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Thread: Type His Behaviour

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    Default Type His Behaviour

    1. He lies, a lot - not to self-aggrandize (lol, he's not a 3) - but to make excuses for himself. He makes excuses for things that DO NOT NEED excuses, where the truth would work much better. He has an excuse for everything - 'my brother is in hospitable', 'my grandmother had a heart attack', 'there was a fire where I lived'. I always know he's lying - I suspect immediately. I've never been very good at taking people at face value in the first place - and he just sets my meter off. The thing is, his excuses don't anger me so much as they make me amused and disappointed. I'm not even sure if I'm disappointed because he lies a lot, or because he's so bad at it.

    What I mean by bad is -- he's a very convincing liar -- most of the time it's impossible to tell that he's lying at all -- even that's what so terrifying about him -- his pathological ease with lying. But he's bad (to me) at lying in the sense that he does it indiscriminately -- which means he's easy to catch out/set off alarm bells in people's heads. He doesn't seem to realise that people can track his behaviour and connect the dots and work out what's going on.

    2. The reason for his lying is because he commits to things that he then doesn't bother to carry through on. He's agreeable to a fault. He not only never says no to a request, but he always agrees in a way that is aimed to reassure the other person of his commitment.

    The difference between my overcommitment and his is that I will walk through coals to deliver what I've promised because I feel this sense of responsibility to other people that he doesn't seem concerned with. I think that he thinks everyone is just like him -- and they're using him to get things done as much as he is using them to get positions on particular boards and committees. Which is why...(next point)

    3. He's the ultimate 'self-interested man' - if homo economicus were real, he would embody it. He agrees to get involved in everything, but he often has no intention of actually doing anything -- he just wants the credit for it most of the time.

    An LIE who was on the same board as this guy and I for a while commented that this guy was 'very good at reading people'. He is. He is a very perceptive person. But it's not something I particularly value because hey - also my strength. Additionally, I think this guy shoots himself in the foot too often because he has a narrow conception of human nature - based on himself, probably.

    Just a few weeks ago, he tried to manipulate an LSE into giving a position on an executive board by outright lying about other people in order to bolster his own bargaining position. He did two things wrong: a) you can push the boundaries of what is ethical and what is not when negotiating, but you do not outright lie. That's just amatuer-ish and b) he completely misread the situation. He would have gotten much further with the LSE had he proven that he was competent and fit for the position and expressed an open and firm commitment. Stooping to manipulation was always going to backfire on him - he should have known that even without socionics - in my opinion, he should have been able to read her better than that.

    The only way to get him to work on something is to make sure it serves his interests. Otherwise, you're pretty much subject to his whims.

    4. I see him as somewhat 'lazy' -- for someone as overcommitted as he is -- he does remarkably little work. He needs someone literally standing behind him with a whip in order to get him to deliver on deadlines work that he's promised to carry out. His energy levels generally seem quite low and he comes across as very 'calm' and 'relaxed'. He doesn't expend energy for no 'good' reason and he seems to enjoy spending time alone, in a comfy couch, watching TV. Whilst I appreciate relaxation myself...(ok, Si PoLR, so that's actually a bit of a lie -- I don't really, but I do 'veg' out because I am human), he seems to seek to be relaxed and comfortable all the time. He's actually too lazy to catch public transport for instance and hasn't learnt to drive, depending on taxis instead. When he sits - he really 'sits'. He 'sinks in'.

    5. My personal opinion of him (which probably reveals a lot about me as a person) is that he's too short-sighted -- his behaviour is aimed at further his own 'goals' and to that end, he's very oriented to his own political 'career', but the way he behaves will eventually piss off most people -- Fi PoLRs seem to gel well with him though - his best friends are mostly ILEs -- and harm him, politically. He also isn't strategic and whilst he's aware of keeping people pleased and happy with him when he's in contact with them, he seems unaware of the long-term effect of his behaviour, nor the effect his way of behaving has on what people think of him when he's not around.

    I used to think he was IEI-Fe, but now I think he's SEI-Si, particularly because his weaknesses (to me) result from his present-orientation. He focuses so much on keeping people pleased 'right now' that he doesn't realise the consequences of his own appeasement -- which is why he can never deliver on his promises and then has to lie his way out of things.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by unefille; 10-15-2008 at 10:40 AM.
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    SEI-Si 9(w8) sp/so
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    SEI-Si 9(w8) sp/so
    Yeah, I was thinking he either has to be a 9w8 or a p6w5 so/sp. 9 because he's so 'appeasing', but I'm leaning toward so 6 because he just wants to be part of every 'institution' there is -- this weird need to be 'part of something'.

    Like, I just don't understand why he has to join every board, get involved in every initiative, and I can only get it as a form of security seeking.
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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I don't know about all that stuff Christy threw out, but SEI seems to work.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Relations of supervision between him and I is rather interesting.

    Also - might be type relevant, but mostly just makes me laugh - idolatrie calls him 'the Poster-boy for Male Rape', because he's so...passive and accommodating.

    I might be skewing the description a little bit - he's also very sharp and witty and a very good public speaker -- he has a very calm, listen-to-my-voice-of-reason, sort of manner. He's not big on the inspirational fireworks though, more toned down, ironic, laid-back, not trying too hard -- just better than you, by default, sort of flavour.
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  6. #6
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    It's difficult to get a lock based on the description, but ISxp seems most likely, probably ISFp, but he could be an outside chance of ISTp. If not ISTp, can I ask why you would rule it out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's difficult to get a lock based on the description, but ISxp seems most likely, probably ISFp, but he could be an outside chance of ISTp. If not ISTp, can I ask why you would rule it out?
    When I first met him, I did consider SLI, but overall, I ruled out Fe-PoLR because he seems quite adept in Fe. Te PoLR and Fe-ego makes more sense to me - he's incredibly affable and disarming - it's very difficult for people who are actively pissed off at him to express it because in person he seems so guileless. He knows how to say the right thing and feign the right countenance.

    Before he says anything critical about anyone, his first concern is to make sure that the people he's talking to aren't 'friends' with them. If he's adjudicating something, he will express to a fellow adjudicator that he thinks the speakers are crap, but will immediately change to 'you guys were great - you have a fantastic chance' -- and this isn't necessary because he's in the role of a 'coach' -- he's very anti-confrontational, will deny everything to your face, or behave in a way that makes it very difficult to remain angry at him without coming off as undignified and a little psychotic.

    His general attitude is 'it doesn't matter if its not a fact/true - all that matters is that people believe it is a fact/true.' It makes him a very good advocate and liar, but I think taken too far as he does, it's a dangerous attitude.
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  8. #8
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Yeah I think SEI makes more sense. I know I often can see 'the facts' as more important at times, which isn't what this guy is like. Thanks for that.

    Yeah I can see why it would be dangerous, it looks like his people skills serve him well..to a point..but maybe as you say-not if going too far with that alone.

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    It sounds like my SEI teammate, but to a much lesser degree with the lying. This part I relate to very well:

    I see him as somewhat 'lazy' -- for someone as overcommitted as he is -- he does remarkably little work. He needs someone literally standing behind him with a whip in order to get him to deliver on deadlines work that he's promised to carry out. His energy levels generally seem quite low and he comes across as very 'calm' and 'relaxed'. He doesn't expend energy for no 'good' reason and he seems to enjoy spending time alone, in a comfy couch, watching TV. Whilst I appreciate relaxation myself...(ok, Si PoLR, so that's actually a bit of a lie -- I don't really, but I do 'veg' out because I am human), he seems to seek to be relaxed and comfortable all the time. He's actually too lazy to catch public transport for instance and hasn't learnt to drive, depending on taxis instead. When he sits - he really 'sits'. He 'sinks in'.
    My friend mentions on occasion how other people have done work for him where he has taken the credit. When he talks about this it always is done with a sense of "pride," as if it were 'cool' to have other people do your own work. Also he has a huge ego at times and does seem to treat some people as being inferior, ironically, when they are too lazy.

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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    ILE IMO.

    Narrow conception of human nature, misreading political situations, comes off as lying slimy bastard and very self interested all points to a lack of Fi and devaluing of Fi. It also makes him unlikely to be in Delta or Gamma, who IME try to promote themselves as 'good honest human beings' in some way or another.

    The laziness, agreeableness and false promises is IMO connected to having little Se, you describe him as almost flakey, anti-confrontational and unreliable which is the impression some Ne leading ppl may give off.

    I don't get that impression for ISFps, they seem more cheerful and compliant to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    ILE IMO.

    Narrow conception of human nature, misreading political situations, comes off as lying slimy bastard and very self interested all points to a lack of Fi and devaluing of Fi. It also makes him unlikely to be in Delta or Gamma, who IME try to promote themselves as 'good honest human beings' in some way or another.

    The laziness, agreeableness and false promises is IMO connected to having little Se, you describe him as almost flakey, anti-confrontational and unreliable which is the impression some Ne leading ppl may give off.

    I don't get that impression for ISFps, they seem more cheerful and compliant to me.
    I agree with this.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    My friend mentions on occasion how other people have done work for him where he has taken the credit. When he talks about this it always is done with a sense of "pride," as if it were 'cool' to have other people do your own work. Also he has a huge ego at times and does seem to treat some people as being inferior, ironically, when they are too lazy.
    He doesn't brag about it actually - he just feigns having put in as much work as everyone else. He simply denies having not contributed - basing on the fact that if we're too polite to confront him, it's all ok. There have been multiple situations where crises have happened and his recommendation is invariable: LIE.

    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    ILE IMO.

    Narrow conception of human nature, misreading political situations, comes off as lying slimy bastard and very self interested all points to a lack of Fi and devaluing of Fi. It also makes him unlikely to be in Delta or Gamma, who IME try to promote themselves as 'good honest human beings' in some way or another.

    The laziness, agreeableness and false promises is IMO connected to having little Se, you describe him as almost flakey, anti-confrontational and unreliable which is the impression some Ne leading ppl may give off.

    I don't get that impression for ISFps, they seem more cheerful and compliant to me.
    I think whatever type he is, he's an unusual specimen of that type.

    He is flakey, but my other SEI friend flake on me as well - they just don't lie about everything the way he does -- which seems to go back to a narrow conception of human nature which may indicate Fi PoLR.

    I have considered ILE for him, particularly because of his facile attitude toward the truth. But I am struggling a little to see Ne-leading. I'll post more about him outside of his awful behaviour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    He doesn't brag about it actually - he just feigns having put in as much work as everyone else. He simply denies having not contributed - basing on the fact that if we're too polite to confront him, it's all ok. There have been multiple situations where crises have happened and his recommendation is invariable: LIE.



    I think whatever type he is, he's an unusual specimen of that type.

    He is flakey, but my other SEI friend flake on me as well - they just don't lie about everything the way he does -- which seems to go back to a narrow conception of human nature which may indicate Fi PoLR.
    Punch him every time he lies.

    I have considered ILE for him, particularly because of his facile attitude toward the truth. But I am struggling a little to see Ne-leading. I'll post more about him outside of his awful behaviour.
    Tell him to go fuck himself.

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    1. He hums music a lot. As he's sitting, he'll just humming. He can be quite fidgety - if he's sitting, he'll play with paper and tear it up into little pieces.

    2. His politeness is verging on pathology, but he's also avoidant and can be rude. This sort irregularity in his behaviour is what throws people off. One moment they think he's really polite and thus all the times he failed to return calls/emails must have been a mistake. Then he does it again. Somtimes it's based on 'who do I absolutely need to NOT piss off in order to get by' and sometimes it's more 'can I lie about this and fix it later? Ok, cool.'

    3. He has a tendency to ask questions and just 'drill' information out of people.

    4. He prefers to work alone - or if we're in a group, he prefers to work facing away from everyone else. Idolatrie, me, an ESI we know - when in the same environment and we need to get work done, we just tune out absolutely. He seems to need to remove himself from other people in order to do that.

    5. His plans for retirement include gardening and 'pottering around'. This is very strange [to me] for a guy who hasn't done a single day of manual labour and the most strenous thing he has ever encountered was probably walking the dog regularly.

    I'm sure some of his behaviour is background related - he's from a very wealthy and well-connected family and he's gone of his way to use these connections to get himself into every 'in' there possibly prestige attached to. Quite a few of ExTjs are confused by him and think of him as a bit of a pox - but the only other person I know who actually has the same take as I do on his behaviour is another EIE. the ExTjs think he's chronically unreliable and are sort of confused as to why - the EIE and I are able to pin down this guy's behaviour almost to a T. And it is a source of frustrated amusement for both of us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Punch him every time he lies.

    Tell him to go fuck himself.
    lol
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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    lol
    I'm serious.

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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    He hums music a lot. As he's sitting, he'll just humming. He can be quite fidgety - if he's sitting, he'll play with paper and tear it up into little pieces.

    His politeness is verging on pathology, but he's also avoidant and can be rude. This sort irregularity in his behaviour is what throws people off.
    I'm still thinking ILE.

    The general flakiness, un-serious and affable politeness thing; along with his cute interests (gardening etc.) all IMO point to Ne leading.

    It's the same impression I get from Slackermom's posts (which happens to remind me a lot of Alan Greenspan's autobiography), they all have this unimportant and small feel to them (infantile).

    But anyway that's where I'm getting the Ne from.

    And I'm still standing by the Fi PoLR explaination.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    ISFj?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    I'm still thinking ILE.

    The general flakiness, un-serious and affable politeness thing; along with his cute interests (gardening etc.) all IMO point to Ne leading.

    It's the same impression I get from Slackermom's posts (which happens to remind me a lot of Alan Greenspan's autobiography), they all have this unimportant and small feel to them (infantile).

    But anyway that's where I'm getting the Ne from.

    And I'm still standing by the Fi PoLR explaination.
    Mmk, Alpha irrational is probably very likely.

    Fwiw, he looks like David Cameron (UK Tory leader), but less...strung up.

    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    ISFj?
    Really?
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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Why not?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



  21. #21
    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Why not?
    Low Se, clearly devalued Fi.
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