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Thread: Beta out of water: growing up without friends of your own quadra

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Default Beta out of water: growing up without friends of your own quadra

    (nice pun, eh?)

    well I just realized that all my life I've had groups of friends that were in different quadras. With the exception of two IEIs that are lifelong friends (but those friendships have always been one-on-one, not part of any group), I've never had a group of beta friends.

    I'll bet it would be fun.


    Anyway, I think that when you grow up without being a part of a group of your own quadra, you start to feel like you're... a bit weird or out of place somehow. Being a 4, I'm prone to seeing myself as different or special anyway but I think that feeling might be magnified if the things you value aren't affirmed by others consistently. When I think back on my groups of friends, it was mostly gammas. They were great people (esp. the ISFjs) but it explains why I so often felt like a fish out of water.

    the end.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Anyway, I think that when you grow up without being a part of a group of your own quadra, you start to feel like you're... a bit weird or out of place somehow. Being a 4, I'm prone to seeing myself as different or special anyway but I think that feeling might be magnified if the things you value aren't affirmed by others consistently. When I think back on my groups of friends, it was mostly gammas. They were great people (esp. the ISFjs) but it explains why I so often felt like a fish out of water.
    But then agan we type 4s tend to be attracted to the unattainable, so like things that are just out of reach. It's entirely possible that 4s purposely choose "difference" in order to create a built-in psychological distance that they then work to bridge.

    I mean, we all know 4s don't like things too easy and comfortable.

    Eh. Just ideas...
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    But then agan we type 4s tend to be attracted to the unattainable, so like things that are just out of reach. It's entirely possible that 4s purposely choose "difference" in order to create a built-in psychological distance that they then work to bridge.

    I mean, we all know 4s don't like things too easy and comfortable.

    Eh. Just ideas...
    Yes, very true. And of course I knew nothing of personality types at that age. It was jr. high and high school. So I didn't understand why I was drawn to individuals, just that I was. ISFjs always act so cool, discerning and unattainable. So if you do manage to get into their inner circle it's like wow I'm special! lol
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    (nice pun, eh?)

    well I just realized that all my life I've had groups of friends that were in different quadras. With the exception of two IEIs that are lifelong friends (but those friendships have always been one-on-one, not part of any group), I've never had a group of beta friends.

    I'll bet it would be fun.


    Anyway, I think that when you grow up without being a part of a group of your own quadra, you start to feel like you're... a bit weird or out of place somehow. Being a 4, I'm prone to seeing myself as different or special anyway but I think that feeling might be magnified if the things you value aren't affirmed by others consistently. When I think back on my groups of friends, it was mostly gammas. They were great people (esp. the ISFjs) but it explains why I so often felt like a fish out of water.
    I think you're right about this. I am the same type as you (different instinct) and I have had similar experience. My family is predominantly delta, so my general quadra values were never really understood. Being a 4 magnified it somewhat, but I'd say my e-type generated more shame regarding parental approval than information metabolism. Luckily, I was able to find betas enough. When I look back, I see that I got along best with beta P subs and gamma P subs, and that most of the rewarding relationships that really changed me were with these types of people. And my closest friend is an ESTp, which makes things a lot easier at times. Before I knew about socionics, I always wondered why our communication was so effortless, and now I realize why.

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune
    But then agan we type 4s tend to be attracted to the unattainable, so like things that are just out of reach. It's entirely possible that 4s purposely choose "difference" in order to create a built-in psychological distance that they then work to bridge.

    I mean, we all know 4s don't like things too easy and comfortable.

    Eh. Just ideas...
    True, but 4's do want connection and appreciation deep down, so I think if such things are lacking over time ("no one is seeing me"), it can lead to the types of feelings redbaron described. I think there is a degree to which we separate ourselves from others, but it seems more in reference to our inner selves and how it is reflected on others, rather than simply detaching (which is more 5'ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    ISFjs always act so cool, discerning and unattainable. So if you do manage to get into their inner circle it's like wow I'm special! lol
    They really do, lol. Ever since I've been observing that type more, I've come to believe that Se-ISFj's are some of the most enigmatic people (I haven't encountered many, though).
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post

    True, but 4's do want connection and appreciation deep down, so I think if such things are lacking over time ("no one is seeing me"), it can lead to the types of feelings redbaron described. I think there is a degree to which we separate ourselves from others, but it seems more in reference to our inner selves and how it is reflected on others, rather than simply detaching (which is more 5'ish).
    I've so often felt that no one sees me. so when someone does (like my EIE aunt or this SLE friend) it's kind of like a small miracle.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I've so often felt that no one sees me. so when someone does (like my EIE aunt or this SLE friend) it's kind of like a small miracle.
    I know exactly what you mean. And at first, I tend to be circumspect, and sort of wonder if they are really seeing me, so I test them with mysterious detachment and other elusive games to see if they actually see my essence. And when they do, you just feel it, and it's amazing, because nothing you do can deter them, because they know where it's all coming from. They accept you, and that's such a joyful thing (sadly joyful), to know that maybe something really isn't wrong with you, and that even if something is, someone still values you in your inherent form, and doesn't place expectations on you or abandon you.

    But it's rare, and I don't expect it. Most people don't give a fuck, thus I don't. Call me immature.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I know exactly what you mean. And at first, I tend to be circumspect, and sort of wonder if they are really seeing me, so I test them with mysterious detachment and other elusive games to see if they actually see my essence. And when they do, you just feel it, and it's amazing, because nothing you do can deter them, because they know where it's all coming from. They accept you, and that's such a joyful thing (sadly joyful), to know that maybe something really isn't wrong with you, and that even if something is, someone still values you in your inherent form, and doesn't place expectations on you or abandon you.

    But it's rare, and I don't expect it. Most people don't give a fuck, thus I don't. Call me immature.
    I never expect it either. Which is one reason why I don't trust it and like you said, do some testing/holding back at first to see if it's real. When I was younger, I definitely had more of a "who cares" attitude towards people. I'm better now I think. Although I still have low expectations for making any meaningful connections, I figure that I can at least try to be pleasant. And occasionally I'm pleasantly surprised with the results.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Yes, very true. And of course I knew nothing of personality types at that age. It was jr. high and high school. So I didn't understand why I was drawn to individuals, just that I was. ISFjs always act so cool, discerning and unattainable. So if you do manage to get into their inner circle it's like wow I'm special! lol
    Hrmm. I think there's an ISFj in my theatre group. I've known him for 10 years now. He's extremely capable, devoted and responsible. I like him, but have never really been attracted romantically. He's a bit too conservative for me to feel like I could ever be close with him, but he's a great dependable friend and you always know he'll help you in any way he can.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Hrmm. I think there's an ISFj in my theatre group. I've known him for 10 years now. He's extremely capable, devoted and responsible. I like him, but have never really been attracted romantically. He's a bit too conservative for me to feel like I could ever be close with him, but he's a great dependable friend and you always know he'll help you in any way he can.
    Do you need help?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Do you need help?
    Sure. Clean my gutters?
    socio: INFp - IEI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Sure. Clean my gutters?
    I wasn't offering. You already have help.

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