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Thread: Ni-PoLR -- How does it manifest in ESFjs and ESTjs?

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    Default Ni-PoLR -- How does it manifest in ESFjs and ESTjs?

    How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?
    Me! I <3 ESEs!
    Why is this a thread?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?
    Not even sure what that would mean.

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    Could mean different things. In this case, for the most part it probably means that a Ni PoLR makes sense for them... not just that they're presumably ESxj and therefore must have a Ni PoLR.
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    I grew up with one.
    Basically, it means this:
    Edit:
    I will procrastinate dealing with complex problems until the world falls down around me
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    Which of the eight aspects of reality are you referring to?
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    (but in any case, healthy people don't do that, regardless of their type)
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    yeah, says santa clause and the easter bunny
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?
    Si-ESFj 2w3 so/sp mom -- shocker, I know. And a bunch of machismo douche bag husbands in my neighborhood are ESTjs. The way this magnificent phenomenon seems to operate is, essentially, lacking a propensity for implicit, abstract connections between things. From an Ni base perspective, these people seem pedantic and unable to process anything that isn't spelled out neatly for them. They would probably see me as someone who is overly-vague and lacking clarity in thought/communication. I've never witnessed any time management crap being related to Ni polr, and I hope this thread doesn't get bombarded with such things. ESxj's just seem really, really concrete and unable to traverse outside of the current, externally-defined context/dynamic that they are operating in.
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    Basically what Strrrng said. Almost like they think critical thinking is rude, or it isn't cool.
    When you say something to them which isn't having to do with the immediate world, they get this deer in the headlights look and go into a mode where they try to pretend they know what you're talking about.

    what happens in an argument, is you repeat yourself until you end up saying one sentence over and over again. then after much resistance they agree with you, and then a few hours later go on and do the opposite.

    It's also worth noting they have almost no ability to learn from their mistakes, or recognize the causes of their mistakes.
    Last edited by crazedrat; 11-30-2008 at 08:01 AM.
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    this is hilarious, because this is exactly how i feel toward Ne-PoLR types.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat
    Basically what Strrrng said. Almost like they think critical thinking is rude, or it isn't cool.
    When you say something to them which isn't having to do with the immediate world, they get this deer in the headlights look and go into a mode where they try to pretend they know what you're talking about.

    what happens in an argument, is you repeat yourself until you end up saying one sentence over and over again. then after much resistance they agree with you, and then a few hours later go on and do the opposite.

    It's also worth noting they have almost no ability to learn from their mistakes, or recognize the causes of their mistakes.
    lol +20

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    this is hilarious, because this is exactly how i feel toward Ne-PoLR types.
    Ne polr types seem to make the implicit connections fine to me; it's just that they seem unable to sort of permutate anything externally. They will frequently take an overly-definitive attitude towards a given idea, which may have validity up to a certain point, but inevitably will cause them to miss some other angles. But theirs is different than the ESxj's -- the former being inept at seeing the external connections/interpolations, the latter being inept at synthesizing things internally. A matter of being unwilling to break anything down vs. sucking at centralizing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Ne polr types seem to make the implicit connections fine to me; it's just that they seem unable to sort of permutate anything externally. They will frequently take an overly-definitive attitude towards a given idea, which may have validity up to a certain point, but inevitably will cause them to miss some other angles. But theirs is different than the ESxj's -- the former being inept at seeing the external connections/interpolations, the latter being inept at synthesizing things internally. A matter of being unwilling to break anything down vs. sucking at centralizing.
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Must be my Te polr.
    That's very good.

    Now, if you can just stop getting giddy with your lols and realize when you're taking emotionally charged biases against people based on your likes and dislikes, you could get even better; that's what's annoying, at times (to me). But I like what you wrote there - you seem to have more understanding now than before, and it's nice to see the growth and better ability to explain things well.

    PS: I think I am starting to understand (that type of behavioral) better, though, in terms of your loling and emotionality stuff. It seems to be a matter of realizing when you're just "roasting things" for sake of "generating energy", versus when you're actually just trying to explain something fully. When you mix the two together, both seem less weighty. But that is perhaps related to my own lack of understanding about such things.

    (I wrote this post in reference to "strrrng", but there's a lot of carry over to other people I know who are like him and have similar motivations and tendencies)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    That's very good.
    Thanks.

    Now, if you can just stop getting giddy with your lols and realize when you're taking emotionally charged biases against people based on your likes and dislikes, you could get even better; that's what's annoying, at times (to me). But I like what you wrote there - you seem to have more understanding now than before, and it's nice to see the growth and better ability to explain things well.
    lol, point taken. I appreciate it.

    PS: I think I am starting to understand (that type of behavioral) better, though, in terms of your loling and emotionality stuff. It seems to be a matter of realizing when you're just "roasting things" for sake of "generating energy", versus when you're actually just trying to explain something fully. When you mix the two together, both seem less weighty. But that is perhaps related to my own lack of understanding about such things.
    Yeah, it's sort of frequently co-mingled with the explanation part, so a lot can be lost, like you said. I might just see a weakness in the person, something I dislike, flaw in the argument, and decide to, instead of calmly countering it, 'burn' it, so to speak (the roasting image was lucid and hilarious).
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    Basically what Strrrng said. Almost like they think critical thinking is rude, or it isn't cool.
    When you say something to them which isn't having to do with the immediate world, they get this deer in the headlights look and go into a mode where they try to pretend they know what you're talking about.

    what happens in an argument, is you repeat yourself until you end up saying one sentence over and over again. then after much resistance they agree with you, and then a few hours later go on and do the opposite.

    It's also worth noting they have almost no ability to learn from their mistakes, or recognize the causes of their mistakes.
    wow, exactly.

    What happens with me and my mom's ESFj spouse is well get into these huge heated arguments about something entirely stupid. No matter how hard I attempt to explain things to him he will literally refuse to listen! To make matters worse he starts raising his voice to a horribly loud wailing and talks over every word I say so he makes it entirely impossible to hear what I'm trying to get through to him. This in turn just leads me to believe that the man is a huge idiot, when I have no clue if this is actually true or not. Engaging in arguments with him is probably one of the most most annoying things that I can possibly get myself into, but I cannot help it sometimes... he just jumps to these retarded conclusions and says these idiotic things that grate horribly at my nerves. It's almost as if he fails to know how to make simple connections.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I've never witnessed any time management crap being related to Ni polr, and I hope this thread doesn't get bombarded with such things.
    Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but there are much worse things than that".
    My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.

    Si is "now and here", Ni is "everywhere except now". So if you're ESxj (especially Si-subtype) you're in deep trouble if someone constantly applies "everywhere except now" -Ni on you.
    As you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    ESxj's just seem really, really concrete and unable to traverse outside of the current, externally-defined context/dynamic that they are operating in.
    Last edited by Trevor; 11-30-2008 at 05:30 PM.

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    That's true, I have seen Ni polr manifest itself as time retardation. But strrrngs sentiments are more to do with not having people think of it only in those terms, which is likely to happen given peoples bookworm understanding of socionics and seeming lack of real world experience.
    For example, there was this day I had 30 minutes until work, so my ride (ESFj-Fe mother) decided to run to the mall 'real quick'. She got caught in traffic both on the way there, and in the parking garage; and then she didn't consider the 5 minute walk INTO the mall, then back. It took her an hour, and I ended up 30 minutes late for work. She is also terrible at estimating traveling times. Like we'll always arrive at the airport hours early, then sit around for 2-3 hours. If we need to drive to the store real fast, it'll 'just take 5 minutes' .. where there's no way it'll take less then 20. etc.
    My ESTj-Te bro quit his new job because he was 10 minutes late. So he decided not to go in at all.
    etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but they are much worst things than that".
    My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.

    Si is "now and here", Ni is "everywhere except now". So if you're ESxj (especially Si-subtype) you're in deep trouble if someone constantly applies "everywhere except now" -Ni on you.
    As you said:
    That's the opposite of what I've seen. Si-PoLRs are often late, and people with strong Ni are ultra punctual. An example - my ESFj and ISFp inlaws were visiting at my house, and they were supposed to go hang out with my ENTj and ENFj parents. I told them how hyper-punctual my parents were and had to work hard to get them out of the house, because they are usually late to things. I got them out at least close to on time, but TWO MINUTES after they were supposed to be there, my parents called asking why they were late.

    Also, my ISTp husband, not Ni PoLR but weak and unvalued Ni anyway, is always late. He will tell me he'll be back at 1 and I just translate it in my head to 1:30 to 1:40 or so. And it's worse if he's out with his ESTj friend. They just don't pay attention at all to the time. If they say they'll be back at 1, I might end up calling at 4 to see where they are.
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    Yeah, you're right. They are often late on accident; or because they really don't give shit; they don't recognize the obligation. But I also think they're the folks who become annoyed BY lateness, where a Ni dominant type will adapt to the new schedule with no effort; and this may be because the lateness itself brings up the topic of Ni.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but they are much worst things than that".
    My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.

    Si is "now and here", Ni is "everywhere except now". So if you're ESxj (especially Si-subtype) you're in deep trouble if someone constantly applies "everywhere except now" -Ni on you.
    As you said:
    I know an ESE who kicked an IEI out of his band because he could not tolerate him being late for practice. After the ESE constantly complained about the issue the IEI would get annoyed and retaliate by intentionally making sure he was very late just to piss the ESE off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Si-PoLRs are often late, and people with strong Ni are ultra punctual.
    I guess that was a typo. You meant Ni-PoLRs.

    I've never said that Ni-PoLRs are punctual. But they really appreciate when others are. They all have "if I don't undertake this/that/everything now, then world is going to fall apart"-attitude. So existance of schedules saves them from burnout. Otherwise they would be even more lost-in-the-fog.

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    Hmm. Well, my ESE husband and I are almost never late to anything. He hates being late, mostly because he wants to be efficient with his time (efficiency is very important to him) and for me it's just a matter of knowing how long things are going to take and building in the extra time for unforeseen circumstances. Especially with kids, this is important. When I point it out that we ought to build in extra time for this or that, he agrees with me and seems grateful that I pointed it out. And yes, he's usually annoyed with other people being late or if we're late due to circumstances beyond our control (i.e. traffic). In that situation I have to calm him down and assure him that it's not a big deal. He lets me take the lead with this stuff and seems to appreciate it. He sometimes calls me a pessimist but I just tell him I'm a realist.

    He does have an occasional problem with not eating and letting his blood sugar get too low. He will sometimes (usually at work or at home if he's in the middle of a project) put off eating until he's extremely crabby. Even if I come to him and say "you really should come eat something", he won't. I have to literally bring the food to him. Then afterwards he'll be like yeah, I was hungry, you were right, whoa is it already 1:00? it's like he just doesn't realize how long the project's going to take and isn't paying attention to anything internal since he's so externally focused. I don't know if that's Ni PoLR, just throwing it out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but there are much worse things than that".
    My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.
    Actually, I hate when things are late too (I also hate to be late myself, so I am always super punctual - but I also know ENTjs that don't have this fixation, so I can't chalk it up to type). One of the things I can tolerate less in others is consistent lateness. I can't really live for them (if somebody is late 3 hours to a meeting, I don't go doing something else - I keep on waiting them, so it's 3 hours of my life completely wasted).
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    He does have an occasional problem with not eating and letting his blood sugar get too low. He will sometimes (usually at work or at home if he's in the middle of a project) put off eating until he's extremely crabby. Even if I come to him and say "you really should come eat something", he won't. I have to literally bring the food to him. Then afterwards he'll be like yeah, I was hungry, you were right, whoa is it already 1:00? it's like he just doesn't realize how long the project's going to take and isn't paying attention to anything internal since he's so externally focused. I don't know if that's Ni PoLR, just throwing it out there.
    One ESTj and four ESFjs I know are doing that regularly. Is that positively correlated with Ni PoLR? I don't know.
    Last edited by Trevor; 11-30-2008 at 05:53 PM.

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    Lol, so you say 'by not voting I essentially voted for both candidates', then you argue that into the ground.
    You have to admit, it can be fun baiting Ni polr.
    It seems unusual for an ESFj to destroy the mood of things over something like that; but then again, I really can't imagine an ESTj caring so much about voting.

    Admittedly, my mother always has this urgency bordering on panic tone in her voice when discussing possible outcomes of the most trivial things.
    Some of this is also Ne HA function.

    Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.
    Last edited by crazedrat; 11-30-2008 at 06:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I hate getting into politics with him because of this. Yeah, I really do not think they can't see through lies or bullshit and they wont listen to anthers views once they have theirs set in stone... Yes, eventually they could admit they could eventually make a connection and see that they are wrong, but it takes forever for them to come to this conclusion.
    This is totally not true for my ESE. That would drive me bonkers. My husband is really good at listening to other points of view. I even changed his mind on the death penalty stance. That was years ago. But anyway, he's good at admitting when he's wrong, and not just about political ideas. He says he's sorry more than I do (for things like not being as patient as he should be with the kids or for emotionally over-reacting to things).
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    In defence of those who have a Ni-PoLR, I once had my wallet stolen by an INFp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    This is totally not true for my ESE. That would drive me bonkers. My husband is really good at listening to other points of view. I even changed his mind on the death penalty stance. That was years ago. But anyway, he's good at admitting when he's wrong, and not just about political ideas. He says he's sorry more than I do (for things like not being as patient as he should be with the kids or for emotionally over-reacting to things).
    Yes, eventually they could admit they could eventually make a connection and see that they are wrong, but it takes forever for them to come to this conclusion.
    After we get into arguments he makes a strong point of apologizing, will admit he was wrong, and even buys me stuff...

    It just takes him a while, he has to sit on it and think about it; he cannot do this in the heat of an argument or make himself appear the least bit civil. I guess all people are different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    In defence of those who have a Ni-PoLR, I once had my wallet stolen by an INFp.
    I had my CD's stolen and my computer broken by an IEI; they can be horrible people.

    :edit:

    I do not hate people who have a Ni-PoLR, and admittedly I've just met some bad eggs. I have respected many ESFj's and they amaze me sometimes. I realized I probably sounded crude; though there was truth in what I said and it has caused me much frustration in the past. Nobody is perfect and understand this; I have enough problems and insecurities with my own PoLR.
    Last edited by fox; 11-30-2008 at 07:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    After we get into arguments he makes a strong point of apologizing, will admit he was wrong, and even buys me stuff...

    It just takes him a while, he has to sit on it and think about it; he cannot do this in the heat of an argument or make himself appear the least bit civil. I guess all people are different.
    this depends on how emotionally invested he is in the topic at hand. And when converting his views on things, it's not an immediate thing. It definitely takes awhile for him to come to a new conclusion. I didn't mean to imply that he would immediately agree with me. The change of his opinion on the death penalty was over the course of months, maybe a year.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Usually Ti & Fe will mean the ESFj does listen to what you have to say, but due to their polr they just don't get it; and they seem to be primarily interested in preserving the stability of the situation at all times, to the point where this cripples their ability to face things.

    ESTj, on the other hand, is more like a volcanic dumbass, and the ESTj in my life I'm thinking of reminds me of the guy you describe; I can even see the Steve Irwin analogy; I put it up to a repressed longing for Ne & Fi. It's like he's putting on a show to win peoples emotions.
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post

    Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.
    While there's quite a few things that make me cringe a bit when reading this thread, I can't deny many of them are true. I will however single this one out as considerably wrong, at least to me. While it may seem like you're able to lie to an ESFJ, I'd bet that much of the time... in the back of their mind, all they're thinking is: "Ugh, this guy is so full of shit."
    I would say I'm pretty hard for a person to lie to, in real life of course... Whether we bring it up that we think you're full of shit is another story, much of the time I just let things roll off as if whatever lie I was just told really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Unless I feel like being a prick, then I'll call their lie and see a funny looking followed by a .

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    Basically what Strrrng said. Almost like they think critical thinking is rude, or it isn't cool.
    When you say something to them which isn't having to do with the immediate world, they get this deer in the headlights look and go into a mode where they try to pretend they know what you're talking about.

    what happens in an argument, is you repeat yourself until you end up saying one sentence over and over again. then after much resistance they agree with you, and then a few hours later go on and do the opposite.

    It's also worth noting they have almost no ability to learn from their mistakes, or recognize the causes of their mistakes.
    I've actually noticed this with both N-PoLR types when confronted with their PoLR function. With ESFjs, they focus on trying to preserve the Fe dynamic and the harmony that's there so they may phobicly comply with whatever the supervisor is saying or try to divert attention away from it. With ESTjs, particularly Te ESTjs, if you throw a lot of Ni at them they react like this rat trying to run through this maze, bumping into walls, turning around, running in circles, because it seems that without their Si groundwork, their Te will just be like one of those wind up cars that you wind up and it just runs aimlessly - hitting and bouncing off whatever it will. A car without a driver. Heh that's probably why they're afraid of it. Throwing a lot of Ni at a ESTj is like telling them to drive but without the road. And lol I don't know why I've been more amused at ESTjs handling Ni than I have ESFjs handling it.

    With Ne PoLR:

    I notice a similar phobic response to Ne particularly with Ti ISTjs. You try to show them the different external manifestations in the world or the "shortcuts" to take to accomplish a certain external goal and they give the deer in the headlights look too. They'd rather stick to the way that they know gets them where they need to get. I may explain to them how the shortcut I came up with makes things easier or how it accomplishes the same essential purpose as their more drawn out method. They'll listen, seemingly understand the logic of it, but then continue to do things in their same way as if I hadn't said anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat
    That's true, I have seen Ni polr manifest itself as time retardation. But strrrngs sentiments are more to do with not having people think of it only in those terms, which is likely to happen given peoples bookworm understanding of socionics and seeming lack of real world experience.
    I will admit that my Si-ESFj mom is a retard when it comes to estimating timing. Usually it has to do with how long it will take her to arrive at a place via car. When I conceptualize it, I take into account the general effects of traffic, and sort of get a rough visual of the path. She seems to just randomly choose a number and stick by it, to linearize the process or something.

    Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.
    I actually agree, lol. It seems that if you cloak whatever you're saying in good enough literal terms, that they won't be able to peer underneath to what's really going on. While the Fe of ESFj's may be adept at reading peoples' emotions, it's bound to the external context of Si, making it very ostensibly based. And ESTjs...lol don't even go there.

    Usually Ti & Fe will mean the ESFj does listen to what you have to say, but due to their polr they just don't get it; and they seem to be primarily interested in preserving the stability of the situation at all times, to the point where this cripples their ability to face things.
    I think this is right. They will listen to you so much as the FeSi harmony isn't perturbed. And sometimes they'll get in this faggoty mode where they actually think they're integrating what you're saying into that dynamic -- more so the Si normative function -- when in reality you're just trying to get the point through their head. And then they'll pretend to get it, and offer some facile Ne correlation, and get all happy that people are getting along. They just do not want the Si continuum upset by Se "splashes" (picture a placid pond), nor do they want anything "out of nowhere" being introduced.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    True, strrrng.
    And these types are also terrible at getting away with lies. My ESTj-Te brother in law has gotten caught 4 or 5 times cheating on my ENFj sister. But what makes this of interest, is all times he's gotten caught because he didn't delete text messages off his cellphone. He never learns his lesson. Basically she notices he has his phone on vibrate, and next time it rings she acts like she'll get the phone for him to be helpful. He spazzes out with some transparent on the fly cover for why she doesn't need to get the phone for him. Later she looks at his emails. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again soon
    Last edited by crazedrat; 12-01-2008 at 01:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with the posts describing ESEs as listening without comprehending, and thinking everyone is happy and getting along. Except when you tread on their traditions. Oh boy. Then they get mad. Say something against their cherished traditions, or refuse to take part in them and they act like you punched them in the face.
    Oh dear lord, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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    Please try to keep the discussion to talking about Ni PoLR and not try to use that thread as an excuse to talk about all the reasons you may have for not liking certain things about ESxJ's. I don't really see where shitty cheesecake or not liking someone's cherished traditions really have anything to do with people's Ni PoLR's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Please try to keep the discussion to talking about Ni PoLR and not try to use that thread as an excuse to talk about all the reasons you may have for not liking certain things about ESxJ's. I don't really see where shitty cheesecake or not liking someone's cherished traditions really have anything to do with people's Ni PoLR's.
    The thing about traditions is actually a common trait, and has to do with the normative Si function.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    The thing about traditions is actually a common trait, and has to do with the normative Si function.
    ISFps are very into tradition also, yes. But it's not due to Ni-PoLR.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Well, cheesecake has nothing to do with anything. But, I like to give a little background information. That she was a cop and took lots of pictures didn't have to do with anything either. I like the people I talk about to seem like people and not just some letter code on feet walking around.
    hee hee funny image.

    My ESE hates mushrooms and he loves to jump on the trampoline with the kids.
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