Illusionary/mirage vs activity relations

[ann2430]

Which relationship do you think is better for a living situation such as roommates - illusionary or activity relations? I know that activity relations aren't really ideal for living situations but I'm not sure if illusionary relations are necessarily better since they are different quadras. More specifically, I have two potential roommates. One is ESFj and one is ISTp (i am INFj). I'm not sure which one would be better in the long run, although I am leaning towards ESFj. I would really appreciate any thoughts or advice!

[redbaron]

ESFj because they will clean! Seriously. However, they also talk a lot so be prepared for that.

[Ritella]

illusion. they are very therapeutic.
activity actually has the opposite effect. you will both just start OCDing over your insecurities, which IME with Delta Introverts is always about your appearance, incredibly low self-esteem, inability to be in a long term relationship, and general social anxiety.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Illusion. I would assume you'd want your room to be a shelter from the world you gotta conquer when you're out, and would want to keep the level of 'feeling like you gotta do something' down.

[The Greeter]

If you want codependency, ESFj.

If you want complete autonomy, ISTp.


If you were friends with the ISTp, there can be some codependence but it would be minimal.

[Jarno]

activity actually has the opposite effect. you will both just start OCDing over your insecurities,

interesting. Where did you read that? Or is it your own experience?

[Ritella]

interesting. Where did you read that? Or is it your own experience?

that is my own experience. i had an SLI roomate once; we were also good friends. we have to sort of limit our "negative" talk.

[Wynch]

My activity roomie and I get along really really well. We have fun when we're together, but we can also do our own thing. Then again he's an ESFj 2, who can't live with a guy like that?

[ann2430]

illusion. they are very therapeutic.
activity actually has the opposite effect. you will both just start OCDing over your insecurities, which IME with Delta Introverts is always about your appearance, incredibly low self-esteem, inability to be in a long term relationship, and general social anxiety.

Interesting, where did you hear that relations of illusion are very therapeutic? I'm not really sure about the second part of OCDing over your insecurities with relations of activity. Last year i had an ISTp roommate and we were (and still are) good friends. I don't think our friendship made us obsess more about our own insecurities, although we both certainly had them. I just felt that even though she was a good friend and we had fun together, it wasn't really the best relationship for living situations because of communication problems and the constant overstimulation. It was like every night was a sleepover, which was fun but gets tiring after awhile.

[ann2430]

ESFj because they will clean! Seriously. However, they also talk a lot so be prepared for that.

Haha, yeah well I don't really have a problem with their talkativeness. I appreciate people who like to talk because it means I don't have to struggle so much to make conversation. The cleaning thing is definitely a bonus too, although i'm not sure all ESFj's are necessarily good at cleaning.

[crazedrat]

It would depend on which individual I liked more. Although I'd lean toward activity because it would end up with me getting out of the house more; and with illusion I suspect it might have the opposite effect.

[ann2430]

If you want codependency, ESFj.

If you want complete autonomy, ISTp.


If you were friends with the ISTp, there can be some codependence but it would be minimal.

What exactly do you mean by codependency? I think it would be hard for an INFj to live with an ISTp and not be friends at all. I know that in my experience with ISTps, there is always some level of codependence because it often keeps me from making other friendships. I would rather hang out with the ISTp instead of going out and meeting new people, which the ESFj would probably help with because they are so outgoing and love new people.

[The Greeter]

What exactly do you mean by codependency? I think it would be hard for an INFj to live with an ISTp and not be friends at all. I know that in my experience with ISTps, there is always some level of codependence because it often keeps me from making other friendships. I would rather hang out with the ISTp instead of going out and meeting new people, which the ESFj would probably help with because they are so outgoing and love new people.

Codependency, as in, sharing responsibilities with house work, cooking, et cetera as opposed to 'every man for himself' kind of idea. I was going to mention that if you and the ISTp develop some kind of relationship then things would be a little different. I agree, also, with the miscommunication and the overstimulation that occurs but overall I also enjoy the relationship.

I would personally pick the ESFj because they are fun, but quite relaxing. Maybe some miscommunication (Fe vs. Fi) but overstimulation rarely occurs.

Of course, strictly assuming that neither the ESFj nor the ISTp are my friends (I cannot help but feel as if I am choosing one friend over the other).

[Ritella]

Interesting, where did you hear that relations of illusion are very therapeutic? I'm not really sure about the second part of OCDing over your insecurities with relations of activity. Last year i had an ISTp roommate and we were (and still are) good friends. I don't think our friendship made us obsess more about our own insecurities, although we both certainly had them. I just felt that even though she was a good friend and we had fun together, it wasn't really the best relationship for living situations because of communication problems and the constant overstimulation. It was like every night was a sleepover, which was fun but gets tiring after awhile.

That is based off of my own experience, but I think Rick also wrote something to that effect.
The thing is that your illusion partner shares all the even functions (the ones you particularly suck at and need to feel healthy) with your dual. so...
And maybe you were lucky with your activity partner. For example, I think that if Jessica129 and I ever became friends irl we'd have that same insecurities problem.

[FDG]

I'd totally go for activity over illusion. Some (not all) of my illusionaries drive me crazy with competitvness.

[Wynch]

My illusionary tends to make me more insecure than my activity. Note: I live with my illusionary and my activity.

[ann2430]

That is based off of my own experience, but I think Rick also wrote something to that effect.
The thing is that your illusion partner shares all the even functions (the ones you particularly suck at and need to feel healthy) with your dual. so...
And maybe you were lucky with your activity partner. For example, I think that if Jessica129 and I ever became friends irl we'd have that same insecurities problem.

Hmm, the insecurity thing is interesting. I never really noticed or considered that before. Do you really think that all delta introverts have these same insecurities? Also, do you think the same effect happens with two INFj's, or is it only with the activity relations?

I know that illusionary partners share some common traits with my dual, but it is definitely not anywhere near as comfortable as a dual relationship. I think that illusionary relations can be therapeutic when people are just relaxing and talking, but they can be somewhat stressful when you actually try to do things or work together to accomplish something. But maybe illusionary relations wouldn't be too bad for a living situation since I usually just try and relax at home anyways.

[ann2430]

Codependency, as in, sharing responsibilities with house work, cooking, et cetera as opposed to 'every man for himself' kind of idea. I was going to mention that if you and the ISTp develop some kind of relationship then things would be a little different. I agree, also, with the miscommunication and the overstimulation that occurs but overall I also enjoy the relationship.

I would personally pick the ESFj because they are fun, but quite relaxing. Maybe some miscommunication (Fe vs. Fi) but overstimulation rarely occurs.

Of course, strictly assuming that neither the ESFj nor the ISTp are my friends (I cannot help but feel as if I am choosing one friend over the other).

Yes, I also really enjoy activity relationships. The ISTp makes a wonderful friend. However, I don't think its really ideal for a living situation. Actually, neither of these people are my friends (at least not yet) so I don't have to choose one friend over the other. And yes, I am leaning towards picking the ESFj.

[ann2430]

I'd totally go for activity over illusion. Some (not all) of my illusionaries drive me crazy with competitvness.

That's interesting because illusionary partners seem to be pretty different, so it doesn't seem like there is much to compete about. My sister is my illusionary (ESFj) and I don't feel like we had much competition growing up. Then again, I am a noncompetitive person by nature so I don't really try and compete with anyone.

[FDG]

That's interesting because illusionary partners seem to be pretty different, so it doesn't seem like there is much to compete about. My sister is my illusionary (ESFj) and I don't feel like we had much competition growing up. Then again, I am a noncompetitive person by nature so I don't really try and compete with anyone.

Well ISTjs are STs, after all. Some of them are competitive; perhaps an ENFj would either match their competitivness, or let it slide with feeling. Also, we can butt heads in thinking matters, in case of disagreement.

[The Greeter]

Hmm, the insecurity thing is interesting. I never really noticed or considered that before. Do you really think that all delta introverts have these same insecurities? Also, do you think the same effect happens with two INFj's, or is it only with the activity relations?

In my personal experience, no. I cannot speak for Ritella but, admitedly, I do not relate much to her experiences with ISTps. Some problems I have had with ISTps, other than ones I already mentioned, are more related to taking initiative in actually meeting each other.

I have to think about the others, if any.

[Wynch]

That's interesting because illusionary partners seem to be pretty different, so it doesn't seem like there is much to compete about. My sister is my illusionary (ESFj) and I don't feel like we had much competition growing up. Then again, I am a noncompetitive person by nature so I don't really try and compete with anyone.

Perhaps it depends. For instance my illusionary roomie and I are both sub-types of the other person's hidden agenda. So when I'm trying to be cute and funny and maneuver the social atmosphere of the house, Robbie always trumps me. But not only does he trump me, but he looks at me like I'm completely lacking in entertainment value, at which point I feel insecure and I back off. Similarly, when the household launches into intellectual discussion, I feel very comfortable in that arena and I'm very good at constructing my own arguments there. Robbie, though he is certainly very intelligent and quick, has difficulty holding his own if I happen to see a flaw in his argument and I have the tendency to debate merely for the sake of debating. So while he often has well-thought-out arguments, I will sometimes take them down simply for the purpose of discussion, at which point he always seems uncomfortable and backs off.

I think another central role in this relationship is that neither of us is in the same-quadra relationships. So if Robbie were to be faced with an argument from a beta ST, he might take it more in stride because the beta ST's purpose is to approve or disprove with a sense of finality, which he feels is necessary with his own sometimes abstract questioning. Meanwhile, when I act like a complete fool in front of my alpha SF roomie, he at least finds some entertainment in the fact that my humour is apparently off the wall and falls into that bizarre realm of alpha NT weirdness. And, if he thinks I'm making things awkward, he simply redirects attention onto himself and carries the conversation in a new direction. At that point I know I've either gone too far or am just completely off-base, but I don't take it negatively because he's diplomatically drawn the attention away from me rather than focusing attention on my failure.

With my activity, Si-ESFj Jon, our interaction seems a little more balanced. Perhaps the fact that we're both socionic extroverts with sub-types of each-other's seeking function plays a major role, but Jon and I tend to have a smoother relationship. Certainly Jon and I have discussed in the past the fact that we envy each-other's strengths, but it's not in the same way as Robbie and I. Instead we seem to draw on each other's strengths and bond through mutual quadra values for a very comfortable relationship. Additionally, because we are both sub-types opposite to our temperament our energy-levels are very well suited. We're not quite duals, but we kind of float in the grey area between types in the respective clubs of our quadra.

Sorry, that all sounded kind of complicated, but I wanted to try and condense my ideas as much as possible :/