Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Benefit relations, temperament and 8th function

  1. #1
    07490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    there
    Posts
    3,047
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Benefit relations, temperament and 8th function

    These relations are asymmetrical. One partner, called the Benefactor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Beneficiary.

    The Beneficiary thinks of the Benefactor as an interesting and meaningful person, usually over-evaluating them in the beginning. The Beneficiary can be impressed and delighted by their partner's behaviour, manners, thoughts and their ability to easily deal with things that the Beneficiary conceives as complicated. When partners are together, the Beneficiary involuntarily starts to ingratiate themselves with the Benefactor, trying to please them without any obvious reason. In the worst cases this starts from little things and then becomes bigger until the Beneficiary realises the foolishness of their situation.

    The Beneficiary can see the weakness of the Benefactor, wishing to help their partner to strengthen themselves. Because the strongest point of the Beneficiary is the weak and unconscious point of the Benefactor, the Beneficiary is convinced that they are able to help. However, when the Beneficiary tries to help, the Benefactor usually refuses the help without any good explanation. The Beneficiary usually listens to every word the Benefactor says but there is no feedback, the Benefactor can not hear the Beneficiary. This may be sometimes unpleasant and even irritating for the Beneficiary.

    The Benefactor accepts the Beneficiary as somebody who is lower in rank or social position and often undervalues them in the beginning. The reason for this is that the Benefactor feels that the Beneficiary needs something from them, that special something that only the Benefactor can provide. Therefore the Benefactor naturally finds themselves in an advanced position in respect to the Beneficiary, but are at the same time willing to encourage and take care of the Beneficiary.

    Relations of Benefit may appear even and conflict free. Usually it is the Benefactor who initiates the contact. Partners can even feel some kind of spiritual connection between them. However, relations last only as long as the Benefactor has something to give and the Beneficiary has need of it. If this major condition is no longer fulfilled, relations enter quite an unpleasant stage of their development. The Beneficiary may begin ignoring the Benefactor completely or they may start to accentuate too many of the Benefactors inability, provoking arguments and quarrels. Finally, when the Benefactor is in a superior position to the Beneficiary, it can work quite well, but not when it is the other way round!



    I think we all know benefit relationsip is becuase of the 6th functions... but i sepculate that the 8th function also has something to do with benefit relationship. The part where it say the beneficary admire the benefactor because they can easily deal with things that they deem complciated. I certainly believe the 8th functions plays a curical role becuase of an opposite temperment. EJ vs Ep or Ij vs Ip. I also believe that we actually like to use our 8th function more often but our creative funtions dominates more and are more natural to us. so benefactor can easily use it combine with their creative function which is the beneficary's dual function. Why do i benefit ENTp and not ESTp, I do pay attention to ENTp and listen to every word they say more often that ESTp which is my activity parnter. while they both have Ti as creative, I find some but not all entp quite interesting compare to ESTp where i just them being fun to hang out with and joke around and have a good time. ENTp tends to be more abstract.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

  2. #2
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpiazza000 View Post
    The part where it say the beneficary admire the benefactor because they can easily deal with things that they deem complciated.
    I would reason that this points to the benefactors 2nd function which is the benefeciairy's 5th (dual seeking) function.

    Duals also admire eachother because of the dual seeking function (and ease of handling).


    Could that be right?

  3. #3
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hostage_Child View Post
    I dunno, but all I know is that my beneficiary hates my guts for reasons unknown. Is that normal?
    hating is abnormal.

    although it is normal that they:
    - Ignore you
    - undervalue you
    - see you as an uninteresting person

  4. #4
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    bring back your old avatar
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  5. #5
    07490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    there
    Posts
    3,047
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    bring back your old avatar
    are you saying I am ugly?
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

  6. #6
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hostage_Child View Post
    You got it the other way around.
    Ah you're right, sorry mixed things up a bit.

    Let's see, then it's quite strange that he/she hates you indeed.

    Normally they look up to you. I've never experienced anything slightly hate related from my beneficiery.

  7. #7
    unefille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    841
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm not fond of my benefactor either, though we get along well enough -- I feel they're overly fond of me. It's possible that they're simply wielding their effusive praise in order to 'encourage' me to be more Si+Fe; instead I just want them to go away with their creepy, over the top ass-kissing. I'm much more critical of their faults; they almost uniformly ignore mine. It's possible that if they were in fact in a position that I acknowledged as 'superior', my attitude would change and I would appreciate their effusive compliments as encouraging tokens.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,687
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    I'm not fond of my benefactor either, though we get along well enough -- I feel they're overly fond of me. It's possible that they're simply wielding their effusive praise in order to 'encourage' me to be more Si+Fe; instead I just want them to go away with their creepy, over the top ass-kissing. I'm much more critical of their faults; they almost uniformly ignore mine. It's possible that if they were in fact in a position that I acknowledged as 'superior', my attitude would change and I would appreciate their effusive compliments as encouraging tokens.
    isn't it usually described the other way around? the beneficiary over-evaluating the benefactor?

  9. #9
    unefille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    841
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    isn't it usually described the other way around? the beneficiary over-evaluating the benefactor?
    I feel I have a pretty 'socionically well-described' relationship with SEEs; and it's very different than my relationships with ILEs; I just don't think the 'benefactor-beneficiary' description, as it is written, necessary accurately captures my relation with them.

    For instance, I feel more 'in control' with SEEs and a lot less in control with ILEs. In fact, around ILEs, I feel somewhat subdued and 'diminished' and I resent that sort of relation. It's so much that they're ALWAYS so IMPRESSED by everything I do that it's incredibly insulting to my intelligence and I think they're puzzled as to why I don't respond positively to their effusive positivism toward me, whilst I just find that effusive positivism patronising and infuriating.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

  10. #10
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpiazza
    I think we all know benefit relationsip is becuase of the 6th functions... but i sepculate that the 8th function also has something to do with benefit relationship. The part where it say the beneficary admire the benefactor because they can easily deal with things that they deem complciated. I certainly believe the 8th functions plays a curical role becuase of an opposite temperment. EJ vs Ep or Ij vs Ip. I also believe that we actually like to use our 8th function more often but our creative funtions dominates more and are more natural to us. so benefactor can easily use it combine with their creative function which is the beneficary's dual function. Why do i benefit ENTp and not ESTp, I do pay attention to ENTp and listen to every word they say more often that ESTp which is my activity parnter. while they both have Ti as creative, I find some but not all entp quite interesting compare to ESTp where i just them being fun to hang out with and joke around and have a good time. ENTp tends to be more abstract.
    It has to do with the dual-seeking and estimating functions. Your benefactor has your dual-seeking function as their creative function, meaning that they don't value it on such a consistent basis as will your dual and semi-duals. In this way, they can appear to have a "key" of sorts, which you admire, but which they sort of shrug off. You [the beneficiary] have their estimative function as your base, so while you are constantly assessing things through this lens, they only want help with that function to a degree (we seek competence in the estimative), thus get annoyed by your attempts to 'help' them after a while.

    And you're the ENTp's beneficiary, not benefactor.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  11. #11
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpiazza000 View Post
    are you saying I am ugly?
    No, lol, I didn't even assume that was you, even though the possibility did occur to me since the photo is webcam quality etc... but all I am saying is that I really liked your previous avatar.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  12. #12
    07490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    there
    Posts
    3,047
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    No, lol, I didn't even assume that was you, even though the possibility did occur to me since the photo is webcam quality etc... but all I am saying is that I really liked your previous avatar.
    haha yea I only say that as a joke
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

  13. #13
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Space
    TIM
    Seer
    Posts
    12,805
    Mentioned
    367 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)

    Default

    I admire ESI's because they are good at everything I suck at, and they inspire me to be a better person because of it. They are always so clean and neatly organized with everything about them. They seem so polished and put together; elegantly proper and and beautifully dressed (I'm not kidding, the people with the best style are always ESI's). They are strongly ambitious people who are great at finishing and fulfilling what they set out to do. When they start something they always accomplish in finishing it, and they never seem to leave things sitting around for later. They have such a strong will, and they never allow anyone to stomp on their toes or bullshit them. They're almost too perfect at what they do... I hate it, haha.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  14. #14
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpiazza000 View Post
    haha yea I only say that as a joke
    you're cool
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  15. #15
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    It has to do with the dual-seeking and estimating functions. Your benefactor has your dual-seeking function as their creative function, meaning that they don't value it on such a consistent basis as will your dual and semi-duals. In this way, they can appear to have a "key" of sorts, which you admire, but which they sort of shrug off. You [the beneficiary] have their estimative function as your base, so while you are constantly assessing things through this lens, they only want help with that function to a degree (we seek competence in the estimative), thus get annoyed by your attempts to 'help' them after a while.
    I support this explanation :-)

  16. #16
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Your benefactor will have your 8th function as their base function and your 5th function as their 2nd function.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  17. #17
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Your benefactor will have your PoLR as their DS, therefore the weakness they want help with, you don't even acknowledge.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  18. #18
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    I dunno, but all I know is that my beneficiary hates my guts for reasons unknown. Is that normal?
    Its not strange. Watch the movie private parts with and about Howard Stern. Howard(ESTp) has to work for a boss at the radio station who is ENTj. His boss is always pwning him and telling Howard what to do and never trusts howard to do hiw own thing so finally Howard venges himself on his boss by degreading him on the radio and finally destroying his postion and his career.

    This is actually very typical and illustrative of benefit relations since the benficiary feels incompetent towards the benefactor.

  19. #19
    crazedrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    moon
    Posts
    4,885
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    except howard stern is not ESTp, numbers beneficiary is not ENTp assuming he is ENFj, and numbers is infact ENFp.
    INTp

  20. #20
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratXII View Post
    except howard stern is not ESTp
    says you

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •