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Thread: Ti/Fe Businesses

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Ti/Fe Businesses

    People often see business as a strictly Gamma venture. However, I think there are examples of Ti/Fe businesses; primarily Beta ones. I can think of a few: human trafficking (although this could be a Gamma business, I see intensely low Fi in it) and the Mafia-related businesses (a codified Ti and Se way of life). Any more?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    People often see business as a strictly Gamma venture. However, I think there are examples of Ti/Fe businesses; primarily Beta ones. I can think of a few: human trafficking (although this could be a Gamma business, I see intensely low Fi in it) and the Mafia-related businesses (a codified Ti and Se way of life). Any more?
    lol, good examples, and I think you're onto something. These both represent things with some inherent structure behind them, rather than merely focusing on 'movement' or activity, so to speak. I personally LOVE the mafia and the idea behind it. I love how isolated (self-sustaining, in a sense) it is relative to other things, and the structural control is awesome. People know their place, and if you step out of line, you get plugged. I love it. damn. coffee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    lol, good examples, and I think you're onto something. These both represent things with some inherent structure behind them, rather than merely focusing on 'movement' or activity, so to speak. I personally LOVE the mafia and the idea behind it. I love how isolated (self-sustaining, in a sense) it is relative to other things, and the structural control is awesome. People know their place, and if you step out of line, you get plugged. I love it. damn. coffee.
    My favourite thing about the mafia is Omerta. The CODE.
    ()
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    My favourite thing about the mafia is Omerta. The CODE.
    Yes, lol. Rules, principles and structure. Everything is clear-cut; follow it or die, fucker. No petty excuses based on ambiguities or personal feelings (*cough* duck watchers *cough* ); it is what it is.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    HEIL OMERTA!

    The Camorra, I believe, are more lax about this, according to an article I read about them today in the Observer.

    I read a book about the Cosa Nostra a while ago, and I actually appreciated their code, as they're coming from a Beta perspective, and I can appreciate any Betas. This is why I have more sympathy for the Nazis than others who go "HITLER WAS A FUCKING EVIL MAN AND HE SHOULD BE TORTURED" do. They'll never understand where I'm coming from, because they're so simple-minded and boring.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Yes, lol. Rules, principles and structure. Everything is clear-cut; follow it or die, fucker. No petty excuses based on ambiguities or personal feelings (*cough* duck watchers *cough* ); it is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    HEIL OMERTA!

    The Camorra, I believe, are more lax about this, according to an article I read about them today in the Observer.

    I read a book about the Cosa Nostra a while ago, and I actually appreciated their code, as they're coming from a Beta perspective, and I can appreciate any Betas. This is why I have more sympathy for the Nazis than others who go "HITLER WAS A FUCKING EVIL MAN AND HE SHOULD BE TORTURED" do. They'll never understand where I'm coming from, because they're so simple-minded and boring.
    Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. This girl was on stickam one night talking about how incredible hitler's vision was, in terms of how he was able to exert such mental control - and what this suggested on even an archetypal level - and motherfuckers were looking at her like she had just said she liked to kill old people or something lol. CONTENT NOT CONTEXT UGH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    lol @ you, a slave to your pathetic emotions. Where did I say anything about following peers? Nice facile Ne correlation lol. I said RULES and STRUCTURE. Learn how to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    lol @ you, a slave to your pathetic emotions. Where did I say anything about following peers? Nice facile Ne correlation lol. I said RULES and STRUCTURE. Learn how to read.
    Last edited by Rubicon; 10-05-2008 at 08:32 PM.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    CONTENT NOT CONTEXT UGH.
    Exactly. People never pick up on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I bet it is a crap album. You can tell by the name "Boysetsfire".
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Exactly. People never pick up on this.
    People generally prefer to live in externally-defined contexts, and function within these paradigms. Go figure.

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    I think marketing businesses are a good venue for Fe, and I think the thinking types can be found basically everyhwere.

    Anyway, anybody saying that they "like" the mafia must be not really familiar with it.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I think marketing businesses are a good venue for Fe, and I think the thinking types can be found basically everyhwere.
    Yeah, public relations stuff.

    Anyway, anybody saying that they "like" the mafia must be not really familiar with it.
    One can like the ideology behind it, or the principles that govern it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    One can like the ideology behind it, or the principles that govern it.
    Ok, that's different, you're right. In practice, even if the principles would say that only people that betray the mafia should be killed, there is a lot of killing of innocents going on.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Ok, that's different, you're right. In practice, even if the principles would say that only people that betray the mafia should be killed, there is a lot of killing of innocents going on.
    Spilt blood is a small sacrifice.

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    This is why I have more sympathy for the Nazis than others who go "HITLER WAS A FUCKING EVIL MAN AND HE SHOULD BE TORTURED" do.
    What you say makes no sense. You're not my dual. Get your big black away from me. My hole is closed off now.

    Perhaps the Jewish media is out of control and overly PC. But that doesn't explain why you have sympathy for Nazis, who are/were naturally strong and do not need your sympathy. It's just illogical and weird. Care to explain your position in-depth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    What you say makes no sense. You're not my dual. Get your big black away from me. My hole is closed off now.

    Perhaps the Jewish media is out of control and overly PC. But that doesn't explain why you have sympathy for Nazis, who are/were naturally strong and do not need your sympathy. It's just illogical and weird. Care to explain your position in-depth?
    He wasn't empathizing with them; he was conveying understanding of the ideology behind their position. It wasn't related to the actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Spilt blood is a small sacrifice.
    more than 5000 officially innocent people killed by the mafia here in italy in the last 50 years. I guess they forgot a rule in their code, one that assured for good aim.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    more than 5000 officially innocent people killed by the mafia here in italy in the last 50 years. I guess they forgot a rule in their code, one that assured for good aim.
    I wasn't being completely literal, lol. So, about 1 every 3 days? Looks like the mafia is breaking some rule; that's far too many casualties. So, people in the mafia should pay.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Spilt blood is a small sacrifice.


    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    He wasn't empathizing with them; he was conveying understanding of the ideology behind their position. It wasn't related to the actions.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    more than 5000 officially innocent people killed by the mafia here in italy in the last 50 years. I guess they forgot a rule in their code, one that assured for good aim.
    "Good" is a relative term. What is good for some may not be good for others.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post




    This.



    "Good" is a relative term. What is good for some may not be good for others.
    lol, I'm not sure many people would consider the said statistic "good," but whatever.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    lol, I'm not sure many people would consider the said statistic "good," but whatever.
    No one would. Not even the killers themselves. What I'm trying to say is that Fabio is suggesting that the Mafia are working towards aims which are not "good". I'm saying "not good to whom? Politicians? The families of those gunned down? The Mafia themselves?" They have their own definition of what is "good" and what is "bad"; it's defined within their code. No one wants to see innocents executed, but at the same time, if something is effective, one will utilise it.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    No one would. Not even the killers themselves. What I'm trying to say is that Fabio is suggesting that the Mafia are working towards aims which are not "good". I'm saying "not good to whom? Politicians? The families of those gunned down? The Mafia themselves?" They have their own definition of what is "good" and what is "bad"; it's defined within their code. No one wants to see innocents executed, but at the same time, if something is effective, one will utilise it.
    I would suggest that the "good" of the collective whole - while not able to be proved as objectively right, philosophically - is the correct one, or should be prioritized. It doesn't matter what some isolated group's definition is. Overall confluence is what matters. If one of their murders fosters this, I'm all for it.

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    I am not implying that Mafia is working towards not good objectives - I'm not in the position to say when an objective is good or bad -, but exclusively that Mafia's casualities exceed those requires by the objectives themselves.

    No one wants to see innocents executed, but at the same time, if something is effective, one will utilise it.
    Here then we are confusing methods with aims. Killing innocents is a method which I consider to be dishonorable; aims are a different matter.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng
    People know their place, and if you step out of line, you get plugged. I love it.
    I don't love it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    This is why I have more sympathy for the Nazis than others who go "HITLER WAS A FUCKING EVIL MAN AND HE SHOULD BE TORTURED" do. They'll never understand where I'm coming from, because they're so simple-minded and boring.
    I have no sympathy for the Nazis. Hitler was a fucking insane man, and I don't like torture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    No one wants to see innocents executed, but at the same time, if something is effective, one will utilise it.
    Boo hoo, we killed a few people. So what? They were worthless?

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I would suggest that the "good" of the collective whole - while not able to be proved as objectively right, philosophically - is the correct one, or should be prioritized.
    I don't. The more it is prioritized, the more people are pointlessly killed. I don't want to be a clone of everyone else... I'd rather have a society where most people opt to lead a pointless existence than one where all people are forced to lead one. I want a society where people can rise, not where they are forced to drudge their lives away in the gutters.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Killing innocents is a method which I consider to be dishonorable; aims are a different matter.
    Agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't love it.
    Too bad.

    I have no sympathy for the Nazis. Hitler was a fucking insane man, and I don't like torture.
    And when did anyone here praise his actions?

    Boo hoo, we killed a few people. So what? They were worthless?
    Sometimes, in some lines of work. Like criminals - they're worthless, so off them and we do everyone a favor.

    I don't. The more it is prioritized, the more people are pointlessly killed. I don't want to be a clone of everyone else... I'd rather have a society where most people opt to lead a pointless existence than one where all people are forced to lead one. I want a society where people can rise, not where they are forced to drudge their lives away in the gutters.
    What the hell? Nice straw man, lol. I wouldn't want to be forced to lead some fake existence and drudge my life away in the gutter either. All I did was praise the power hierarchy; don't get your panties in a bunch.

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    I think it is really easy to romanticise the Mafia. For a while, the Godfather trilogy were my favourite movies. I've read the majority of Mario Puzo's writing. It was the same time I was into John Le Carre and Graham Greene. All that stuff about loyalty and having a code to live by - it is all very appealing, particularly when you have not formed your own moral code of how you choose to live. But there is a huge difference between the Mafia of fiction and the reality of organised crime. Same with the glamour of the spy world and the reality of espionage. I watched a movie a few years ago called 'I Cento Passi' and I've never forgotten it. Snapped me right out of my angsty teen emo valourisation of the Mafia.

    I think it is easy to be 'macho' and appear flippant about the value of human life. But I also think it is largely posturing. I think people here are mature enough to make a distinction between the popular culture depiction of groups like the Mafia and the reality of it. *shrugs* At least I'm working under that assumption. I'm pretty big on the having an iron-clad moral code to rule how you live. I can appreciate that the Mafia has a power hierarchy without sharing any of the values or methods implied by it.
    allez cuisine!

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    I was thinking yesterday how a restaurant *should* be Ti/Fe, with more of a leaning towards Alpha. Making people tasty food in a peaceful, but interesting atmosphere that is carefully organized to maximize comfort and profit.

    Bars/lounges I would see as Ti/Fe as well, maybe more Beta.
    ILE - Ti.

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    - drug smuggling
    - operatics
    - prostitution
    - accountancy
    - bounty hunting
    - antiques dealing

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I would suggest that the "good" of the collective whole - while not able to be proved as objectively right, philosophically - is the correct one, or should be prioritized. It doesn't matter what some isolated group's definition is. Overall confluence is what matters. If one of their murders fosters this, I'm all for it.
    To you, perhaps. But this claim is arbitrary. I know what you're trying to say; most people I've met argue that utilitarianism is the correct way of life; or the "better"/"best" way of life, at least. Personally, however, I can't justify collective happiness over individual happiness. Not philosophically, at least. Obviously, when it comes to real life, my gut instinct will tell me to do things. I don't think about them, I just do them. Sometimes these "things" are for the good of the collective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    - drug smuggling
    - operatics
    - prostitution
    - accountancy
    - bounty hunting
    - antiques dealing
    Accountancy and bounty hunting I'd argue are more Gamma. Drug smuggling can also be Gamma.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    The Mafia reminds me of guys I met back in juvey.

    "God Sam you're so hot, you can suck my cock. But if you tell anybody about it faggot, I'll rip your heart out and I'll kill your mom too."

    Yeah. That whole macho bravado thing. Only they're serious cause they actually can be intimidating and stuff. SLEs gone wonky. It's easy to romanticze them, or make them into gay porn stars.

    But realistically? I need a bit of moral softness. I don't want you to axe murder me. I just need you to think that you can, because it makes me feel that you can protect me against an actual physical threat.

    I consider them to be 'downlow guys.' And Yawn. I just don't play that anymore.

    Ezra, when are you going to come out of the closet btw? I'm serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Accountancy and bounty hunting I'd argue are more Gamma. Drug smuggling can also be Gamma.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Ezra, when are you going to come out of the closet btw? I'm serious.
    When by some miraculous psychological fuck up of a cataclysm, I suddenly believe that I want a giant cock over pussy, tits and a real arse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    He is an example of all three. He is like a bounty hunter of the Old West; well-dressed and tobacco-smoking. He'd easily pass for an accountant, and drug smuggling is evidently his game. Just look at his eyes.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    The Mafia reminds me of guys I met back in juvey.

    "God Sam you're so hot, you can suck my cock. But if you tell anybody about it faggot, I'll rip your heart out and I'll kill your mom too."

    Yeah. That whole macho bravado thing. Only they're serious cause they actually can be intimidating and stuff. SLEs gone wonky. It's easy to romanticze them, or make them into gay porn stars.

    But realistically? I need a bit of moral softness. I don't want you to axe murder me. I just need you to think that you can, because it makes me feel that you can protect me against an actual physical threat.

    I consider them to be 'downlow guys.' And Yawn. I just don't play that anymore.

    Ezra, when are you going to come out of the closet btw? I'm serious.
    lol

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    When by some miraculous psychological fuck up of a cataclysm, I suddenly believe that I want a giant cock over pussy, tits and a real arse.
    Your campy, exaggerated displays of male heterosexuality just reeks of closeted gayness. Sorry but the natural straightness just has a more realism to it than that. Cracka for example, is clearly a heterosexual male. You are however, not.

    I know one when I see one. Don't get upset or defensive, please.

    I have a new function. It's the gay one. It knows how gay men are when I walk in the room. I've only been doing it for my whole life.

    And for those who think I'm playing, well I am, but I can be playful/serious at the same time. And Ezra's a big homo. God why can't he just be honest. JUST COME OUT OF THE FUCKING CLOSET GOD. IT'S NOT THAT HARD.

    I don't want you. If you think it's about that, your sick ego is getting in the way. I just want you to be content with your own life. We're just trying to help you, Ezra.

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    The more straight a guy tries to be, the more gay he ends up appearing.

    Funny how that works, doesn't it?

    Snork.

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    uh oh...lol

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    I wish I could let this go. But I can't. I can't help myself. I'm too evil. Or too good. But Ezra, seriously, I just see things in you that you may not be willing to admit yourself. Again I am not coming onto you. I already have a boyfriend. But I just know these things. I've been doing this a lot you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Your campy, exaggerated displays of male heterosexuality just reeks of closeted gayness. Sorry but the natural straightness just has a more realism to it than that. Cracka for example, is clearly a heterosexual male. You are however, not.

    I know one when I see one. Don't get upset or defensive, please.

    I have a new function. It's the gay one. It knows how gay men are when I walk in the room. I've only been doing it for my whole life.

    And for those who think I'm playing, well I am, but I can be playful/serious at the same time. And Ezra's a big homo. God why can't he just be honest. JUST COME OUT OF THE FUCKING CLOSET GOD. IT'S NOT THAT HARD.

    I don't want you. If you think it's about that, your sick ego is getting in the way. I just want you to be content with your own life. We're just trying to help you, Ezra.
    Okay.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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