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Thread: Gammas - not getting along and retyping

  1. #1
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default Gammas - not getting along and retyping

    So we have the following people typing themselves as Gamma (not including ESFp's on this list) :

    Expat
    Jarno
    Joy
    Diana
    Allie
    Crazedrat
    FDG
    Niffweed
    Phaedrus
    Discojoe
    Warlord

    Sorry if I missed anyone out.

    It seems like all you guys do when you communicate with each other is disagree with each other, insult each other, throw each other into different quadras and what have you. What's with that?

    Do you all need ESFp's to get along?
    Last edited by Cyclops; 12-18-2008 at 01:08 PM.

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    calenwen's Avatar
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    Maybe gammas just take the forum more seriously - in order to discuss socionics, in which case disagreements are bound to occur and then hashed over until conclusion/hatred is reached.

    Besides, I don't not get along with any of those people.
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
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    Gamma can't listen to anyone other than themselves. It's too many chiefs. We need indians like you.
    INTp

  4. #4
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by calenwen View Post
    Maybe gammas just take the forum more seriously - in order to discuss socionics, in which case disagreements are bound to occur and then hashed over until conclusion/hatred is reached.
    Possibly. I see other people having discussions and it doesn't boil down to hatred that you mention. Maybe that is a gamma way of communicating?
    Besides, I don't not get along with any of those people.
    Cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Possibly. I see other people having discussions and it doesn't boil down to hatred that you mention. Maybe that is a gamma way of communicating?
    Cool
    Eh, I was kind of joking about the hatred thing. Maybe gammas just take things more seriously in general though? haha
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
    John Muir

  6. #6
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    Gamma can't listen to anyone other than themselves. It's too many chiefs. We need indians like you.
    This could be a good point. It's like each of you is own unit and find it really difficult to reach common ground with each other when you guys talk. I think Delta do their own thing but they're more likely to find things they agree on when they talk.

    I've also noticed on other forums that gamma sub forum is least active one like it is here too.

    I don't know if this is just an internet thing as I don't know large groups of gamma's irl. The ones I know irl tend to be quite different from each other and they can have their own ego's which stops them getting on. So I don't know for sure if it is just a forum thing. Maybe forum thing represents their irl interactions as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It seems like all you guys do when you communicate with each other is disagree with each other
    i don't understand how disagreeing with a person is "not getting along." basically the way i feel about a person otherwise isn't affected by me not agreeing with them on some other issue. i mean, unless the issue is like, "child molestation is wrong."
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i don't understand how disagreeing with a person is "not getting along." basically the way i feel about a person otherwise isn't affected by me not agreeing with them on some other issue. i mean, unless the issue is like, "child molestation is wrong."
    I think a lot of people assume that if two people are arguing something (with the slightest bit of intensity), that they must be "fighting" or not "getting on."

    And nice "gamma" list, lol.

  9. #9
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i don't understand how disagreeing with a person is "not getting along." basically the way i feel about a person otherwise isn't affected by me not agreeing with them on some other issue. i mean, unless the issue is like, "child molestation is wrong."
    I don't mean that arguing equals not getting along. It just seems from reading a lot of the posts that screaming obscenities at each other is accepted, not even noticed. Me finding that unusual can be met with I actually find it amusing how most of you seem to communicate.

    I think the real issue is is that Gamma's often don't see the point in communicating with each other unless there is some sort of material gain involved. I see it all the time in ISFj's, they suck up to people they think is important and ostracize those who they see as beneath them or in some way inferior. It makes me question the motives of Fi in ISFj.

    Gamma's might be the least sociable of the quadras, only co-operating when they can gain something themself with no qualm at it being at the expense of the others involved.

    BTW I am not saying this is correct, i'm more interested in how Gamma's see themselves and this. So i'm probably not going to argue wither i'm right, i'm more inclined to observe any responses to it all.

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    I've noticed a recurring pattern with Si valuers, where they tend to assume that [two] Se valuers will be fighting, simply due to the style of argument they prefer. I suppose the discrete 'impacts' of Se seem out of place from the standpoint of a continuous field of interactions [Si], because said thing, when placed within a field, would be vexing. One has to consider that a field, when distended over localized [physical] objects, would be suffocating to the person (Se valuer).

  11. #11
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I've noticed a recurring pattern with Si valuers, where they tend to assume that [two] Se valuers will be fighting, simply due to the style of argument they prefer. I suppose the discrete 'impacts' of Se seem out of place from the standpoint of a continuous field of interactions [Si], because said thing, when placed within a field, would be vexing. One has to consider that a field, when distended over localized [physical] objects, would be suffocating to the person (Se valuer).
    This isn't anything to do with me or Si types saying wither what they do or how they do things is right or wrong. That's irrelevant. It's me looking to speak to Gamma's to ask them for their feedback.

    It's nothing to do with how I perceive two Se valuers arguing. You must be pretty naive to think that an Si type such as an ISTp isn't capable of delivering hash words or serious blows in a conflict.

    This thread is about Gammas and how they view their social interactions, not 'Se' types. If you can comment on the interactions for gamma for the gammas then fine, if not will you stop going on about what you think Se types should be like everywhere.

    Basically, before you start de-railing the thread, keep it on track and don't look to start debating how you think I perceive things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I think a lot of people assume that if two people are arguing something (with the slightest bit of intensity), that they must be "fighting" or not "getting on."

    And nice "gamma" list, lol.
    i agree with you. well, i mean, if people are full out fighting then yeah it's easy to assume they're not getting on well. but because i disagree with you in a debate or disagree with you about some thing doesn't mean i don't like you.
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  13. #13
    Creepy-Diana

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  14. #14
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't suck up. Period. In fact, if you ever have the slightest inclination to call me a suck-up please have the decency to substitute the word with whore or something instead. It's far less offensive.
    lol. This is quite a good example of an aspect of ISFj behaviour, perhaps Gamma behaviour? I referred to ISFj's I know. I didn't say you were a suck up. Why is what i've observed offensive, and why do you assume i'm talking about you and take it personally?

    And therefore, what is the need for you to comment on my decency for, if i'm observing people you don't even know?

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    Creepy-Diana

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  16. #16
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    You were using their behavior to make generalizations about gamma and ISFjs, and I was expressing my extreme dislike of that behavior, and was distancing myself from it as far as I could. I did not assume you were talking about me. I was making it clear that this is not a universal ISFj trait. And particularly not a trait of mine. Saying that I would be offended if you were to assume something like that about me, is not saying that I'm offended you said so about someone else. I don't care what you say about people I don't know, but I do care that it doesn't become some sort of blanket statement that includes me.
    Ah I see. Thank you for explaining to me.

    What do you think about what I wrote about Gamma's when it comes to co-operating.. That they only co-operate with another when there is something for them to gain materially, and they don't care if that other person looses out, basically it is the others tough cookies. I suppose a life long partner might be different, because they might see them and their s/o as being one?

    What do you make of what Crazedrat said about Gamma fighting a lot on the forum? Crazedrat said it is because there are too many chiefs and Gamma needs more Indians like me. Do you think that is accurate or do you see it as normal communication like Strrrng mentioned?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    This isn't anything to do with me or Si types saying wither what they do or how they do things is right or wrong. That's irrelevant. It's me looking to speak to Gamma's to ask them for their feedback.
    Who said anything about whether it was right or wrong? I gave a contrast to illustrate the potential discrepancies in interpretation of said thing.

    It's nothing to do with how I perceive two Se valuers arguing. You must be pretty naive to think that an Si type such as an ISTp isn't capable of delivering hash words or serious blows in a conflict.
    Again, where did I mention harsh words? Learn how to interpret. I said 'impacts' as an abstract representation of the nature of Se. It wasn't meant to be taken literally as insults, punching, etc. Anyone can be rude, but the aforementioned interaction styles very much are general trends, and most Si valuers seem befuddled when observing what looks like a fight between two Se valuers. Again, this pattern bore a connection to the topic at hand.

    This thread is about Gammas and how they view their social interactions, not 'Se' types. If you can comment on the interactions for gamma for the gammas then fine, if not will you stop going on about what you think Se types should be like everywhere.
    Gammas are Se valuers, and consistent patterns exist for Se/Ni quadras, in regards to communication. It has nothing to do with what I think Se "should be"; I brought it up because it's relevant to their style of interaction.

    Basically, before you start de-railing the thread, keep it on track and don't look to start debating how you think I perceive things.
    How about you stop putting words in my mouth? I didn't derail this thread at all, as evidenced by the fact that you have referenced my post to diana as a comparison in an example. Take your finger out of your ass and get the fuck off my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    I didn't say you were a suck up. Why is what i've observed offensive, and why do you assume i'm talking about you and take it personally?
    Not unlike how you took a general trend I mentioned personally. Well done.

  18. #18
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Who said anything about whether it was right or wrong? I gave a contrast to illustrate the potential discrepancies in interpretation of said thing.



    Again, where did I mention harsh words? Learn how to interpret. I said 'impacts' as an abstract representation of the nature of Se. It wasn't meant to be taken literally as insults, punching, etc. Anyone can be rude, but the aforementioned interaction styles very much are general trends, and most Si valuers seem befuddled when observing what looks like a fight between two Se valuers. Again, this pattern bore a connection to the topic at hand.



    Gammas are Se valuers, and consistent patterns exist for Se/Ni quadras, in regards to communication. It has nothing to do with what I think Se "should be"; I brought it up because it's relevant to their style of interaction.



    How about you stop putting words in my mouth? I didn't derail this thread at all, as evidenced by the fact that you have referenced my post to diana as a comparison in an example. Take your finger out of your ass and get the fuck off my case.



    Not unlike how you took a general trend I mentioned personally. Well done.
    Basically, you have a tendency to jump into threads and start going on about all sorts of bullshit about how Beta and Se types are hardasses and that Si types are pansies. I've seen it before and I can't be arsed with you polluting my thread with your bullshit. Now if your intention was to genuinely help then fine, I apologise, i've just seen you spew shit like this so much that I assume the worst before I assume anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Basically, you have a tendency to jump into threads and start going on about all sorts of bullshit about how Beta and Se types are hardasses and that Si types are pansies. I've seen it before and I can't be arsed with you polluting my thread with your bullshit. Now if your intention was to genuinely help then fine, I apologise, i've just seen you spew shit like this so much that I assume the worst before I assume anything else.
    Maybe you should judge posts based on their content, and not expectations or motivations you prescribe to the person.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Maybe you should judge posts based on their content, and not expectations or motivations you prescribe to the person.
    Tell that to the boy who cried wolf. Sometimes you say interesting things but often your a broken record giving the same shit. Anyway if you make further posts here i'll read them, but basically i'm not looking for a theoretical dialect, i'm wanting to hear real examples and experiences and how what I say relates to people of the types you know or have known. This is for practical purposes not a subjective theoretical masturbation technique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    What do you think about what I wrote about Gamma's when it comes to co-operating.. That they only co-operate with another when there is something for them to gain materially, and they don't care if that other person looses out, basically it is the others tough cookies. I suppose a life long partner might be different, because they might see them and their s/o as being one?
    I thought it was mainly disputes among self-typed Gammas about if some of the other self-typed Gammas actually are Gammas. I mean I would go there for an explanation before stretching it out to include other things.

    Anyway I think it makes sense because most self-typed Gammas are Se-valuing anyway, so it ends up being an Fe/Ti vs. Fi/Te dispute and wanting to "deport" perceived "Fe/Ti Gammas" to Beta. I suppose that could say something about Se + Fi valuing though.

    Saying things like "you're wrong. you're an idiot" seems to go along with both Beta and Gamma, though I think in the case of Gamma it's often more based on an "objective" perception that the person really is an idiot; where as with Beta it's more of an insult in reaction to ones behavior (one can take off the dunce cap later).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I thought it was mainly disputes among self-typed Gammas about if some of the other self-typed Gammas actually are Gammas. I mean I would go there for an explanation before stretching it out to include other things.

    Anyway I think it makes sense because most self-typed Gammas are Se-valuing anyway, so it ends up being an Fe/Ti vs. Fi/Te dispute and wanting to "deport" perceived "Fe/Ti Gammas" to Beta. I suppose that could say something about Se + Fi valuing though.

    Saying things like "you're wrong. you're an idiot" seems to go along with both Beta and Gamma, though I think in the case of Gamma it's often more based on an "objective" perception that the person really is an idiot; where as with Beta it's more of an insult in reaction to ones behavior (one can take off the dunce cap later).
    I think this is a good explanation. Not that I'm gamma or anything, but it makes sense.

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    Creepy-Diana

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  25. #25
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I thought it was mainly disputes among self-typed Gammas about if some of the other self-typed Gammas actually are Gammas. I mean I would go there for an explanation before stretching it out to include other things.

    Anyway I think it makes sense because most self-typed Gammas are Se-valuing anyway, so it ends up being an Fe/Ti vs. Fi/Te dispute and wanting to "deport" perceived "Fe/Ti Gammas" to Beta. I suppose that could say something about Se + Fi valuing though.
    Well, gamma quadra seems to be the quadra with the most number of disputed types. Not working out the figures but it seems like minority of gamma's are recognised by others in their quadra as being gamma. I think that sort of treatment- I don't like you so your not gamma your not the type you claim to be is a form of social ostracizing. It's a Se way of forcing people out. I see this sort of thing IRL that gammas will try to push you out of a circle and try to cut off your friends and contacts, wither in the workplace or out of it, if they don't like you, don't agree with you etc. Seems like it's done perhaps as some sort of Se punishment in the form of affecting interpersonal relationships of Fi.
    Saying things like "you're wrong. you're an idiot" seems to go along with both Beta and Gamma, though I think in the case of Gamma it's often more based on an "objective" perception that the person really is an idiot; where as with Beta it's more of an insult in reaction to ones behavior (one can take off the dunce cap later).
    Yeah that's true when they say it they mean it it's not done to try to annoy the person.. I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i don't understand how disagreeing with a person is "not getting along." basically the way i feel about a person otherwise isn't affected by me not agreeing with them on some other issue. i mean, unless the issue is like, "child molestation is wrong."
    Yeah, I agree (except some extreme cases). It's not like in real life I argue, anyway. Internet forums often do not contain the social side of the equation which is the one where most cooperation takes place (ex. here there's never the opportunity to do something toghether, for example).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post

    I think the real issue is is that Gamma's often don't see the point in communicating with each other unless there is some sort of material gain involved. I see it all the time in ISFj's, they suck up to people they think is important and ostracize those who they see as beneath them or in some way inferior. It makes me question the motives of Fi in ISFj.
    Just another example of how the majority of people on this forum know shit about ISFjs.
    And, just to clarify, I am one of the furthest things from a suck up that you will find. In my experience, although I wouldn't use the term "sucking up," this type of behavior is most often exhibited by beta STs.
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  28. #28
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I found this article today. It says it is written faceaceously.

    It's a gamma SF uncovered.

    I wonder what you think of it's accuracy?

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/gammasf.html

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    How lovely, this thread has now been polluted with ganin.

  30. #30
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    How lovely, this thread has now been polluted with ganin.
    I'm not saying wither it's right or wrong. I came across this by co-incidence this afternoon. It would be cool if you could give your opinion on the validity of the article not just your opinion on who is (probably) the author.

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    I can't say it's not a good picture of the most deprecable half kind of gamma types (not just SFs). It's hard, however, to understand what's the contribution of the type and what's the contribution of being deprecable. Generally, I think it's always better to steer away from either too positive or too negative descriptions of a given type.

    I had a mentally unstable and not very smart ISFj girlfriend whose declared aim in life was to marry a rich guy and be his housewife. I also have a friend which isn't particularly, well, which tends to lack subtle understanding of how the world works, and he operates in the way described by that article. I both cases, I have tried to show them how their actions will eventually likely lead to a sense of lack of fulfillment, but let's remember that SF types are double-involved, thus in some cases if an observation is exogenous from their standard world they may have problems integrating the knowledge in everyday life.

    I can't say this seems to hold true for the many others that I know, really. They're not going to be as open-minded as an INTj, they're not going to be good at evaluating other people's potentials (this is perhaps their worst flaw), but some of these accusations are off-base (ex. lack of politeness, coscentiousness only aimed at reaching their goals).
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    there are no gammas on any forum... every single one has mistyped themselves and is really a different type (that was sarcasm fyi)

    on a more serious note, i think that the response of some people to the implication that they might be suck up's might illuminate some of the reason gamma "doesn't get along". i'm not isfj, but i would be increadibly offended if someone called me a suck up. actually a lot of the arguments that i get into are motivated by the fact that i refuse to believe that i have to kiss ass to get anywhere in life. if i disagree with you i should have the right to tell you that and i dont give a fuck who you are or what your social status is. if this attitude exists more in gamma's then other types then this could be the reason for the idea that we dont get along. i havent really thought about this a lot, thats just my take on the situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    This isn't anything to do with me or Si types saying wither what they do or how they do things is right or wrong. That's irrelevant. It's me looking to speak to Gamma's to ask them for their feedback.
    I think strrrng made a pretty good point.

    You're asking for "feedback" on what you see as a 'problem/situation' while other Gammas/Se valuers in this thread clearly just see it as a organic way of communicating.

    Perhaps the reason you see this 'in-fighting' situation as 'not getting on' is precisely because of the Si lenses you and I naturally see the the world through (i.e. your Si valuing sees the existence of a problem where non-Si valuers don't)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's nothing to do with how I perceive two Se valuers arguing.
    I think some of the responses in this thread (and perhaps the fact that you created it) kind of proves it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    You must be pretty naive to think that an Si type such as an ISTp isn't capable of delivering hash words or serious blows in a conflict.
    I don't think strrrng was saying that at all. His comment had nothing to do with whether not ISTps are capable of "delivering harsh words or serious blows" but the fact that you view Gamma forum member's style of interaction as a problem or sign of them not getting along while Gammas and Se valuers clearly see it differently, not the combative or unfriendly way you do.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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  34. #34
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by timeofurlife42 View Post
    there are no gammas on any forum... every single one has mistyped themselves and is really a different type (that was sarcasm fyi)

    on a more serious note, i think that the response of some people to the implication that they might be suck up's might illuminate some of the reason gamma "doesn't get along". i'm not isfj, but i would be increadibly offended if someone called me a suck up. actually a lot of the arguments that i get into are motivated by the fact that i refuse to believe that i have to kiss ass to get anywhere in life. if i disagree with you i should have the right to tell you that and i dont give a fuck who you are or what your social status is. if this attitude exists more in gamma's then other types then this could be the reason for the idea that we dont get along. i havent really thought about this a lot, thats just my take on the situation.
    You could be right. Part of what I think I have observed could be related to many ISFj's being 6. Such a thing of assigning oneself to an authority or a group and opposing threats which they see to the group (wither real or imagined) can be a manifestation of being a 6. Part of the reason for me posting was to correct anything I am wrong in.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    I think strrrng made a pretty good point.

    You're asking for "feedback" on what you see as a 'problem/situation' while other Gammas/Se valuers in this thread clearly just see it as a organic way of communicating.

    Perhaps the reason you see this 'in-fighting' situation as 'not getting on' is precisely because of the Si lenses you and I naturally see the the world through (i.e. your Si valuing sees the existence of a problem where non-Si valuers don't)?



    I think some of the responses in this thread (and perhaps the fact that you created it) kind of proves it does.



    I don't think strrrng was saying that at all. His comment had nothing to do with whether not ISTps are capable of "delivering harsh words or serious blows" but the fact that you view Gamma forum member's style of interaction as a problem or sign of them not getting along while Gammas and Se valuers clearly see it differently, not the combative or unfriendly way you do.
    My concern with Strrrng's comments was that he often seems to portray Se valuers a certain way. Some of that may be correct. I think however there will be a difference in how Se is manifested in Gamma and in Beta, just like Si is different in Delta and Alpha, simply because it is blocked with a different element.

    I don't think Se is all about fighting each other to communicate. Perhaps it is. I think maturity can play a part in this sort of interaction strrrng mentions. I think there are people of types who are older and handle things differently, still valueing Se. As an example there is the presenter Jeremy Clarkson who seems to be ESTp. He isn't aggressive in his language and on reading his biography he said he has never been in a fight and would run away from a physical confrontation. His Se seems to come out by always having to be top gun in any competition with his co-hosts, and driving extremely fast cars on his television show. This might be a little redundant because he isn't Gamma, but it is Se and it came to mind as an example to show possible different manifestations of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post

    I don't think strrrng was saying that at all. His comment had nothing to do with whether not ISTps are capable of "delivering harsh words or serious blows" but the fact that you view Gamma forum member's style of interaction as a problem or sign of them not getting along while Gammas and Se valuers clearly see it differently, not the combative or unfriendly way you do.
    Actually, as mentioned before, Gamma "infighting" is mainly about people supposedly mistyping themselves and those who are apparently the "true" gammas expelling the "false" gammas from the quadra. It has little to do with Se, though that may contribute to the method in which the argument or disagreement is conducted but that is not what Cyclops is focused on; he is more interested in why the infighting occurs I think. Plus, for those who are accepted as "true" gammas, there are rarely any noteworthy arguments. I think Se-valuers see the interaction just as combative or unfriendly as any other type does.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




  36. #36
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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    "Contrary to Alpha NTs, who have an almost instinctive sense of universal, moral and local law from an empathetic standpoint" LOL, I wonder what type the author thinks he is?
    This amused me also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I don't think Se is all about fighting each other to communicate. Perhaps it is.
    Is it or isn't it? Make up your mind.

    I think maturity can play a part in this sort of interaction strrrng mentions. I think there are people of types who are older and handle things differently, still valueing Se.
    Right, and let me reiterate that I was never drawing a direct correlation between rudeness, fighting, etc. and Se. I was simply pointing out that it is not uncommon for Si valuers to mistake Se valuers' argument styles for 'fighting.'

    As an example there is the presenter Jeremy Clarkson who seems to be ESTp. He isn't aggressive in his language and on reading his biography he said he has never been in a fight and would run away from a physical confrontation. His Se seems to come out by always having to be top gun in any competition with his co-hosts, and driving extremely fast cars on his television show. This might be a little redundant because he isn't Gamma, but it is Se and it came to mind as an example to show possible different manifestations of it.
    I googled him and I'm pretty sure he's Ne-ENTp. And wait, didn't you say above that...

    I don't think Se is all about fighting each other to communicate.
    ...so what is the point in bringing up fighting in reference to him and his "Se"? And if fighting isn't correlated with Se, why are you connecting it with being "top-gun" and "driving extremely fast cars"? That's just as redundant, and just as erroneous. None of those things are in any way manifestations of Se.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng
    Is it or isn't it? Make up your mind.
    It's basically keeping an open mind as part of the discussion. I don't feel the need to come in with an opinion and have to be right at this very moment. I'm prepared to listen.

    ---

    In regards to Se, i'm refering to the points De Ante made. There are also different ways of fighting. Yours appears to be done through fear of being wrong. That if you shout enough then others must accept what you say.

    In regards to Clarkson, i'm sure of his type. I've read some of his books, I sometimes read his newspaper column and I tend to watch his TV show.

    Your other points: noted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's basically keeping an open mind as part of the discussion. I don't feel the need to come in with an opinion and have to be right at this very moment. I'm prepared to think listen.
    There's a difference between keeping an open mind and contradicting yourself in consecutive sentences. I'll give you the answer: Se is not about fighting.

    In regards to Se, i'm refering to the points De Ante made. There are also different ways of fighting. Yours appears to be done through fear of being wrong. That if you shout enough then others must accept what you say.
    Digressing into my "tactics"? You're demonstrating yours right here.

    In regards to Clarkson, i'm sure of his type. I've read some of his books, I sometimes read his newspaper column and I tend to watch his TV show.
    Fine. I won't debate it.

    Your other points: noted.
    Ok.

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