Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 56

Thread: Timothy McVeigh

  1. #1
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,166
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Timothy McVeigh

    The fella who blew the shit out of Oklahoma.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh





    Last edited by silke; 08-05-2014 at 04:28 AM. Reason: updated links
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  2. #2
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,846
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    He was picked on by bullies at school,[2] and took refuge in a fantasy world in which he retaliated against them; he would later come to regard the U.S. Government as the ultimate bully.
    mhm
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    moon
    Posts
    4,885
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Reading further down the wiki page, I'm pretty sure he's ISTj.

  4. #4
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    delta ST
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    moon
    Posts
    4,885
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    which one?

  6. #6
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Te-ISTp most likely.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  7. #7
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,092
    Mentioned
    165 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Te-ISTp most likely.
    LOL

    the Eminem subtype.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  8. #8
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    LOL

    the Eminem subtype.
    lol...I think eminem is actually Te-ESTj. I used to think ISTp, but he seems more controlled or something.

    but the real lol is @ all the delta ST serial killers
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  9. #9
    implied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,750
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Te-ISTp most likely.
    i'd be more keen on your ENFp typing of me if you didn't type so many serial killers as my dual.
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

  10. #10
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i'd be more keen on your ENFp typing of me if you didn't type so many serial killers as my dual.
    lol...they just need some love
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  11. #11
    implied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,750
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    lol...they just need some love
    not from me!
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

  12. #12
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,092
    Mentioned
    165 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have seen ENTp, ISTp and ENTj suggested for Eminem but never INFp. (or ESTj for that matter, strrrng)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  13. #13
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,092
    Mentioned
    165 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  14. #14
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,092
    Mentioned
    165 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Also, compare Eminem to IEI's like Garmonbozia and Strrrng
    Compare what? Body lotion?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  15. #15
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,092
    Mentioned
    165 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Whatever makes you happy.
    Only Steve makes me happy.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  16. #16
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol...the reason they have a resemblance is because they're both Te sub delta ST's

    and why compare marshall to me and garmon?
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  17. #17
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I think all three of you are IEI's which display aggressive tendencies.

    Why is Eminem Te and Delta?
    I think he's just a really counter-phobic 6. He's VI's much more delta ST (hence the resemblance to mcveigh).
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  18. #18
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,494
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Te-ISTp most likely.
    i'd be more keen on your ENFp typing of me if you didn't type so many serial killers as my dual.
    lol...they just need some love
    not from me!
    lol
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  19. #19
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,846
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I think he's just a really counter-phobic 6. He's VI's much more delta ST (hence the resemblance to mcveigh).
    I think you have serious misconceptions about what a delta ST is.

    (and the amount of people you type as "counter phobic 6" is somewhat laughable)


    I'm not sure about Mcveigh, but I feel like Eminem places a lot more empisis on Ni and Fe when it comes to his music, as he often uses the the past and his emotions as general themes. He's had a rough life and all these pent up emotions from his marriage, mother, ect. and you can really pick up his feelings rather deeply. I just feel like a Te type would have little to no interest or even be afraid to even go there.
    Exactly. Not really something a delta ST would enjoy dwelling in
    Nor is whining about how hard your life is.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  20. #20
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    So you're placing you're confidence on VI and the Enneagram alone?
    No. I've observed him for a bit, and I don't think he's a beta NF. Just in his demeanor and general thought patterns

    I'm not sure about Mcveigh, but I feel like Eminem places a lot more empisis on Ni and Fe when it comes to his music, as he often uses the the past and his emotions as general themes. He's had a rough life and all these pent up emotions from his marriage, mother, ect. and you can really pick up his feelings rather deeply. I just feel like a Te type would have little to no interest or even be afraid to even go there. Let's not forget he's a rather turbulent man; can you really see him getting along with a bunch of Deltas for a long period of time?
    Yeah, he uses emotions, just like 99% of rappers. And just because he has some childhood mommy fixation, doesn't mean he's using "Ni" to see into the past or whatever. He seems to favor the more self-contained Fi method of processing things, but I really don't feel like getting into a debate about this, so I can't offer much more. And he's turbulent just because he's a badass mofo from the ghetto; passion doesn't have to be beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    I think you have serious misconceptions about what a delta ST is.
    Are you serious? This coming from the guy who has an erroneous self-typing of ESTj. Give me a fucking break.

    (and the amount of people you type as "counter phobic 6" is somewhat laughable)
    It's not my fault they're everywhere.

    Exactly. Not really something a delta ST would enjoy dwelling in
    Nor is whining about how hard your life is.
    Right. Because they're all such pragmatic hard-workers like yourself.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  21. #21

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,163
    Mentioned
    229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    There was a really hot gay porno out called 'Oklahomo' in circa 1998.

    What does that have to do with anything, you ask. I don't know, I just remember that.

    I agree that Eminem is stuck in his inner worlds.

  22. #22
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,846
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Are you serious? This coming from the guy who has an erroneous self-typing of ESTj. Give me a fucking break.
    This coming from the whiny bitch who constantly runs his mouth any time he gets the chance to talk about my type, saying the reason I do anything is "Ti". Once you stop trying to make such a big deal about your opinion, and most of all, stop trying to make me "look bad" because disagree with me, maybe your opinion will mean something.

    You don't know what a delta ST is, nor do you understand what an LII is, for that matter.
    How many other "Ne-LIIs" give you so much shit here on the forum?
    (Last time I checked, by the way, you typed almost every LII on here as a "6w5". Just about every person you could think of who fit under LII)

    You're a strange mix of insight and convolution fueled by emotional thinking, and you show almost no difference when you go between the two.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  23. #23
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    This coming from the whiny bitch who constantly runs his mouth any time he gets the chance to talk about my type, saying the reason I do anything is "Ti". Once you stop trying to make such a big deal about your opinion, and most of all, stop trying to make me "look bad" because disagree with me, maybe your opinion will mean something.
    lol, you're the only person who says my opinion on your type means nothing, but judging from your response here, it obviously does And the fact that I express it in a mocking tone does not detract from the accuracy of it. You're just Ti-valuing, and it's obvious to me. Just because you've memorized a bunch of rules about what a delta ST is in your Ti manual, doesn't suddenly make you one. Stop lashing out at the ones who see through you.

    You don't know what a delta ST is, nor do you understand what an LII is, for that matter.
    How many other "Ne-LIIs" give you so much shit here on the forum?
    (Last time I checked, by the way, you typed almost every LII on here as a "6w5". Just about every person you could think of who fit under LII)
    Actually, I understand both types. And I don't recall many other Ne-INTj's giving me shit on the forum. So? The reason you "give me shit" (which I perceive as contrived jabs) is because a)you're trying to prove how you dislike INFp's to buttress your self-typing, or b)I make fun of you for your erroneous self-typing and you react. Doesn't prove shit.

    And check my wiki userlist. I have 3 Ne-INTjs from this forum, none of which are 6's, and two celebrities, who are 6's (simon cowell could be 5w6 or 1w9...have to look back into it).

    You're a strange mix of insight and convolution fueled by emotional thinking, and you show almost no difference when you go between the two.
    Maybe you just mistake my emotional tones for emotional thinking and miss what I'm really saying
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  24. #24
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,846
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    And the fact that I express it in a mocking tone does not detract from the accuracy of it. You're just Ti-valuing, and it's obvious to me. Just because you've memorized a bunch of rules about what a delta ST is in your Ti manual, doesn't suddenly make you one. Stop lashing out at the ones who see through you.
    When people reduce their understanding of you to claiming you "memorize a bunch of rules" about a type, it's no surprise that I disagree with you. I'll disagree (which you label here as lashing out) out at whoever I like, especially if they are acting like a punk - and especially if your are openly being mocking.

    Maybe you just mistake my emotional tones for emotional thinking and miss what I'm really saying
    You take any thing that comes up and funnel it back to your propaganda about me being valuing, because you "just know it", and think if you pout, make sarcastic remarks, or use social appeal/flare, that it will seem convincing.

    It's what you say here:
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    And I can also be a moody asshole, so I might behave in a way to purposely be confronted. Like, if there's a problem, get all brooding and make subtly derisive comments, hoping the person will tell me to shut the fuck up. Then the fun begins
    That's all I see you as doing. You seem to be disagreeing with me more for your own fun and stirring up shit rather than actually considering anything about me. It's just fun to you. And yes, while I realize it's only "fun and games" to you, these posts are more directed at other people. I know there won't be any change in your opinio, so I express this to other people, wondering if I ever disagree with what Strrrng says.

    Carry on.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  25. #25
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    When people reduce their understanding of you to claiming you "memorize a bunch of rules" about a type, it's no surprise that I disagree with you. I'll disagree (which you label here as lashing out) out at whoever I like, especially if they are acting like a punk - and especially if your are openly being mocking.
    That isn't my only understanding of you. I've observed you for months (and back at introspectives). Sorry I don't care enough to go into discourses on your type.

    You take any thing that comes up and funnel it back to your propaganda about me being valuing, because you "just know it", and think if you pout, make sarcastic remarks, or use social appeal/flare, that it will seem convincing.
    I do know it. And a lot of what you do represents a Ti preference, so there's no reason why I shouldn't point it out.

    It's what you say here:
    Bullshit. That was in reference to relationships, not forum debates. And if it was about a forum debate, I wouldn't be a "moody bastard to be put in my place," but rather, confrontational to gauge people, because the ones that see through the immediate aggression and argue without vexation are the ones that matter to me. songsofsappho did it recently, it was like a god-send. But, I guess you're just another person who fell for my front. shrug.

    That's all I see you as doing. You seem to be disagreeing with me more for your own fun and stirring up shit rather than actually considering anything about me. It's just fun to you. And yes, while I realize it's only "fun and games" to you, these posts are more directed at other people. I know there won't be any change in your opinio, so I express this to other people, wondering if I ever disagree with what Strrrng says.

    Carry on.
    It's not always for fun; I believe everything I say about your type. It just happens to be fun because of how satirical your case is or something. The contrast between your self-perception and actual actions is comical at times. I guess at this point it's just fun, because you don't really consider anyone's opinions on your type seriously. And why are you expressing this to other people?
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  26. #26
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ILI for mcveigh. eminem is not delta st.

    delta sts: john fucking madden. get real whoever is out there. delta st is almost completely harmless, probably among the most harmless types.
    asd

  27. #27
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,166
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    I have seen ENTp, ISTp and ENTj suggested for Eminem but never INFp. (or ESTj for that matter, strrrng)
    I think Starfall is closer to the mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by heath View Post
    ILI for mcveigh. eminem is not delta st.

    delta sts: john fucking madden. get real whoever is out there. delta st is almost completely harmless, probably among the most harmless types.
    More understandable.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    214
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    For McVeigh, I think a disturbed Beta NF is possible. The wiki article in several instances mentions that he "expressed his rage" for something or other. A fascination with guns reminds me of a LSI I know.

    I am thinking that he could be extraverted (willingly moved around a lot, was very active in pursuing his interests), but that could be just attributed to his unstableness. Compare McVeigh's travels across the country's gun shows with Ted Kaczynski's (The Unabomber), who stayed in a cabin in The Middle of Nowhere, Montana, manufacturing bombs.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski

    As for Eminem, absolutely Beta, probably NF. This is obvious if you look at who he constantly interacts with, the content of his songs, and the way he rose to the top. I remember one article described him as manipulating and even purposefully worsening his own public image and reputation; his songs make fun of and hype up many of the negative points of his own life.

  29. #29
    kensi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Ab, Canada
    Posts
    567
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ISTj or INTp most likely from what i can remember of him.
    ENTP:wink:ALPHA

  30. #30
    kensi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Ab, Canada
    Posts
    567
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    eminem- ENTj or INTp
    ENTP:wink:ALPHA

  31. #31
    JRiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Indian Territory
    TIM
    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so
    Posts
    838
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Man, we really accomplish a whole lot in these typing threads.

    Timothy McVeigh does look Te-ISTp to me by VI. I guess Te-INTp could be a remote possibility, but a lot of things about him just scream Delta to me.

    Emimem is Te-ESTj; compare Eminem to Rob Thomas (similar look) or Bobby Knight (similar demeanor and attitude). They are all Te-ESTj cp6w7s.

    UDP is not ESTj. Nothing about him is remotely ESTj. No one believes he is ESTj. I don't even know why he thinks he is ESTj.

    Kensi types anyone that shows any aggression as gamma or maybe beta.

    Let's keep arguing. We're really getting somewhere.

    JRiddy
    —————King of Socionics—————

    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    214
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Man, we really accomplish a whole lot in these typing threads.

    Timothy McVeigh does look Te-ISTp to me by VI. I guess Te-INTp could be a remote possibility, but a lot of things about him just scream Delta to me.

    Emimem is Te-ESTj; compare Eminem to Rob Thomas (similar look) or Bobby Knight (similar demeanor and attitude). They are all Te-ESTj cp6w7s
    I agree. We get little done in these type threads. Mostly because people use VI and seem to forget there is a whole theory to socionics types that goes against what they are saying.

    Eminem is very conscious of his image and purposefully manipulates it. LSEs do not and honestly cannot do that. He rose to the top in a heavily Se industry where he stood out as right-off-the-bat defective. He used emotionality and apparent mental instability to get people to notice him. If you've ever listened to his songs or watched any of his music videos, his strong Ne is apparent but also completely random and often without strict logical flow from one thought to the next. His complete denouncement of all "political correctness" is standard ignoring Fi. The fact that, in real life, he actually is not as much of a badass as he makes himself out to be in his songs points away from Se-ego.

    McVeigh is tentative. No one expects him to be brimming and smiling. That the overwhelming majority of mass murderers in history have come from Beta makes me doubt McVeigh as being from Delta.
    Surtout, pas trop de zčle.

  33. #33
    jessica129's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,121
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I thought Timothy Mcveigh was still alive, lol

  34. #34
    JRiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Indian Territory
    TIM
    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so
    Posts
    838
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle View Post
    I agree. We get little done in these type threads. Mostly because people use VI and seem to forget there is a whole theory to socionics types that goes against what they are saying.

    Eminem is very conscious of his image and purposefully manipulates it. LSEs do not and honestly cannot do that. He rose to the top in a heavily Se industry where he stood out as right-off-the-bat defective. He used emotionality and apparent mental instability to get people to notice him. If you've ever listened to his songs or watched any of his music videos, his strong Ne is apparent but also completely random and often without strict logical flow from one thought to the next. His complete denouncement of all "political correctness" is standard ignoring Fi. The fact that, in real life, he actually is not as much of a badass as he makes himself out to be in his songs points away from Se-ego.

    McVeigh is tentative. No one expects him to be brimming and smiling. That the overwhelming majority of mass murderers in history have come from Beta makes me doubt McVeigh as being from Delta.
    Actually this is why I prefer VI to "theory" in many cases. Why could an ESTj not manipulate his image? Weak Fe? Image isn't all Fe. Or Ni. Did you know that INFps can't be programmers because they have weak Te? Or that ENTps can't be counselors because their weakness in Fi prevents them from really understanding people? Don't treat the functions that concretely.

    Denouncing political correctness = standard ignoring Fi? Political correctness isn't inherently linked to any particular function. You can't take whole multi-faceted social constructs like that and relate them to a function that simply.

    Also...I was never suggesting Se-ego at all...I was suggesting Te-ESTj / LSE-Te / () . If you're going to talk theory, please at least know what types have what ego functions.

    Regarding your position on McVeigh...what do you even mean by "no one expects him to be brimming and smiling"? And...regarding your second point...you are not distinguishing between different kinds of mass murderers. The tyrants who rose to power and used militarism and dramatic displays of patriotism and so forth and then murdered millions, like Hitler, Stalin, etc. ...yeah, they are Beta. But an individual working with a couple friends to engage in an isolated act of terrorism...that's a different kind of thing altogether. Equivocation is not welcome here.

    JRiddy
    —————King of Socionics—————

    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so

  35. #35
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you, Riddy. I'm glad someone had the energy that I simply couldn't muster to correct idiocy today.

  36. #36
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    The problem with VI is that everyone's perceptions are going to be different. It's not dependable.
    It is if you have accurate conceptions of functions, temperament, etc., and how said things manifest ostensibly.

    The same issue of subjectivity could be assigned to theoretical understanding. Despite peoples' attempts to objectify the theory into some correct paradigm—"classical socionics"—everyone basically reinvents it to suit there personal biases/expectations/etc., rendering any significant reliability null and void.

  37. #37
    JRiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Indian Territory
    TIM
    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so
    Posts
    838
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    The problem with VI is that everyone's perceptions are going to be different. It's not dependable.
    And typing by description is? It's so easy to misconstrue pieces of any individual's personality into something that isn't them. At least VI is honest about it being perception-based. When people offer more detailed, often concrete explanations, it often gives the misleading appearance of objectivity.

    JRiddy
    —————King of Socionics—————

    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so

  38. #38
    JRiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Indian Territory
    TIM
    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so
    Posts
    838
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    To me that kind of sounds like you're more or less going on gut feeling alone, and that's really not enough imo.
    When you drive a car, you typically don't make decisions on how hard to push the pedals or how much to turn the wheel based on an explicit observation and calculation of factors. It's too complex and time-consuming, and fraught with error. Instead, you develop your instincts and intuitions to be able to "feel" those things out. It may not "explain" much, but we can go back and measure later.

    Since typing has so many variables involved, it's similar to driving in that the best and most reliable method is to develop your instincts and intuitions and "feel" the types out through VI or some other means. It sure hell is hard to explain, but people have a natural affinity for this kind of stuff.

    JRiddy
    —————King of Socionics—————

    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so

  39. #39
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,798
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I thought you'd say something exactly like that.

    You have a point, but I'm sure you could understand why some would find a theoretical understanding of something to be more feasible than visual conceptions alone. It becomes way too abstract. What if one's personality is totally off balance to what you take them to be through VI? To me that kind of sounds like you're more or less going on gut feeling alone, and that's really not enough imo.
    Well, the theory is just a background. It's sort of like where people use a black light to search through the dark and eventually certain things become more apparent. kind of. Like, ok, I know these premises, etc. etc. and these traits apply here. But you have to actually see it. Then you really know. And functions are very integral things, so their manifestations won't be perturbed by peoples' transient moods, acts, etc. (i.e. some ESTj machismo trying to act "Se"). Actually the black light thing makes sense. Because it's not as if you're blindly searching in the dark; you have the light as a sort of general support tool thing. But it's also sort of about letting the patterns evince themselves.

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    214
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Actually this is why I prefer VI to "theory" in many cases. Why could an ESTj not manipulate his image? Weak Fe? Image isn't all Fe. Or Ni. Did you know that INFps can't be programmers because they have weak Te? Or that ENTps can't be counselors because their weakness in Fi prevents them from really understanding people? Don't treat the functions that concretely.
    Because socionics is about what elements we use to interact with our surroundings, what elements those close to us appreciate, and what elements we prefer to surround ourselves with. I never said: Eminem is a rapper; he must be Se-valuing. I said he is constantly surrounded and is best friends with Se-valuing people. I also said that he himself is not Se-valuing because he obviously possesses strong intuition and that he consciously and constantly uses his emotions. Thus, he must be an Se-valuing, intuitive, ethical type, which means Beta NF.

    What did you say? Uh, here's a picture where someone, who makes himself out as a "bad boy", looks (suprise, surprise) pissed, which reminds me of these other people who also look pissed. Since they are all pissed, they must be of a single type.

    I believe I should also mention that Delta STs and STs in general are less aware of how they are seen by others, hence it is harder for them to manipulate their image, but possible to effectively use their reputation (Beta STs would use it more in line of Beta NF image manipulation, while Delta STs would use it more to establish their record of correctness). Image is not entirely Fe (intuition is also needed), but it is mostly Fe and to suggest that a Delta ST can maintain such an extended focus on a super-ego element is lunacy.

    Honestly, I have seen socionists claim that one person or another is a type using their super-ego elements, but such views are rare and I think can mostly be discounted.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Denouncing political correctness = standard ignoring Fi? Political correctness isn't inherently linked to any particular function. You can't take whole multi-faceted social constructs like that and relate them to a function that simply.
    Gulenko's possible emination of EIE's Fi-ignoring, which I agree with. Actually, he used the words "a critic and denouncers of customs." I linked it widely to political correctness because Fi-devaluing quadras are the ones that allow insensitivity to a person. Anti-PC is also a quality of Beta in this age, since PC is mostly against Se derisive insults.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Also...I was never suggesting Se-ego at all...I was suggesting Te-ESTj / LSE-Te / () . If you're going to talk theory, please at least know what types have what ego functions.
    I know. I've seen others (not necessarily on this thread) suggest Se-ego, which I think is by far a more reasonable suggestion than TeSi ego. I might also suggest that you reconnect to the theory, or at least stop using photos where he is obviously posing for the camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Regarding your position on McVeigh...what do you even mean by "no one expects him to be brimming and smiling"? And...regarding your second point...you are not distinguishing between different kinds of mass murderers. The tyrants who rose to power and used militarism and dramatic displays of patriotism and so forth and then murdered millions, like Hitler, Stalin, etc. ...yeah, they are Beta. But an individual working with a couple friends to engage in an isolated act of terrorism...that's a different kind of thing altogether. Equivocation is not welcome here.
    I am distinguishing between them. I am not even looking at solely the leaders but also the movements themselves. Osama bin Laden and all of Al Qaeda, the IRA, South American Revolutionaries, the Vietcong, Pol Pot and his merry band in Cambodia, etc are Beta-inspired, have Beta sentiments, are led by Betas, or hold Beta ideals.

    The type of mindframe that a "rationally thinking", individually-acting mass murderer has to have is a) a belief that force works or will convince enough people to effect change, and b) probably a lack of actual Se, which would have at least informed him of the actual amount of force needed to effect said change. In McVeigh's case, this latter may not have been true, as his act was revenge-motivated, and he may not have considered further change a primary goal. McVeigh's recruiting efforts and the fact that he tried to propogate his views at gun shows across the nation, to me, suggests a delineation from the IP temperament. I do not have a strong case for Beta vs Gamma other than his act was not expressly cold, but rather an emotional response to other incidents.
    Surtout, pas trop de zčle.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •