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Thread: Liz Phair

  1. #1
    Creepy-bg

    Default Liz Phair



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    i dont feel like searching for anything substantial so that's it

  2. #2
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Gross, Courtney Love subtype.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



  3. #3
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Gross, Courtney Love subtype.
    she really isn't gross. Courney Love is awesome too btw

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Iono, I just get that instant "Gross you are too in my face" vibe.

    ESE?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Last edited by Capitalist Pig; 06-21-2010 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Formatting.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Something dynamic, ENFj seems possible
    Last edited by Galen; 06-21-2010 at 07:14 PM.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    I like her. I find her spirit strangely familiar to mine.

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    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    Ni-ENFj (EIE) if not IEI.






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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    I fucking love Liz Phair.

    edit: PS, this is the 2nd thread you made on her. I also made one recently: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...liz-phair.html

    Maybe a mod can merge 'em or something.

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    Maybe a mod can merge 'em or something.
    done

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    done
    Awesome, thanks, Glam. You're my favorite staff member, BTW, right up there with BG's style skills.

    /brown-nosing

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    haha yw <3

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    So IEI is the only opinion so far?

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    So IEI is the only opinion so far?
    Some ENFj seems like a better bet imo.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Some ENFj seems like a better bet imo.
    oops, that's what I meant

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    oops, that's what I meant
    Ah. Well I can't imagine what else she'd be, so that's the only option as far as I'm concerned.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    She's weirdly hot in a way I totally wouldn't have expected. She's unusual and I like it.
    yup. if VI has anything to it and she's the same type as the girl I knew who looked just like her (who I typed as ENFj years ago) then she's also got a good deal of major manipulative bitchiness to her as well along with it.

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    She's weirdly hot in a way I totally wouldn't have expected. She's unusual and I like it.
    Yeah, this is what attracted me to her music in the first place.

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    Reminds me of a cousin I have. Also, I do like her music even though she can't dance.

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    I agree that she's EIE (like "Lolita"), although my ex-boyfriend thought she V.I.'d IEI.

    http://www.socionics.com/advan/infpcelebs.html

    I think he thought she looked a bit like Patsy Kensit. Nevertheless, I still think she's probably EIE. Regarding subtype, I think she's EIE-Ni, and although she could be the Creative subtype, I'm leaning towards Harmonizing. Here's my current typing of her:

    ENFj --- --- Performer
    using 2 subtypes: Intuitive Performer (Ni-ENFj)
    using 4 subtypes: Harmonizing Performer (H-ENFj)
    using 8 subtypes: Experiential (or Self-Perceptive) Performer (Si-ENFj)
    using 16 subtypes: Joie de Vivre/Hedonistic (or Peaceful) Performer (ENFj-ISFp)


    Here is one picture:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GHMRxwjWvU.../liz-phair.jpg


    Here are some song lyrics:

    - from White Chocolate Space Egg by Liz Phair --

    Orange and blue, green and pink/I see you in everything.../Don't need money, don't need wine/I've got better ways to spend my time//I'll see you around, every hollow has its favorite sound/And my heart is holding on...//Purple yellow, reddish brown/Once I felt you, I couldn't lay you down/Don't be shy, baby, don't be careful with me/Let it go, let it soak me down//Every rock and tree and leaf abound with your face/Your face, your face.../Trace...//Don't tell me I've been wrong.../Don't tell me all the magic's gone//Every corner has its favorite clown/I'll see you...


    Here's (some of) what Robert Christgau had to say:

    http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_a...name=Liz+Phair

    'Exile in Guyville [Matador, 1993]
    She's a rebel, and if all goes well, also a pathfinder, which isn't certain mainly because the acts and attitudes that make her a rebel are so normal. Her number of partners may be over toward the right side of the bell curve. She may have commitment problems. But for at least two decades, bohemian women of a certain age have displayed this much desire, independence, bitchiness, self-doubt, and general weirdness--while continuing to pin down the unmanly emotional apercus that make "Dance of the Seven Veils" and "Divorce Song" so gender-specific. They can behave this way if they want--they're just not supposed to come out of the closet about it. And while Phair knows more than enough about tunes and guitars to challenge the taboo, the weirdness level of her spare, intuitive, insinuating demos-plus is bohemia-specific. Which is apt for sure. But not necessarily pathfinding. A

    Whip-Smart [Matador, 1994]
    "I made sure it wasn't shitty, but didn't worry about whether it was, like, A+"--L. Phair, Billboard, 8/6/94 ("Whip-Smart," "Shane") **'


    'Whitechocolatespaceegg [Matador/Capitol, 1998]
    In which a girl-rock shooting star seeks recognition as nothing more but nothing less than the imaginative, eccentric singer-songwriter she always was. Her perspective remains distinctly female even when she's impersonating men. But her prim, outspoken raunch is down to a few hints, none as memorable as "Go On Ahead"'s resigned analysis of a marriage strained by the birth of a child, or "Girls' Room"'s dream of high school, or "Uncle Alvarez"'s con man hanging from the family tree. This isn't an indie babe's album, or a blowjob queen's either. It's the work of an artist testing her capacity for fictional scenarios, of an upper-middle-class woman well past worrying why she fucks and runs--in public, at least. Its spare, halting, impractical, distinct, blatantly hooked sound honors the home demo over the bar raveup because it was invented by someone who shares an indigenous habitat with record geeks--the kind of bedroom that's longer on stereo equipment than ceiling mirrors. A'


    http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/rock/phair-98.php

    'Confess Nothing
    Although five years have passed since Liz Phair blew in from nowhere, it's still a little embarrassing to remember how bowled over we all were. Not that Exile in Guyville wasn't very nearly as superb as was believed--just that we had no way of understanding what it was, and wasn't. The most acclaimed record by a woman in two decades? Sex-positive feminism with its own rock and roll angle? Crossover indie-DIY by a scenester with a rep? All that. But rather than presaging a damn thing for women-in-rock or pleasure principles or alternative nation, Guyville was at once permanently sui generis and rather trad. And even if Phair had been as visionary as we hoped but never quite parsed out, her essence-of-cool wouldn't have come near to diverting the historical trajectory that soon remarginalized alternative beyond Tinùviel's fondest dreams as it made art stars of such varied babes as Polly Jean Harvey, Courtney Love, Sleater-Kinney, Missy Elliott, and the eternal Sarah McLachlan.

    A year later, impressively fast and also too fast, came Whip-Smart. By all reports more girlcentric and less sexplicit, it nevertheless starts off like a concept album about one-night stands (five tracks, three partners minimum) and devotes itself throughout to sleeping with guys and all it entails, beginning with pleasure and going on to love, pain, and--most remarkably--a sisterly concern for the fellas. That last would be "Shane," where for almost two minutes an outro/refrain warns her sleeping young bed partner "You've gotta have fear in your heart" in deadpan repetitions that provide all the music anyone will ever remember from that track. Audacious as it is, this trick typifies an album on which the mesh of sense and sound is only intermittently within Phair's grasp--an album studded with intelligent songs that don't quite come together.'

    'After two-and-a-half albums in two-and-a-half years, Liz Phair took her Pazz & Jop triumph, her cover of Rolling Stone, and her all too cult-sized following into two-and-a-half years of semiretirement--marrying her video-director boyfriend, bearing a child, and gestating the next album so slowly there were suspicions it would never see daylight. But it did, and while some who overrated Whip-Smart because they hoped it was Guyville will now underrate Whitechocolatespaceegg because they're afraid it's Whip-Smart, I say it's the light at the end of Phair's tunnel. Guyville was sui generis because it was a concept album about Phair's sexual dilemma, which like all accurately rendered sex lives was specific to her. Whitechocolatepaceegg isn't so irreducibly "personal." Her own child may the be title song's "baby"--"Purple, yellow, reddish brown/Once I felt you, I couldn't lay you down/Don't be shy, baby, don't be careful with me/Let it go, let it soak me down"--and may not. That's what's so great about it.

    To assume Phair's sex lyrics were strictly autobiographical was always to forget how songwriters of her calibre work--projecting, fictionalizing, stealing other people's stories, making stuff up out of whole cloth. This truism comes much clearer on Whitechocolatespaceegg. Two of the most striking tales on the album posit female voices that can't be Phair's (can they?): one a teenager accruing identity in the girls room, the other an experienced wayfarer reassuring her mom that her new man is the right man, ex-wife and all. Both are sisterly in the feminist sense--tender, honest, fed up with the men they can't live without. Three other tracks are sung in the first person by protagonists we're certain are male, including one who serves up the sexiest song on the album in tribute to the gal who blows his horn. And though most of us can happily live without these guys, Phair's tone is friendly, curious, bemused. How could we never have noticed how detached she is? Above all, it's this detachment that makes it seem possible that the self-inflated Uncle Alvarez isn't her relative, that Henry the bartender is a composite or even a figment.

    And although it's just as likely that both are drawn from life, as we can't help but assume of the naked report from a marriage in trouble in the impossible year after childbirth, the upshot is that Phair has escaped the confessional expectations of her calling. She still writes as knowledgeably about sex as anybody, Courtney and Polly Jean and even Madonna included . . .'

    'There's enough impolite sex in these songs--lovers who turn you on by knocking you down enjoy low public-approval ratings these days--and some scenester remnants too. But from the mother-knot mists of "White Chocolate Space Egg" to the mordant family gossip of "Uncle Alvarez" to the hard-nosed fuck-you of "Shitloads of Money," . . .'

    'The new record [Whitechocolatespaceegg] isn't as acutely realized as Guyville, but forgive it a few vacancies and it will generate the same aura of inevitability over time. Wood's productions are stronger on the whole primarily because Phair gave him the surefire songs (bet he would have flubbed the mystic title tune, which will grow on you), and without undermining the conception, the overall sound has filled out. But given a vocal affect that rarely gets nearer to warmth than intellectual sympathy and is never, ever bubbly, the resemblance to pop is strictly formal. The shitload of money Phair scored when she signed her post-Guyville deal are all the shitloads she's liable to see for a while; the musical attractions here signify artistic advance only, with all commercial projections speculative.

    Figure she's a classy enough broad to settle. In a year when women-in-rock from Madonna to Courtney to Lucinda to Polly Jean will all stake claims, she's laid out her own turf. She's cool in the existential rather than scenester sense--as anticonfessional as Randy Newman himself. Yet as she grabs her songs from life and nowhere, she's credibly concerned as well. She's determined to remain a smart woman in a man's world.

    Village Voice, Aug. 18, 1998'

    http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/music/phair-03.php

    'Shining Some Glory
    Many are scandalized that Liz Phair "turned to" (the correct verb, as in "a life of crime") Avril Lavigne producers the Matrix for her first album in five years. As someone who likes the idea of Avril Lavigne but finds her music too slow and mushy for faux punk, I was worried, not scandalized--and more worried to learn that Phair had also turned to Pete Yorn's producer and Aimee Mann's husband, who've yet to give the world a "Sk8er Boi" between them. But I wasn't scandalized then either. Artists will sleep with anybody they think is good for a ride. With Liz Phair, that goes double.'

    'Unfortunately, my promo didn't indicate who oversaw what. So just for fun I guessed . . .:

    "Extraordinary": lead track IDing Phair as "average everyday sane psycho supergoddess." Unrequited love lyric with nice audience overtones ("Stand in the street, yell out my heart/To make to make you love me"), also "So I still take the trash out/Does that make me too normal for you?"), big mushy catchy pseudoheavy verse, chorus catchier than that. Definitely Matrix.'

    '"Little Digger": Liz's kid finds her in bed with guy not his dad. Classic Phair--spare instrumentation, wavery pitch, strange melody precluding the Trisha Yearwood cover the lyric deserves. Zero Clear Channel potential. Note awkwardly repetitive (hence emphatic) directness of must-quote verse: "I've done the damage/The damage is done/I pray to God/ That I'm the damaged one." What Mann (also womann) oughta be. Penn.'

    'Scandalized? How dumb. I can't explain the technical stuff, but I'd describe the Matrix's sound with Lavigne as "generalized." No matter who produced what (which since I did get all five right must mean something), that's how this album comes across--keybs everywhere, voice big and in tune. Only with Phair, this generalization--while definitely ambitious, tsk tsk--is also an act of love (toward Christina fans and such) and a reaffirmation of the sexual appetites she's indulged since she was exiled in Guyville, a sobriquet she devised to insult the indie world oh so long ago. Five years later, she put in quality time as a matron-artiste; now, single again at 36, she further insults the indie world by successfully fusing the personal and the universal, challenging lowest-common-denominator values even as it fellates them. You want her to express herself? She just did.

    Village Voice, July 8, 2003'


    Here are the songs:


































































  21. #21
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    She does seem Beta NF--without reading the replies, I wavered between IEI and EIE. My initial visual impression was EIE. My second thought was about her songwriting style. The album Exile in Guyville is supposedly a song-by-song response to the Stones' Exile on Main Street, and to me the very nature of the project just seems somehow EJ > IP--maybe because it's built on an clear structure with an external point of reference.

    Her lyrics are direct and not terribly introspective; below she uses a character to paint a relationship scenario in pretty everyday, unvarnished terms. It all seems EIE>IEI to me, but that said, in some interviews, she comes across as softer than I would have expected.

    ... That it's harder to be friends than lovers
    And you shouldn't try to mix the two
    'Cause if you do it and you're still unhappy
    Then you know that the problem is you

    And it's true that I stole your lighter
    And it's also true that I lost the map
    But when you said that I wasn't worth talking to
    I had to take your word on that

    ... But you've never been a waste of my time
    It's never been a drag
    So take a deep breath and count back from ten
    And maybe you'll be alright

    And the license said you had to stick around until I was dead
    But if you're tired of looking at my face, I guess I already am

    But you've never been a waste of my time
    It's never been a drag
    So take a deep breath and count back from ten
    And maybe you'll be alright

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