More very obvious 1:1 comparisons between Socionics and Alchemy

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 02:30 AM

The first picture here shows that the aspects of degrees in astrology [conjunction, sextile, swaure, trine, etc.] coincide with the quality of intertype relationships, as I have ordered them.

This next chart shows how the 36 strategems from China [these are based upon the Tao] relate to socionics types through the signs of the zodiac. The way that you would look at this would be to look at the specific sign of one of the stratagems, and then look at the functions within the quadra
that the sign is in. For example, "Fool the Emperor to Cross the Sea" is associated with the sign Leo, so you would look where the sign is at and see that the Beta quadra has the functions

, with the main association being

, and being associated with another function. The stratagem is therefore reduced down to being associated with

and

... "Fool the Emperor to Cross the Sea" is about making attractive reinterpretations of things that people find unappealing to make them more appealing, thus encouraging someone to take action. "Kill with a borrowed sword" would be

and "Loot a house on fire" would be

...

The following below is how I have worked out exact comparisons between alchemy, astrology, and socionics. It seems that there are already associations with the various tattwas to the specific signs of the zodiac, so what you see is the best comparison I can gather usingsocionics functions as a comparison. See more about Tattwas here: http://www.donaldtyson.com/tattwas.html

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Starfall

Uh-oh.

btw, how could you not be a Ti type? I f I looked even further into this I'm sure my head would explode.

Lol ... funny you should say that. MetaZcrawler was saying that these were silly parables that can only be associated with with an ENFj.

ENFj and ENTp are both probably types for me I think.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Starfall

ILE, maybe, but EIE is hard for me to see; though I'm no expert on EIE's.

I remember Hugo showing me some chart he made and I experienced a similar kind of "my heads going to explode" reaction. He explained to me that I got that reaction because I have weak Ti. I need things to be clean, clear, crisp, and direct to the point if I'm going to put any effort into understanding something.

The only way to understand the charts is to read the resources I give out and see how they all relate to one another, and to know all the bits of relevant socionics, alchemy, and astrology required to understand how there exist comparisons.

Of course, unless one is already well studied that takes time and effort and apparently many of the people who are opposed to this system as it is built would rather make denials followed by weak refutations than to look at the resources involved to see if there is indeed a comparison.

**strrrng** · 12-16-2008, 02:58 AM

Absolutely irrefutable. I'm befuddled as to why others don't grasp this obvious correlation.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by strrrng

Absolutely irrefutable. I'm befuddled as to why others don't grasp this obvious correlation.

It might be refutable ... just it seems that people who try to refute it have no clue what it is that they are actually refuting.

**strrrng** · 12-16-2008, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by rmcnew

It might be refutable ... just it seems that people who try to refute it have no clue what it is that they are actually refuting.

A lot of the people who promote it seem to have no clue what it is they're promoting, either.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by strrrng

A lot of the people who promote it seem to have no clue what it is they're promoting, either.

True, it is in the development stages and not everything is total clockwork.

**strrrng** · 12-16-2008, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by rmcnew

True, it is in the development stages and not everything is total clockwork.

Except the planetary rotations governing intertype relations.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by strrrng

Except the planetary rotations governing intertype relations.

Where ... ?

**strrrng** · 12-16-2008, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by rmcnew

Where ... ?

the essential facets of the cosmos duh

**Wynch** · 12-16-2008, 04:09 AM

lol@nick

To be honest, this all looks like an insane mess to me. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.

**munenori2** · 12-16-2008, 04:24 AM

Well, I understand that my astrological sign means that I'm an SEI that beats the grass to startle the snake so I can safely lure the tiger down the mountain by throwing a brick in the hopes of finding some jade. What I don't get is how I turn stuff into gold?

Do I have to try to use my high polarity to invade the

/

square? I bet I get something special if I build a hotel on that space.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by munenori2

Well, I understand that my astrological sign means that I'm an SEI that beats the grass to startle the snake so I can safely lure the tiger down the mountain by throwing a brick in the hopes of finding some jade. What I don't get is how I turn stuff into gold?

Do I have to try to use my high polarity to invade the

/

square? I bet I get something special if I build a hotel on that space.

Beat the grass to startle the snake is EGO

, it represents ISFps nature to want to create solidity in their life and the enjoyment of getting it; they like to shape their surroundings to their desires. Lure the Tiger down the Mountain is

and in representing ISFp it involves encouraging ISFp out of stubbornness, because they often like to sit around and not do anything except to kill braincells for long periods of time and hate to be forced to do things; they have to be baited to do things. Throwing a brick to attract Jade is

and is representative of the of the sporatic logic that ISFps have; often they will throw little "tidbits" of logical things out to hint at something and let other people fill in the gaps.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by mn0good

lol@nick

To be honest, this all looks like an insane mess to me. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.

The point I am making is that socionics obviously shows synchronicity with much of the same things derived from more ancient "mental transmutation" philosophies that shaped religions such as taoism, wicca, etc. and it did not just "get invented out of thin air" by augusta [who was strongly influenced by mystic religions] and that polish guy named Kapinski, who obviously borrowed much of the "information metabolism" theory from somewhere else [obviously metaphysical and alchemical sources].

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 03:20 AM

I am hoping that this would help clarify how to read this information.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ne=Baits,Motive,Energy,Potential
Se=Space,Blocks,Plugs,Territory,Shape
Ni=Division,Separation,Location,Time
Si=Bonding,Comfort,Relaxation
Ti=Small absorbed into Large, weak/strong foundations
Fi=Small rejected from Large, charm, ingratiation
Te=Filtering,Obstacles,Advancement
Fe=Attraction,Infestation,Enjoyment

--------------------------------------------------------------------

You then take this information above and compare it to the descriptions of the different strategems below:

http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...strategies.pdf
http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...rpretation.pdf

**strrrng** · 12-17-2008, 03:30 AM

ZHAO!!! I'M COMING FOR YOU BUDDY!

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by strrrng

ZHAO!!! I'M COMING FOR YOU BUDDY!

An INFp would not rescue ZHAO by going to get ZHAO, rather an INFp would besiege WEY to "equalize" the fact that ZHAO was taken from the INFp, and then barter ZHAO back. That is how WEY is besieged to rescue ZHAO.

**strrrng** · 12-17-2008, 03:38 AM

It's extremely hilarious.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Allie

Woah, this is extremely confusing.

You have to look things up according to their descriptions and symbols to perceive how it is put together.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by strrrng

It's extremely hilarious.

If you get it, it means something practical ... if you don't get it, you'll just not gain anything from it.

**ZTCrawcrustle** · 12-17-2008, 04:38 AM

Hey, thanks for the nick! What was it? MetaZCrawler? I like it!

@Starfall - the reason mcnew cannot be ENTp is because this is unreadable. So far, it makes sense in his head. Unfortunately, this is the deep end of Beta NF: the cult fanatic/wiccan-wannabe. Ti types don't understand this.

Originally Posted by rmcnew

I'll start with this.

I was really bored one summer a while back and there was a book of astrology in front of me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Air is the element of wisdom (I remember because I'm a Libra - cardinal air), so why do you attribute it to Se/Si? Does Se/Si even make sense when we look at what is written right above it? (I'm assuming the chart means that Air is the closest element related to "Divinity, Unseen, Astral Realm...") The above heading we can at least put under socionics Ni (Ne is a bit of a stretch), but the bottom heading is more of a stretch. I guess we could group it under Se/Si, to follow with your pattern. To continue with the bottom-up sequence of physically real to mentally real, shouldn't water then be Te/Ti? Knowing a little about astrology, I'm pretty sure this does not match the element of water, but Fe sure matches the element of fire. Anyway, just why are we grouping things in extraverted/intraverted ways?

I just got that from another look. You made the socionics corner into a crescent and wrote in the socionics elements. I'm wondering if you considered checking what each astrological element actually stood for.

Over to the next page. There are only two sentences on the whole page that somehow relate to socionics. They are conveniently highlighted as B. The second of these sentences is close to how we understand IM elements ("no sentience, only energies we can draw upon"). However, it is contradicted by the very next sentence, which is not highlighted. (This unhighlighted sentence also destroys whatever weak link had previously existed to the first sentence under B.)

What I'm getting from this is that mcnew wants us to believe that our IM elements are really sentient deities who smile down on us and bestow gifts. The unhighlighted paragraph reveals what was explicit to the readers of the book, but so far implicit to us: they are talking about the "natural" elements of earth, fire, wind, and water (get heart and we can crown mcnew Captain Planet). In a notch of irony, the way they talk about "pools of water, burning fires... even stones can find ways to communicating their feelings" is the wording the wiki uses to describe Fe-leading (last I checked, which was a while ago. Sorry, it is actually from Fe-creative.)

So, by this chart and passages, as far as I understand them, um... let's say SEEs are buddies with both Air and Water (that was unexpected, but I'm actually born on the day which Air separates from Water, so perhaps I should be SEE or SEI), but Fire and Earth think SEEs are pricks.

I'm going to go at these one a day. I don't have the time for anything else.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Allie

Out of curiosity, I just wanted to read what type I was and get out of here. The excessive charts/links/red/black etc. are scaring me away, though.

http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...strategies.pdf

25. Replace The Beams With Rotten Timbers
Disrupt the enemy's formations, interfere with their methods of operations, change the rules in which they are used to following, go contrary to their standard training. In this way, you remove the supporting pillar, the common link that makes a group of men an
effective fighting force.

27. Feign Madness But Keep Your Balance
Hide behind the mask of a fool, a drunk, or a madman to create confusion about your intentions and motivations. Lure your opponent into underestimating your ability until, overconfident, he drops his guard. Then, you may attack.

29. Tie Silk Blossoms to the Dead Tree
Tying silk blossoms on a dead tree gives the illusion that the tree is healthy. Through the use of artifice and disguise, make something of no value appear valuable; of no threat appear dangerous; of no use, useful.

ISFj
[EGO-(Fi-Se)]Replace the Beams with Rotten Timbers
[Super-Id(Te-Ni)]Feign Madness, Yet keep balance
[Super-Id(Ni-Te)]Tie Silk Blossums to the Dead tree

"Replace the Beam with Rotten Timbers" in relation to

represents an ISFjs ability to perceive the "weaker" formations of people groups and how certain people fit in and among the group. They have a good eye for gauging weakness and know exactly who or what should be "casted out" out of the group to strengthen the general group. Alternatively, an ISFj could also encourage kindness and humaneness in the treatment of those stronger in a hierarchy to those weaker in a hierarchy.

"Feign Madness to keep Balance" is the

Suggestive function for ISFj and is used together with

Hidden Agenda "Tie Silk Blossums to the Dead tree." ISFjs may come off as too condemning and moralistic to people groups and turn large groups of people against them. When confronted with a dilemma such as this, an ISFj may feign idiotacy or ignorance, and then offer or fight to make things right again moralistically. This is enhanched by adding artificial value to themselves, which could include dressing up in eye catching ways, overemphasizing the importance of small things connceted to them, or any other way that adds value to themselves in other peoples eyes. An ISFj may very well say to the world in relation to their PoLR

and

RoLE function: "I have been bad, but I paid the price, compensated and everything is all morally just and good for me now."

Also compare that to the ENTj descriptions for the reverse.

ENTj
[Super-Id(Te-Ni)]Borrow a Corpse to Raise a Spirit
[Super-Id(Fi-Se)]]To catch something, first let it go.
[Super-Id(Se-Fi)]To Catch the Bandits, first capture the Leader.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-18-2008, 12:00 AM

**tereg** · 12-18-2008, 12:02 AM

I didn't know tcaud took over rmcnew's account.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-18-2008, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle

I was really bored one summer a while back and there was a book of astrology in front of me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Air is the element of wisdom (I remember because I'm a Libra - cardinal air), so why do you attribute it to Se/Si? Does Se/Si even make sense when we look at what is written right above it? (I'm assuming the chart means that Air is the closest element related to "Divinity, Unseen, Astral Realm...") The above heading we can at least put under socionics Ni (Ne is a bit of a stretch), but the bottom heading is more of a stretch. I guess we could group it under Se/Si, to follow with your pattern. To continue with the bottom-up sequence of physically real to mentally real, shouldn't water then be Te/Ti? Knowing a little about astrology, I'm pretty sure this does not match the element of water, but Fe sure matches the element of fire. Anyway, just why are we grouping things in extraverted/intraverted ways?

Remember that I did more comparisons than just using astrology. I also had used the "Alchemical Processes" [such as digestion, separation, congelation, etc] as a means to discover where, which, how, and why I should apply certain parts of the "36 Chinese strategies" based upon the tao to certain astrological signs, as well as reading various sign, metal,etc. descriptions for alchemy astrology, as well as comparing those to socionics descriptions. From that, I looked for only 1:1 comparisons between all sources I used and was able to deduct where each socionics function was suppose to go in the Zodiac. I then was able to make various proof comparisons between socionics and astrological reasoning to find further evidence that there was a 1:1 correspondence, and so far the model shows a moderate to exact 1:1 correspondence between socionics, alchemy, and astrology to just about anything I throw at it between socionics, alchemy, and astrology now.

My most recent demonstration was showing that the relationship descriptions located at demitri lytov's old site:

http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.3.rels/index.html

matched the Astrological aspects of the signs:

http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-aspects.htm

almost exactly in the same varying degrees of good relations to bad relations. This is what the following chart was intended to show.

http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...tionships3.JPG

http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-aspects.htm

I just got that from another look. You made the socionics corner into a crescent and wrote in the socionics elements. I'm wondering if you considered checking what each astrological element actually stood for.

Yes, and I also compared their alchemical attributes as well. That is evidenced here in this chart.

http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...ibutions_4.JPG

I actually discovered what each type was by comparing 3 of corresponding degrees [360 degrees in a circle where 3 degrees equals one sign] to the the "36 strategems from china" to a specific alchemical process, then I would equate both astrological sign [reading descriptions] and also socionic descriptions to one another. Where I discovered solely 1:1 comparisons, I keep that information and then worked a system around it.

The result was that I found a system to mediates near exact between astrology, alchemy, and socionics.

Over to the next page. There are only two sentences on the whole page that somehow relate to socionics. They are conveniently highlighted as B. The second of these sentences is close to how we understand IM elements ("no sentience, only energies we can draw upon"). However, it is contradicted by the very next sentence, which is not highlighted. (This unhighlighted sentence also destroys whatever weak link had previously existed to the first sentence under B.)

Apparently you are constructing an argument for or against accepting anything that I have said or will have said, let us look at the way ZTCrawcrustle intends to do this right now.

What I'm getting from this is that mcnew wants us to believe that our IM elements are really sentient deities who smile down on us and bestow gifts.The highlighted paragraph reveals what was explicit to the readers of the book, but so far implicit to us: they are talking about the "natural" elements of earth, fire, wind, and water (get heart and we can crown mcnew Captain Planet). In a notch of irony, the way they talk about "pools of water, burning fires... even stones can find ways to communicating their feelings" is the wording the wiki uses to describe Fe-leading (last I checked, which was a while ago. Sorry, it is actually from Fe-creative.)

I am going to isolate a few sentences here:

What I'm getting from this is that mcnew wants us to believe that our IM elements are really sentient deities who smile down on us and bestow gifts.

I think this is a misunderstanding on your part and that you should go read the corresponding pages listed in the Kybalion for clarification of any specific points.

I should also point out that you are using a logical fallacy [looks like strawman] to make a claim [which I am not exactly claiming] that I am adding supernatural powers to the functions that can not be proven, and you are going to use that as an attempt to discredit everything that I have said. More information on the construction of a strawman argument is found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

The highlighted paragraph reveals what was explicit to the readers of the book, but so far implicit to us: they are talking about the "natural" elements of earth, fire, wind, and water (get heart and we can crown mcnew Captain Planet). In a notch of irony, the way they talk about "pools of water, burning fires... even stones can find ways to communicating their feelings" is the wording the wiki uses to describe Fe-leading (last I checked, which was a while ago. Sorry, it is actually from Fe-creative.)

More strawman looking argumentation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

So, by this chart and passages, as far as I understand them, um... let's say SEEs are buddies with both Air and Water (that was unexpected, but I'm actually born on the day which Air separates from Water, so perhaps I should be SEE or SEI), but Fire and Earth think SEEs are pricks. I'm going to go at these one a day. I don't have the time for anything else.

This has absolutly nothing to do with anything.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-18-2008, 11:39 PM

I changed the charts ... I found this to be more accurate.

**Ritella** · 12-19-2008, 12:29 AM

okay...

**mikemex** · 12-19-2008, 06:03 AM

I've always thought that the mystical schools of the far east are too well structured so that they perhaps came up with about the same thing as socionics. In fact, it all sounds like the understanding about human nature an ILI would develop. Very accurate but also highly symbolic; not conceptual.

The idea that our date of birth determines it is bullshit, though.

**jason_m** · 12-19-2008, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Starfall

I remember Hugo showing me some chart he made and I experienced a similar kind of "my heads going to explode" reaction. He explained to me that I got that reaction because I have weak Ti. I need things to be clean, clear, crisp, and direct to the point if I'm going to put any effort into understanding something.

Believe me, that doesn't mean that you have weak Ti, it means that you're human. I don't understand what's going on here. A lot of Ti types like to come up with complicated stuff that few can understand - including people similar to themselves. Think of Tcaudilllg as an example.

Jason

**Hot Scalding Gayser** · 12-19-2008, 05:02 PM

This is all headache-inducing and... blaaaah.

**Warlord** · 12-19-2008, 05:52 PM

if you write all types of alpha quadra in The Magic Square, you get:
IIEE = Institute of Industrial Electronics Engineering
SNNS = Stuttgart Neural Network Simulator
FTTF = Fada Airport
pjpj = Project Jenny, Project Jan, a laptop rock band from Brooklyn, New York

electronics, computers, neural networks, and the element of air

Coincidence, I think not!

**crazedrat** · 12-19-2008, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by rmcnew

Beat the grass to startle the snake is EGO

, it represents ISFps nature to want to create solidity in their life and the enjoyment of getting it; they like to shape their surroundings to their desires. Lure the Tiger down the Mountain is

and in representing ISFp it involves encouraging ISFp out of stubbornness, because they often like to sit around and not do anything except to kill braincells for long periods of time and hate to be forced to do things; they have to be baited to do things. Throwing a brick to attract Jade is

and is representative of the of the sporatic logic that ISFps have; often they will throw little "tidbits" of logical things out to hint at something and let other people fill in the gaps.

I know. Wish we could kill them all off somehow...

**marooned** · 12-19-2008, 07:39 PM

Earth is like Si and Te.
Water is like Fi and Ni.
Air is like Ti and Ne.
Fire is like Se and Fe.

Alpha = 2 air + 1 earth + 1 fire

Alpha is the airiest quadra, and most likely to have "hot air" ideas that are ideas for their own sake: it is ruled by air. It is also the warmest most welcoming quadra (as it lacks the coldness of water).

NeTi and TiNe = pure air
SiFe and FeSi need air to burn... bring air back to earth

Beta = 2 fire + 1 water + 1 air

Beta is the hottest quadra, burning with passion that is unending. It lacks earthly practicality and flies on ideals and desire. Beta wants no earth to hold it down.

SeTi and TiSe = fire and really hot air (though not "hot air" in the alpha sense ) can control intensity of heat
NiFe and FeNi = fire and water, always trying (not) to extinguish themselves... tends to stay suspended in inertia between fire and water.

Beta is always conspiring to blow itself up and has to maintain a difficult and termperamental fire/water balance to sustain its existence.

Gamma = 2 water + 1 fire + 1 earth

Gamma is the coldest, iciest quadra, with the sharpest precision and efficiency. When Gammas come together, it can become lukewarm and then suddenly burn to intensely hot, even if most of the water is cold. Gamma is adverse to air (or runaway ideas that have no ground).

SeFi and FiSe = water and fire (warms things up so relationships can form, is able to single-handedly manage a balance of opposition... making things colder or warmer by conscious will.)
NiTe and TeNi = water and earth (doesn't know how to heat itself off... is inertia)

Delta = 2 earth + 1 water + 1 air

Delta is the earthiest most practical quadra that is much more solid and grounded than all the others, bringing a certain unflinching stability and sense of security. Delta rejects fire (or runaway passion/power that knows no bounds).

NeFi + FiNe = air and water (or "gentle" mist, equanimity)
SiTe + TeSi = earth that stays in one place ("like a rock") and gets way too grounded when left alone without water to soften it, or air to ruffle it.

-------------

Si (earth) + Ne (air) work via equal cooperation, lifting
Ti (air) + Fe (fire) work via union, intensifying one another
Te (earth) + Fi (water) work via understanding lines or boundaries, touching one another without merging... (separation)
Ni (water) + Se (fire) work via opposition

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-19-2008, 11:09 PM

Wow! I think Loki was the closest so far to getting this!!!

I am impressed!

**Ritella** · 12-19-2008, 11:14 PM

WTF? you changed your name?

**Park** · 12-19-2008, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Loki

Earth is like Si and Te.
Water is like Fi and Ni.
Air is like Ti and Ne.
Fire is like Se and Fe.

Alpha = 2 air + 1 earth + 1 fire

Alpha is the airiest quadra, and most likely to have "hot air" ideas that are ideas for their own sake: it is ruled by air. It is also the warmest most welcoming quadra (as it lacks the coldness of water).

NeTi and TiNe = pure air
SiFe and FeSi need air to burn... bring air back to earth

Beta = 2 fire + 1 water + 1 air

Beta is the hottest quadra, burning with passion that is unending. It lacks earthly practicality and flies on ideals and desire. Beta wants no earth to hold it down.

SeTi and TiSe = fire and really hot air (though not "hot air" in the alpha sense ) can control intensity of heat
NiFe and FeNi = fire and water, always trying (not) to extinguish themselves... tends to stay suspended in inertia between fire and water.

Beta is always conspiring to blow itself up and has to maintain a difficult and termperamental fire/water balance to sustain its existence.

Gamma = 2 water + 1 fire + 1 earth

Gamma is the coldest, iciest quadra, with the sharpest precision and efficiency. When Gammas come together, it can become lukewarm and then suddenly burn to intensely hot, even if most of the water is cold. Gamma is adverse to air (or runaway ideas that have no ground).

SeFi and FiSe = water and fire (warms things up so relationships can form, is able to single-handedly manage a balance of opposition... making things colder or warmer by conscious will.)
NiTe and TeNi = water and earth (doesn't know how to heat itself off... is inertia)

Delta = 2 earth + 1 water + 1 air

Delta is the earthiest most practical quadra that is much more solid and grounded than all the others, bringing a certain unflinching stability and sense of security. Delta rejects fire (or runaway passion/power that knows no bounds).

NeFi + FiNe = air and water (or "gentle" mist, equanimity)
SiTe + TeSi = earth that stays in one place ("like a rock") and gets way too grounded when left alone without water to soften it, or air to ruffle it.

-------------

Si (earth) + Ne (air) work via equal cooperation, lifting
Ti (air) + Fe (fire) work via union, intensifying one another
Te (earth) + Fi (water) work via understanding lines or boundaries, touching one another without merging... (separation)
Ni (water) + Se (fire) work via opposition

Delta sounds boring.

Beta sounds like fun.

**marooned** · 12-19-2008, 11:18 PM

I didn't read it. The diagrams made me feel disoriented. I was bored and made something up, which came to mind when Warlord made something up.

**Park** · 12-19-2008, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Ritella

WTF? you changed your name?

lmao

**marooned** · 12-19-2008, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Winterpark

Delta sounds boring.

Beta sounds like fun.

you should re-type yourself according to it haha

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-19-2008, 11:24 PM

I wish everyone would do what Loki did with actually trying to rework the model ... this whole project I am doing would evolve into something more than just I understand and would involve more people.

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