SEI-EIE Supervision relations (ISFp and ENFj)

[redbaron]

I think an ENFJ-ISFP can be a fun relationship. One that organizes fun and the one that goes along with it. I think Introverts as Supervisors works better than Extroverts working as Supervisors.

totally true.

[Ritella]

The answer is YES.
Some types deserve to be supervised.

[Park]

The answer is YES.
Some types deserve to be supervised.

Now that's the spirit I like.

[07490]

The answer is YES.
Some types deserve to be supervised.

yea the alphas need to be supervised.

[theMime.]

I came back from the grave to ask about this.

To all the ENFjs out there, have you ever been in a romantic relationship with an ISFp? If so what was that like?

Actually, what I really wanna know is, have any of you been in a relationship with an ISFp where you felt like everything worked out really well and the supervision aspect of it didn't really matter all that much?

As an ISFp I actually really don't have all that much trouble with ESTjs (my supervisors) at all....definitely way less than the descriptions of supervision suggest. I'm really hoping it's the same way with ENFjs....or heh...I guess at least just one ENFj in particular

[Jarno]

My former female colleague ENFJ-Fe had a relationship with an ISFp.

They were together for about 3 or 4 years and then broke up.

I once met them outside of work, and she looked really supervised, very submissive as if she had no right to exist. I think the relationship sucks to be honest.

[theMime.]

My former female colleague ENFJ-Fe had a relationship with an ISFp.

They were together for about 3 or 4 years and then broke up.

I once met them outside of work, and she looked really supervised, very submissive as if she had no right to exist. I think the relationship sucks to be honest.

Are you sure that's the reason why she looked like that? Was it that she looked like that only when around him?

Also, ENFjs are YOUR supervisors...how was it working with your colleague?

[theMime.]

I wonder though if maybe going for it with Mr. Amazing ENFj is at least worth a shot....he actually MIGHT be an Fe-INFp anyway....I'm hoping he is...

[silke]

UGH! Why do MY supervisees have to be so damn amazing?!

you sure of your type? supervisees tend to be slightly boring

when I am the supervisor, things tend to go sour when my supervisee decides to make a contribution with their creative function ... I can't appreciate it, in fact have a knee-jerk reaction to run away from it as fast as I can, as a result they start feeling undervalued and frustrated

[theMime.]

you sure of your type? supervisees tend to be slightly boring

when I am the supervisor, things tend to go sour when my supervisee decides to make a contribution with their creative function ... I can't appreciate it, in fact have a knee-jerk reaction to run away from it as fast as I can, as a result they start feeling undervalued and frustrated

Oh hey you quoted that before I changed it....good thing too...you might be onto something.


I dunno. I'm pretty sure. I mean I guess...

I MIGHT (but probably not) be an INFp actually. Shindaiwa DID describe my behavior as intuitive-like when he met me IRL.

Mr. Amazing ENFj might actually be an ESFj? Which honestly ESFjs come across as well...good people but just....not people I'm usually all that interested in most of the time. I actually attributed it to possibly being BECAUSE we have the same functions.

Mr. Amazing ENFj might actually be an INFp.


But I dunno. Some people are just amazing. You know, like that one person that everybody likes.

ETA: I find my beneficiaries to be slightly boring. Which makes sense, their polr is Ne....which is what I'm after. But my supervisee's is Si which might be my dominant function but it's not what I'm after.

[Jarno]

Also, ENFjs are YOUR supervisors...how was it working with your colleague?

yes supervision is a trap. I felt great working with her. I looked up to her, almost adore her.
But the relationship will suck. But being mates in work environment was cool. nothing wrong with that.

[yellow82]

Just for the record, my brother, (ENFj) dislikes all of my ISFp best pals. He thinks that they're good people, (for the most part), but he feels like they're always judging him and he dislikes feeling judged. I personally don't get it, because I get along EXTREMELY well with ISFp's and these pals of mine are very awesome.

He used to love all of my ISFp pals. Then one-by-one he got close to them, and they ended up basically disliking each other. It's weird because I'll be with him and his pals, and my ISFp friend will come up and they'll completely ignore each other while I'm having a great convo with them.

The ISFp's think my brother is immature. My brother thinks the ISFp's are overly critical and finds just the way they stand intimidating. . .

My brother would never turn up his nose (outwardly) to anybody, no matter how much he disliked them. But I think the two types he generally dislikes most and that he generally has to talk a lot to, are ESFp's and ISFp's.

So in general: the relationship will seem amazing at first, but the closer you get the worse off your relationship gets.

I would be cautious moving into the relationship. . . I personally would never go for anyone that I thought was an INFp. I've been in close relationships with INFp's before and they were terrible relationships.

Also, your Supervisee will feel the effects of the relationship more then you. I doubt the ENFj will say yes.

I have only seen ENFj's in relationships with: ENFj's, ESFj's, INFp's, INFj's and ISTj's.

But I guess there's a first time for everything. . .

[rat1]

Dont let socionics make decisions like this for you.

[Pa3s]

Dont let socionics make decisions like this for you.

I second that.

[theMime.]

yes supervision is a trap. I felt great working with her. I looked up to her, almost adore her.
But the relationship will suck. But being mates in work environment was cool. nothing wrong with that.

That's really good to hear because that's actually how I know Mr. Amazing ENFj...we work together.

I think I'm gonna be more careful though when he asks for my opinion. I probably do come off as way too critical


ETA: Hi Starfall!!!

Double ETA: Thanks for all your responses, guys.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

yayyyy! The Mime!

I'm waiting for the return of the gummy worms avatar.

[07490]

I came back from the grave to ask about this.

To all the ENFjs out there, have you ever been in a romantic relationship with an ISFp? If so what was that like?

Actually, what I really wanna know is, have any of you been in a relationship with an ISFp where you felt like everything worked out really well and the supervision aspect of it didn't really matter all that much?

As an ISFp I actually really don't have all that much trouble with ESTjs (my supervisors) at all....definitely way less than the descriptions of supervision suggest. I'm really hoping it's the same way with ENFjs....or heh...I guess at least just one ENFj in particular

Hey the Mime. Wassup? I hope you remember me because I remember vividly a lot of who you are, lol I guess.

Man I could say a lot about this but I am not sure where to start. but for what its worth, I think ISFp woman are very attractive, I considered them the types to very the most feminine and sexiest of all socionics type. more so than my dual ISTj, ESTp, and somewhat ENFj and you can add INFp in there. I would definity considered being with one long term even if I know its supervision.

I will be fully myself when I first meet an ISFp, I am usually outgoing and am the one who keeps conversation going and what not. I will continue that as it goes on through with the relationship. One thing I noticed heavily is that I feel their very strongly, much more so than any types in socionics, ISTp, ESFj and Delta ST. I feel being "look at" from them because of it and especially when I get very close to them. I don't think that's really a big issues but i guess problems can start where it contradict my inner value and where it stems deeply toward intuition. ISFp seem to brush the unimportant of NI, they just don't value it, and that goes against value, their SI. That's the core for many enfjs and deep down for them if this value can fully form they can be themselves and complement them naturally, for a better dominant function.

It's nice and so ISFp "let go" a lot of their problem and this goes with the saying that if you don't think about your problem you would have no problem, or that if you worry you seem to die one thousand time but if you don't worry you die once. that's a very refreshing forms of philosophy for MANY ENFJ that worries way too much. ~ it's this way that makes me feel at odd and temporary good about my self when I am spending my time with the ISFps. But then I noticed that when I see a long term implication this seems to change a lot of who I am and I seem to alter myself in an unhealthy way as it goes against my healthy form of manifestation. I don't know how to explain this to be percise and I at this point wanna distance myself from them. I and a few ENFj wants to solved the problem instead of ingoing it, while of course if you ignore little problems, it's always good but it can also go at odd with SE hidden agenda too.

I know that thur my experiences that Supervisee will always be bothered my the supervisor's Polr and supervisor will try to explain its way through their Hidden agenda. SO maybe this is a problem too.

[07490]

Also, your Supervisee will feel the effects of the relationship more then you. I doubt the ENFj will say yes.

All Doubts Becomes certainty.

I am going to say yes.

[detail]

It's nice and so ISFp "let go" a lot of their problem and this goes with the saying that if you don't think about your problem you would have no problem, or that if you worry you seem to die one thousand time but if you don't worry you die once. that's a very refreshing forms of philosophy for MANY ENFJ that worries way too much. ~ it's this way that makes me feel at odd and temporary good about my self when I am spending my time with the ISFps. But then I noticed that when I see a long term implication this seems to change a lot of who I am and I seem to alter myself in an unhealthy way as it goes against my healthy form of manifestation. I don't know how to explain this to be percise and I at this point wanna distance myself from them. I and a few ENFj wants to solved the problem instead of ingoing it, while of course if you ignore little problems, it's always good but it can also go at odd with SE hidden agenda too.

This attitude is annoying to everyone i think. And when they actually value not going in morally oblivious mode, they're so rigid that a sloth on morphine is actually more exciting.

[07490]

This attitude is annoying to everyone i think. And when they actually value not going in morally oblivious mode, they're so rigid that a sloth on morphine is actually more exciting.

what you mean here is when they switch mode and starting using right? yeah I definity know what you mean there.


I mean they are all pretty laid back but the stubborn one carries this way to far to protect their hidden agenda they can also bomb you with weak ;-(.

[marooned]

I don't understand how ENFjs could find ISFps intimidating. I would think it would be the other way around (even though it goes against the supervision concept).

I mean I suppose the supervisor does have the upper hand. Fe is well known to SEI and so large displays of it are not terribly impressive or important (and I suppose that could be intimidating).

[theMime.]

@ Ryene Astraelis:

Haha. Either you have a really good memory or I had that gummy worms avatar up for a loooong time.

@ Loki:

Hi!

Yeah! Lol ISFps usually are very non-intimidating! We're like skittish little bunnies a lot of the time lol.


@ Numbers:

Yeah I remember you! How could I forget you. Thanks for your reply!! And thank you for starting out by saying what you like about ISFps. Hehe that's sooo...what are the words I'm looking for?...nice? sensitive? thoughtful? considerate?...not sure but you catch my drift. Lol honestly when I read your post I kinda smacked myself on the forehead and was like "Deng. That's how I need to talk." Like lol I feel like what I said about ESFjs and ISTjs could have been said way better [more nicely].

@ Detail and Numbers:

I don't ignore problems...and I especially don't ignore problems in relationships. I face them head on. Actually, I'm usually the one to initiate talking about things if I feel like the air needs to be cleared.

I'm a 4w5 sx/so btw.

I have strongly held moral beliefs and I'm pretty political. I'll be open to hearing other people's moral philosophies/beliefs because I'm addicted to perspective and understanding people (a 4w5 thing?) but I probably won't share my beliefs with most people...I'm pretty selective and private about that.

Not that I haven't run across an identical of mine or two that was very um...haha...morally permissive....or the opposite...morally rigid...just felt the need to set the record strait when it comes to myself.

[detail]

what you mean here is when they switch mode and starting using right? yeah I definity know what you mean there.


I mean they are all pretty laid back but the stubborn one carries this way to far to protect their hidden agenda they can also bomb you with weak ;-(.

Yeah they can become in the most "let's count the grains of sand one by one" possible way. I think this is why i generally have problems with them even though they are my dual. They don't seem to understand the relative position of things in the universe. So it's either "let's ignore it all" or "let's do it methodically" and both are not meaningful at all to me. BTW it doesn't mean they are not fun company.

[theMime.]

I've pretty much come to a decision already.

Thanks again, guys.

[Ezra]

I came back from the grave to ask about this.

To all the ENFjs out there, have you ever been in a romantic relationship with an ISFp? If so what was that like?

Actually, what I really wanna know is, have any of you been in a relationship with an ISFp where you felt like everything worked out really well and the supervision aspect of it didn't really matter all that much?

As an ISFp I actually really don't have all that much trouble with ESTjs (my supervisors) at all....definitely way less than the descriptions of supervision suggest. I'm really hoping it's the same way with ENFjs....or heh...I guess at least just one ENFj in particular

GIVE IT UP YO

Ain't ha'nin.

Stick to the ILEs! You'll get FAR more satisfaction! Even if it's okay for you - as supervision relationships tend to be for the supervisor - it's hell for him! It'll be much more rewarding for both you and an ILE him.

[07490]

I don't ignore problems...and I especially don't ignore problems in relationships. I face them head on. Actually, I'm usually the one to initiate talking about things if I feel like the air needs to be cleared.

No, I know that ISFp doesn't ignore problems and even more so if you are a 4 than 9.

What I should say is that they might ignore Ni or not looking at it the way ENFj will which is natural in other inter-quadra relationship anyway.

I'm a 4w5 sx/so btw.

When I wrote what I have written above was based on ISFp 9, I think this totally changes if you said you are a 9. to me 4 and 9 might look similar outside, but inside they are completely different people.

I have strongly held moral beliefs and I'm pretty political. I'll be open to hearing other people's moral philosophies/beliefs because I'm addicted to perspective and understanding people (a 4w5 thing?) but I probably won't share my beliefs with most people...I'm pretty selective and private about that.

Not that I haven't run across an identical of mine or two that was very um...haha...morally permissive....or the opposite...morally rigid...just felt the need to set the record strait when it comes to myself.

^^^ yea that is good, E-3,4,5 does work well, I believe.

[squark]

supervision is a trap.

yep. pretty much. everything looks all peachy, it seems good, but your lifeblood is slowly being drained until there's just a crunchy exoskeleton left. Happens so gradually that you hardly notice it. That's speaking from a supervisee's point of view though. The supervisor has it a lot easier.

[07490]

yep. pretty much. everything looks all peachy, it seems good, but your lifeblood is slowly being drained until there's just a crunchy exoskeleton left. Happens so gradually that you hardly notice it. That's speaking from a supervisee's point of view though. The supervisor has it a lot easier.

HMM it can work out if DCNH match, E types are good fit stacking, etc... Benefit/Supervision/Duality I think makes majority of marriage.

[squark]

HMM it can work out if DCNH match, E types are good fit stacking, etc... Benefit/Supervision/Duality I think makes majority of marriage.

I'm not going to say that socionics is everything, and that it can never work, but ime all those things matching and working (dcnh, e type and stacking, etc.) just cover up the actual problems. I was in a relationship with an ILE for awhile, and was the last one to notice the kind of negative effect he was having on me.

[07490]

I'm not going to say that socionics is everything, and that it can never work, but ime all those things matching and working (dcnh, e type and stacking, etc.) just cover up the actual problems. I was in a relationship with an ILE for awhile, and was the last one to notice the kind of negative effect he was having on me.

I also can't say I disagree with this anyway.

[redbaron]

Mime, maybe you're IEI. Which would also explain why things could go well with an EIE.... I dated an EIE for a short while once and I *greatly* admired him. He was extremely charismatic. I knew I couldn't be with him long term though because he was "out of sight out of mind" with people, seemed to enjoy the attention himself more than he enjoyed giving ME the attention (we beta NFs are attention whores sometimes), lol!

Supervision is to be avoided, if possible. It's very much okay on the surface but if you're looking for an internally substantial relationship that will help each of you grow in the long term, avoid it.

[Ezra]

Mime, maybe you're IEI. Which would also explain why things could go well with an EIE.... I dated an EIE for a short while once and I *greatly* admired him. He was extremely charismatic. I knew I couldn't be with him long term though because he was "out of sight out of mind" with people, seemed to enjoy the attention himself more than he enjoyed giving ME the attention (we beta NFs are attention whores sometimes), lol!

Supervision is to be avoided, if possible. It's very much okay on the surface but if you're looking for an internally substantial relationship that will help each of you grow in the long term, avoid it.

It could be so, although some supervisor couples do tend to work surprisingly well.

At least in terms of friendship - I'm friends with one of my supervisors, my girlfriend is, and my her friend is her supervisee. What we have in common is that we all get defensive/cutting remarks from our supervisees when around other people; maybe a kind of insecurity thing (since we feel somewhat insecure around our supervisors)?

[Nowisthetime]

Supervision is to be avoided, if possible. It's very much okay on the surface but if you're looking for an internally substantial relationship that will help each of you grow in the long term, avoid it.

Thank you for these words of wisdom.

[The Reality Denialist]

How this manifests in the real world?

Do EIEs (aristocratic) form some kind of social cliques and power games and it goes against SEI's (democratic) values? I think I have noticed this. I know an SEI who is very reactive to that kind of behavior.

[SpreeFirit]

IDK, they seem to love me... ;D

[Tallmo]

Normal supervision. Everything seems cool to me, but the EIE gets internally nervous. And I don't know why. (well, I know now, but I'm not supposed to)

I've never been interested in EIEs. They seem a little boring to me.

I get too much power by simply being myself. It's an odd feeling, and sometimes goes unnoticed by myself.

Supervision truly is an assymetrical relationship, it feels very different depending on which end you are at.

Once an EIE got totally furious at me when we talked typology. I just told her she was EIE and in an semidual relationship with my LII friend. She started to intimidate me in different ways and telling me what I was feeling, trying to get under my skin. I got very intimidated but you can't fight supervision. The setting is always against the supervisee.

Best results we get if the type sinks into the background and we just try to talk as "normal human beings".

[lefty]

I'm currently involved in a friendship (i'm enfj) with my supervisory type ISFP. I told him this equates with supervision in socionics and he said he's my supervisory angel, because I posted a quote about angels:


“O smile, going where? O upturned look:
new, warm, receding surge of the heart--;
alas, we are that surge. Does then the
cosmic space
we dissolve in taste of us? Do the
angels
reclaim only what is theirs, their own
outstreamed existence,
or sometimes, by accident, does a bit
of us
get mixed in? Are we blended in their
features
like the slight vagueness that
complicates the looks
of pregnant women? Unnoticed by them
in their
whirling back into themselves? (How
could they notice?)”
― Rainer Maria Rilke, Duino Elegies

How do you overcome the one way relationship that is a supervisee and a supervisor when the supervisors existence seems so much more consequential than our own? So infinitely more connected with abstract AND human reality than our own. Do parts of us mix in with them if we are able to offer them art or information that is new to them? Or do they simply absorb us:

“For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror
which we are barely able to endure, and it amazes us so,
because it serenely disdains to destroy us.
Every angel is terrible.”


― Rainer Maria Rilke, Duino Elegies

[silke]

a video of SEI-Si (him) and EIE (her) couple - even not being fluent in Russian one can tell they are in supervision relations

[Finaplex]

Oh god you can already see the cracks. I’d bet they last 36 months tops if they are strong and there is love and their souls have something needing to be learned. They will crash and burn hard you can already see in the first 25 seconds of the video. How long will she go before she finally accepts to herself that she resents him? You can only fake Fe for so long.

He seems oblivious which is how I personally class many SEI.

[Rebelondeck]

This ISFp-ENFj relationship would have significant challenges at best: a lemming trying to supervise an angler fish - in order for them to be together, one would have to be starved of oxygen.

a.k.a. I/O