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Thread: If this is Alpha Fe, I'm turning Gamma :-/

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    Default If this is Alpha Fe, I'm turning Gamma :-/


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    Come to Delta, we have cookies!
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    You know what, this might sound a little crazy, but this actually looks like some playful attempt at
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post


    Come to Delta, we have cookies!
    ... and white picket fences! :-/

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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    You know what, this might sound a little crazy, but this actually looks like some playful attempt at
    The air punching is Se? (c:

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    Come one, come all.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    The air punching is Se? (c:
    That's part of it. The aggressive style of the song he was playing, a lot of dissonance, choppiness, aggressive scales, etc etc.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    That's part of it. The aggressive style of the song he was playing, a lot of dissonance, choppiness, aggressive scales, etc etc.
    Oh that's bull. (If anything, it's Fe+Si.)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Idk ... I think this describes a Fe approach to performance. How he says that there should be nothing artificial about your performance ... should fly straight from your heart ... should be like you're improvising.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Idk ... I think this describes a Fe approach to performance. How he says that there should be nothing artificial about your performance ... should fly straight from your heart ... should be like you're improvising.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9z97blOMQk
    This still sounds to me. Everything he is talking about is about being direct with no fluff, coming directly from the heart with no filter. It makes no mention about affecting anything in the emotional atmosphere or how it would impact other people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    This still sounds to me. Everything he is talking about is about being direct with no fluff, coming directly from the heart with no filter. It makes no mention about affecting anything in the emotional atmosphere or how it would impact other people.
    That makes sense. Maybe he's EIE? I guess the way he expresses his emotions doesn't seem very Si. Check out this one ... from 4:10. Turkey move at 6:12 lol. I'd think Si would be more aware of how they're coming across with the gestures and things?

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    I've always thought that Lang Lang was EIE E3, from what I've read of him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    I've always thought that Lang Lang was EIE E3, from what I've read of him.
    What have you read about him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    What have you read about him?
    I can't find the articles about him that I read a few weeks ago now, but the overall impression I got was a personality that was very concerned with self-expression yes, but also with his own personal journey, his personal experience. Look at the way he packages himself - it's not just about the commercialisation (which is an ambivalent point for me) but the way he creates himself -- it's not just about music, it's about HIM through the music. His personal story, recreated in the biopic aired in China is all about overcoming struggle. He seems particularly prone to writing himself, concerned with crafting his own personal narrative, one of overcoming obstacles and personal triumph (very Ni/Se themes), coupled with his showmanship. He's not at all shy about covering up the 'harsh' times he endured, but dramatises them, plays them up, even though it might sting his parents - again, a very Ni and Fe thing - it's almost a glorification/revelling in misery (which it isn't, it's just how we perceive our histories) -- and the way he focuses on the way in which this history is communicated, in the message -- that seems very EIE to me. Lang Lang is also very very flashy, not just in his performances, but in how he performs and in his attire - his clothing is chosen specifically to convey an internally crafted image, to be eye-catching and to bring across particular cultural associations. It's not so much an Si-awareness of appearances, but a very Fe+Ni image consciousness and focus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    I can't find the articles about him that I read a few weeks ago now, but the overall impression I got was a personality that was very concerned with self-expression yes, but also with his own personal journey, his personal experience. Look at the way he packages himself - it's not just about the commercialisation (which is an ambivalent point for me) but the way he creates himself -- it's not just about music, it's about HIM through the music. His personal story, recreated in the biopic aired in China is all about overcoming struggle. He seems particularly prone to writing himself, concerned with crafting his own personal narrative, one of overcoming obstacles and personal triumph (very Ni/Se themes), coupled with his showmanship. He's not at all shy about covering up the 'harsh' times he endured, but dramatises them, plays them up, even though it might sting his parents - again, a very Ni and Fe thing - it's almost a glorification/revelling in misery (which it isn't, it's just how we perceive our histories) -- and the way he focuses on the way in which this history is communicated, in the message -- that seems very EIE to me. Lang Lang is also very very flashy, not just in his performances, but in how he performs and in his attire - his clothing is chosen specifically to convey an internally crafted image, to be eye-catching and to bring across particular cultural associations. It's not so much an Si-awareness of appearances, but a very Fe+Ni image consciousness and focus.
    Good points. (c: Thanks for that.

    You're EIE, aren't you? Do you relate to him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Good points. (c: Thanks for that.

    You're EIE, aren't you? Do you relate to him?
    I relate to his preferences in music:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lang Lang
    I prefer something with lots of emotion, with lots of colors and lots of melodies. The Russian classics. Some of Mozart and Beethoven's early works, Chopin, Liszt. They're the ones I play most often.
    To him as a person - somewhat, yes. I relate to the compulsive need to write yourself. He also comes across as somewhat demanding in his interaction with students he's done master-classes with -- his interaction there (reading about it), I recognise as well. He also has a certain...nonchalance? ambivalence? (I can't find the word I'm looking for) I relate to. Some musicians make it seem as though music is the only thing they can imagine themselves doing; the only thing they have a passion for; their only avenue and that they're so lucky to be doing something they love. I don't get that feeling from him. Instead he seems to have an attitude I relate to almost too much -- it's not that he doesn't love music and piano, but that his interests are not so limited and it's just music that he happened to end up pursuing, through various circumstances, and since he's in that situation, he might as well as do it as well as possible, to the best of his ability and bring everything to the endeavour.
    Last edited by unefille; 11-02-2008 at 07:35 AM.
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    I act like that all the time with music, EIE-NI 3W2
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    lol, when I watched the video I was really compelled. I couldn't post until I had seen the entire video. I absolutely love how this guy expresses his thoughts and inner feelings with music - how his mind just turns into notes and melody. Lovely. And the choppy forceful style is indeed Se valuing. But his face is extremely expressionate IMO, so I don't think he's ISTj. For some reason I didn't even consider ESTp and INFp. He's somehow too direct for that. I had never heard of him before. Just after the first video, I would type him as EIE.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I have no idea what type he is, but I really don't understand what was wrong with his approach?? Why don't people like him? He seems genuine...? Funny even...

    I probably wouldn't act like him unless I was extremely passionate about something, but what's wrong in being passionate?
    Nothing - I'm sure he's sincere....

    Idk - his performance style just turns me off. I have to close my eyes. :-/

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    so everytime I throw my arm in the air I'm an Se type, and when I'm making funny faces I'm an Fe type?

    aha I get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    so everytime I throw my arm in the air I'm an Se type, and when I'm making funny faces I'm an Fe type?

    aha I get it.
    That's not what I said if that's what you're insinuating wrt the stuff.
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    According to Augusta you only show your ego functions to the outside world.

    If this is for example an FeSi type, he throws his arms in the air in an Fe/Si manner.

    Labeling every different word or movement a person makes with another function, sounds to me the same as:

    When you have a fight in your relationship, calling the relationship a conflict relation and when you kiss and make up, say that you are in a dual relation.

    correct me if I'm wrong or have misread anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    According to Augusta you only show your ego functions to the outside world.

    If this is for example an FeSi type, he throws his arms in the air in an Fe/Si manner.

    Labeling every different word or movement a person makes with another function, sounds to me the same as:

    When you have a fight in your relationship, calling the relationship a conflict relation and when you kiss and make up, say that you are in a dual relation.

    correct me if I'm wrong or have misread anything.
    Here is Rick's commentary about Model A in this regard

    http://socionist.blogspot.com/search/label/Model%20A

    Ego
    Enjoyable to experience (fun to be in this environment)
    Easy to use (doesn't require much conscious effort or "willpower" to focus on)
    Prone to burnout (gets stuck in a rut and become overworked)
    Normal state of mind (what a person is usually like when interacting with others)
    Very high endurance (functions can easily effectively be used for hours at a time)
    High initiative (person foresees problems in these areas and manages them in advance)
    High tolerance (can handle being exposed to these types of information for a long period of time)
    Likes to talk (about things from the perspective of these kinds of information)
    Thinks openly (involves other people in thinking/experiencing process)
    Likes to do (turns talk into action)
    Likes to lead (sets the tone in these areas for others)
    Doesn't like to follow (others' initiative without adding new initiatives of one's own)

    Super-Ego
    A strain to experience
    Hard to use
    Tense state of mind
    Low endurance
    Low initiative
    Low tolerance
    Doesn't like to talk
    Thinks to oneself
    Doesn't like to lead
    Doesn't like to follow

    Super-Id
    Enjoyable to experience
    Medium-hard to use
    Prone to neglect
    Regenerative state of mind
    Medium-high endurance
    Medium-high tolerance
    Likes to talk
    Doesn't think
    Likes for others to do
    Doesn't like to lead
    Likes to follow

    Id
    A minor strain to experience
    Fairly easy to use
    Unusual ('weird') state of mind
    Medium endurance
    Medium tolerance
    Doesn't like to talk
    Doesn't think
    Likes to do briefly
    Likes to lead briefly
    Likes to follow briefly
    I think it is incorrect to say that those functions that appear in the Ego are the only ones that are shown to the outside world.

    The other blocks can visibly be shown (albeit in different aspects) to the outside world.

    My interpretation of the first video was, as I said before, a playful expression of like sentiments. I think Kristiina put it much better that lines up with what I feel about that, that it displays (in part) a valuing of . Is that the only element shown in that video? Of course not.

    I think the 3rd video in particular demonstrates clearly (and does to a degree in the other 2 videos) an ability to channel the energy and emotion of the music through his physical body. Now, if his motivation to do this is to draw a reaction from others, or if he is doing this to "match" the emotional content of the music he feels or if it is something else makes a difference from an information element standpoint.

    I think there's a clue in this from the 2nd video. When he talks about how performances should be expressed. I sensed in this, but I think there are aspects of in it as well as I thought about it some more. The composition itself is inciting this raw, unfiltered emotion from him. He is allowing himself to be carried by the very music he is performing.

    I think it's this aspect of raw, intense emotional movement points more towards Beta rather than Alpha in my opinion.
    INFj

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    this is awesome (c:


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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    I think the 3rd video in particular demonstrates clearly (and does to a degree in the other 2 videos) an ability to channel the energy and emotion of the music through his physical body. Now, if his motivation to do this is to draw a reaction from others, or if he is doing this to "match" the emotional content of the music he feels or if it is something else makes a difference from an information element standpoint.
    I think his motivation is to convey his emotional reactions to the music as honestly as possible.
    I think there's a clue in this from the 2nd video. When he talks about how performances should be expressed. I sensed in this, but I think there are aspects of in it as well as I thought about it some more. The composition itself is inciting this raw, unfiltered emotion from him. He is allowing himself to be carried by the very music he is performing.
    Yeah - I think that being confident enough to represent your emotions without feeling you have to filter them points to pretty strong Fe.
    I think it's this aspect of raw, intense emotional movement points more towards Beta rather than Alpha in my opinion.
    Yeah - I think Alpha Fe would more likely be interested in creating a character or something with their music. I think it would look less like riding an emotional wave (letting the music determine their emotions), and more like playing a character ... and letting the character express the emotions. So it goes through a creative filter first. Uh ... second thoughts ... maybe I'm talking about Fe as a secondary function as opposed to base. Idk.

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    hmm I'm confused, I thought Fe blocked with Si was more likely to manifest in a heart on sleeve, expressing emotions in the moment kind of way ... whereas Fe blocked with Ni manifests in a more crafted expression of emotion... or emotion withheld until the right time

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    hmm I'm confused, I thought Fe blocked with Si was more likely to manifest in a heart on sleeve, expressing emotions in the moment kind of way ... whereas Fe blocked with Ni manifests in a more crafted expression of emotion... or emotion withheld until the right time
    Yeah, I don't know now. :-/ I think I was describing Fe creative more than Alpha Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Yeah, I don't know now. :-/ I think I was describing Fe creative more than Alpha Fe.
    Yeah, me too. I can't see my mother, or any Fe-base, being that conscious or deliberate about their Fe. Seems much more Fe-creative to me -- I think in terms of what am I attempting to achieve here, but there isn't a 'creative filter'. It's much more direct and holistic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Yeah, me too. I can't see my mother, or any Fe-base, being that conscious or deliberate about their Fe. Seems much more Fe-creative to me -- I think in terms of what am I attempting to achieve here, but there isn't a 'creative filter'. It's much more direct and holistic.
    Hmm yeah. The filter thing for me is mainly about wanting to present things in a more interesting way. Maybe it's Ne-seeking? Not always - like in everyday situations - but with something like performing ... it feels more like a work of art then - rather than being what looks to me as just an expression of the obvious. Who's that interested in what I'm feeling anyway? (c: So you go to watch someone perform, and you're drawn into another world ... not just more of the same - reality. If you know what I mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    so everytime I throw my arm in the air I'm an Se type, and when I'm making funny faces I'm an Fe type?

    aha I get it.
    It's all in the nuances of body language. Some ESTps keep laughing and grinning all the time and they don't look a bit Fe dominant. Some INTps have really flappy hands that fly everywhere without any control, but it doesn't look at all like Se. However, someone punching the air with all their force just for the heck of it - now that's another story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Nothing - I'm sure he's sincere....

    Idk - his performance style just turns me off. I have to close my eyes. :-/
    I know what you mean. The redeeming factor for me is the grin in the end of the first video. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's not being embarrassing by accident, he just doesn't care that it looks odd.
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    I think this guy might be Fe creative (the violinist).



    That's more my style anyway. You can tell the emotion's genuine ... that the music is running through him ... but his focus seems to be on creating a mood or painting a picture rather than expressing himself. As the audience, you feel like you're watching someone playing for their own entertainment rather than actively trying to entertain you. That's the difference I see btwn Fe-creative and Fe-dominant performers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I think this guy might be Fe creative (the violinist).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQN5lep4rYk

    That's more my style anyway. You can tell the emotion's genuine ... that the music is running through him ... but his focus seems to be on creating a mood or painting a picture rather than expressing himself. As the audience, you feel like you're watching someone playing for their own entertainment rather than actively trying to entertain you. That's the difference I see btwn Fe-creative and Fe-dominant performers.
    Fe creatives have a way to take in the surrounding emotion and enhance it. So when an Fe creative looks like they're playing for their own entrertainment, they might as well be saying, "It's really enjoyable for me so it should be really enjoyable for you too.". I agree it's less direct than the Fe dominant way.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Lang Lang is also very very flashy, not just in his performances, but in how he performs and in his attire - his clothing is chosen specifically to convey an internally crafted image, to be eye-catching and to bring across particular cultural associations. It's not so much an Si-awareness of appearances, but a very Fe+Ni image consciousness and focus.
    INFj

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  35. #35
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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  36. #36
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    You get what I'm driving at though, right (with Liberace)?
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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    You get what I'm driving at though, right (with Liberace)?
    Eh ... no, sorry - I didn't know that was Liberace. :-/

    So what were you driving at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Eh ... no, sorry - I didn't know that was Liberace. :-/

    So what were you driving at?
    I was connecting what unefille was identifying as a characteristic of Lang Lang and illustrating a figure who had a very similar flair for such things - Liberace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    I was connecting what unefille was identifying as a characteristic of Lang Lang and illustrating a figure who had a very similar flair for such things - Liberace.
    Do you have an opinion on his type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Do you have an opinion on his type?
    ENFj sounds good to me.

    Edit: I suppose ESFj wouldn't be too bad of a typing either.
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