tries to hang behind the back of strong people, and a yes-woman who hides it when she's of a different opinion with the leader. I hate both.

Tammy (INTj) works well with Andrea (ESTj) but later on allies against her.
Tammy is hated by Brent
Tammy is IJ-Ne. The fact that she chooses Allie and Roxanne over Sean and Andrea is to me an indication of INTj>INFj, though I initially thought of her social behaviour that INFj might be possible. OTOH she does show some Fi attitudes towards Sean. She just might be a social idiot.

Tarek (ENTp) initially has a good relationship with Charmaine (ENFp) but it sours later when Tarek allies with Lee (ENFj)
Tarek disappoints Trump ENTp and is continuously mocked by him.

Charmaine (ENFp) has an alliance with Theresa (INFj) and Leslie (ISFj)
Charmaine works well with Michael (ENFp)

Lenny (ISTj) immediately forms a liking and a long-lasting (even after the contest) relation with Summer (ISFj)

Stacy (INTp) easily talks Pepi (INFp) on her side. And both hate Brent immediately.

Bryce (ESTj) really likes Leslie (ISFj) and Charmaine (ENFp)
Bryce works fine with Theresa (INFj)
Bryce works ok with Tarek (ENTp)
Bryce has fights with Lenny (ISTj)

The really difficult typings are Dan and Brent.
Dan is difficult because he just shows so little of himself. His Si is intuitively obvious and he appeared to have some affinity with Tarek (ENTp) but whether he's ESTj or ISFp or maybe ISTp I'm not quite sure.

Brent... He's completely incompetent in everything and there are people of all quadras that hate and make fun of him. He appears to function ok with Lee and Lenny of the opposing team. And he appears to like both Lee and Sean, though not vice versa with Sean. He is so incompetent that I can't appraise him as having talent in the dominion of any function either. I don't think he's ENFj. He's fundamentally positive, but when he argues, he acts like something I might expect from an ESTj. But the few good relations he has and his aggressiveness makes me wonder if he still might be an ISTj. Either way, he easily approaches rationals, both in positive and negative, so I think he's rational himself. My intuition actually says he's ESFj-Si, but I can't use that to explain why he has better relations with ISTj and ENFj than with ESTj and INTj. I'm a bit stumped by him.

Pepi and Stacy are kind of weak on the relations material, but their behaviour fits quite nicely and seems quite archetypal so I don't really have that many doubts.

In the last episode the people are asked to vote on who they like more, Sean or Lenny.

This is slightly according to memory...

Sean ESFj is voted by
Tarek (ENTp)
Dan (ESTj? Si-negative anyway, so either this or ISFp)
Bryce (ESTj-Te)
Charmaine (ENFp)
Leslie (ISFj)
Theresa (INFj)
Andrea (ESTj)
Tammy (INTj)

Lee (ENFj)
Summer (ISFj)
Lenny (ISTj)
Allie (ESTp)
Michael (ENFp)
Roxanne (INFp)
Stacy (INTp)
Pepi (INFp)

Brent (ESTj?) votes for both

Except for Leslie and Michael people voted for the person quadratically closest to them. Leslie had a boardroom fight with Lee so that explains her vote. I lack a decent explanation for Michale liking Lee over Sean.

Anyway, most of the people are quite easily and rather strongly typable.

[Smilingeyes]

There have been a couple of hundred views after the latest batch of apprentice pics and season 5 analysis. I guess at least 50 people have been reading this. Any opinions on whether the direction I'm taking this is good? Any suggestions? Anything you'd like me to add? Any questions?

[eunice]

Kendra Todd - Real Estate Broker - ISFp -Fe ****!!!!

After watching that seasoin featuring Kendra, I have a soft spot for her as compared to the other contestants or even winners. In my opinion, she is someone whom a lot of employees could identify with because she seems rather down-to-earth, understanding and able to connect with all levels of people.

My impressions of her:

1) Initially, she seems rather low-key and quiet. However, she is someone who is able to stand up for what she believes in and it is evident when she spoke up for one contestant (can't remember who) on how he had been made the scapegoat for elimination even though the rest were pointing fingers at him.

2) She does not take shortcuts in completing her tasks and she does them with hardwork and integrity. I definitely disagree on how her other team members had forsaken her during the car advertisement task when she was the Project Manager. She had great ideas but they chose to play her out because they were in cahoots and had nothing to lose.

3) Shes does not believe delegating work fully to others and been passive in terms of her contributions. She has been an active contributor so far and is able to identify with the rest of her team members. Be it the role of a Project Manager or team member, she has played that role very efficiently.

4) Kind and never stabs people on their backs.

In my opinion, she is the best Apprentice winner so far.

Smilex, on the side note, I would like to know why she has been typed as Fe-ISFp. She could be INFj as well imo.

Another favorite of mine is Kevin Allen:



Impressions of him:

1) Logical, straightward, matter-of-factly. Likeable traits imo.

2) His actions speak louder than his words.

3) He understands very well what consumers want. Instead of coming out with something innovative, he believes in selling something useful rather than flashy and impractical.

4) States the facts and does not try to twist them.

[Smilingeyes]

Thanks Eunice. Season 3 is as good a place to go as any, I think.

These were my initial impressions on these people. (As you've seen elsewhere)

Kendra Todd - Real Estate Broker - ISFp -Fe
Tana Goertz - Sales Executive - ENTj -Te
Craig Williams - Shoeshine Business Owner - INTp-Te
Alex Thomason - Attorney - ENTp-Ti
Bren Olswanger - Prosecutor - ENTj-Ni
Chris Shelton - Real Estate Investor - ESFp - Se
Angie McKnight - Gym Franchise Owner - ENFj-Ni
Stephanie Myers - Supply Chain Consultant - ENFp-Fi
Erin Elmore - Attorney - ESFp-Fi
John Gafford - Technology Firm Owner - ENTj-Te
Audrey Evans - Real Estate Agent - ENTp-Ne
Tara Dowdell - Senior Governor Management - ESFp-Fi
Michael Tarshi - Real Estate Developer - ESTp-Se
Kristen Kirchner - Real Estate Financier - ESTp-Ti
Danny Kastner - Marketing Technology Firm Owner - ESFj-Si
Verna Felton - Business Manager - ISFj-Fi
Brian McDowell - Real Estate Broker - ESTj
Todd Everett - Sales Manager - ESTj-Te

The people on this season in general... well... they were very bad mostly.

Kevin is probably my favourite of the season too. Quite obviously, him being a capable identical and all that.
Kendra, I've mentioned in a couple of places that I'm not happy with my current typing of her. I had difficulties getting a grasp on her attitude... but INFj... it fits actually very well. She didn't strike me as one, but it fits her social relations quite good. I need to rewatch some episodes, but I think you are very possibly right about her.
I'm going to reslot her pic already because INFj fits so well...

Out of all the apprentices that Trump has hired, he's said to have most disparaged Kendra in public. ENTp-Ti - INFj relationships being sour, I believe that. (The other one was Piers Morgan (Entp-Ti - ESTj-Te relations... both thought the other was evil in a bottle)...
Also, several Te+Si contestants have most implied that they've liked Kendra most of the previous apprentices.
Most INFjs make a characteristic error very early in the apprentice contest. They either start preaching to Trump or the team which gets them quickly fired. Or they just collapse, implode and disappear from the picture. Kendra didn't. Instead, Kendra seems in many ways like a dynamic type, very reactive, tactical and all that. ... and so she doesn't feel like an INFj in that way... but... oooh... she could be ENFp-Fi. Damnit, I really need to watch the season again. I'll reallocate her to INFj for now though.

[Smilingeyes]

Continuing on season 3.

On this season, the initial teams were based on people either having a college degree:
Kendra Todd - Real Estate Broker
Alex Thomason - Attorney
Bren Olswanger - Prosecutor
Erin Elmore - Attorney
Michael Tarshi - Real Estate Developer
Danny Kastner - Marketing Technology Firm Owner
Todd Everett - Sales Manager
Verna Felton - Business Manager
Stephanie Myers - Supply Chain Consultant

or working their way up with little education:
Tana Goertz - Sales Executive
Craig Williams - Shoeshine Business Owner
Chris Shelton - Real Estate Investor
Angie McKnight - Gym Franchise Owner
John Gafford - Technology Firm Owner
Audrey Evans - Real Estate Agent
Kristen Kirchner - Real Estate Financier
Brian McDowell - Real Estate Broker
Tara Dowdell - Senior Governor Management

This season seems to have the weakest cast of all non-celebrity seasons in either US or UK. The season is also marked by lots of general in-fighting, backstabbing, whining and generally immoral treatment of team-mates. Also, particularly many individuals on this season seem like extroverts.

The first few episodes are particularly marked by fighting and there are hardly any firm friendships whereas there are many couples that really have trouble with each other.






Kristen wages Se-based war against Brian Si.

Verna takes the Se position against Danny's Si. Though Verna soon mellows out and becomes Danny's caretaking project.

Michael also takes the Se position and fights Danny's Si.

John takes the Ni position against Brian's Si.

Kendra defends Danny against Todd.

Angie defends Brian against Chris.

Erin throws herself at people and then happily backstabs them or attacks them face on as her feeling dictates.

Angie criticizes Kristen.

Chris is hated by most of his team.

Audrey whines about Chris and Kristen.

It's kind of annoying stuff to watch in general, a bad season made in some ways amusing by the weirdness of many participants.

.......

Anyway, starting with Todd.

Here's some excerpts from an interview:
Murtzcellanious: Murtz Jaffer Talks To Apprentice 3’s Todd Everett | Primetime Pulse

Murtz Jaffer: Obviously the first question is the one that everybody else has asked already. What does it feel like being the first one kicked off?
Todd Everett: Oh, it was devastating. Brutal. I mean I think to get there, you have to have a certain amount of success in your life and literally I think that everybody who gets there is capable of winning. So to be the first one off (and I think that I was one of the top candidates going into it), it\’s just devastating and brutal. It\’s one of those things where it\’s devastating and then you sort of get over it and move on. My philosophy is that the same thing that got me on the show is what got me kicked off. I step up in life. In order to win in life, you have to step up and I didn\’t come there to fly below-the-radar and coast my way to the top. I went there to test my skills against the top executives in the world. You give up so much to get there. I mean I literally gave up all my income, I left my job, I left my wife and two kids for almost three months. Once you\’re off the show, you still have to stay there. You can\’t just come right back home…

MJ: But then the question is why give it up? Why try out for the Apprentice in the first place?

TE: I think basically your question is why try out for the Apprentice?

MJ: Yeah, because if you\’re saying that you have to give up all this stuff, it sounds like you had to give up a lot of stuff. Going back, would you have done it again? Would you be willing to sacrifice the time with the family and your income and everything?

TE: Yeah, I\’d do it again in a heartbeat. That\’s just my philosophy in life. In order to realize your true greatness, you have to set yourself up for challenges. Some challenges you\’ll win and some challenges you\’ll lose. You can\’t take it to heart. I think the most important thing is to put yourself in the game of life. I think my whole premise for going on the show was to test my skills against other top executives in the world. People that were really at the top of their professions. It didn\’t work out for me, but it easily could have gone the other way and I could be in the Final Four. That\’s kind of what is skewed about the show. I think you only got like 12 hours to know these people and put them in key positions within the task. That\’s what makes that first project manager role so vital because you really don\’t know the group. You don\’t know how they are going to perform under pressure. They have never been in those tasks before. It\’s not an advisable position to be that first project manager.

MJ: I guess (judging by your take) that you had no aspirations to not go to college before you got to Miami?

TE: Ironically enough, I was never a great student in highschool. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I pride myself being a street-smart sort instead of a book-smarts guy. I found after highschool, that I was really at a crossroads. I didn\’t want to stay in my same town all my life. In order for me to really set things up for myself later on, I felt like I really needed to take a stab at college and do it the right way. I went to a community college for a little while, got straight A\’s, and then transferred to the University of Miami where I got straight A\’s too.

MJ: Could you tell me a little bit about \’No Fear\’?

TE: No Fear was one of my latest companies. I was a sales manager. No Fear is an international sports apparel company and I was a sales manager there for about five years and did really well. Before that, I owned and operated a restaurant with my wife, out in Pacific Palisades, California.

MJ: What kind of restaurant was that?

TE: It was like a full breakfast and full lunch cafe.

MJ: Why did you leave that?

TE: I left that to go to No Fear. I left that \’cause my wife and I figured out… it was one of those things where you are searching for that one gig where you feel right in. Although we were making good money and we were owners of our own business and we were making good money, we just didn\’t feel right. We didn\’t like the restaurant business. We weren\’t having fun. We didn\’t like going to work everyday. It was at a time when people were asking for us to sell it and we decided to take them up on it and move to San Diego. At that point we were looking to raise kids and start a family and we didn\’t want to do it in LA. If you don\’t know the difference between LA and San Diego. It\’s a vastly different type of community. Where we live it\’s a beach community. It\’s very communal-oriented. Lotta neighborhoods on the beach. It\’s a great place to raise kids. In LA, it\’s very fast-paced and city-like…

MJ: Almost Apprentice-like?

TE: Yeah, exactly. Nothing against LA, I just wanted to give my kids more of a beach lifestyle growing up.

MJ: Were you surprised that Kendra turned on you?

TE: Kendra was the only one that said that I deserved to be fired. That\’s what I was kind of bummed about. You didn\’t really get a proper perspective. They made Danny out to be the scapegoat. He really wasn\’t man. He deserved to go down as much as I did.

MJ: I agree, but then the question is you had seen the show before. Anyone who has seen the show would know not to become the first project manager and seeing a guy dress like Danny, there is no way that I would give him a responsibility like marketing.

TE: I don\’t know about that. I get what you\’re saying. That\’s what Danny does. Danny is one of the most successful people on the Apprentice. He owns his own marketing firm. He\’s a CEO of one of the world\’s biggest marketing firms. He has some of the top 10 Fortune 500 companies on his client list. He is a brilliant and talented person but he just couldn\’t get it together on that marketing task. I don\’t want to give up too much but you\’ll see a whole new side of Danny on the next episode (second episode). I just think that he came out of the gate on too much of a wacky form. He didn\’t stick to the basics of what The Apprentice is all about. I think he got off on some tangents.

MJ: When you saw that he was on your team with the guitar and the whole rah-rah speech, you must have been concerned.

TE: I thought it was corny but I thought it was the first day. Everybody was letting it all hang out. Just let it be. He\’s the first one that grabbed the dossier when we came back to the room. He started going through the motions of putting it all together, almost as if he was going to be the project manager. Since it was the restaurant task, I felt like I had to step up and become the project manager. Trump and all of them knew that I used to own a restaurant. I don\’t regret that choice. That\’s how I play life. Was I devastated and taken aback by being the first one off, yes. But that\’s what got me on the show. Having the balls enough to step out and be successful in life.

MJ: I completely agree. Do you think that is going to hurt the show in the long run?

TE: Not only that, what I find to be disappointing is that now the people that are going on The Apprentice are simply tools to pitch national products for people. It\’s not about whether you can succeed personally at any individual task. For me, it was losing its luster of being an original format of young executives striving to succeed at these individual tasks. Now, I think that they are making the tasks so hard that they\’re almost impossible.

MJ: You said that you watched the first and second seasons of the show. Are there any contestants that you identified with?

TE: I would say that the first season, Troy reminded me of myself. Troy and maybe Bill. The second season, I want to say Chris and John. They were young, solid individuals that strived hard in life and obtained a fair amount of success. All of those guys did really well.

MJ: On your cast, who was the person that you liked the most, liked the least, would hire to win, and fire next?

TE: Like the most? I liked Brian and Michael. Brian and Michael were really good friends of mine. Liked the least? I don\’t really know them. I wasn\’t there long enough to have bad blood for any of them. It\’s hard to say who I would want to win. I am watching the episodes unfold with you guys. I am going to say John and Alex (one from each side). Fire next? (laughs). I don\’t really know how they performed…

MJ: So no aspirations to do the whole TV and speaking gigs?

TE: No, I don\’t think so. I talked to a lot of highschool and junior high kids and my message to them is pretty simple. In order to win at life, you gotta get in the game. It\’s not whether you win or lose, it\’s just the fact that you have the guts to get in the game.

........

In the show Todd is a low-key character. He pushes himself forward, is very extrovert functionally. He is also clearly negative, taciturn. He's also an intellectual analyst. He believes in solid hard work. He has a habit of giving praise liberally in a way that clearly shows he isn't actually believing his own praise. (emotion-creation). The two types that are believable for him are INTj and ESTj.

He singles out people that he likes or feels kinship with, people who are mostly extrovert males.

...

His apprentice interview is sort of clear ESTjish

How do you define success?
Success is being happy and healthy. Success is being able to provide the essentials for your family (food, clothing, shelter, love, guidance, education). Success is being able to help this world become a better place.
What have you learned from watching previous seasons of The Apprentice?
That if you want to be The Apprentice you MUST step up and earn it!

Why should you be the next Apprentice?
Because I have the personal and professional skills to perform the job at the highest level.

...

Anyway... given that he appears to be strongly ESTj and I identify with him, what can we figure about the people he mentions liking...

Brian (I believe ESFj)
Chris (I believe ISTp)
Bill (I believe INFp)
Troy (I believe ENTj)
Michael (I believe ESTp)
John Willenborg (I believe ESFp)


So what's the deal? I think he's not that good at recognizing who's his kind of people. ESTj usually aren't. In the task his choices for his seconds in command were Alex and Danny. (ENTp and ESFj). He almost certainly would've received better support from Verna, Erin or Kendra. I wonder if Todd's slightly chauvinistic?

ALso...

a piece of news from
reality blurred + Apprentice 3's Todd embarrasses himself.

As if being the first person to be fired from The Apprentice 3 wasn’t embarrassing enough, Todd Everett is staying in the quasi-spotlight by running around New York half naked. According to Page Six, at nightclub Cain, “a shirt-less Everett and his lusty ladyfriend were spotted engaging in ‘inappropriate behavior’ in a banquette and ‘were asked to take it somewhere else.’” He then reportedly bragged about what he’d received from his companion. Then, “three days later, Everett dropped his drawers again at a Webster Hall benefit for the School Bus Rock Foundation hosted by another ‘Apprentice’ contestant, Danny Kastner,” Page Six says. During an auction, he appeared in his underwear, and once on stage, “gave himself a wedgie, turned his back to the crowd and proceeded to shake his virtually bare behind like a stripper.” His humbling display resulted in a bid of $50.

...which makes me wonder about a) is this true and if so b) is this guy a moron?
Anyway, I do think I'm an identical, probably, with this guy, but I'm very unimpressed by him.

Also... if Kendra is INFj as supposed atm, why does she defend Danny ESFj instead of Todd ESTj, and strongly too?

....

Anyway, I think Todd Everett can be labeled as ESTj. Later on in the series Kendra has trouble with two other Te people, Craig and Tana. So it basically seems that she has trouble with people who are high Te.

[Smilingeyes]

Brian McDowell. The second guy to take the plunge.
I have to change my opinion of him to ESFj-Si. He makes this man-crush eulogy about DTrump that makes no sense at all for Te+Si. He gets all jumpy-happy about getting a free viking hat. He has a terrible fight with John ENTj-Te. He's just... too all over the place to fit Te+Si. Anyway, he fights with most of his team, particularly Kristen Ti+Se and John ENTj-Te. Only one to defend him is Angie.

Brian's interview reinforces the image:
Brian, 29, hails from Philadelphia and is a born salesman. He turned down a full paid scholarship to college and with only a high school diploma started his own business. A self-made millionaire from selling glow-in-the-dark necklaces, he now holds the federal trademark for GLOWLITES. Brian is best described as an entrepreneur and is currently running five businesses, most notably a real estate office serving New Jersey and Pennsylvania. His most recent venture is the creation of Realadex, Inc., cutting edge software for real estate professionals. In Brian's spare time he enjoys performing magic.

I actually know two magicians, both happen to be ESFj, otoh I know quite a few ESFjs.

There's a youtube video about Brian hanging around with Michael Tarshsi in the audience of a pageant. ESFj and ESTp. I guess they can hang.

...

Next guy to go was Danny. He got the kick for basically hating Michael so much that he tried to play chicken with D Trump and force a firing. So, basically I'm supposing that one ESFj can hang with the ESTp, while another can't. Is that impossible? No. But it makes me wonder a bit. Anyway, Brian is clear Si, so the only other type I could figure for him would be ISTp-Si. And that fits even worse with a friendship with Michael.

Danny, I believe is also an ESFj-Si.

Danny, 39, grew up in Cleveland where he left high school early to accept an academic scholarship to Cleveland State University. After earning his BA, Danny's creativity began to drive his academic and professional direction. He completed graduate coursework in music composition at Boston University, where he later joined the faculty, and studied at MIT's famed Media Lab. Danny's vision for combining art with commerce led him to develop several successful media and technology ventures. He is the founder, CEO and chief visionary for POPstick, a leader in innovating new media technologies. When Danny is out of the boardroom, he can be found writing and performing rock operas and symphonies. His musical talents have earned him four national composition awards.

How do you define success?
Become yourself and change the world. Success is really building a life around your true passions, talents, loves and style. You must tie all of this together into one identity. I'm a neo-nerd hipster, without the typical business suit and tie clone background, who found a way to synergize my interests and talents as an inventor / pianist / guitarist / singer / songwriter / filmmaker / fashionista / all-around renaissance man to create a pioneering national marketing technology company. That's success and I like it! It's also a recipe that I believe anyone can follow to lead a very rewarding and happy life.

Now, take this flow of great fortune and make a difference with it. Wake up each day and decide you are going to spread the happiness you've created - to brighten up someone else's life. Regardless of what's in your wallet, you are only as successful as the friends and relationships you build and the change you effect, for the better, to the world around you.
What have you learned from watching previous seasons of The Apprentice?
That Donald Trump wants people who are:


Decisive

Prepared

Willing and able to defend themselves and their actions

Willing to fail

Demonstrate leadership by example

Speak their mind (even if it takes you to the ledge)

Supportive of other leaders once a decision is made
You must be smart enough to go with the flow and realize that Donald Trump will change his mind in what he values most each day - or boardroom for that matter!
Why should you be the next Apprentice?
Donald Trump is not looking for clones. He's an old school business pro that runs a tight ship, making a ton of dough. But the Trump brand can scale to make more cash. Sure, Donald Trump is a marketing genius. But as a classic guy, he needs a "New Mouse Trap" and I'm an innovative marketing visionary on the leading edge of the next big thing. Donald Trump's brand and my leadership in new technologies and marketing will become a force to build a bigger brand with a worldwide social network of Donald Trump fans. This will be the Trumpster of the Future. (Did that just sound like an infomercial?)


Interests
I'm a creative child into: social networking, social marketing, social network marketing, pianos (I have six, at last count, 50% of which are of the grand variety, scattered between the 617-Boston, 212-NYC and 310-LA area codes), piano playing, music making in general, music in general, filmmaking (especially documentary), publishing, and - oh yeah, and I just started a new clothing line since Leisure Suits are a passion (look out, P.Diddy!).

Favorite Music
Pop: Bjork (Gudmundsdottir), Cake, Coldplay, Death Cab for Cutie, Foo Fighters, John Lennon, Nellie McKay (Get away from me - Please!), Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins, The Beatles, Todd Rundgren, U2, Weezer, Paul Westerberg, Zwan; Classical: Bela Bartok, Gyorgi Ligeti, Igor Stravinsky, Witold Lutoslawski; Jazz/Blues: Bill Evans, Duke Ellington, Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, McCoy Tyner, Miles Davis, Ray Bryant, Freddie King, Joe Bonamassa; Hip-Hop/R&B: Black Eyed Peas (their earlier stuff, not their recent pop-schlock), Kayne West, Pharcyde, Tribe Called Quest

Favorite Books
John Lennon Playboy Interviews, The Literary Lennon, The Love You Make: An Insider's Story of the Beatles, Beatle! The Pete Best Story, Stuart Sutcliffe and His Lonely Hearts Club (yes, there's definitely a Fab 4 thread going here), The Electronic Cottage, Flow, Google Hacks, The Music of Life (Hazrat Inayat Khan), Loose Balls (about the ABA, get your mind out of the gutter), Radical Honesty, T.S. Eliot: Four Quartets, Mary Kate Olsen with Ashley Olsen: Secrets of Teen Cryogenic Freezing for Fun and Profit

Favorite TV Shows
Curb Your Enthusiasm, strictly on DVD, though I'm simply much too refined for any cable or antenna where I reside. Also I think My Big Fat Obnoxious Boss is hilarious really and I want to see those people on The Today Show!

Favorite Movies
Docs: Dogtown and Z-Boys (I still skate with Alva on occasion - sike!), The Fog of War, DiG!, Gimme Shelter, Tupac: Resurrection, Crumb (which I've never seen, but I know I'd like); Not Docs: Himmel ber Berlin (Wings of Desire), Groundhog Day, Moulin Rouge (I'm serious, if you don't get that movie then we might have a hard time getting along), Spinal Tap, Blade Runner, Hard Day's Night, Kill Bill Vol. 2, Dancer in the Dark, Fear of a Black Hat, Reds, The Work of Director Spike Jonze, Matrix 3 (it's very Neo after all), LOTR I, II, III (pure epic mastery), The Rutles, Cremaster 1, Cremaster 2, Cremaster 4, Cremaster 5 (Cremaster 3 was just too commercial for me)

...

Danny too is all over the place. Anyway, he shows very good Si-caretaking of Verna in episode 2, even though Verna doesn't initially like him. He shows fighting with ESTp (Michael) (who threatens him with bodily harm) (though the two apparently managed to appear at a party together later on: . He is appreciated by Todd though they end up arguing in the boardroom.

Anyway, Danny is a flake, but he's a good guy. He is creative, and an ideas person, but also very physical. One might question whether Danny should be considered INFj. But he's just too extroverted for that. And also his trademark cries of "Unbelievable!" are just so Fe.

Anyway, I'm happy with ESFj-Si...

....


Oh yeah, I forgot about Verna. That's because she didn't get fired. She quit.
She first acts strong and sort of antagonistic towards Danny ESFj. Later on she also sort of fights with Michael ESTp. After that she collapses, gets dragged back by Carolyn Kepcher ISFp and goes on a tirade about how she has so much to learn and how she appreciates everyone around her. She doesn't want to make a big number of herself and when Erin confronts her, she just gives up. She's ISFj-Fi.

In her exit interview she states:
“I have no regrets whatsoever. It was time for me to go,” she says that she didn’t quit because of illness. Instead, cryptically, she says that “something happened that I unfortunately cannot get into detail [about] because it is part of my nondisclosure agreement. But it questioned my integrity, and I thought, ‘This show is not worth it.’” She adds, “I was mad. I was like, ‘This is not even acceptable. Goodbye! I just don’t want to have any part of this and you know why.’ Business is business and gaming is gaming, and I was there to do some serious business. Give me pressure, give me stress, give me a high-intensity work environment and I am all for that. But give me bickering and backstabbing and ‘Let’s fight for camera time’ and I don’t want it.” Verna also reveals that she was wandering the streets looking for a ride, but couldn’t find one because candidates have all of their money taken away from them, and says that she actually left during the motel task, not just before the third task.

Obvious Ij-Fi. Obviously I like her.

Here's her nbc-interview:
How do you define success?
$$ in the bank... Just kidding. Actually, I try not to confuse success with fame and fortune. I define success as being able to take care of my family and my life's needs - enjoying each day as it comes. Looking at my children and knowing that I am teaching them how to be good people, driven, and to have goals in life. I define success as looking forward to each day, and being considered the best at what I do. When people can look at you to fix their hardest problems, and have no doubts that you are able to do it... you have achieved success. When you can face each day with anticipation of what's ahead, instead of dreading what's to come, you have achieved success. Success to me means that I don't have to wait for things to happen, but I am the one who can make them happen.
What have you learned from watching previous seasons of The Apprentice?
The main thing I have learned from watching previous episodes of The Apprentice is that anything can happen. We all hope to have good days, and will probably have some bad days too... just hope that your bad days are days when your team wins in the boardroom!

Why should you be the next Apprentice?
In life, it is not only about what you can achieve, but also about what you can learn and how you can put that experience to good use. A true apprentice takes advantage of every situation and becomes a better person, a better employee, and a better leader as a result. I should be the next Apprentice because I have all of those qualities. I am not afraid to take on the tough challenges, and enjoy making the seemingly impossible, possible. I am a hard worker, and willing to do what it takes to achieve the best results, and not sacrifice my integrity in doing so.

....


A bit more on Verna from T*** forums:

"I just saw Madame Lethargy on the Today show. She was actually quite entertaining and did make a modicum of sense. When Matt asked her if she felt bad because she took the spot of someone else on the show who would have stuck around, she said she didn't feel bad, because she earned her spot, and it was basically hers to do what she wished with it.

When Danny played the guitar, and sang a ditty to the show, Verna said, "You see now why I left?", and laughed. Earlier, she had mentioned that the main reason why she left the show was that she did not like the gaming atmosphere, the backstabbing, etc. She basically said, in not so many words, that she hated the other people in the suite. Oh, and she said she got tired of people competing for the camera. Which might mean she was ready for her close-up and someone got in the princess's way? "

Another T***-post:

" Feb 4, 2005 @ 11:56 am Post#127
I don't really have strong feelings about her, but she did annoy me a little this morning in a radio interview. Now that she's collected her thoughts, she tossed in a statement about a job interview being just as much about the candidate learning about and choosing the company as it is the company learning about and choosing a candidate. Then, unbelievably, she said that she would never want to work for a company like Trump's.

Sigh.

I wish she understood that it is the candidate's responsibility to learn as much about the company as possible BEFORE he or she applies for the job. When I hire employees, especially management employees, I write down a big fat X next to anybody who didn't do his or her research about what we do. It makes the person seem like a real moron, (or exceptionally lazy) if he or she couldn't even bother to call up the company web site before meeting me.

In Verna's case, gee, do you think she might have had a resource readily available to her to"learn" about the job, the interview process, and Trump? She said that she went through "a million tests and interviews" yet it didn't occur to her to check out season one on DVD while she went through the lengthy application process?

I'm sorry Verna, but you can't pull the "once I found out about the job, I decided that I wasn't the right person for them" crap. You had plenty of opportunity to figure that out before you applied, so the fact that you didn't figure this out until after the show started reflects very poorly on either your intelligence, your motivation, or your work ethic. If you want to say that this was a job interview, just like any other job interview, then I will hold you to the same standards as I hold a real life job applicant. Next time, do your research. "

[Smilingeyes]

The next two guys to go, Kristen and Michael were both Ti Se for a change. I've pre-typed both as ESTps, but I have to rewatch some material, think about the possibility of ISTj instead.

....

A Kristen Kirchner interview (excerpts):

Why did you decide to go on the show?
I decided to go on the show because I thought I could learn more about business... NOT THE CASE. I learned more about how NOT to express yourself and that you should always keep your mouth shut and definitely fly under the radar.

What did your family think about you being on the show?
My family and friends were so excited about me going on the show and were taken back and surprised at the way they "showed me".

What was your favorite part of being on the show?
My favorite part about being on the show was meeting some great people that I will be friends with for a very long time.

And your least favorite?
My least favorite was watching how they completely made EVERYONE WHO LOST LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT.. even some of the scenes were really not how things happened.

Do you think that you were accurately portrayed on the show?
I absolutely beyond a doubt was portrayed nothing like I really am. My friends watched in disgust!!

Is Donald Trump the same as he apprears on the show?Donald Trump in my opinion makes very poor decisions on the show and then is made to look like he made great decisions. I don't think the man really knows what is going on. If he did he would have made different
decisions.

If you were asked to go back into the boardroom for future shows would you?
Yes I would go back to the board-room so I could go face to face with THE DONALD again.

When you were Project Manager what were your strenghts and weaknesses?
My strengths were organization, being able to delegate, meeting time lines, and managing my team well.(Even though they showed otherwise). If you remember clearly the only one they showed complaining about me was
Audrey. When Networth saw the episode I got phone callsright away and they said *#@!. Most of them thought I did a fantastic job. My weaknesses, I should have put Audrey in a corner and told her to sit there and not help.

What were your thoughts when Donald said you were fired?
When Donald said I was fired my first thought was that my team is going to crumble without me. Only a few of us really worked hard. The others just, well, you know...the typical nothing.

Who do you think will win?
I think Tara will win. She is by far the most capable and intelligent on our team. Lets see if THE DONALD thinks so.

Tell us something about yourself that you have never shared before.
I am a softy. I always cry during love stories.

Are you friends with any of the other Apprentice cast members?
All of us talk all the time... Except no one really talks to Audrey. hmm.. Why is that.

----

Notice the aggression, willingness to fight Trump repeatedly. Also, probably more Se than Ti afterall. Notice the "I'm a softy, boohoo, people misunderstand me".

Also, indication that besides Brian and Audrey, their team was apparently rather socionically functional.

--------

While rewatching a couple more episodes I came to the conclusion that one should think that Kristen is actually the more Se than Ti. Also... I have to consider her ISTj rather than ESTp. She's more adamant about protecting her own reputation than taking someone else down. That's typically ISTjish. Also her "reasoning" that since her boyfriend works with films she's the correct person to do directing... just smacks of ISTj > ESTp. ESTps tend to be more down to earth, blood n'guts types whereas ISTjs tend to go on random rampages.

----

Michael OTOH... he hangs out with both Brian and Danny, both ESFjs. He also gives great credit to Kendra. He is initially strongly disliked by both Danny and Bren. He thinks he's identical with D Trump. Ok. He is a complete spaz, but I think he just might be right about that one. Except for physically threatening Danny, he kind of acts too wimpy to be ESTp. I need to change my assumption into ENTp-Ti. Also, he's not too subtle about stating and pushing for his own ideas. So I'm changing both these fellas in the list.

[Smilingeyes]

Next person to go... Tara Dowdell..

In her episode we learn that she has affinity for Craig, though possibly for racial reasons since it's not necessarily mutual affinity.
We learn that her past in politics pervades her thinking. She makes strong choices and pushes for them consistently, trying to talk other into agreeing with her. IMO she shows the gamma attitude to social relations quite nicely. She isn't trying to champion a cause for the merits of the cause, she's trying to lobby support for the sake of gaining support. Power for power's sake. From the Net I find that later on she created what appears to be basically a lobbying firm whose expertise is know-how on how to get government to give you free money...

How do you define success?
Success is recognizing and approaching each new day as an opportunity to be a better person than you were the day before. It is setting goals and working arduously to achieve them. Success is also confronting adversity and persevering.
What have you learned from watching previous seasons of The Apprentice?
I learned from watching previous seasons that anything can and will happen, so be prepared...

Here's her NBC-interview:
Why should you be the next Apprentice?
I firmly believe that I should be the next Apprentice because I have demonstrated amazing resilience, fortitude and determination in the face of extreme adversity. I believe the true test of a person is evidenced by his/her response to adversity. I have had a number of personal setbacks, and I overcame them with grace and character. Furthermore, I am focused and savvy and I always find a way to succeed. I love life and people and I bring this passion and vigor to everything with which I am involved.

...

Passion, vigor, resilience, fortitude, determination, grace, character.
Love of life and people. Gamma-SF fits nicely. My feeling remains that she's ESFp>ISFj, though this is something of which I'm not 100%.

....

Here's something from her website:
I write poetry by inspiration and I wrote this poem in 1993 in a hospital waiting room. I was 17 years old and my grandmother was in the hospital being treated for a stroke, which she suffered in my house earlier that morning. As I waited for the doctor to come out an update my family on my grandmother's condition, I began to think about her strength and was inspired to write this poem. My grandmother passed away in 1998, but this poem serves as my tribute to her and a source of inspiration to me.

"Firm I Stand" [link, not working].

.....

I continue to think ESFp.

.....

In the series she doesn't get particularly much screentime, but OTOH Mark Burnett shows have a reputation for editing out black women unless they do something crazy. Furthermore, Tara is very racially concious and is aware of this.

Article - Departments

The article states that she was conciously trying to act in a way to avoid being staged as a crazy sistah.

Internet rumor says that she used to date Matt Dillon. I don't really know Dillon's personality so this helps me none.

[Smilingeyes]

Ok, so I watched a few more episodes and I'm sort of getting to the stage at which I'm "sealing down" my opinion on things.

In the "high education team":

Kendra Todd - Real Estate Broker INTj-Ne
When able to elect some team members to keep, she keeps Bren ENTj and Alex ENTp and chucks ERin ESFp and Stephanie ESTp-Se instead. Michael ENTp loved her and she likes Danny ESFj. She has arguments consistently with Craig ISTp and doesn't really agree with Tana ENTj and she chooses Danny ESFj over Todd ESTj.
Our forum member Eunice empathizes with her and thinks she's INFj, but Kendra consistently likes alphas and vice versa, also she can't work with anyone who shows Te. She can't be INFj. Meanwhile my earlier idea of ISFp doesn't work because she actually fights more with Craig ISTp than with Tara ENTj. Also, she does have some really great ideas and she does calculate the situation and her strategy over the game pretty well. Also, the fact that D Trump doesn't really like her that much is easier to understand as an INTj-Ne - ENTp-Ti relation than as an ENTp -ISFp relation.


Alex Thomason - Attorney ENTp-Ne
Friends with Kendra. Shows a lot of Fi actually. Can superficially be friends with anyone. Doesn't care about minor facts. Goes after great ideas. Scoffs at most of his team. Affinity with Trump until loses consistently. Kind of has a reputation as a liar. Likes Craig ISTp, but not enough that could be a true dual.

Bren Olswanger - Prosecutor ENTj-Ni
Talks easily with Danny, while doesn't become an actual friend. Takes charge in his own team. No strong relations. Superficially manages well with anyone. Kind of weak socionic evidence but gives strong ENTj-Ni vibe.

Erin Elmore - Attorney ESFp-Se
Charges anyone quickly. Attacks anyone with anything. One of the most aggressive contestants ever. Uses sexuality. Forms a sort of team later on with Chris ESFp-Se and Stephanie ESTp-Se. They all become Angie ENFj-Ni's "adopted children". But they sort of run over her.

Michael Tarshi - Real Estate Developer ENTp-Ti

Danny Kastner - Marketing Technology Firm Owner ESFj-Si

Todd Everett - Sales Manager ESTj-Te

Verna Felton - Business Manager ISFj-Fi

Stephanie Myers - Supply Chain Consultant ESTp-Se
For a major part of the competition one of "the most negative people" in the group. Talks easily with Michael ENTp-Ti but they don't trust each other, instead they try to maneuver each other. Can't work with Danny. Attacks people quite consistently in an aggressive way. Notices when she's about to be sidelined and turns suddenly very positive, very good strategical positioning of self. Complains when things "aren't logical"

And in the "Street smarts team"
or "working their way up with little education":
Tana Goertz - Sales Executive ENTj-Te

Craig Williams - Shoeshine Business Owner ISTp-Te
Shows more Si than Ni. Doesn't really like Tara ISFj-Se, Audrey ENFj-Fe, Kendra INTj-Ne. Has best relationship with Tana-ENTj-Te. Ok relations with Alex ENTp-Ne.


Chris Shelton - Real Estate Investor ESFp-Se
A part of the Erin-Stephanie-Chris triumvirate at one point. John ENTj-Te's best friend. At one point called "the one with the best relations" in a group consisting mostly of competing EJ types.


Angie McKnight - Gym Franchise Owner ENFj-Ni Works great a number of people in team. Adopts first Audrey ENFj-Fe and when turned on, gives her up. Later on adopts Chris, Erin and Stephanie and one by one gives up on them too. Strong person, but tendency to give up and throw her hands in the air. Good positional strategy.


John Gafford - Technology Firm Owner ENTj-Te
Takes charge as a leader. Immediately hated by Stephanie ESTp-Se, while liked immensely by Chris ESFp-Se. Seems to have good relations with Tara ISFj-Se. Gives no credit to Brian ESFj-Si or Audrey ENFj-Fe. Has some rapport with Erin ESFp, even if Erin hates chauvinists and John can be thought of as one.


Audrey Evans - Real Estate Agent ENFj-Fe
ENF was clear. I had to move from ENFp to ENFj because she doesn't just complain about her team, she attacks them ferociously. Also she has a lot of affinity with her team and can't work with Craig ISTp any more than she could with Kristen ISTj-Se. I put down her bad relations with Kristen as something arising from both of them being a bit on the incompetent and weird side of things, also differing subtypes.

Kristen Kirchner - Real Estate Financier ISTj-Se

Brian McDowell - Real Estate Broker ESFj-Si

Tara Dowdell - Senior Governor Management ISFj-Se
Rewatched things. Am finally moved over to IJ>EP temperament. Good relations with Kristen ISTj-SE and apparenty John ENTj-Te also slightly easier to explain. Also, misunderstanding with Craig ISTp-Te easier to explain. (Affinity maybe for racial reasons as she's extremely racially concious. )

Anyway, I'm starting to finally be kind of happy about this seasons' s typings.

The University educated team seems reasonably random. There's a gamma and EJ temperament focus in the "street smarts" team. I don't think that's a typing mistake, I thinks it's a selection bias and can even be explained by the choice of finding people with "street smarts". Could be telling. Thanks.

[Smilingeyes]

I guess next in turn would be season 2.
It's a good season, mostly, the final being a particular exception.

Anyway, the intuitive typings...
Kelly Perdew - Military Intelligence Officer - ESTp
Jennifer Massey - Attorney - ISFj
Sandy Ferreira - Bridal Salon Owner - ESFp
Kevin Allen - Law Student - ESTj-Te
Ivana Ma - Venture Capitalist - ENTp
Andy Litinsky - Recent Harvard Graduate - ENFj-Ni
Wes Moss - Private Wealth Manager - ISTj-Ti
Maria Boren - Marketing Executive - ISTj-Se
Chris Russo - Stockbroker - ESTj
Raj Bhakta - Real Estate Developer - ENTj-Ni
Elizabeth Jarosz - Consulting Firm Owner - ENFp-Fi
Stacy Rotner - Attorney - ESFp-Se
John Willenborg - Marketing Director - ESFp
Pamela Day - Investment Firm Partner - ESTj-Te
Jennifer Crisafulli - Real Estate Agent - INTj-Ti
Stacie Jones Upchurch - Restaurateur - ENFj
Bradford Cohen - Attorney - ENTj-Te
Rob Flanagan - Corporate Branding Salesman - ESTj-Si

[Smilingeyes]

So, some of the relationships that emerge by the end of the competition

Kelly ESTp-Ti hates Jennifer Massey ISFj.

Kelly ESTp-Ti works well and easily with Sandy ESFp-Se

Kelly ESTp-Ti has no trouble working with Kevin Allen ESTj-Te?! Hm. Possibly wrong subtype. Maybe ESTj-Si? Or... when they work together they've got this anti-Jennifer league going on. Maybe Kevin just likes Kelly just a bit more than Jennifer. I think it has something to do with Kevin's alliance of sorts with Ivana ENTp-Ne. So Kevin is probably exercising lots of Si during the competition. And that would put him at odds with Jennifer.

Kelly ESTp-Ti works well with Ivana ENTp-Ne.

Kelly ESTp-Ti causes dislike in Andy ENFj-Ni and Raj ENTj-Ni, though also respect.

Kelly causes fear and respect in Wes ISTj-Ti.

Kelly ESTp-Ti is quick ally to Elizabeth ENFp-Fi? Could maybe be ENFj-Fe.

Kelly ESTp-Ti rubs John ESFp wrong? But still, Kelly sort of likes John too.

Jennifer Massey ISFj can work very well with Sandy ESFp but there's also some basic dislike.

Jennifer Massey ISFj is hated by Ivana ENTp-Ne.

Jennifer Massey ISFj-Se has an alliance of sorts with Andy ENFj-Ni

Jennifer M ISFj likes Pamela ESTj-Te, and vice versa, but there's quite a lot of snarking.

John and Raj like each other very well.

Pamela ESTj-Te and Chris ESTj understand each other very well.

Jennifer ISFj and Raj ENTj-Ni instantly appreciate each other highly. Jennifer likes Raj. Raj respects and fears Jennifer. But Raj is the only person Jennifer defends consistently.

Wes... My original ISTj-typing was based on a couple of occasions in which he talks really big. But actually he seems to be INTj-Ti. He's usually quite meek actually. Also a bit spacey and bad at driving (noticing space). Also he's quite an intellectual and good analyst. Appears to be quite a good INTj actually. He works well with Kelly ESTp-Ti, but is kind of afraid of him. He's got a tumultous relationship with Sandy ESFp-Se and Stacy R ESFp-Se.

Wes has moments in which he appreciates Andy, but usually he doesn't. At one point there's basically a group of Kelly-ESTp-Ti, Sandy-ESFp-Se, Maria-ISTj-Se, Wes-INTj-Ti led by Kelly who are all working against Andy who is their nominal team leader for the task. Andy still manages to win the task for the team. One of the most impressive victories in Apprentice history in my book.

When Wes INTj-Ti has an opportunity to eject other men from his team he tosses Kevin-ESTj-Si, Chris ESTj-Te and Raj ENTj-Ni (hmm, I see a theme). He keeps Kelly ESTp-Ti and Andy ENFj-Ni.

In particular Wes INTj-Ti detests Chris ESTj-Te.

Wes INTj-Ti is the only person to support Elizabeth when she's about to be ejected. This is one reason I'm actually starting to feel that Elizabeth is ISFp-Fe.

Maria ISTj-Se appears to have no friends at all. Though she hangs out with Kelly ESTp-Ti who trusts her, Wes INTj-Ti who also trusts her and Sandy ESFp-Se who doesn't trust her.

When Jennifer M ISFj is given the opportunity to eject women from her team it's quite interesting. She ejects Sandy ESFp-Se, Stacy R, ESFp-Se and Maria ISTj-Se! Meanwhile she keeps Ivana ENTp-Ne and Elizabeth ISFp-Fe, who are both people who she clashes with later repeatedly. It seems to me that Jen decided to eject people she thought were tough competitors and wanted to keep people who she thought were "weak".

Chris. At one point the team is Raj ENTj-Ni who is allied with Jennifer ISFj-Se, Chris ESTj-Te and another alliance of Kevin ESTj-Si, Ivana ENTp-Ne. Chris chooses to voice his concern over team dynamics, him being in the middle and being torn in both directions (Si and Ni). Trump, ENTp-Ti and Carolyn ISFp-Fe react to this in the most idiotic possible way. They start accusing Chris about this and saying that it's a stupid thing to make an accurate remark. What morons! Of course, Chris is completely right and they're completely wrong. Anyway, later on Chris allies with Jennifer himself, which is kind of reasonable given that he would be a third wheel in the Ivana-Kevin couple whereas after Raj goes Jennifer is without allies. Anyway, Chris goes soon after because Trump hates him.

Raj ENTj-Ni works well with Bradford.

Elizabeth... She's the team leader in a team of Chris ESTj-Te, Kevin ESTj-Si, Raj ENTj-Ni, Ivana ENTp-Ne, Jennifer ISFj-Se. Elizabeth is pretty much overrun by the EJs. She finds Raj particularly distasteful. She shows at this task that she wants to be liked and she wants consensus. In the final task she claims to be a dictator and tries to unsuccessfully command Raj though. Anyway, in this particular task she goes to Kevin for support. Kevin tries to support her but after she reacts to Kevin's help in a way Kevin finds idiotic Kevin "tosses her under the bus". Anyway, I've been thinking earlier that Elizabeth was ENFp-Fi, but if she were, she shouldn't have such trouble with a bunch of EJ-Te men. She should have no trouble at all. Also Jennifer ISFj should be impressed by her, her supervisor. Not so. Jennifer thinks she sucks. Also, if she was ENFp-Fi, I would expect her to look for support from Ivana. Instead she looks for support from Kevin ESTj-Si and Wes INTj-Ti! So based on that I have to guess she's ISFp-Fe. Also, Trump is quite impressed by her in the final task.

More to come.

[Trevor]

Alex Thomason - Attorney ENTp-Ne
Friends with Kendra. Shows a lot of Fi actually. Can superficially be friends with anyone. Doesn't care about minor facts. Goes after great ideas. Scoffs at most of his team. Affinity with Trump until loses consistently. Kind of has a reputation as a liar. Likes Craig ISTp, but not enough that could be a true dual

Is having a reputation as a liar somehow related to being an ENTp-Ne? Why I'm asking this is: the two biggest liars I know are both ENTp-Ne. And they also happen to have a reputation as a liar. Even more, they've been confronted more than once regarding the issue, have also been mocked mercilessly by various people for their creative-interpretation-of-facts-ability(actually it's more like making up things completely); all of that with no significant effect whatsoever. I haven't really thought of it as possibly being ENTp-Ne related until I saw this, now bolded, sentence amongst other sentences which function seems to be to point towards certain type/s. So, to reiterate, is having a reputation as a liar somehow related to being an ENTp-Ne or thereabouts?

[Smilingeyes]

Is having a reputation as a liar somehow related to being an ENTp-Ne? Why I'm asking this is: the two biggest liars I know are both ENTp-Ne. And they also happen to have a reputation as a liar. Even more, they've been confronted more than once regarding the issue, have also been mocked mercilessly by various people for their creative-interpretation-of-facts-ability(actually it's more like making up things completely); all of that with no significant effect whatsoever. I haven't really thought of it as possibly being ENTp-Ne related until I saw this, now bolded, sentence amongst other sentences which function seems to be to point towards certain type/s. So, to reiterate, is having a reputation as a liar somehow related to being an ENTp-Ne or thereabouts?

Reputation as a liar. . . . Let's just say that ENTps tend to have characteristics that could easily give them such a reputation, but a reputation is of course also a factor of the people surrounding them.

Mostly it has to do with being extrovert, alpha and carefree while also assuming NT intellectual authority. Net result: someone who believes they're better than anyone, will tend to just say things as they enter their mind while taking no responsibility for effects. Furthermore, what with the positive assertiveness and the NT know-it-allness people tend to forget ENTps are actually taciturn types. So when they say something to you, they're not informing you, they're testing you. So if you act based on something they say, it's supposed to be funny, laughs all around, except the joke's on you.
Even moreso, a good many of ENTps seem to actually be offended by the concepts of objective truth or the idea of an ethical need to actually stick to such and they'll happily test if they can get away with acting counter to these.
But hey it's awww rite, because they're just such grrrrreat people.

[mu4]

Reputation as a liar. . . . Let's just say that ENTps tend to have characteristics that could easily give them such a reputation, but a reputation is of course also a factor of the people surrounding them.

Mostly it has to do with being extrovert, alpha and carefree while also assuming NT intellectual authority. Net result: someone who believes they're better than anyone, will tend to just say things as they enter their mind while taking no responsibility for effects. Furthermore, what with the positive assertiveness and the NT know-it-allness people tend to forget ENTps are actually taciturn types. So when they say something to you, they're not informing you, they're testing you. So if you act based on something they say, it's supposed to be funny, laughs all around, except the joke's on you.
Even moreso, a good many of ENTps seem to actually be offended by the concepts of objective truth or the idea of an ethical need to actually stick to such and they'll happily test if they can get away with acting counter to these.
But hey it's awww rite, because they're just such grrrrreat people.

ILE's don't care if people think if they're liars or not either. So they really make no effort to correct those assumptions. The people know me don't care either.

The biggest liars are the one who are very good maintaining a facade and maintaining a image of honesty.

If I go up to a girl and tell her I'm going to lie to her in her ear, either she's going to laugh and get really curious, or she will be offended and try to get away from me.

Everybody lies and for good reasons sometimes, it's more important to figure out what people are lying about.

"If you can fake sincerity, you can fake pretty much anything."

[Smilingeyes]

Hkkmr's actually on my ignore list but I happened to be unlogged and read his message. I just wanted to say it's well written and very good in its content. If one's basic point is to attack the very idea of honesty... There's of course a point why ENTps do this, and they do help the socion by exposing hypocrisy and lies as well as other hidden things, but as for trusting them themselves in any shape or form... LOL. Or put another way, I'm not unappreciative of ENTps efforts, but I'd rather they do their thing a reasonable distance from me.

[Blaze]

Reputation as a liar. . . . Let's just say that ENTps tend to have characteristics that could easily give them such a reputation, but a reputation is of course also a factor of the people surrounding them.

Mostly it has to do with being extrovert, alpha and carefree while also assuming NT intellectual authority. Net result: someone who believes they're better than anyone, will tend to just say things as they enter their mind while taking no responsibility for effects. Furthermore, what with the positive assertiveness and the NT know-it-allness people tend to forget ENTps are actually taciturn types. So when they say something to you, they're not informing you, they're testing you. So if you act based on something they say, it's supposed to be funny, laughs all around, except the joke's on you.
Even moreso, a good many of ENTps seem to actually be offended by the concepts of objective truth or the idea of an ethical need to actually stick to such and they'll happily test if they can get away with acting counter to these.
But hey it's awww rite, because they're just such grrrrreat people.

hkkmr said it best but i will add that i have to disagree that entp's think they are better than anyone. you have no idea about this, you are saying this based on your values not ours. we usually have our facts right.

[Smilingeyes]

hkkmr said it best but i will add that i have to disagree that entp's think they are better than anyone. you have no idea about this, you are saying this based on your values not ours. we usually have our facts right.

I agree, hkkmr said it best. As for who thinks what of what, I don't really fundamentally know what you think what with telepathy not being something I've mastered. I do know how you act though.

ENTps usually DON'T have their facts right and if they do, they certainly aren't sharing any. You don't even frigging care about the concept for crissakes. But that of course doesn't mean I'm (or anyone else is) always correct either. And sometimes it's good that you call others out. So that's fine.

-----

I will tell a couple of stories though.

1. My contact person in my bank is Ep-Ne. Not absolutely sure about the ENTpness though.
When we meet I tend to start things my explaining how I view the current market situation. She talks so as to cast doubt on my assumptions and I explain more. She tried to sell me on the idea that US stocks were going to rise two years ago. "They just had to!" I ignored her of course. She didn't have her facts straight. Nevertheless she HAS also given me good advice. Her doubts make me also rethink my positions and its generally quite fruitful. I really appreciate her and last time I met her I brought her some gifts. She said she appreciated it.

2. I was in high school with a particular ENTp-Ne who basically everyone knew couldn't be trusted. I used to love talking to him though. He was so energetic. He sucked up to people very well and made you feel like a million bucks. He used to make meetings with people in cafes and never show up. Then you'd call him and he'd tell you about something great that was going on somewhere else in the city. I used to talk to him, take the good feeling and then disregard everything. He never showed up to a meeting where he was supposed to be. Ever. Still a great guy.

3. One of the people analyzing my thesis was ENTp. After having reviewed five years worth of work, (he did spend a lot of time reading it) he called me up with a correction suggestion: "Hey, this thesis is about the wrong subject. It would be better if you redid it about ......". I don't know if it's even necessary to point out what a crock of **** that statement is. When you've got 5 years worth of published material that's been accepted in international magazines you don't just f***ing ignore something like that. Both his idea and his "facts" were crap. He was and is a joke.

4. I was a first year resident in a rural clinic where a certain ENTp-Ne senior doctor was working. He had been pulling paper jobs, not doing operations. There were a couple of situations in which he had to deal with a patient with an issue needing mildly complicated practical solutions/treatments. I liked the guy and was luckily able to bail him out. I did my best to help him in all other ways as well. He loved me for it and started telling people what a knowledgeable guy I was. Ok, I loved him all the more for that but come on... I was a first year resident! I didn't know jack. I just happened to be the resident Si-person. Still love the guy to death. Not a bad bone in his body and a wonderful doctor in his own way and area of specialty. I miss him occasionally. I tried to fix some misunderstandings he was having with the local chief of specialty (ISFp) because I knew they'd be good together. Had a bit of success but not as much as I would have hoped.

5. The hospital I currently work in has been dominated past few years by a genius INTp and his ESFp wife. Recently I was treated to a table discussion in which an ENTp resident was trying to convince other residents, an INFj-Ne, one other and me that the INTp guy is insane. A joke? I guess. Funny? Not. Had his facts straight? Doubt it. Anyway, whenever the situation arises, the ENTp is also sucking up to said INTp like it's nobody's business. Still, that ENTp is usually ok too. But he's got a nasty streak. For the record he DID also correct my decisions of treatment once so he's a smart guy. (My choice was correct but his was just simply better.)

Point being. Sometimes ENTps do good. Sometimes they do bad. But for better or worse I'm not going to trust one.

[Blaze]

well smilingeyes i must contratulate you on your thorough answer. i admire the depth of your intensity about this subject but have to wonder from whence it comes.

i can't help but note that you end up liking ILE's and saying they are good guys. also can't help noticing that majority of ILE's you mention are male. how do you account for gender differences in type expression?

I have my facts straight 9.5x out of 10 and am open to correction. i maintain that your comments reflect a Te bias, and probably an Fi bias as well, although you do not state your type or quadra. every type is tricky and manipulative in their own way...i could think of many examples of TeNi "spinning" of so called dynamic emergent "facts."

[Smilingeyes]

Agreed.
More in pm. This is derailing the thread. (Ok it was a dead thread but I might come back to it once UK apprentice 6 comes out).

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

Hmm... a few I recognise posted here.

Alan Sugar - ESI (if not, then LSI)
Katy Hopkins - SEE
Piers Morgan - EIE