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Thread: Addicts and types

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    Olga's Avatar
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    Default Addicts and types

    I would like to express some ideas about addiction and types and to find out what your think about it. I am not working with those who addicted but I have an addicted to smoking husband plus my head is full of different ideas all the time.

    I would like to ask a few questions:

    What role personality characteristics/types play in addiction?
    Are some types are more prone to addiction?
    What types may find easier to quit unhealthy style?
    What functions may play a key role in managing addiction and for whom?

    If we are talking about addiction we need to start with rationality/irrationality opposition. I guess we all can be addicted and to exhibit very irrational behaviour at times due to the fact that we all are rational and irrational at the same time and have got mind (rational part) and (soul - magic/irrational part). I assume if we do not balance these two we get in a some form of trouble either in a real world or in your head only or both.

    I will hypothesize that:

    1. We shall find more irrational types than rational types between the addicts.

    2. There will be more irrational ethical types than irrational logical types between the irrational addicts.

    3. There will be more rational logical types than rational ethical types between rational addicts.

    These three hypothesis are based on the workings of rationality/irrationality and balancing. I assume that the irrational ethical types have got an overdose of irrationality compared to all other types. Because ethics is about feelings and about people. People are part of the nature and nature is irrational and magic. Feelings is magic because we cannot touch them and they definitely are not the product of any material part of our body except soul. We can see feelings in others and feel within ourselves before we attach a word label to what we actually feel or see.
    I assume that irrational ethical types are at the extreme of the continuum which is called: first pleasure than thinking. I believe that irrationality/perception/ feeling is expressed more in nature, art/colour, music, dance, sport, leisure, sex …well probably in everything but definitely more in some of activities than the others. That is why irrational types who find the healthy/rational expression of their irrational potential and fulfil themselves may appear as perfectly rational and on the opposite, the rational types who engaged in unhealthy(irrational) lifestyle or just got carried away with their very rational activities (like work) can be perceived as irrationals.


    Rational logical types are at the other end - they probably experience a lack of irrationality more than any other types. Too much thinking or brain working can be harmful and in need of irrational compensation- the open door for unhealthy irrational pleasures and activities.

    I may be right or may be wrong. If you noticed I did not say anything about extraversion and introversion and extraverted and introverted functions…may be they can answer some of the key questions?

    I will hypothesize:

    1. Those types who have (extraverted?) sensorics in their first/ base or second/creative functions will be easier to quit than those who have (extraverted?) intuition as their base or creative functions.

    Sensorical types are assumed to be more powerful then intuitive types. Sensorics is associated with air (which get into anything and everything) and intuition with fire.

    Why sensorical types are assumed to be more powerful? I guess they less depend on the external circumstances: they don’t like it - they got all what it takes to change it. Intuitive types are more affected by the situation they are in as they have not got the power to change it there and then. Less power to break the vicious circle.

    I didn’t make my mind clear about the difference between internal and external intuition and sensorics regarding this topic. I have generalised by talking about sensorial and intuitive types but it may well be difference because the functions are differently expressed in behaviour. It could be interesting to check out all this ideas… may be to make some sort of questionnaire …may be somebody has got an interest and can help to put it on the internet? Anyway, feel free to say what you think…
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

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    Default Sex

    Shall we talk about sex?
    It sounds right that extraverted sensorics might like sex more than any other types but....we need to be careful as extraverted sensorics of rational types may be different from of irrational types. It may be stronger in irrationals. Can we suggest that sensorical types more up to it (sex) than intuitive types? I am not sure. There are some many factors which may affect sex (e.g. gender) than it is difficult to generalise unless people start start to talk very openly.

    I can only talk about myself. For me rationality is a bit in a way. My hubby, INTJ - rational and logical tipe is much more up to it. Is it just because he is a man or because he has an overdoese of rationality and in need of compensation?

    The difference between sex, sport, dance and unhealthy addictions (e.g.drugs) is in consequences of how you feel emotionally and physically. Sex is healthy, it is a part of nature and it
    creates Life and maintains it in a special way. Drugs are unhealthy and work against Life. There are healthy addictions like sports/sex/dance and unhealthy addictions. Balance is important, as people can probably turn everything what is healthy into something unhealthy.

    Discipline is interesting topic of discussion. I can assume that it is associated with conscience , and rationality... Different types use probably different functions to get where they want to. The most disciplined type suppose to be ISTJ?
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    I disagree that there's such a thing as a healthy addiction. Becoming addicted to anything can hinder you in performing other activities that may be important.
    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this. (A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.) - Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Default no talk about sex

    Addiction means disbalance or overdpendence... but it depends on the context or how seriously you take it. Healthy addiction sounds to me like a lovebite, it is still a bite but of a different kind. It reminds me the program on TV(Question time), which discussed the cartoons about Islam and freedom of speach. The question was: is it Ok or not Ok to express you feelings/opinions about the belief systems in a joyky way. Well, if you take staff like that too serious - you see it as a racial offence/hatered.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by niveK
    I disagree that there's such a thing as a healthy addiction. Becoming addicted to anything can hinder you in performing other activities that may be important.
    I definately agree (why do I agree with everything you say, niveK?). "Healthy" and "addiction" should never be used that lose together

    I sometimes joke about being addicted to chocolate, but an addiction rules your life. Even if the thing you're addicted to is typically considered healthy, being addicted is never healthy.

    (IMNSHO)

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    There's an MBTI chart somewhere out there showing ratios for each dominant function. I remember Fe being moderate. I think Te was least.

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    Drug addiction has nothing to do with type.

    Nothing.

    Although WHICH drugs an individual would use may be related to type.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Drug addiction has nothing to do with type.

    Nothing.

    Although WHICH drugs an individual would use may be related to type.
    Thank you Mystic. I was going to say that but I didn't feel like putting in the effort.

  10. #10

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    I was addicted to heroin for a while, and then there were a few other small issues. I’m better now, kind of.

    Drugs are a quick fix. A band aid for an open wound when you really need a stitch. But God, it makes things so much worse in the long run. I’m not exactly sure why people look down on others that are addicted to drugs. That’s the problem in the first place, when people fail you, you run off and look for a new outlet. We need to remember that addiction is not intentional, who intentionally fucks up their life?

    “I can do this today; I’ve not done anything for a month.”

    “I can do this today; I’ve not done it in a week.”

    “I need this today I’ve not had it in a day.”

    Don’t judge too harshly people are people not earth bound saints. Not everything can be patched up with a good cry.

    Any kind of addiction is just a cover up for another issue.

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    Olga's Avatar
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    Default Judging?/Cartoon crisis

    I didn't mean judging and I don't know who did. I want to understand this issue better, where does it come from and how it relates to types or dimensions/functions. While we all people and have similar problems and go thourgh the same sh.. at times we do it differently or make different choices and I think the type is a role to play... what role - I want to understand this!


    Cartoon crisis

    People use the odd word association to make their language more colourful and expressive as well as appropriate to particular context. For example, I can say to a friend about my feelings: “I think this is a passion” but when I want to express my feelings to a person I am in love with I would say “I am addicted to you” or…” I am addicted to chocolates, swearing and etc..“. While we can be passionate about people, music, art, sport we do not use this word in relation to alcohol, smoking or drugs. There is another word from this group - fanatic, which sounds much scarier to me than the other two and has got connotation to the addiction of mind.

    If some people do not like the expression “healthy addiction” , how can Muslims, who are passionate about their religion, feel about the cartoon portraying their Messenger as a Taliban warrior? This makes it easier to understand why they protest. I am not sure how many extremists around the world and how many Muslims support extremists. The question is, do we need to adjust ourselves to their feelings and shut up or we can continue to exercise our freedom of speech and then to have a holly war as a consequence? How are you going to talk to a child who has a real gun in his hand or to an idiot with the bomb in his back pack?

    I also would like to look into rationality/irrationality opposition as regards to Islam and Chrsitianity and to know your thoughts about it.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Default Re: Addicts and types

    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    Rational logical types are at the other end - they probably experience a lack of irrationality more than any other types. Too much thinking or brain working can be harmful and in need of irrational compensation- the open door for unhealthy irrational pleasures and activities.
    I can see this. Perhaps this is why enfps and some intjs are drawn to one another.. mutual hedonism. I think however that you can drawn correlations along other lines also. For example, you could view it as a split between ExxPs and IxxJs or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by niveK
    I disagree that there's such a thing as a healthy addiction. Becoming addicted to anything can hinder you in performing other activities that may be important.
    It can hinder you from performing activities that are harmful also and can be used as a tool in such a manner to avoid negative consequences. It is like arguing that the centralization of power is dangerous because it allows for the possibility of horrors to be unleashed. While that is true, opportunity for a particular course does not imply it's materialization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    If some people do not like the expression “healthy addiction”
    This may seem like a small point, and you probably know it already, but it's not the *expression* "healthy addiction" people have a problem with. It's the idea that someone would think that addiction, which by definition is very unhealthy, could exist in healthy forms. Some forms of addiction may be more harmful than others, but no form of addiction can ever be healthy. That's what people are objecting against, not the expression "healthy addiction".

    Likening this to Muslims being upset/offended/outraged over the cartoons is a vast misrepresentation (though it may partly work (not fully, but at least better) if you don't think of it as being upset over form and focus on the content instead, as I was trying to point out above), as is saying that the outrage is caused by Muslims being "passionate" about their religion. As offensive as they must have seemed to a lot of people. the cartoons were almost certainly just triggers, and it may be better to focus more on underlying problems.
    Possibly ethical-intuitive introvert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tepa
    Likening this to Muslims being upset/offended/outraged over the cartoons is a vast misrepresentation (though it may partly work (not fully, but at least better) if you don't think of it as being upset over form and focus on the content instead, as I was trying to point out above), as is saying that the outrage is caused by Muslims being "passionate" about their religion. As offensive as they must have seemed to a lot of people. the cartoons were almost certainly just triggers, and it may be better to focus more on underlying problems.
    they were not just 'triggers' of something else. they are really a straightforward thing. how would you like it if someone made a cartoon intentionally to insult your mother, when you dearly love her? it's one thing if you insult or make fun of your own family/people you love, quite different when someone else who doesn't belong does it.

    muslims, even modern muslims, do not view religion the same way as modern christians (non-practising?) view theirs. muslim culture has had numerous reforms all through the centuries, people have been disillusioned, blasphemous poetry written, etc. etc. things were reformed, over and over again, from various centres of the civilisation. it's just that all these things happened in languages other than english so you wouldn't know it. heck, most of the muslim world itself isn't learned enough in these historical literatures to know it. but the reforms always grew out of the base religion itself, not a rejection of it, like the enlightenment was for europe. therefore, religion is still something serious, and some things are still sacred.

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    Sorry, that was poorly phrased. I didn't mean "just" a trigger, I meant that there are also a lot of other issues that have been going on for years, but haven't been properly expressed and that all of these work together. I'm sorry.
    Possibly ethical-intuitive introvert.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tepa
    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    If some people do not like the expression “healthy addiction”
    This may seem like a small point, and you probably know it already, but it's not the *expression* "healthy addiction" people have a problem with. It's the idea that someone would think that addiction, which by definition is very unhealthy, could exist in healthy forms. Some forms of addiction may be more harmful than others, but no form of addiction can ever be healthy. That's what people are objecting against, not the expression "healthy addiction".
    That's exactly the point. Well said.

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    Default Re: Addicts and types

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    It can hinder you from performing activities that are harmful also and can be used as a tool in such a manner to avoid negative consequences. It is like arguing that the centralization of power is dangerous because it allows for the possibility of horrors to be unleashed. While that is true, opportunity for a particular course does not imply it's materialization.
    I'm not sure what you're getting at. An addiction by it's nature is unhealthy because you compulsively engage in that even when you shouldn't. Perhaps you speak of habits, as in repeated behaviors that become somewhat automatic. Habits could potentially lead to you performing an action wrong if you aren't paying enough attention. Addictions will cause you to choose the addicted activity unless you break them.
    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this. (A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.) - Friedrich Nietzsche

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    The point of an addiction is that it controls your life. You live purely for the next "hit", whatever that may entail. If you don't get your next hit, things turn ugly. It's a dangerous situation not only in that, but the rest of your life/sanity has this nasty habit of slipping out of control when you're that pre-occupied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tepa
    Sorry, that was poorly phrased. I didn't mean "just" a trigger, I meant that there are also a lot of other issues that have been going on for years, but haven't been properly expressed and that all of these work together. I'm sorry.
    oh, ok. misunderstood you.

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    @nivek/ishy i think the difference is merely one of degree not substance. if you shifted your view of the degree of influence being exerted any substance would cease to/become an issue. i know that sounds overly simplistic, it is and i do not mean to come across as if i think addiction is a light matter. please keep that in mind when responding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    @nivek/ishy i think the difference is merely one of degree not substance. if you shifted your view of the degree of influence being exerted any substance would cease to/become an issue. i know that sounds overly simplistic, it is and i do not mean to come across as if i think addiction is a light matter. please keep that in mind when responding.
    I'm not sure how you're defining the term addiction. Therein may lie the confusion and disagreement.
    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this. (A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.) - Friedrich Nietzsche

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    @nivek/ishy i think the difference is merely one of degree not substance. if you shifted your view of the degree of influence being exerted any substance would cease to/become an issue. i know that sounds overly simplistic, it is and i do not mean to come across as if i think addiction is a light matter. please keep that in mind when responding.
    I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, could you elaborate a little?

  23. #23

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    Default Definition

    I agree with niveK, it would be good to go back to definition. We can look at addiction from the point of what it is (substance or activity or experience) and the degree of involvment/ addiction.
    Is it something you feel in your body like agitation or wanting something, anxiety or drive which makes your adrenalin go up and you experience a fight or flight responce? And then when you get what you want you feel relief/high?
    Self harm works in the same way and so may be sports as well. Sportsmens probably get their highs from training each day for a few hours though nobody considers them as addicts. Why is that? So many things around us can be addictive but on the other hand they make us stay in a life. It looks to me as it is not an obstinance is important as a matter of self control (degree) over addiction/addictive things in life. If your close one is taking drugs than you would think I would not mind him to be rather addictive to sports or to women, for example. I can also imagine if some of the people need a real kick in life than it should be strong enough replacement.

    As regards to odd words accociations it would we better if we would not take it seriously and didn't look that deeply for meanings. Our life is odd at times so we use odd expressions and swearings are still popular. The comedy uses a lot of staff which does not fit together and that is why we like it, things don't need to be straight all the time.
    Socionics: XNFx
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  24. #24
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    I think that would only be because of the stigma attached to drugs, not because they are actually worse. I always consider the state of addiction, I think the things one might be addicted to are mostly irrelevant.

    (edited for syntax)

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