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Thread: Possible explanation to subtypes and method for identification

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Default Possible explanation to subtypes and method for identification

    Socionics acknowledges that we can use all functions, not only the ones we prefer. It doesn't explain, though, the mechanism we use for it.

    I think that it is possible, but very difficult, to exchange our preferred functions for those in our super ego. It generally happens only one function at a time, though.

    For example, an ESI Fi subtype:

    * Can exchange Se for Ne for short periods of time.
    * Oscillates between ESI and EII.

    The other (Se) subtype:

    * Can exchange Fi for Ti for short periods of time.
    * Oscillates between ESI and SLE.

    The point here is that if a function is preferred, it remains as dominant when it partners with another to form a loop. So even while in theory Se is weaker than Fi in an ESI, it becomes dominant if Se partners with Ti because it's still preferred.

    This causes a switch of temperament sometimes, which could be used to determine the subtype. All base subtypes remain in the same temperament, while creative subtypes switch it at times.

    I know many SLIs. The Te subtypes can be well explained through the oscillation between SLI and LIE. The Si subtypes oscillate between SLI and SEI.
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    has anyone else experienced this? personally, sometimes I think my surface behaviors are like IEE. Lately, I have considered Ti subtype but not really anything I couldn't explain some other way.

    I don't understand why "it becomes dominant if Se partners with Ti because it's still preferred." Why wouldn't behavior become like an Se subtype ISTj? An Se subtype ISTj's most preferred function would still be Se. If you're working theoretically, you need to keep the same conditions throughout. A "preferred function" - your subtype function, should remain either the one you use more in the same temperament or else it should mean the one that's taken as dominant.

    I think you will have to say more about how the "strength" or "weakness" of a function in the ego or the superego plays out with your idea. Like, Ti is weaker than both Se and Fi so when ISFj uses Ti it must take the weaker role, and the weaker role would be the producing function.. though i dont see why that would be.

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    and does this also work for, the super id? Like what would an Ne subtype INTj be when using Fe? etc.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    I don't understand why "it becomes dominant if Se partners with Ti because it's still preferred." Why wouldn't behavior become like an Se subtype ISTj? An Se subtype ISTj's most preferred function would still be Se.
    No, that's a mistake. The preferred function of an LSI is always Ti, regardless of subtype. It's not a matter of strength. What subtype denotes is the existence of some "pivot" that allows the mind to "rotate" in some direction.

    In simple terms, types are not static. Supposing that your natural way of being belongs to the alpha quadra, then your subtype determines whether you turn toward beta or toward delta when you switch functions.

    Contrary to a computer the brain has no "restart" button. So the changes must happen gradually if the conscience is to be preserved. That's why one of the preferred functions must remain active and in charge; otherwise the mind would lose track of it's previous state.

    In other words, the strength of functions is preserved; it's just a matter of being active or inactive. In an ESI, Ti is always weaker than Se, so it becomes SLE instead of LSI. ESI-Fi is Gamma-Delta and ESI-Se is Gamma-Beta.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Socionics acknowledges that we can use all functions, not only the ones we prefer. It doesn't explain, though, the mechanism we use for it.

    I think that it is possible, but very difficult, to exchange our preferred functions for those in our super ego. It generally happens only one function at a time, though.

    For example, an ESI Fi subtype:

    * Can exchange Se for Ne for short periods of time.
    * Oscillates between ESI and EII.

    The other (Se) subtype:

    * Can exchange Fi for Ti for short periods of time.
    * Oscillates between ESI and SLE.

    The point here is that if a function is preferred, it remains as dominant when it partners with another to form a loop. So even while in theory Se is weaker than Fi in an ESI, it becomes dominant if Se partners with Ti because it's still preferred.

    This causes a switch of temperament sometimes, which could be used to determine the subtype. All base subtypes remain in the same temperament, while creative subtypes switch it at times.

    I know many SLIs. The Te subtypes can be well explained through the oscillation between SLI and LIE. The Si subtypes oscillate between SLI and SEI.
    Absolutely! I think you are 95% right. For the most part exactly what i think. I dont know how cerain you are of the double introvert position vs the scenario of mixed introvert / extrovert in your example. This, though, is the kind of logic i've been using for some time. How would you describe your own tendancies with the Ne subtype designation?
    ENTP:wink:ALPHA

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    Quote Originally Posted by kensi View Post
    I dont know how cerain you are of the double introvert position vs the scenario of mixed introvert / extrovert in your example. This, though, is the kind of logic i've been using for some time. How would you describe your own tendancies with the Ne subtype designation?
    To decide you must have an unprejudiced notion of what being extrovert/introvert truly mean. It has very little to do with the level of social interaction.

    As a Ne subtype IEE, I can tell you that I'm usually rather aloof. While I know a lot of people, I can count my friends with the fingers of a hand. And this has nothing to do with me being unsocial; rather, that I'm extremely abstract. Extroversion manifests itself in that I have difficulty thinking alone: my best ideas usually come to me when I'm having a conversation with another person. I'm also reactive more than proactive when it comes about generating ideas.

    In the case of IEE, the Fi subtype is more social. Not because it's more extroverted, but because it has a higher preference for sensing. All intuitives behave introverted in some way.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

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