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Thread: Type this convo by body language

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Default Type this convo by body language

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN0rANP4nso[/ame]

    MvN: Matthijs van Nieuwkerk (long haired, blong guy)
    PRdV: Peter R. de Vries (short haired, greying)

    Background: MvN briefly touches on PRdV's new biography as the finale of his show, when PRdV interrupts him with the open confrontation that the two had agreed to have the book discussed in more detail than it had just been by MvN. MvN struggles to get out of this commitment and tries to fix the situation by offering PRdV to advertise his book himself, which gets the "that's not what we're going to do" reaction. MvN further fumbles the issue by offering to discuss the agreement after the show. PRdV does not yield an inch, but MvN does end up closing the show without offering more detail on the book, either playing dumb as to the arrangement that was made, or just being perfectly honest that there never was one.

    MvN right after PRdV's confrontation: "Kijk me niet zo boos aan!" - "Don't give me that angry look!"
    PRdV: "well no, I just don't find that 'correct'." (correct is used in dutch in the capacity of "behaviorally right")

    PRdV: "The arrangement is all in print."
    MvN: "Have I signed anything?"
    PRdV: "Your producer has."

    MvN: "This is extraordinary. Why this punishment? What have I..."
    PRdV: "You can act around all you want..."
    MvN: "I am not acting!"

    At the end:
    MvN: "Let's just end this. This isn't suited for television."
    Last edited by krieger; 10-07-2008 at 05:35 PM.

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    grey haired guy: Ti-ISTj
    long haired guy: Ne-ENTp
    girl: either Fe-ISFp or Si-ESFj
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    long haired guy: Ne-ENTp
    Interesting suggestion. Personally I don't think he's nearly "obnoxious" enough (as in, Fi PoLR; MvN tends to be incredibly polite and diplomatic), nor intellectually creative enough (he's a show host in pretty conservative style, nothing new really), to be an ENTp. Jan Jaap van der Wal (long haired blond in the video below) is a confirmed dutch ENTp as far as I'm concerned, and he doesn't compare too well with MvN.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogw1jHcmwCY[/ame]

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    I agree
    old guy ISTj.
    Young guy ENFp or ESFp. I'm leaning toward ESFp.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I think he's (MvN) an ESFj. What are seeing in him that makes you think irrational? IMO he is very stable and predictable, really just out to please his guests and accomodate for them (this "gaffe" being something of an exception ), not trying to do randomly interesting (shocking) things at all.

    As for Peter R., yes ISTj is the obvious choice and I see no reason to challenge it. INTj is the only conceivable alternative. I think Paul Witteman (see the video with Jan Jaap van der Wal; he is the short gray haired host on the right in the suit) is a better example of an INTj, though.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Of the Ep types I would be much more inclined to pick ENFp than ENTp or any Se dominant type. But I still don't see what warrants such a typing.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-AIThqYMms[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKvAjRkP4eo&feature=related[/ame]
    (SKIP TO: 0:35)

    Hans Kraaij junior is a dutch ENFp... I'm not convinced by the similarity.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    More footage of Mattijs van Nieuwkerk:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1lZLd5pNXA[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw0zR-qsoaQ[/ame]

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8-DSLw2A0Q&feature=related[/ame]

    Matthijs van Nieuwkerk in discussion with another person that I think is Fe dominant: the ENFj Freek de Jonge.

    There is some awkwardness between the two that could be interpreted as Si/Ni PoLR pounding...

    As for Mark Marie Huijbrechts: probably a better example of ESFp. MvN is nothing like him. MMH reminds a lot of this guy (who I have typed ESFp earlier):
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN3J-B5dgDM[/ame]
    Last edited by krieger; 10-09-2008 at 12:49 AM.

  10. #10
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    BUMP!

    MvN: stereotypical SEE womanizer.

    ETA: the video with Peter R. de Vries no longer works, but I remember it from the past. To me it's very clear Peter R. de Vries has the upper hand, leaving Matthijs van Nieuwkerk cornered. This would not have happened if van Nieuwkerk really was IEE, he would have dealt Ne-PoLR blows in return. LSI-SEE Supervision (de Vries being the supervisor) makes more sense to me. (and of course, fits my understanding of them being LSI and SEE respectively way better )
    Last edited by consentingadult; 04-16-2010 at 12:19 PM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Just watched the Freek de Jonge video. I have always considered Freek LII (!), I think his wife Hella is his dual. What one needs to know, is that de Jonge's father was a protestant minister, which in my opinion explains de Jonge's over-the-top Calvinistic style moralism, expressed as Fi-role. Especially in his 70-ties and 80-ties performances. I also think the dialogue between Freek and Matthijs is pretty balanced, it's awkward, but neither of them gets the upper hand (or MvN has it slightly, because he's supported by MMH).

    Another thing about de Jonge: in the 70-80-ties, he was the godfather of dutch comedy, but in the past 20 years he's lost that position to others. He's quite a dinosaur and his attitude still is very much 70-ties leftist moralism. My gut feeling says he's quite angry for not having a central stage position anymore, and he increasingly gets more critical (in an unauthentic sense) about the world around him. This makes him an easy target for people like van Nieuwkerk, whatever their types.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 04-16-2010 at 12:54 PM. Reason: typos
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    You type princess Maxima as ESFp too, right? I type both her and MvN as ESFj, so it looks like we are in general disagreement about these two types.

    In my opinion, what is defining about both Maxima and MvN's character is their ability to harmoniously adapt to- and blend into their social environment. They are very good at negotiating things socially and telling people what they want to hear.

    When you look at some ESFp profiles, you'll find they are known for something almost opposite to that: getting what they want regardless of how sensible it is to pursue the thing in question. That kind of thing makes me think of more of a Katja Schurman, Tatum & Jennifer and BNN's Nicolette Kluijver (BNN - bnnfaces - Nicolette kluijver BNN) kind of person.

    Quote Originally Posted by socioniko.net
    2. Restless activity, greed for practical actions. He never hides his feelings – en contraire, he takes special pride in them. It is easy for him to sound sincere, when he expresses his true feelings. He expresses his admiration both verbally and with a look in his eyes. He is always an adherent of love in all its aspects, both carnal and psychological, if he needs it. Even when a feeling is of a passing nature, he knows very well what he desires from his lover, has no intention to adapt – only to dictate. He is arrogant, optimistic, before a complicated situation he does not go shy but tries to resolve it immediately in a few decisive moves.
    4. Less nagging and more living! His life may be poisoned by the demands of those close to him to think his actions through, to act “rationally”. This is too much for him to withstand, such demands only make him want to act more irrationally, and brush reason aside altogether to spite everyone. In fact, he acts cleverly and logically until someone starts to demand of him to do so, i.e. as long as he is “respected” and “reckoned with”. It is useless to dispute his logic: one can influence him only by challenging him to set aside his goals in favor of other ones, more noble and harder attainable.

  13. #13
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    You type princess Maxima as ESFp too, right? I type both her and MvN as ESFj, so it looks like we are in general disagreement about these two types.

    In my opinion, what is defining about both Maxima and MvN's character is their ability to harmoniously adapt to- and blend into their social environment. They are very good at negotiating things socially and telling people what they want to hear.

    When you look at some ESFp profiles, you'll find they are known for something almost opposite to that: getting what they want regardless of how sensible it is to pursue the thing in question. That kind of thing makes me think of more of a Katja Schurman, Tatum & Jennifer and BNN's Nicolette Kluijver (BNN - bnnfaces - Nicolette kluijver BNN) kind of person.
    To be honest, I'm not impressed with the descriptions on socioniko.net. But anyway: imo, both MvN and Máxima do not show Fe (active approach in changing other people's emotions by sending out their own emotions), but they do show active Fi (active interest in other people and their feelings and stories, which makes these people feel understood and in turn makes them talk). Also healthy SEEs (like healthy IEEs) are capable of covering up their leading function (especially it's agenda), so most SEEs are goal-getters, but more in a covert way. MvN is known for being a womanizer, and of Máxima it's a public secret that she's after power and influence (both in serious media as well as in the dramatized series "Bernhard, Schavuit van Oranje").

    Of the other people you mention, I only know Katja Schuurmans, and I think it's pretty obvious she's SLE:



    Not only does she look like an SLE woman, I also do not see any Fi in her. No tact at all.

    Just my two cents.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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