Duals most and least likely to argue
The EIE/LSI duality description mentions that they have a tendency to quarrel... to me this seems sort of ridiculous. The most "ideal" relationship for each of them involves get into fights????
Of all of the duality pairs, which do you think is most and least likely to quarrel?
(btw, this makes sense, looking at the relationship I had with an LSI. He didn't seem to think that our fighting was a negative thing.He encouraged/caused them much of the time, and I assumed it was because he was still extremely immature (he was a few years younger than me).
Hmmm. My EIE aunt definitely does not shy away from fighting with either my SEI uncle or anyone else. I know two IEI/SLE couples and from what I know of them, they never fight. I know a couple LSE/EII couples and they don't seem to fight either. But I guess that doesn't surprise me about EIEs.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Joy, is that a maltese puppy in your avatar?
IEI-Fe 4w3
Mom is a miniature schnauzer, not sure what the father is. The human society bought a puppy mill when the owner retired and my parents are fostering them (and their mother) until they're old enough to be adopted. One of the puppies looks sort of like a yorkshire terrier? I'll make a topic about it in anything goes and post other pics.
Yeah, my parents are probably SLE and IEI and never fight, and I think LSE's and EII's would be one of the least likely dual pairs to fight. So... what do you think, rationals, Fe, and (perhaps?) Se valuing types are most likely to argue as such?Originally Posted by redbaron
I know EIE's and mystic sonic (if I recall correctly) sometimes say it's better to have emotional outbursts because then things can get cleared up and progress can be made. I MUCH prefer it when people just SAY they have a problem and what it is and them calmly discuss it. (I can't say this is what I always do though, especially if I'm tired or burned out or whatever.)
Least likely to quarrel: Deltas. However, they also have a tendency to backstab each other, talk behind others' backs, talk indirectly or to others differently about you, etc. The way I would describe it is avoid the issues. Regardless, they lead pretty separate lives and do not feel the need for bonding. Their relationships can survive almost anything because, oddly enough, even a break up or divorce does not change the nature of the relationship.
Most likely to quarrel: Betas. Betas have the need to state and address the problems. They tend to reevaluate their relationship on a constant basis. They also can need physical contact as each partner needs functions of the other that are not easily transferrable long-distance. The tendency to fight comes when addressing the fundamentals of a relationship; Betas can quarrel about little things, but mostly when they see them as indicative of a bigger problem. Through fighting, the two either reaffirm their relationship or decide it is unsalvageable.
It's a matter of perspective really I think. What might look like a fight to an outsider doesn't have to feel like a fight to the couple. Different styles of communication. So I dunno which duals actually have real disagreements more, were they themselves see it as arguing. From my perspective if I were to choose I would say EIE and LSI.
Here are the descriptions of the 8 dual relationships and their characteristics.
http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.3.rels/index.html
Maybe those are helpful.
um, this actually makes a lot of sense.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Yeah, I like that. I do need constant validation in relationships, which causes arguements- but it's just how I operate.
From the EIE/LSI duality description: "The Inspector does not trust the feelings of the others. Trying not to show it, he is sometimes courteous and agreeable in communication. But he quickly gets tired of such efforts and needs solitude, switching his attention to work. He likes a partner like The Mentor, who is capable of ardent expression of his feelings. Such behavior leaves no space for doubts. In this case The Inspector has only to watch that these feelings remain stable, and to take care of the one whom needs him so much. Feeling coldness from the side of others, he shrinks into himself, becomes inaccessible and touchy. He can keep this pain inside for a long time, and this may even result in quarrels for nothing, for reasons seemingly quite irrelevant to the real problem. The Mentor also needs emotional discharging and is quite capable of provoking quarrels."Weird... I had the exact same thing happening to me with my LSI ex. He kind of "encouraged" me to quarrel. I thought he was just very unhealthy.
Still, I'm not sure different dual types quarrel more or less than others?
My most peaceful relationship was with an SLE-Se. We had a 4 years long relationship, and didn't quarrel even once. I never directly quarreled with my other SLE neither, actually.
Had it not been for all the power-fights I had with my younger SLE sister during her teens, I'd think SLE-IEIs were the most peaceful duals.
The part about Beta does, but the part about Delta makes little sense to me.
Yeah, I agree with ZTCrawcrustle.
I identify with the Beta one a lot more...
?? I don't know about that. The delta couples I know spend quite a lot of time together... Um, I classify this as bonding? Are you talking about sharing their feelings about the other person?Regardless, they lead pretty separate lives and do not feel the need for bonding.
I don't think this happens in a good relationship. The only times I've known deltas (or anyone!) to talk about their partner in this manner is if they really aren't compatible, in which case there's really no way to 'fix' it. If you have divergent lifestyles, you can't demand that the person change themselves to fit you. You can argue about it all you want, but really you just need to break up and find someone who fits you better.However, they also have a tendency to backstab each other, talk behind others' backs, talk indirectly or to others differently about you, etc.
Good example: my ex (and dual). I used to gripe about his drinking because I felt like it was someday going to become a real dependence for him and that's the only way he spends his time - binging with the guys. But you know what? That's not going to change about him. He wants a woman who's his drinking buddy, and I really can't be that for him. It's just not central to my life and never will be. So had we gotten married, I could have argued with him over it for the rest of our lives, but it never would have changed.
Another example: the guy my best friend dated. He was her dual, but he was also a workaholic with a child to support. He never found time for her, and it really bothered her, so she'd vent to me about it. They broke it off after just a few months.
I think people just have a hard time realizing that no matter how much chemistry you have initially, other forces can negate all of it. The more life experience you get and the more mature you are, you realize more quickly when things aren't working out. I'm not sure how much of this is actually related to type - perhaps some, but anyone can get sucked into wishful thinking. Hell, you're only human.
The happy couples I know never talk about each other like that. They've usually had just a few fights ever. There's a difference between quibbling over which movie to watch and fights that are symptomatic of major differences.
Last edited by tiny_dancer; 12-12-2008 at 02:17 PM. Reason: because I talk too much, that's why.
IEE
I know two IEI/LSI couples. The LSIs both kind of poke the IEIs in a way, trying to stir things up or something. And the IEIs don't bite if they can help it. The one LSI that I know the best seems to really enjoy a good debate (in general) whether it be with friends or his wife. He loves to get into it, to disagree and have it out. I think my IEI friend doesn't always appreciate that. She laughs at him and then pushes him off to his male friends. When it comes to personal stuff between the two of them, they don't shy away from addressing things, but I would say that she doesn't have the same need to lay things out and talk them through that the LSI does. She (like me) wants the bottom line and then be done with it.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Big shocker there.Yeah, I agree with ZTCrawcrustle.
I identify with the Beta one a lot more...
I actually like getting in verbal fights. I used to provoke a lot of verbal arguments with my mother as a child, and it's the reason we're so close emotionally: we would have a shouting match for maybe 20, 30 minutes about something pretty innocuous that would escalate to addressing other personal issues, but after that we would both cry and hug and make upPart of it is knowing first hand that the other person isn't going to abandon/seriously change their opinion of you over something stupid, which is nice. Studies have shown that overcoming obstacles and emotional turmoil with another person releases oxytocin in the brain, a chemical associated with increased feelings of safety, trust, and empathy. Also it's a great way to discharge stress and release internal tension; sometimes people build up negativity just from going about daily life, and who better to release it with than one whose feelings you know aren't going to change over something trivial? Sure beats repression.
It also helps put things out in the open that you may have thought of consciously as irrelevant but were bothering you anyways; not everybody is perfect, and sometimes the only way to discharge little frustrations is to put them in a context where, afterward, you can look back and honestly say, "Man, did I really say that? I guess that was bothering me more than I thought, but it really is petty, isn't it?"
The real scoop is, nobody on the planet earth is perfect enough to work through every bump in the road calmly and rationally, and if you think you are, odds are there are things you are not addressing, and you're also missing out on a big part of what helps a relationship grow.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Come have lots of rage and oxytocin with me, jessYeah, I agree with ZTCrawcrustle.
I identify with the Beta one a lot more...
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
re: deltas avoiding the issues, I've seen this in two EII/SEI marriages (I know SEIs aren't deltas but they are also MAJOR avoiders of conflict). This can be a serious problem with this particular pairing. Everything's "fine", for years and years, nothing gets addressed, it's always easier to just lead your responsible lives without ever facing anything negative. Eventually they grow apart, even if only in their heads, and this is a problem in a marriage. Gosh, I would SO much rather fight than have a marriage like that. In fact, even watching it from the outside makes me frustrated for THEM and makes me want to scream at them. But I suppose it's okay for them??
anyway, that comment was off topic since it wasn't about a dual pair. sorry.
IEI-Fe 4w3
You know I actually agreed with you a lot on what you wrote. If those things are missing from relationships, I tend to wonder if there's any passion there...I mean, you know someone really loves you went they want to kill you in those moments of passion. I've been in so many relationships were we didnt' fight, didn't disagree on anything and everything was all smiley and "perfect" and i wanted to rip my hair out and eventually blew up and ended everything. There's no passion there...it's a very depressing situation for me.Come have lots of rage and oxytocin with me, jess
OMG, I can only imagine!
Congratulations, you are now officially LSI in my book.
lol! I'm scared.
I agree.
I have a hard time seeing things this way.
@tinydancer: I agree with everything you said. Great post.
idk, ime i have found a lot of IEEs to be rather conflict averse. i mean, the Fi remains stable and they feel however they felt about you initially. but there aren't any huge drops/lifts in emotions. that being a way to prevent arguments. i can't get a lot of deltas (IEEs at least) to argue with me. or really, to debate me.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Come have lots of rage and oxytocin with me, jess
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
yes, I see that with my IEE friend also. I mean, not only with his friendships but in his marriage (to an ESE).
IEI-Fe 4w3
I will fucking jump off a cliff if I ever get to the point where I can imagine a Delta saying something like this. You need to get over this SLI bullshit; I think this IP/IJ temperament business. which actually has very little to do with Socionics, is getting in your way.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Over what? Like relationship stuff or philosophical debates?i can't get a lot of deltas to argue with me.
I guess that's because I figure I'm not going to change your mind - I don't really want to change your mind.. and I don't care whether you agree with me or not. Soooo... I guess I just don't see the point
Hey - I got this SEE I know who likes to debate... ya wanna' meet 'im?
IEE
That's just your Ti getting in the way.lol! I'm scared.
How does that translate to back stabbing though?
Over what? Like relationship stuff or philosophical debates?
I guess that's because I figure I'm not going to change your mind - I don't really want to change your mind.. and I don't care whether you agree with me or not. Soooo... I guess I just don't see the point
Hey - I got this SEE I know who likes to debate... ya wanna' meet 'im?
lol. no, they'll argue and get mad at me over some ethical issues, if i don't agree or see their point. but other than that, i just don't generally find IEEs to enjoy it. i'm not bent on changing anyone's mind either, i just enjoy comparing opinions and don't necessarily have to agree with someone on it or have to cause a fight (unless it's something VERY SERIOUS.) although they say the best way to end a good relationship is to debate on heavy issues, hah. it isn't a bad thing! just a thing i've noticed.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
not sure, i wouldn't know if they'd backstabbed me!
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
My EII mother will talk politics or philosophy, up to a point (a lot more so than my SEI dad, who stays away from anything argumentative). I think she just likes to hear different viewpoints (not that ANYthing said EVER changes her mind) and is able to talk calmly, trying to digest the other person's view. I admire her for her participation. And she will usually walk away from it with a greater sense of who the other person is, even though she won't agree and maybe not even really understand what you were saying. She never ever makes you feel like you're "stupid" or "wrong" (even when she does think you're wrong) which makes it safe. She does however have this look of worry or disappointment if she thinks your moral standards are too low (or: too far away from hers). That can be a killer.
I'm off topic again. ugh.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Maybe confiding to a friend about problems in your relationship to get it all sorted out in your head (instead of just throwing a fit about it right away) would look like talking behind someone's back to some Betas?
it would be taken like lodging a complaint against the group, i think.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Not really, but avoiding mutually felt tension would certainly be devastating.
However I will say that, whether the other person "works it out" or whatever for themselves, it's important to bring it out into the open regardless, because there very well may be something worth talking over.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I think that's cool.
Yeah - this I think is somehow an Ne/Se difference. Se-valuers usually know when their lines are being crossed, whereas if something bothers me, I do realize that it bothers me, but I don't know how big of an argument it deserves. Sometimes I don't know where my boundaries are, in a way. It's weird, but true. Just because something disappoints me or angers me, is it really my business to tell the other person to *be* different just for me? It usually takes me a while to figure out what kind of a solution would satisfy me.Maybe confiding to a friend about problems in your relationship to get it all sorted out in your head (instead of just throwing a fit about it right away) would look like talking behind someone's back to some Betas?
IEE
Among other things but you are almost convincing me. The more I actually learn and pick up this socionics business, its making sense.
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