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Thread: Examples of ISTj and ESTp philosophers?

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Examples of ISTj and ESTp philosophers?

    Examples?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Clearance level: 10 (9 is maximum) Fermi's Avatar
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    Bah!
    is like a wet kiss on the cheek and a warm hug by a cute smiling girl.
    is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
    is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
    is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.

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    Ayn Rand.

    Although I vaguely remember something about her decrying philosophy—at least its normal form—in a way. But doing so was just a part of her philosophy (which I found to be sub-par).

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    Ragnar Redbeard
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    Beta ST?
    Pretty sure of it. The nature of her philosophy itself, and the way she presented it seem pretty Se + Ti. VI's like one as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Pretty sure of it. The nature of her philosophy itself, and the way she presented it seem pretty Se + Ti. VI's like one as well.
    That's interesting. I don't claim to know her type, but I would have said Alpha NT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    That's interesting. I don't claim to know her type, but I would have said Alpha NT.
    My initial impression was INTj, mainly for superficial reasons. I don't think constructing some theoretical model or whatever is intrinsic to alpha NT's, but the nature of it definitely is. Hers had little margin for alternatives, and was more of pragmatic tool than anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    My initial impression was INTj, mainly for superficial reasons. I don't think constructing some theoretical model or whatever is intrinsic to alpha NT's, but the nature of it definitely is. Hers had little margin for alternatives, and was more of pragmatic tool than anything else.
    It would have been pragmatic had she put it into place, but she didn't; she wrote a bunch of novels and books on philosophy. I would expect a Beta ST to be out doing something to put their ideas into practics, not spending decades writing [spectacular] books about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    It would have been pragmatic had she put it into place, but she didn't; she wrote a bunch of novels and books on philosophy. I would expect a Beta ST to be out doing something to put their ideas into practics, not spending decades writing [spectacular] books about them.
    You don't think she practiced it in her own life, with an immediate group of associates? I believe she said so herself (in an interview with playboy lol). And writing books is a way of implementing it; it's a tangible manifestation of the ideas which can be dispersed, to further facilitate the cycle of learning and applying in others. Not all beta ST's have to be ostriches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    14
    <3
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Christopher Langan Don't know him.
    B F Skinner Agree, and with Ayn Rand. Apparently she hated Skinner with a passion though. His work, anyway.
    Yukio Mishima Possibly, I remember reading one of his books, but I don't remember much about it. Something about some sailor doing a kid's mom and him not being happy about it. He and his friends may have beat a dog with a stick. I forget.
    Phaedrus?
    Thomas Hobbes? Yeah, I think so.
    Osamu Dazai might qualify as a Beta philosopher. He was a novelist/short story kind of guy, though I think probably EIE > IEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    That's interesting. I don't claim to know her type, but I would have said Alpha NT.
    "I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

    Se?
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    "I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

    Se?
    Why Se?

    If anything I could see that being anti-Se, because she [John Galt?] has no interest in influencing others nor in being influenced by others - she just wants to be left alone to be independently successful or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    That's interesting. I don't claim to know her type, but I would have said Alpha NT.
    Haha, then you haven't read anything she's written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    <3
    Paedo.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Paedo.
    lol, jxrtes PM'd me and said the exact same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Ahaha
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Difference between me and him: he probably means it, hence the PM.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Haha, then you haven't read anything she's written.
    Um, okay. Well said, Ezra.

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    Hobbes = the man.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    Why Se?

    If anything I could see that being anti-Se, because she [John Galt?] has no interest in influencing others nor in being influenced by others - she just wants to be left alone to be independently successful or not.
    I don't think Se WANTS to influence. I think Se just wants things done... Se likes to lead... but is not necessarily DESIRE to influence.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Hobbes = the man.
    Hobbes = everything bad about a Six.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Twist-Tie Spider iAnnAu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Christopher Langan
    B F Skinner
    Yukio Mishima
    Phaedrus?
    Thomas Hobbes?
    Skinner's book Walden Two became the basis upon which several US communes were formed in the 60s. Almost every single one of them failed, usually in a short time, and the few that survived had to modify, modify, modify. I read the book, and it's an interesting grab-bag of pragmatic details pasted onto an extremely idealistic opinion that humans can all get along perfectly if they merely state it as a desire. Like a cult without a religion for an excuse.

    One of the surviving communes is Twin Oaks in Virginia. I've visited it several times, and finally concluded I could not live there long-term. I admire the people who live there because they put a lot of effort both into knowing themselves and to working out their differences in order to keep the community from collapsing ... but it's still a bunch of humans, and the petty politics is much harder to ignore than in mainstream society. I remember one of the members telling me that almost none of the original tenets that the community founders took from Skinner are still observed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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    Ol' Dirty Bastard
    Richard Nixon
    Bear Grylls
    Lou Reed

    JRiddy
    —————King of Socionics—————

    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Richard Nixon
    Wasn't Nixon ESI?
    Surtout, pas trop de zèle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle View Post
    Wasn't Nixon ESI?
    I have him down as Ti-ESTp. Although I can certainly understand a Gamma SF typing, but I think his fairly "serious" demeanor is more dramatic and a feature of his controlled presentation than a casually and comfortably "serious" ISFj. Some of his famous speeches, like the "Checkers" speech, really exhibit him playing with Fe in a kinda of calculated way like I would expect from a beta ST.

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