Guess my type

[Angel von Himmel]

Yeaaa ... another "guess my type" ... it seems no one has questioned my types for months already.

[Angel von Himmel]

... but you can change your type!

I know how to switch between using and ... and and I use and interchangeably somewhere along with those. And I can spot and in others, though I think I am better at using personally.

Anyhow ... I can change my type in that manner.

[crazedrat]

you're either INFj or jesus

[Angel von Himmel]

you're either INFj or jesus

Still think so ... ?

Do I seem open and strong to people ... ?

[crazedrat]

you're just playing starcraft

[Angel von Himmel]

you're just playing starcraft

Do INFjs like to play starcraft ... ?

[crazedrat]

Funny you ask about it. There's this INFj who calls himself "mystery" who invented a whole psychology centered around picking up girls.
But you know, all this seems to involve interpersonal relations. I don't see you writing essays on evolution vs. nihilism with your shiny new set of functions

[Angel von Himmel]

Funny you ask about it. There's this INFj who calls himself "mystery" who invented a whole psychology centered around picking up girls.

You think mystery is INFj ... ? I always typed him as ENFj

His pick-up model has amazingly large amounts of , , and in it and he seems to have mixed the way INFp, ENFj, and ESTj use functions together. His neg theory is obviously derived.

Of course, he could very well be INFj and that is just the way his theory came out in book form.

He seem to like to peacock and that just screams of ISFj hidden agenda or he could just be copying ISFjs.

[crazedrat]

I watched a few of interviews with him and liked him. Therefor, he isn't ENFj. My typing method ...
INFj-Ne is what I decided.
Negs seem like an exaggerated theory for covering his polr. I know if I were to write a book on picking up girls; and I wasn't dealing with my duals, but the whole socion, I'd have to write a big chapter on covering my Fe. Basically, it would kind of be like this:
.... don't correct her in this situation.
.... (I don't know, insert more Fe crap here)
Watch some interviews and decide for yourself. It's better then trying to haphazardly pin functions like that
i mean, is peacocking longing for Ni, covering a polr Se, is it trying to secure a circumstance using Fe ? ... All functions have the same goal in mind, but are interpreted differently; and in the name of how we want to see them. The very worst typers on here (Joy, Ashton) take this approach to typing, and it's a failure.
The whole idea of developing a theory for picking up girls seems like an introverted approach to things.

[Angel von Himmel]

Negs seem like an exaggerated theory for covering his polr.

Yes, and in that case it would give evidence to being his hidden agenda.
He smacks girls down with while earning the attention of their friends, then make them earn their way back. That is exactly what made me speculate ENFj.

I know if I were to write a book on picking up girls; and I wasn't dealing with my duals, but the whole socion, I'd have to write a big chapter on covering my Fe. Basically, it would kind of be like this:
.... don't correct her in this situation.
.... (I don't know, insert more Fe crap here)

The problem I have with mystery's method is that it seems that not all guys can do follow-troughs exactly following only his theory. And, I have come to the conclusion that mystery has just simply mastered the art of deception. And that is basically his whole way of picking up.

Also, it seems that the mystery method is not rounded or polished enough, even though it has viable material in it that can work if done right. Until it is more rounded I don't think it will be something just any guy can use.

I personally have had more success with girls by just taking the ones interested in me aside and doing whatever comes natural while they are there smirking and giggling.

[The Greeter]

You are not INFj.


What type do you think you are?

[Angel von Himmel]

You are not INFj.


What type do you think you are?

I think I was originally a Delta type, but have developed other functions that allow me to act as INTp, ENTj, ENFj, INFp, ESTp when I need to.

[crazedrat]

There are different lessons different people need to learn. A really good book would emphasize dynamic conversation vs. static conversation. Socionics could be very useful in something like that.
But ultimately it's better just to go after your duals and let it be simple.
If you reallllly want to get laid, you could read his book as well as other writers in the field; but you'd have to adapt the whole theory to who you are, and your place in the socion.


But anyway, so how do you experience intertype relations now that you're the same type as jesus?
and can you any longer distinguish yourself from your surroundings?

[The Greeter]

I think I was originally a Delta type, but have developed other functions that allow me to act as INTp, ENTj, ENFj, INFp, ESTp when I need to.

You initially thought you were Alpha then thought Delta. I was wondering why it changed?

And from the functions that you say you can "act", they have nothing to do with Alpha or Delta valued functions. Are you good at "acting" those following types or do you feel uncomfortable while "acting"? And comfortable are you at using those functions compared to Alpha/Delta valued functions?

Sorry if it seems I am asking too much.

[Angel von Himmel]

You initially thought you were Alpha then thought Delta. I was wondering why it changed?

And from the functions that you say you can "act", they have nothing to do with Alpha or Delta valued functions. Are you good at "acting" those following types or do you feel uncomfortable while "acting"? And comfortable are you at using those functions compared to Alpha/Delta valued functions?

Sorry if it seems I am asking too much.

Well, I think I actually began learning to develop and use functions that are contrary to my own ego block by observing the actions of people I lived with. I learned the difference between and by having to deal with financially irresponsible ISFp and ESFj roommates who were being bumming idiots, which forced me to take on ENTj and INTp traits to learn to deal with them. Then, I ended up having an ESTp boss with a bunch of INFp co-workers. I realized how the boss was using to try to bullshit the workers constantly and then I compared that to the INFp salesman I was rooming with, who was constantly split between two things and annoyed me to fuck. So, I began learning how to use and from that. And, I am still seeking experiences with different types, so I can learn how they use the functions. I just have to find the types I want to study and live closely with them for a while.

[Angel von Himmel]

But anyway, so how do you experience intertype relations now that you're the same type as jesus?
and can you any longer distinguish yourself from your surroundings?

Yeah ... why?

[ZTCrawcrustle]

Your type is simple. You constantly "change" your type, adapt yourself to others. You are a humanitarian. Furthermore, instead of living on your own terms, you modify yourself to accomodate others, a classic victim trait. Your idea of mastering all eight functions suggests that Se is not your dual-seeking function, leaving me with ENFj. I would also say that you have been EIE for all your life and continue to do so.

Smart EIEs can perfectly theorize; they can easily mistake themselves for LIIs or ILEs. School can basically teach a smart EIE enough Ti (and put enough pressure on him to be Ti) that he will believe himself to be so. Once you realized that you're actually bad with Ti and have been putting up an image of strength, your thoughts were not reset. The belief that you at least valued Ne stayed. Hence, your metamorphosis into a Delta NF. Since the line between Beta and Delta humanitarian beliefs (as far as I know) has never been perfectly clarified, no one could really question this as long as you stayed quiet and pleasant. Once you broke this image (this happened before I started reading this forum) your status as IEE was questioned. From what I've read of your posts, you do not actually change types or functional strength, for that matter.

Personally, I also want to point out that since function strength is in how fast someone can processes inputs into that function and how regularly the function manifests, learning to equally use all eight elements is impossible, as it would require a purposeful re-hardwiring of the brain such that is only possible if constantly maintained since birth.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I think I was originally a Delta type, but have developed other functions that allow me to act as INTp, ENTj, ENFj, INFp, ESTp when I need to.

Then ENTp is the type you wear when you are not acting.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Angel von Himmel]

Personally, I also want to point out that since function strength is in how fast someone can processes inputs into that function and how regularly the function manifests, learning to equally use all eight elements is impossible, as it would require a purposeful re-hardwiring of the brain such that is only possible if constantly maintained since birth.

And how do you not know that someone can not evolve or "ascend" in a way that makes the changes necessary to use all functions as though they were your own ego block?

[Angel von Himmel]

No mcnew, you're wrong. You're not very good at Te or Fe either one, and you totally suck at Fi.

How I could be wrong ... ? I said that I can switch between them. Being good and bad at those functions is something else.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

And how do you not know that someone can not evolve or "ascend" in a way that makes the changes necessary to use all functions as though they were your own ego block?

Some Te/Ti for you. (I haven't made an outline in a while, so now seems like a good time to remember how.)

I) according to the theory of evolution, a single individual cannot evolve
II) the most neural connections a person ever has is when he is first born

A) these neural connections die out very early in life from not being used
B) reestablishing these neural connections is virtually impossible

1) to reestablish them, one would have to purposefully, arduously, constantly use the limited amount of connections to his weak functions that remained

a) this is only theoretical, as some of the connections lost can never be regained

I) if function strength indeed stems from neural pathways in the brain (as it must), the above would imply that you can never bring the level of a weak function to equal the level of your strong functions
II) the only way to be equal in two functions is to somehow undermine or destroy your capabilities in the stronger one

A) the above is surely impossible; it would be like trying to kill yourself by holding your own breath

b) even if one managed to undergo the labrous task of improving his own neural networks, not improving one's own strong functions in the process would be even more difficult

I) This would mean that a core personality type remains.
II) Improvements in all functions would not change the balance of functions that one has, and, at best, may only alter it slightly

2) these lost neural connections by no means reattach only after a few months but would require long, painstaking years

a) what you have so far descibed is not "type change," but more similar to "type mimicking," since it sounds like you are just aping others you have seen and calling it "evolution"
b) every IM element contains a plethora of information and considerations, the pure volume of which never actually appears on the surface

3) the only way I know to speed up and "facilitate" the process of gaining new neural connections is to sever an already existing link

a) unused space will be taken over by nearby nerve cells
b) this commonly causes "phantom pain" and would probably cause severe mental problems if used to toy with function strength

III) Since what you are trying to do in no way operates in the framework of possibility, to me it once again suggests an ENFj who is off the rocker with his Ne-demonstrative

[crazedrat]

Seems Fi dominant to me, and not Fe dominant. He describes these things as experiences and not worldly affairs. As well as Ne creative and Ni demonstrative, the difference being a series of Ne illustrate a framework of Ni, and not the reverse; but either way lacking in Te & Ti. Nice outline, lol

And how do you not know that someone can not evolve or "ascend" in a way that makes the changes necessary to use all functions as though they were your own ego block?

they can within a limited world, through the power of learning.
The difference shows itself when you leave your areas of understanding and walk into a foreign situation.

[Jarno]

I would like to guess your type, but you keep changing it every second you khamelion! '-)

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Some Te/Ti for you. (I haven't made an outline in a while, so now seems like a good time to remember how.)

I) according to the theory of evolution, a single individual cannot evolve
II) the most neural connections a person ever has is when he is first born

A) these neural connections die out very early in life from not being used
B) reestablishing these neural connections is virtually impossible

1) to reestablish them, one would have to purposefully, arduously, constantly use the limited amount of connections to his weak functions that remained

a) this is only theoretical, as some of the connections lost can never be regained

I) if function strength indeed stems from neural pathways in the brain (as it must), the above would imply that you can never bring the level of a weak function to equal the level of your strong functions
II) the only way to be equal in two functions is to somehow undermine or destroy your capabilities in the stronger one

A) the above is surely impossible; it would be like trying to kill yourself by holding your own breath

b) even if one managed to undergo the labrous task of improving his own neural networks, not improving one's own strong functions in the process would be even more difficult

I) This would mean that a core personality type remains.
II) Improvements in all functions would not change the balance of functions that one has, and, at best, may only alter it slightly

2) these lost neural connections by no means reattach only after a few months but would require long, painstaking years

a) what you have so far descibed is not "type change," but more similar to "type mimicking," since it sounds like you are just aping others you have seen and calling it "evolution"
b) every IM element contains a plethora of information and considerations, the pure volume of which never actually appears on the surface

3) the only way I know to speed up and "facilitate" the process of gaining new neural connections is to sever an already existing link

a) unused space will be taken over by nearby nerve cells
b) this commonly causes "phantom pain" and would probably cause severe mental problems if used to toy with function strength

III) Since what you are trying to do in no way operates in the framework of possibility, to me it once again suggests an ENFj who is off the rocker with his Ne-demonstrative

Even if all you say is true, there's nothing to prove it correlates with type.

However, talking about demonstrative Ne like you do, is highly subjective and theoretical. Type change can be observed empirically, if it occurs. Besides, peoples personalities change, in extreme cases of for instance brain injuries. We don't need to get so drastic to at least accept the possibility of type change. Not that it's something i've observed, just that I would keep an open mind about it.

I want McNew to change his type and his sex. For no other reason than simple entertainment.

[Simon Ssmall]

I want McNew to change his type and his sex. For no other reason than simple entertainment.

I strongly support this idea.

[Cheesy]

It's not a guess, you're LII!!!

[consentingadult]

and you totally suck at Fi.

I agree: this lack of Fi clearly shows in his choice of moderators. Some of them are not really people that give the proper example themselves, but McNew seems to be okay with that.

He's alpha NT, most likely an LII, to the extent that his socionic type is important to the overall make-up of his personality.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

Even if all you say is true, there's nothing to prove it correlates with type.

However, talking about demonstrative Ne like you do, is highly subjective and theoretical. Type change can be observed empirically, if it occurs. Besides, peoples personalities change, in extreme cases of for instance brain injuries. We don't need to get so drastic to at least accept the possibility of type change. Not that it's something i've observed, just that I would keep an open mind about it.

Confused about the first part. Where do you think type comes from?

As per the second part, yes type can theoretically change in cases with brain injury. Assuming that mcnew does not have a gang of homeboys beat him to death on a daily basis, I do not see how this would allow him to change type. Furthermore, a lot of the "change" from brain damage can not be controlled and in fact comes not via a synthesizing change, but a deconstructive change. I put it in there: Theoretically, if mcnew was to change his type, it would require a diminishing of one of his functions, rather than a strengthening.

For all that have quoted my outline, please appreciate all the time I had to spend putting in those indents.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Confused about the first part. Where do you think type comes from?

As per the second part, yes type can theoretically change in cases with brain injury. Assuming that mcnew does not have a gang of homeboys beat him to death on a daily basis, I do not see how this would allow him to change type. Furthermore, a lot of the "change" from brain damage can not be controlled and in fact comes not via a synthesizing change, but a deconstructive change. I put it in there: Theoretically, if mcnew was to change his type, it would require a diminishing of one of his functions, rather than a strengthening.

For all that have quoted my outline, please appreciate all the time I had to spend putting in those indents.

I noticed you put a lot of work in.

However, in regards to where type comes from, no one really knows for certain yet. As I understand it sufficient knowledge as to how the types work in a neurological sense, and a lot of how the brain works in terms of personality, is still somewhat of a mystery. We can only speculate at present, we can't therefore prove type change can't effectively occur.

I'm showing an extreme example for personality change. Phileas Gage (is that how you spell it? Can't be bothered googling ) underwent severe personality change despite being fully functional in other areas such as intelligence.

There's nothing to say the mind can't be re-trained to accommodate a new personality or a new type. (Brainwashing, a less evasive procedure, still undesirable.)

Some peoples minds may be flexible enough to adapt new neural pathways involved in type change, others may not.

So to go back to your lengthy effort sapping post. Ultimately you are working from what could be a false premise that type change isn't possible. Like I said I haven't observed it personally, but there are those who have. See Smilingeyes. (So although I haven't seen it, I see it as unlikely, but a possibility. I think it can happen in some individuals but it is harder or closer to impossible for most in normal circumstances.)

[ZTCrawcrustle]

That's not the only meaning -- for example, when Socionics describes Ni in terms of "evolutionary processes".

Again, confused as to what you mean. What I stated was a law of evolution. Mcnew breaking it would mean he is the disproof of evolutionary theory creationists have been looking for.

As Jarno pointed out before, it's unlikely to train oneself to an Einstein-level IQ. Some behavior is very physiologically-limited. But the same isn't as true for say, being literate.

Actually, it is impossible to increase your IQ, as it is supposed to be a standard of reasoning skills. What an IQ of 180 implies is that a 10 y/o with an IQ of 180 reasons on the level of an 18 y/o.

It's possible someone undertakes an analysis and training of behavior deeper than "aping". It does becoming increasingly less likely.

This was in reference to a comment from me that claimed that what mcnew described is not a deep analysis of the functions, but just how they operated on the surface. In his own words:

Well, I think I actually began learning to develop and use functions that are contrary to my own ego block by observing the actions of people I lived with. I learned the difference between and by having to deal with financially irresponsible ISFp and ESFj roommates who were being bumming idiots, which forced me to take on ENTj and INTp traits to learn to deal with them. Then, I ended up having an ESTp boss with a bunch of INFp co-workers. I realized how the boss was using to try to bullshit the workers constantly and then I compared that to the INFp salesman I was rooming with, who was constantly split between two things and annoyed me to fuck. So, I began learning how to use and from that. And, I am still seeking experiences with different types, so I can learn how they use the functions. I just have to find the types I want to study and live closely with them for a while.

I think you may be closing too many of those possibilities with some of your assumptions. But McNew's own framework does seem to suggest that's a plausible typing. I still wouldn't rule out some other NF type though.

I'm actually not assuming much. Mcnew believes/uses Far Eastern religious beliefs, which are much more substantially Beta with how they reflect attaining enlightenment/becoming special through inner soul searching and strict obedience and dedication. Also, they are not as moralistic as western religions, really bypassing Fi. I am ignoring the fact that I know three Beta NFs who were or are interested in Far Eastern religions.

Delta NFs do not value Ni, which is the IM element of esoteric beliefs, so they are much less susceptible to religious mantras of enlightenment followed by educating those "left behind". (Actually, in essense, this is a belief held by many Ti-valuing people.)

I think I was originally a Delta type, but have developed other functions that allow me to act as INTp, ENTj, ENFj, INFp, ESTp when I need to.

Mcnew's claims of the types he has mastered is much more likely of a Beta NF than a Delta NF who comes from the completely opposite direction.


For those that do not believe that mcnew has any Fi, ENFjs can choose to either follow Fi principles or abandon them altogether.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

I noticed you put a lot of work in.

However, in regards to where type comes from, no one really knows for certain yet. As I understand it sufficient knowledge as to how the types work in a neurological sense, and a lot of how the brain works in terms of personality, is still somewhat of a mystery. We can only speculate at present, we can't therefore prove type change can't effectively occur.

I'm showing an extreme example for personality change. Phileas Gage (is that how you spell it? Can't be bothered googling ) underwent severe personality change despite being fully functional in other areas such as intelligence.

There's nothing to say the mind can't be re-trained to accommodate a new personality or a new type. (Brainwashing, a less evasive procedure, still undesirable.)

Some peoples minds may be flexible enough to adapt new neural pathways involved in type change, others may not.

So to go back to your lengthy effort sapping post. Ultimately you are working from what could be a false premise that type change isn't possible. Like I said I haven't observed it personally, but there are those who have. See Smilingeyes. (So although I haven't seen it, I see it as unlikely, but a possibility. I think it can happen in some individuals but it is harder or closer to impossible for most in normal circumstances.)

Yes, Gage is spelled correctly. But Phineas Gage had a railroad spike blow through his brain. He lost the majority of his frontal cortex, responsible for controlling urges. I was going to say that most "type change" occurs from damage to the lower brain functions, but then remembered Gage and how horribly wrong my statement was.

As per brainwashing, that actually deals with the hypothalamus, and does not rewire it but would instead subplant memories and sensations. It does not change type without drastically marring the subject's brain.

[crazedrat]

This guy ZTcraw is a master of sarcasm.
Playing the 'personality is a mystery' card is a cop out; and I don't think it's as much of a mystery as many people like to believe.

[The Greeter]

.

Delta NFs do not value Ni, which is the IM element of esoteric beliefs, so they are much less susceptible to religious mantras of enlightenment followed by educating those "left behind". (Actually, in essense, this is a belief held by many Ti-valuing people.)

This is not true. There is a substantial amount of Delta members that are religious, of course, there may be the same amount who also are not. Essentially, I do not think religious matters are type related.

In addition, I find the Delta quadra to be quite willing to help those "left behind". Perhaps the only barrier for this, as it is the nature of Delta to not impose but support, is that the person must actually desire to move forward. This desire need not be explicitly stated.

[Angel von Himmel]

People who are familiar with the way a computer program runs on a computer know that it is 100% possible to change a running compiled program temporarily through its memory processes and also permanently through its compiled hard code AFTER it has been compiled.

Stated in a way that related to humans ...

People who are familiar with the way a persons psyche functions run know that it is 100% possible to change a persons type temporarily through deception and also more permanently through its DNA code AFTER a person has been born.

So, you can change it temporarily through deception or more permanently through altering DNA. Well, there are people who know how to deceive [change their type temporarily] on this planet and also who know how to alter DNA.

Deception has to do with altering a memory that has no basis in cause-effect[it was not generated through male/female reality relationships]. And you can change your own DNA by altering certain aspects of the physical, astral, and mental planes. This is another discussion all together that actually does have much more to do with socionics than any of you realize.

[Creepy-female]

This message is endorsed by rmcnew (blame him!).

what IS McNew good at?

anyone?????

oh, silly me, i forgot:

-alienating expat and the other mods
-disrespecting most of the forum posters
-building a religion to himself. who cares if it has only 1 worshipper?
-going away on long "vacations" where no one can contact him
-irresponsibility
-completely arbitrary admin decisions. actually, maybe not "completely random." i'm betting he uses his magic 8 ball, ouija board, or the moon's cycle.
-trying to make himself look good
-videos and threads full of jibberish linking ancient chinese symbols to hieroglyphics to socionics! two words: ROSETTA STONE
-consistent "wasn't me" attitude

oh, silly me, i forgot:

-alienating expat and the other mods
-disrespecting most of the forum posters
-building a religion to himself. who cares if it has only 1 worshipper?
-going away on long "vacations" where no one can contact him
-irresponsibility
-completely arbitrary admin decisions. actually, maybe not "completely random." i'm betting he uses his magic 8 ball, ouija board, or the moon's cycle.
-trying to make himself look good
-videos and threads full of jibberish linking ancient chinese symbols to hieroglyphics to socionics! two words: ROSETTA STONE
-consistent "wasn't me" attitude

LOL... beautiful...

oh, silly me, i forgot:

-alienating expat and the other mods
-disrespecting most of the forum posters
-building a religion to himself. who cares if it has only 1 worshipper?
-going away on long "vacations" where no one can contact him
-irresponsibility
-completely arbitrary admin decisions. actually, maybe not "completely random." i'm betting he uses his magic 8 ball, ouija board, or the moon's cycle.
-trying to make himself look good
-videos and threads full of jibberish linking ancient chinese symbols to hieroglyphics to socionics! two words: ROSETTA STONE
-consistent "wasn't me" attitude

lmfao

+1000

thanks!

oh i forgot one

-making a stupid hat look dumber than it already is:


LOLOL...I remember when he came on stickam with that thing on...classic

Not to single you out, but yours is the shortest post on this topic. Ni is directly linked to spirituality. Whereas Si is strictly matters of the body, Ni is matters of the mind/spirit.

The Greeter - while there are religious people in every quadra, the sheer majority of Deltas are deeply atheistic. Even Dostoevsky, himself a believer, was unsure of God's existence and thought that people had a choice and wanted them to ultimately choose that there was a God. To make this choice, he thought people had to let themselves be ridiculous.

Delta combines Ni-devaluing with Te-valuing. While, many ESEs cannot reason out an unforseen occurence, which leads them to becoming religious, LSEs never even assume that some occurence has any meaning behind it, much less a divinely inspired one. While Delta NFs may be slightly more religious, Delta STs are only so to follow along with their community.

I do not know about the religiosity of this forum's Deltas, but neither am I responsible for their typing.

You are an idiot, Crusty.

Thank you for your thoughtful and valuable contribution.

Thank you for your thoughtful and valuable contribution.

It doesn't matter if you have hot air disguised as some kind of logic, it doesn't change the fact that it's hot air.

It doesn't matter if you have hot air disguised as some kind of logic, it doesn't change the fact that it's hot air.

I love your unmasked fire

I love your unmasked fire

unmasked fire?

Man, pomegranates are delicious. But they are so hard to peel. Then you have to get out all the seeds into a bowl. And afterwards, they leave an irritating numbness on the back of my tongue.

Anyway, did you (dolphin) figure out any actual complaints that you have? Or any points of mine you wish to argue against?

[ZTCrawcrustle]

When investors talk about evolutionary (say, as opposed to revolutionary) changes in technological development, they aren't talking about biological species. The word evolution is much older than the biological theory of evolution. It has other uses.

Is Mcnew the Terminator? We are talking about a biological species, as far as I know.

And I only brought it up to juxtapose with literacy -- literacy in contrast with IQ can significantly change independent of biological constraints. So the point was there are measurements of human pontial on boths sides of the nature/nurture divide.

I apologize. Last time I got off on a rant and forgot what I wanted to say. Like I said in the outline, you can improve with the IM elements, but the functional balance will remain the same. You can become literate, but no matter how literate you become, you will never become telepathic.

That's fine, but McNew's "type change" isn't the only possible "type change".

As this thread is about mcnew, I will keep it to mcnew.

I haven't seen enough to confirm mcnew values "strict obedience and dedication" or other Ti dual-seeking yet, more so than some other form of being moral. The following points are more apparent in his case --

I actaully meant those descriptions to apply to the religions and show them to be of a more Beta or Se/Ni strain.

-- but since both Betas and Deltas are Aristocratic, I'm not so sure it rules out IEE as much as ILE.

Re: Aristocracy, both Deltas and Betas do not bloc their intuitions with logic and both are often described as having spiritual insights. The NF's in both cases have those insights more so than the ST's, so there is a degree of said "education" in either case.

I'm again confused as to what aristocracy has to do with this. Wait. Got it.

Deltas do not believe they are above you when they are offering help. Deltas generally try to treat everyone equally, even if this "equally" manifests as "like shit". They can show favoritism, but will be surprised if you accuse them of it. Such beliefs as "some can be taught and others cannot" are not Delta beliefs. Beta beliefs are more along the lines of "those who want to, learn."

SLE is odd, but it's the IEE's Role. And I don't know the extent he still considers himself Delta. If he considers himself to have "mastered" Beta ST more than Delta ST, that could be telling.

SLE is not odd; it would be odd that anyone in Delta would see "acting as someone else" in a good light. SLE may be the oddest on that list for an IEE because it might as well be an alien existence. IEEs abhor competition in exchange for fairness and everybody getting along; SLEs, if they want it bad enough, would abandon all the close ones who do not share their goals in order to become number one.

Again, by mcnew's own words, I would like to mention that he said "act" as other types. The process mcnew describes is one common to many EIEs.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

People who are familiar with the way a persons psyche functions run know that it is 100% possible to change a persons type temporarily through deception and also more permanently through its DNA code AFTER a person has been born.

So, you can change it temporarily through deception or more permanently through altering DNA. Well, there are people who know how to deceive [change their type temporarily] on this planet and also who know how to alter DNA.

Deception has to do with altering a memory that has no basis in cause-effect[it was not generated through male/female reality relationships]. And you can change your own DNA by altering certain aspects of the physical, astral, and mental planes. This is another discussion all together that actually does have much more to do with socionics than any of you realize.

With this, is anyone still doubting EIE? The glorification of deception is something no Delta would ever consider. The deception as applied to character is a past time of EIEs.

Also, your lack of knowledge astounds me. Do you really not know that DNA cannot be altered just by thinking and wishing for it, and also that even if you did alter the DNA in all of your bodies cells, this still would not change your body structure and type and at best may affect something in your children? If you do, you either believe in such a far-fetched concept as modifying things through astral planes or are bullshitting (which I think, deep down inside, you realize you are).

Now, to address real points.

I think any type can be religious. But I don't see why _how types are religious is any less related to Sociotype than other behavior.

Not to single you out, but yours is the shortest post on this topic. Ni is directly linked to spirituality. Whereas Si is strictly matters of the body, Ni is matters of the mind/spirit.

The Greeter - while there are religious people in every quadra, the sheer majority of Deltas are deeply atheistic. Even Dostoevsky, himself a believer, was unsure of God's existence and thought that people had a choice and wanted them to ultimately choose that there was a God. To make this choice, he thought people had to let themselves be ridiculous.

Delta combines Ni-devaluing with Te-valuing. While, many ESEs cannot reason out an unforseen occurence, which leads them to becoming religious, LSEs never even assume that some occurence has any meaning behind it, much less a divinely inspired one. While Delta NFs may be slightly more religious, Delta STs are only so to follow along with their community.

I do not know about the religiosity of this forum's Deltas, but neither am I responsible for their typing.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

For example, a chronic disease's course in an individual might be described as a more evolutionary progression than a acute disease's course. The word has a place in simply describing trends. Evolution's latin root meant something like "to unroll".

To be clear though, I'm not defending McNew's use of the word beyond that point.

Would like to point out that a virus can evolve in a body since each individual viral vector reproduces in the body. Viruses are also not considered living things and are not fully governed by the laws we apply to living things. But I also do not wish to continue this chain.

But some individuals may become more literate than arithmatically-gifted, if they weren't so already, depending upon the course of their studies. That's a change of balance.

You can be equally skilled in reading and math; you cannot be equally skilled in Ti and Fi. It is in the explanation of role function:

When a person is actively using his base function, the role function is essentially turned off. The two cannot both be "on" at the same time, because they represent two opposing approaches to similar things.
Because of this opposition, the more one gets carried away with one's base function, the more the role function is ignored or suppressed. People are generally somewhat aware of this suppression and perceive it as a personal weakness that needs to be "worked on"[...] these attempts are generally sporadic and are forgotten as soon as the perceived problem begins to go away and the person once again becomes carried away with their usual lifestyle which is dominated by their base function.[...] Often individuals wish they could build up their role function and become "supermen", but an excessive focus on this unreachable goal brings disappointment, because the base function always wins anyways.

The last sentence here I think is the most important.

I'm just looking at each piece of the puzzle to determine how McNew applies those religions.

An EIE and IEE are not both necessarily interested in religion. They are both interested in attracting people. The IEE is generally more outgoing in reaching out to others and forming connections, while the EIE is more interested in fantasy and mysticism and is more selective, as he likes to interact with those that share a similar interest. Their interests can be the same, but the way and the reason they approach those interests are widely different.

I don't think what you've quoted there re:teaching is Beta necessarily, because Deltas can at least be _aware of differences in human potential. Whatever knowledge Betas are privy to, some Deltas have it as id functions. It will depend upon how McNew generally treats others given this awareness and I'm less sure of how that treatment is.

First, I feel that is a fair division between Beta and Delta values. The Deltas that do possess strong Ne do not distinguish between people; EIIs' and IEEs' problems stem from not being able to be selective about who they help, even if they want to be. Delta teaching is more "regular" as it is focused on having everybody learn the same thing, regardless of interest or desire.

Second, things like Stratievskaya's description is why I originally identified with IEEs. However, Huxley does not act like other types; it engages others and can use the Fe-sentiments others give off to modify its approach to others. An IEE will not start using different functions and what it does is not really acting, as the IEE is genuinely interested in having others join in. EIEs can be proactive when trying to join a group, but will actually act how others want them to act to do so.

More likely a EII versus SLE conflict. (Hence why Se is the EII's POLR.) It's not unlike how SEE are much more liberal with their ethics than ESI. Fi-creatives are less consistent in their realization of Fi fairness and close relationships. More rigid standards for how everyone best gets along are IJ.

Fi creatives are less strict with how they define their close associates, but they are much more expansive. IEEs are the hosts of Delta, the ones who can easily get to know all the people at the party. They are very careful about not singling out or upsetting anyone. To do so goes against their nature. The reverse is more of an LSI characteristic, but laregly applies to SLEs as well.

One can Ti+Ne their way into religion, as a number of alpha NT philosophers have, in spite of being Si-valuing.

The Fi+Ne analog seems to tend towards having some sort of [Fi] relationship with a higher power.

NT philosophers also have strong Ni, but Alpha NTs are generally more comfortable with a concept of a God that is just a passive watcher and has left fate and choice to humans.

The Fi analog would actually have a more public relationship with the higher power. Consider the Puritans, for example.