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Thread: ISTp quitting smocking pot

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    Default ISTp quitting smocking pot

    Ok so heres the story. Ive known an ISTp since i was 5 years old. We got into a fight (of course i won, j/ks) and the principle made us shake hands so we were friends. This guy has always been a firery ginger. He used to fight with lots of people. This guy has had a tough life. Many of my friends didn't like him, he got kind of picked on in school, and in general has just been wayward for years.

    Hes been smoking pot for 10 years now. He holds a job as a tree cutter but spends most of his time in his room (parents garage). His cognitions are just screwed up. Thinks girls are dumb and just has this bundle of unhealthy thoughts wound so tight in his brain it would take me days to try to understand them. My ESTj doctor friend thinks hes fucked, he just said its too late for him now, hes missed the life stages that would have led him to be normal. He has some issues with this friend, saying he stole lots of girls from him in the past, which is basically totally wrong. The INFj girl fell for her dual, not her activity partner (funny that).

    I would at least like to help, and i want him to quit pot. Im basically sure that my chances of me getting him to quit are about 1%. I have tackled the discussion from more angles you can point a stick at.

    Ive told him i believe its medically wrong for him, could affect brain imbalance / actually shrink his brain. He tells me thats bullshit the research is wrong, class b drug blah blah, and he says that he will quit if it starts to do damage. I try to explain that its probablly been doing damage for the last 5 years. He said he quit riding when he broke his ankle. Im like dude that was an immediate effect this could be slow and long term.

    Ive said that even if it doesn't effect him medically, he is booring as shit when hes on it, girls typically hate dope and thats why hes never had many long term girlfriends, and that i think it is probablly impairing his ability to work shit out and find his centre again (if it actually exists).

    He just tells me that he is angry and violent without dope and It helps him sleep, helps him think and that people cant handle him without it. I just say this voilent person he remembers was him as a 15 year old kid. His brain was still growing. He hopefully has grown up and learnt some strategies. Anyway i just offered him money to try to quit for a few months. I recon my friend would pay also. Just to see.

    So what do you guys think? Maybe im wrong and smoking dope on a daily basis isn't even that bad. Is this the best he can be, the way he is now? I mean i dont think pot is like the devils drug or anything. I just think its holding him back. If he continues down his path im certianlly not going to be his friend forever thats for sure. Thanks for reading

    P.S - After all that reading, perhaps my timing was innapropriate. He has just finished his apprentiship and is now earning a lot more money, and thus wants to go out more. Perhaps his shit will finally begin working itself out by itself
    Last edited by meatburger; 11-27-2008 at 11:00 AM.
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  2. #2
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    People will of course disagree, but i've seen the effects of daily pot smoking. It's like anything really, some people seem to be able to handle it and others have become seriously fucked up. I think the people that handle it are generally healthier than the people that don't, and your friend doesn't sound healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    He has some issues with this friend, saying he stole lots of girls from him in the past, which is basically totally wrong. The INFj girl fell for her dual, not her activity partner (funny that).
    If the "INFj girl" was his (SLI you speak of) 'girlfriend' and his other friend (LSE) began dating (banging) her while she was involved with the SLI, that's still stealing someone elses girl.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    If the "INFj girl" was his (SLI you speak of) 'girlfriend' and his other friend (LSE) began dating (banging) her while she was involved with the SLI, that's still stealing someone elses girl.
    Nah thats not how it happened. He had his eyes on her first that is correct, but no banging or even dating happened. She fell for the ESTj.
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    Hmmm...there really isn't much you can do to persuade someone to change if they don't think they have a problem and are unwilling to change that aspect of their life, unfortunately. I'm sure deep down he appreciates your efforts. I know I would if I had a friend that dedicated...it'd mean a lot. Are you sure you want to keep this friendship up? It kind of seems one-sided (i'm sure he obviously thinks of you as a friend, that's not what I mean...just seems like he's not putting in any effort) and that can be stressful. Again, there's only so much you can do for people and then it's really all up to them to pull their own lives together. It's hard to hold back when you see someone being destructive but ultimately it's their choice...they'll only change when they want to change. At least that's my thinking on the subject...

    This guy has always been a firery ginger
    lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    My ESTj doctor friend thinks hes fucked, he just said its too late for him now, hes missed the life stages that would have led him to be normal.

    I would at least like to help, and i want him to quit pot. Im basically sure that my chances of me getting him to quit are about 1%. I have tackled the discussion from more angles you can point a stick at.

    Ive told him i believe its medically wrong for him, could affect brain imbalance / actually shrink his brain. He tells me thats bullshit the research is wrong, class b drug blah blah, and he says that he will quit if it starts to do damage. I try to explain that its probablly been doing damage for the last 5 years.

    Ive said that even if it doesn't effect him medically, he is booring as shit when hes on it, girls typically hate dope and thats why hes never had many long term girlfriends, and that i think it is probablly impairing his ability to work shit out and find his centre again (if it actually exists).

    He just tells me that he is angry and violent without dope and It helps him sleep, helps him think and that people cant handle him without it. I just say this voilent person he remembers was him as a 15 year old kid. His brain was still growing. He hopefully has grown up and learnt some strategies. Anyway i just offered him money to try to quit for a few months. I recon my friend would pay also. Just to see.

    So what do you guys think? Maybe im wrong and smoking dope on a daily basis isn't even that bad. Is this the best he can be, the way he is now? I mean i dont think pot is like the devils drug or anything. I just think its holding him back. If he continues down his path im certianlly not going to be his friend forever thats for sure. Thanks for reading

    P.S - After all that reading, perhaps my timing was innapropriate. He has just finished his apprentiship and is now earning a lot more money, and thus wants to go out more. Perhaps his shit will finally begin working itself out by itself

    well that estj is wrong.. tell him to go fuck himself. If you want to help your friend I think you can.. and you sould try to.

    Ps what kind of dope do you refer to? Pot? He could be worse off you know.. maybe youcan try to deal with his depression and not just focus on the drug as the main problem.. therehas to bea reason he needs to alter reality????
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    I agree with both Cyclops and Jessica here. But I would like to say that by wanting to try to change your friend, you could be setting yourself up for more than you bargained.

    I consider myself a functional pothead, but I don't think that everyone can be one; in fact I've known many people who seemed incapable of moderating their usage. It certainly sounds like your friend is using it as a crutch.

    I think every human has to figure his/her own shit out. You can play a part in helping him raise his awareness and/or in supporting him in attempting to overcome old habits that aren't working so well for him anymore. But don't go so far as to make him rely on you to make the changes - that's codependent, unsustainable, and should be viewed as a step backward.

    It sounds like he's got a few things going his way right now. Maybe you could give him some encouragement to take this trend and run with it. Tell him that you'd like him to see giving up pot as an experiment that he should be ready for - that as his friend you think he'll see a positive outcome, and that would make you happy for him. Beyond that, it really is up to him, no matter how much more you'd like to do. My $0.02, anyway.
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    My husband smoked weed for a long time (before I knew him) and the worst thing that happened to him is that he gained a pretty good amount of weight from the constant munchies, and he's never been able to take it off. So you could go with the vanity angle if you wanted. That's why I never started smoking it. All my friends who did ended up with huge butts.
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    An SLI receiving psychological help from an IEE? That's weird.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    I think the people that handle it are generally healthier than the people that don't, and your friend doesn't sound healthy.
    So you think that the ones that handle it well and are basically as sharp as they once were even after years of using it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    At least that's my thinking on the subject...
    Yeah i think you are right. In a way, he tries to maintain the relationship more than me actually. He rings me to play golf and come over. Its just half the time i dont want to because hes had a few cones, and kind of mumbles to me in his filthy room about stuff as we watch tv . In reality im not that dedicated friend its just i wish i could help right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B
    Ps what kind of dope do you refer to? Pot? He could be worse off you know..
    Yeah good question i just meant Marijuana and ur dead right could be much worse. Could be much better too . The medical profession seems pretty split as to whether it causes long term damage or not. What is pretty clear is that it dulls your brain for 12-24 hours, which means that his brain is dull practically all of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu
    I consider myself a functional pothead, but I don't think that everyone can be one; in fact I've known many people who seemed incapable of moderating their usage. It certainly sounds like your friend is using it as a crutch.

    I think every human has to figure his/her own shit out. You can play a part in helping him raise his awareness and/or in supporting him in attempting to overcome old habits that aren't working so well for him anymore. But don't go so far as to make him rely on you to make the changes - that's codependent, unsustainable, and should be viewed as a step backward.
    Yeah it depends i suppose what you mean by functional. He actually handles the pot very well, like it doesn't trip him out at all. He cant moderate his usage though as hes addicted. Its on a twice daily basis. Ultimately you are right he must do it himself, and changing an ISTp seems near impossible lol. I think intervention is very important sometimes. Im sure many heroin addicts lives were changed because someone cared. If they were left to their own devices it could have been the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    All my friends who did ended up with huge butts.
    I like big butts and i can not lie!!! Unfortunately hes thin as a rake so that wont help. Its true though that his teeth skin and lungs are probablly suffering from smoking though. I think the problem is because pot is a natural herb, it couldn't possibly be bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    An SLI receiving psychological help from an IEE? That's weird.
    . I might be able to fix his brain but he would have to submit his mind to me totally for a few weeks. Too bad im not like Xavier from x-men or i would just invade it without his permission. Would probablly drive me insane.

    Anyway he has started loving golf and playing that quite a bit, so coupled with earning more money things might be on the improve. It would be awesome to set him up with an ENFp girl i know, but if i was a girl i dont think i would date him right now lol. I just think that if you use a substance to cloud your issues, they never get worked out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    An SLI receiving psychological help from an IEE? That's weird.
    why?

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    Your doctor friend sounds like an idiot.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Your doctor friend sounds like an idiot.
    Hes one of the smartest people i know with a good head on his shoulders. He has spent quite a lot of time working the rounds in the psych wards working with people with all types of mental illnesses. He also sees it a bit differently to me, because he is basically always the recipient of angst from this guy. The ISTp seems to have an inferiority complex or something because the ESTj has a long term girlfriend, nice apartment and a career practicing medicine. The ISTp hates the ESTj for this and believes all types of negative things, when from my point of view, the ESTj has just created a good life for himself. I am serious in saying that this guys life perspective is so skewed, that without something snapping, its going to end up badly.

    I think in a fairy tale land people can always change and be healed. In fact i am a strong believer that there is always hope. The reality is though, that the longer someone has destructive thoughts and has destructive behaviours for, the less likely they will reform. For example if he continued on his path, he may wake up one day 10 years older. Still smoking his pot hating the world. Everyone he knows is married with children and he realises how much hes missed. Then he slips into a bitter rage because of this. I think my ESTj friend and i just differ in our belief in when/if hes hit the point of unlikely return.
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    He will not change until he starts experiencing his situation as a problem, that is, when he is with his back against the wall and has no other options left. (if it is a problem at all, but let's assume it is).

    In fact, your attempts at trying to help him might (again: MIGHT) actually be counterproductive, as it could in part be his pathological way of getting attention. Establishing clear boundaries might be more helpful, but be prepared to put your money where your mouth is.

    Another option (if his behavior is not creating any problem for you): just accept him for what he is, while at he same time holding on to your own ideas and opinions.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 11-28-2008 at 02:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    The ISTp seems to have an inferiority complex or something because the ESTj has a long term girlfriend, nice apartment and a career practicing medicine. The ISTp hates the ESTj for this and believes all types of negative things, when from my point of view, the ESTj has just created a good life for himself.
    There might be some truth in his ideas; keep in mind that deltas are aristocratic. I've been raised in an alpha family and my delta relatives look "down" at us.

    Your knowledge about socionics isn't complete unless you're aware that your own quadra isn't that perfect as you think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Your knowledge about socionics isn't complete unless you're aware that your own quadra isn't that perfect as you think.
    Quite right: I'm in Buenos Aires right now, and as far as I can tell, the place is pretty Gamma/Delta. Very low on Fe. These people behave very much like I do. I hate to admit it, but the place is lacking in Betas (at least the barrios I'm in), which is boring as hell.
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