SLIs/ISTps and Extraverted feeling Fe PoLR

[tereg]

The Andy Kaufman/Tony Clifton bit is another extension of this idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Clifton












Here's Judd Hirsch talking about Andy Kaufman. Notice how he says "The magician part is his act. If you could believe anything he does, he wins."

[Park]

Someone reiterated the other day that Fe PoLR is about being businesslike rather than about being abrasive or about flouting Fe rules. I think that this is a very good way of putting it - "businesslike" - and I wanted to post here to maybe offer more clarity on Fe PoLR in action.

When I'm talking, I'm focused on communicating the information as clearly as possible; it doesn’t even occur to me to consider the “emotional content” or what-have-you of the message. That’s not to say I won’t frame the way I say something in a way that [I hope] will not be offensive. In fact, in those situations where I think the topic is sensitive in some way, I can get so caught up on not offending anyone that my message suffers. That may be a decent example of why we shouldn’t focus too much on our super-ego functions, in fact, since it seems to hamper effective use of corresponding ego functions [Te vs. Fe in my case, but I’m sure every type has a parallel].

I think you got that right. "Businesslike" is a good way to decsribe how I communicate, and as a consequence I often get "What's wrong?" "Are you mad a tme?" "Is something bothering you?" etc. And I'm just thinking to myslef "Couldn't you just fucking listen to what I'm saying?" or "Did you hear anything I said?"...

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I think you got that right. "Businesslike" is a good way to decsribe how I communicate, and as a consequence I often get "What's wrong?" "Are you mad a tme?" "Is something bothering you?" etc. And I'm just thinking to myslef "Couldn't you just fucking listen to what I'm saying?" or "Did you hear anything I said?"...

Your communication style can often come across, that where you in a business, you would be sacked.

[Park]

Your communication style can often come across, that where you in a business, you would be sacked.

Do you want to be granted an award for wittiness now?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Do you want to be granted an award for wittiness now?

It was humour mixed in with a good point, which you may have missed.

I don't disagree with Songof in that she, and you see yourself as being businesslike, but being oblivious to the way of expression of things means that essentially you can come off as rude.

As can many Fe PoLR's, even though they don't see it that way-because they are oblivious, or at least unable to determine quite how they can come across to many people. Hence what you see as businesslike others easily perceive as rudeness.

Although to compare: I would say Songof generally comes across better than you, I don't think her Fe PoLR is quite as obvious as yours.

Edit: I can have same problem.

[kensi]

It was humour mixed in with a good point, which you may have missed.

I don't disagree with Songof in that she, and you see yourself as being businesslike, but being oblivious to the way of expression of things means that essentially you can come off as rude.

As can many Fe PoLR's, even though they don't see it that way-because they are oblivious, or at least unable to determine quite how they can come across to many people. Hence what you see as businesslike others easily perceive as rudeness.

Although to compare: I would say Songof generally comes across better than you, I don't think her Fe PoLR is quite as obvious as yours.

Is this 2 ISTPs fighting ?....what are your subtypes ?

edit: ISTps

[Creepy-female]

Your communication style can often come across, that where you in a business, you would be sacked.

But I don't think Winterpark is talking about his communication skills being optimal in an actual business setting. And I think you know that. Getting along in a business setting doesn't necessarily imply your level of communication should be "businesslike" if you're using the generally acceptable definition of the word "businesslike". Sucking up to your employers isn't "businesslike" in the sense of the word he meant, but it would certainly be beneficial in a business setting that encouraged it.

Sapho said "When I'm talking, I'm focused on communicating the information as clearly as possible; it doesn’t even occur to me to consider the “emotional content” or what-have-you of the message." That's what Winterpark was saying. What exactly is your point, other than being a smartass and twisting semantics?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

But I don't think Winterpark is talking about his communication skills being optimal in an actual business setting. And I think you know that. Getting along in a business setting doesn't necessarily imply your level of communication should be "businesslike" if you're using the generally acceptable definition of the word "businesslike". Sucking up to your employers isn't "businesslike" in the sense of the word he meant, but it would certainly be beneficial in a business setting that encouraged it.

Sapho said "When I'm talking, I'm focused on communicating the information as clearly as possible; it doesnt even occur to me to consider the emotional content or what-have-you of the message." That's what Winterpark was saying. What exactly is your point, other than being a smartass and twisting semantics?

what? LOL.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Is this 2 ISTPs fighting ?....what are your subtypes ?

edit: ISTps

Perhaps a little bit of both-fighting and discussing. But mainly discussing (I think) I'm pointing out how Fe PoLR may see themselves as being businesslike, but another person could easily just interpret it and their 'busineness like' style as rude, is all.

[redbaron]

I read somewhere in a description of IEIs that you shouldn't listen to our words, but to our music. I just adore that description. It's all in the way we communicate. And that's how I see Fe. I talk with people to understand them, and when we talk, the words are just part of how I understand them.

Also I'm not sure I agree the dancing in the Ellen video is a good example of Fe. Well, it probably is an attempt of Fe (?), but I wouldn't feel good having to dance with everybody on command neither. I totally connect with that guy.

Fe for me is not about "collective fun" at all. It's about connecting with people and their emotions. Connect minds and make a good, relaxed ambient for whatever conversation we will have. I "read" people through their body language, their voice, their eye movements, their facial expression, etc. Words are just words, people can be mistaken, so I don't trust words nearly as much as I trust what I pick up in general. The words just complete the picture. Fe is a communicative function for me.

Exactly! You said this so well. I had this SEI friend and we would talk about all sorts of things but the content of our conversations was nearly unimportant compared to everything else, the tone, the body language, eye movements, facial expressions, etc.

And... I don't like venues where I'm expected to talk about my feelings, especially not with strangers. yuck.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Exactly! You said this so well. I had this SEI friend and we would talk about all sorts of things but the content of our conversations was nearly unimportant compared to everything else, the tone, the body language, eye movements, facial expressions, etc.

And... I don't like venues where I'm expected to talk about my feelings, especially not with strangers. yuck.

This is the sort of thing that I mean when Fe PoLR can be viewed as rude by some-even if it isn't their intention. Lots of people look for the above and if it's not delivered in sufficient quality or correctly then, I dunno, I think it can come across like we're annoyed or trying to offend or something? (even though the rudeness or lack or subtlely etc may not be intended as the case) ;-p

[redbaron]

This is the sort of thing that I mean when Fe PoLR can be viewed as rude by some-even if it isn't their intention. Lots of people look for the above and if it's not delivered in sufficient quality or correctly then, I dunno, I think it can come across like we're annoyed or trying to offend or something? (even though the rudeness or lack or subtlely etc may not be intended as the case) ;-p

Yes, definitely. ALTHOUGH I will say that I don't normally look for this unless I know the person usually gives it to me. For example, with this SEI friend I had, when he would go all quiet and "businesslike" on me, I'd know something was up. I usually didn't ask him what was wrong but it was like a signal that something was on his mind and he didn't feel like interacting with me. gah. and he would (actually still does) go all hot and cold, sometimes using Fe and other times not at all, being very guarded with me. (probably this is a special case, there are issues) but anyway, that's an example of looking for Fe and not getting it and being like

[jessica129]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_NhrdtRzdY

How would SLIs feel if they were interviewing him? I imagine Fe PoLR isn't so much about "hating" Fe as it is about feeling awkward in certain Fe-situations, not knowing how to react? At least that's how I feel when taking PoLR hits.

That women is a droid. W-t-f. I'd feel much, much more comfortable in his presence than hers. Ew. Could she at least pretend to have a personality?

I'd find him slightly intimidating but that's about it. He seems likeable.

[meatburger]

That women is a droid. W-t-f. I'd feel much, much more comfortable in his presence than hers. Ew. Could she at least pretend to have a personality?

I'd find him slightly intimidating but that's about it. He seems likeable.

Good call i was kind of thinking that. She could have also been nervous / language or culture barrier / inexperienced interviewer. I hate interviews where the interviewer doesn't actually seem like she is listening to what the interviewee is saying. Still was a good example i thought! At the end when he said that thing about the necklace, and she went all uncomfortable and didn't know what to say, i can relate to that. Theres something about an Fe type doing a big smile and prompting me for a response that can make me feel weird like that. I notice it most of all from ENTp's. I feel like i must keep the Fe going around them, however eventually i have to give it up.

[tiny_dancer]

Wow, that's the most awkward interview ever.

[Sirena]

Good call i was kind of thinking that. She could have also been nervous / language or culture barrier / inexperienced interviewer. I hate interviews where the interviewer doesn't actually seem like she is listening to what the interviewee is saying. Still was a good example i thought! At the end when he said that thing about the necklace, and she went all uncomfortable and didn't know what to say, i can relate to that. Theres something about an Fe type doing a big smile and prompting me for a response that can make me feel weird like that. I notice it most of all from ENTp's. I feel like i must keep the Fe going around them, however eventually i have to give it up.

I know what you mean. I've felt that way too, which makes me think my cousin isn't ENTp since I never feel like I have to keep the Fe going for him, but that's beside the point here.

[marooned]

Hi. I'm going to be SLI for a while. I'm just not relating to lately and I know I'm IP so that only leaves two types (though not that I want a discussion about my type because I'm afraid of such things).

I watched these videos a while back, and the Oprah one is a little foggy...

I know I've used this example before a couple of times, but imagine you were dragged to this and you find yourself in this scenario.

And channel that feeling into words.

I would feel intensely uncomfortable in this setting and might flee the room. If it was dark I would feel better with it maybe. But also it's the entire idea of it... that everyone is "supposed to be" doing it... I mean this isn't like one of those things that I feel scared to participate in but I really long to inside... it's instead something that I wouldn't even want to participate in. And I remember when I was watching this video that I started feeling locked up inside and mortified (though more mortified because I really related to that guy, especially to the self-consciousness aspect). Anyway, it's really hard for me to do something like break into spontaneous dancing, though there have been times that I have really wanted to, or wished I could, but felt some sort of block that I can't get past. (It's more involved than that, but I don't feel like saying more.)

Or imagine you were dragged to a taping of Oprah, and suddenly this happened.

Channel that emotion into words

I don't remember being "bothered" by this one... I thought it was kind of annoying that the audience had mis-interpretted her and erupted into unnecessary cheer when it didn't apply... but I think I thought it was funny. But it's one of those things where it carries, so it starts somewhere and everyone begins doing it... and why doesn't matter anymore. There have been times that I've longed to be able to lose myself in something like that (though not in this example... I think I would be looking around confused)... and other times where I've feared the idea of losing myself in a crowd energy... but I think the former longing outweighs this.

ETA: But it was also "unwarranted excitement" because what is so exciting about it?

[tiny_dancer]

Hi Loki! LOL - jessica might have decided she's LSI, and you've decided to be SLI for a while. Enjoy your foray into delta-land.

I'm thinking anyone would feel uncomfortable in that Oprah setting. We're gonna need a new youtube clip for Fe.

[Sirena]

Loki, good to have you in Delta! Stay as long as you like. Can never have too many duals around.

[jessica129]

I'm thinking anyone would feel uncomfortable in that Oprah setting. We're gonna need a new youtube clip for Fe.

That's what I'm thinking. I mean, clearly no sane human being would act like that or enjoy that.

[tiny_dancer]

Well, they ARE all rabid Oprah fans.

[Suz]

DeAnte shared an Fe-POLR moment in another thread recently which was hilariously AWESOME, and mentioned he has more examples.


So SLI's I am eager to hear more Fe-POLR stories, so please share!!

[Galen]

Fe-PoLR is hot. I think I find it more interesting than Te creative.

[UDP]

I had a Fe polr moment, sort of, when I spoke about Galen's name in the lounge.

[Suz]

Fe-PoLR is hot. I think I find it more interesting than Te creative.

I like both. I have to say I Te, so ILIs, LIEs, LSEs, and SLIs are all appealing! And of course Si. I think with Si it's more that i have intense gratitude for it.

Come on Fe-POLR's dont be shyyyy. . .


(ILI's welcome to contribute too!)

[Suz]

I had a Fe polr moment, sort of, when I spoke about Galen's name in the lounge.

lol no it wasn't Fe-POLR b/c u knew it might come across offensive. And u showed Fi-valuing by asking if it did.

We all know u were kidding!! (I hope. I know i did).

[Cyrano]

lol no it wasn't Fe-POLR b/c u knew it might come across offensive. And u showed Fi-valuing by asking if it did.

We all know u were kidding!! (I hope. I know i did).

I have an ESFj coworker, very creative and fun, but Oh, the ups and downs! She goes off on some customer or co-worker about twice a week. She just hates me, know-it-all, that I am. I do tend to torpedo her fantasy-facts from time to time, but she just makes stuff up. I can forgive mistakes and enjoy the flights of fancy, but then she has to insist she's right and demand her way in a very Fe way. I just can't help but ask her to back up her wild suppositions with a fact from time to time. I don't do it to embarrass her, but if left to her own, she would blow the place up. Once she complained enough to force my boss to have a sit down with us. Her complaint was that I was doing work she felt should be hers, made her feel disrespected. Of course I had no clue that she felt that way, but I'm happy to let her take on all the work she wants. :wink:

[inabox]

Fe polr is hot, especially because when Fe polrs smile/laugh, it's f**ing dazzling.

[applejacks]

Fe polr is hot, especially because when Fe polrs smile/laugh, it's f**ing dazzling.

Yes, the smile!! When my SLI hubby laughs / smiles, it's like a beam of sunshine straight into my heart. Whenever I want to get a rise out of him, I'll reach my hands toward him and say, "Let's talk about our feelings!" This prompts him to run away. Instantly.

Also, the Andy Kaufman stuff makes me extremely uncomfortable.

[applejacks]

My hubby and I stayed at my parents' a few weeks ago. He was looking extremely handsome that morning, so I amped up my emotional response as a joke with him.

Me: *GASP*
Him: What?
Me: SO HANDSOME!!! LOVE me!!
Him: *runs behind the curtains*


EDIT: This picture should be captioned, "SLI in the presence of Fe"

[Park]

Fe polr is hot, especially because when Fe polrs smile/laugh, it's f**ing dazzling.

[inabox]

Aww ; also their Ti demonstrative is really lovely, like yes explain that to me without being condescending or meeeean .

[Park]

Aww ; also their Ti demonstrative is really lovely, like yes explain that to me without being condescending or meeeean .

[inabox]

(@Park, I think Ron's a LSI-Ti (he does seem to enjoy Fe-Se in his love life), his actor is 9w8 SLI but that's for another thread.)

[epheme]

My hubby and I stayed at my parents' a few weeks ago. He was looking extremely handsome that morning, so I amped up my emotional response as a joke with him.

Me: *GASP*
Him: What?
Me: SO HANDSOME!!! LOVE me!!

Haha, this is like mine and my SLE husband's relationship all the time (except instead of running for the curtains, he run towards me like this ). I seriously think he would be completely confused and hopeless without these constant displays.

[Mercuria]

I know this is a really old post and I'm new-ish... but this caught my attention and I finally decided to jump in, because several comments in this thread encapsulate my experience with Fi-Polr, Ti and Te.

Fi-Polr
Person A: I hate it when you say things like you weren't smart at the time and have grown up and made a better decision... It's insulting to other people making the same decisions you made when you weren't smart, implying they're stupid.
Me: I'm speaking for me and me alone. Stop personalizing and applying my experience to yourself or other people. I never once said they, them, we, us, or you. Now here's a statement you can take personally: You're a terrible listener. Do you see the difference?

Ti-valuing vs. Te-valuing:
Person A: I don't have right things, I have reasons (comment made during a podcast).
Me: Screw your reasons, if they aren't right (immediate thought in my head).

Te-valuing: @redbaron - Listening to someone's "music" instead of their words makes no sense to me.
I MUCH prefer the clear communication style of Te. I don't know about other IEEs but I'm a walking encyclopedia, but I don't understand half of it. Knowing and understanding are 2 different things. Te doesn't just know, it understands and explains in perfect form. This IEE doesn't want or need any fluff, in fact, if you present information to me with fluff I'm automatically suspicious of it. I feel it's unnecessary and manipulative. Others can think the SLI business like approach in conversation is uncomfortable, but my antennae immediately goes up and I'm all ears. I don't want just another opinion based on a personal and biased set of rules... aka "reasons." Screw reasons. I want THE rules and no type does a better job of providing them than an SLI, imo.

[Beautiful sky]

I know this is a really old post and I'm new-ish... but this caught my attention and I finally decided to jump in, because several comments in this thread encapsulate my experience with Fi-Polr, Ti and Te.

Fi-Polr
Person A: I hate it when you say things like you weren't smart at the time and have grown up and made a better decision... It's insulting to other people making the same decisions you made when you weren't smart, implying they're stupid.
Me: I'm speaking for me and me alone. Stop personalizing and applying my experience to yourself or other people. I never once said they, them, we, us, or you. Now here's a statement you can take personally: You're a terrible listener. Do you see the difference?

Ti-valuing vs. Te-valuing:
Person A: I don't have right things, I have reasons (comment made during a podcast).
Me: Screw your reasons, if they aren't right (immediate thought in my head).

Te-valuing: @redbaron - Listening to someone's "music" instead of their words makes no sense to me.
I MUCH prefer the clear communication style of Te. I don't know about other IEEs but I'm a walking encyclopedia, but I don't understand half of it. Knowing and understanding are 2 different things. Te doesn't just know, it understands and explains in perfect form. This IEE doesn't want or need any fluff, in fact, if you present information to me with fluff I'm automatically suspicious of it. I feel it's unnecessary and manipulative. Others can think the SLI business like approach in conversation is uncomfortable, but my antennae immediately goes up and I'm all ears. I don't want just another opinion based on a personal and biased set of rules... aka "reasons." Screw reasons. I want THE rules and no type does a better job of providing them than an SLI, imo.

Redbaron is SEE

[Mercuria]

Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
I read somewhere in a description of IEIs that you shouldn't listen to our words, but to our music. I just adore that description. It's all in the way we communicate. And that's how I see Fe. I talk with people to understand them, and when we talk, the words are just part of how I understand them.
[QUOTE=redbaron;462620]Exactly! You said this so well. I had this SEI friend and we would talk about all sorts of things but the content of our conversations was nearly unimportant compared to everything else, the tone, the body language, eye movements, facial expressions, etc.

That's fine. SEEs are cool. We just have different perspectives.