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Thread: Quadra values feh

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Default Quadra values... feh.

    I never really find I agree with the notion of quadra values. Especially because in my view, it's a stretch to say that IEI and SLE can really get along in any kind of longer term amity unless they're completely devoid of the appeal of someone who shares the deeply held beliefs and interests they find valuable.

    But that's another conversation in which I align myself against the forces of Socionics Disciples, who turn out in droves to pummel my understanding into submission with the True Faith, while I at the repeat invocations of convoluted pretzel logic.

    At any rate here's my synopses of my own relations with types:

    Closest friends: ILI, EIE
    Consistent romantic attractions: IEE, EIE, ILE, SEE
    Difficult/conflict-ridden: SLE, LSE, LII, LSI, SLI
    Admiring but somewhat remote: LIE, EII, ESI
    Not enough data: ESE, SLI

    No idea what this means. *sigh*.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
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    xyz's Avatar
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    It means you need to date more. And not bring socionics into something as pure and fun-filled as dating.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    while I at the repeat invocations of convoluted pretzel logic.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    It means you need to date more. And not bring socionics into something as pure and fun-filled as dating.
    Ugh, dating. I'd much prefer a nice root canal.

    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Quadra values are not all there are to relationships, and any reasonably well-adjusted person should be able to get along with another from any of the other quadras. Just think of families, how often are they single-quadra? I wouldn't think very often, but you learn to deal with each other (usually) and find ways to get along, and you all love each other anyway.
    Now see, this is what I'd appreciate as an enlightened viewpoint regarding quadra interactions and values.

    Too often it just seems to me that discussions of quadras here are painted with a very broad brush and end up sounding either too vague or too much of leap of logic to really make any sense. Or other times things just devolve into "Betas can't stand Deltas" and again, make little sense in the grand scheme of life experiences and real-time interactions. I don't intend on walking around with a little clipboard and eliminating potential friend candidates based on "so-called" clash of quadra values.

    In the end, I find most interesting people who have a certain balance of similarity to my own personal values, yet also a quality of difference. Ideally, this occasionally rouses me and prevents the formation of an entirely insular and stagnating world concept.

    Thus, my concept of ideal relations:
    "I recognize you... yet your differences intrigue and interest me."
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    I don't see SEI on your list.

    I have to say...not until recently have I thought much about this. Because not until recently have I known a dual! I just feel so... relaxed around him. So appreciated. Hard to explain. And we have the most fun. It's hard for me to NOT project that into a gosh-I-wish-there-were-more-betas-around or something. Another example is my EIE aunt whom I don't get to see very often but I enjoy her so much! I find myself wishing she were around. This is going to sound bad but I wish for her more than I wish for my own mother (who's not around much either, but more than my aunt) because I know she'll understand me in a way my mom never does (altho she tries and I love her very much).

    I think, perhaps, that you just haven't met the right SLE yet.

    But I do want to know where you'd put SEIs on that list.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I think, perhaps, that you just haven't met the right SLE yet.
    Eh, I guess I just don't think I'd feel understood by any SLE. There seems like there'd be FAR too many occasions to be hurt by insensitivity, misunderstanding, insecurity, etc. I'm not going to hold my breath. I think I'll be fine without duality. I'd just like mutuality one of these days...

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    But I do want to know where you'd put SEIs on that list.
    Probably in the "Not enough info"... although I suspect I'd get along with them somewhat well.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Eh, I guess I just don't think I'd feel understood by any SLE. There seems like there'd be FAR too many occasions to be hurt by insensitivity, misunderstanding, insecurity, etc. I'm not going to hold my breath. I think I'll be fine without duality. I'd just like mutuality one of these days...
    just smiling cause that's what I used to think too. I was sure, even after I guessed this guy was SLE, that he wouldn't get me. I really believed there would be no substance, we had nothing in common, etc, everything you said above. Now, keep in mind it took two YEARS for this to develop. But he kept after me quietly and with this kind of steady persistence but it was so low-key, I didn't even notice it for awhile. Anyway, now that we're friends I'm genuinely surprised and completely humbled by the duality experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Probably in the "Not enough info"... although I suspect I'd get along with them somewhat well.
    Okay. Just curious what your experience had been. My dad is SEI, as is my son, my uncle, my father-in-law and some good friends also so I have lots of experience and it's all been positive.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Eh, I guess I just don't think I'd feel understood by any SLE. There seems like there'd be FAR too many occasions to be hurt by insensitivity, misunderstanding, insecurity, etc. I'm not going to hold my breath. I think I'll be fine without duality. I'd just like mutuality one of these days...
    Maybe you need to be hurt to see clearly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Maybe you need to be hurt to see clearly.
    no.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    no.
    Does saying no make you feel powerful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    I never really find I agree with the notion of quadra values. Especially because in my view, it's a stretch to say that IEI and SLE can really get along in any kind of longer term amity unless they're completely devoid of the appeal of someone who shares the deeply held beliefs and interests they find valuable.

    But that's another conversation in which I align myself against the forces of Socionics Disciples, who turn out in droves to pummel my understanding into submission with the True Faith, while I at the repeat invocations of convoluted pretzel logic.

    At any rate here's my synopses of my own relations with types:

    Closest friends: ILI, EIE
    Consistent romantic attractions: IEE, EIE, ILE, SEE
    Difficult/conflict-ridden: SLE, LSE, LII, LSI, SLI
    Admiring but somewhat remote: LIE, EII, ESI
    Not enough data: ESE, SLI

    No idea what this means. *sigh*.
    you will feel happier if you go alpha
    I will not aim for the head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Does saying no make you feel powerful.
    No, I just disagree.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    No, I just disagree.
    Then you should say; "I disagree".

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    My grandparents are an SLE-IEI match and though they argue some times they are a perfect match for each other. I personally prefer EIEs to any other kind of company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Does saying no make you feel powerful.
    lmao

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Maybe you need to be hurt to see clearly.
    I actually think that's kind of a sadistic viewpoint, and wouldn't want to be anywhere near involved with anyone who espouses that idea.

    While I certainly believe that difficult situations teach us lessons, anyone who deliberately approaches another person with the notion that they "need to be hurt" or "deserve it" is well on their way to being flat-out abusive.

    Not to mention, I've been plenty hurt, plenty of times and it's not the way to enlightenment.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    I never really find I agree with the notion of quadra values. Especially because in my view, it's a stretch to say that IEI and SLE can really get along in any kind of longer term amity unless they're completely devoid of the appeal of someone who shares the deeply held beliefs and interests they find valuable.

    But that's another conversation in which I align myself against the forces of Socionics Disciples, who turn out in droves to pummel my understanding into submission with the True Faith, while I at the repeat invocations of convoluted pretzel logic.

    At any rate here's my synopses of my own relations with types:

    Closest friends: ILI, EIE
    Consistent romantic attractions: IEE, EIE, ILE, SEE
    Difficult/conflict-ridden: SLE, LSE, LII, LSI, SLI
    Admiring but somewhat remote: LIE, EII, ESI
    Not enough data: ESE, SLI

    No idea what this means. *sigh*.
    Either there's some mistype along the way, or you basically disagree with socionics theory (which is fair enough; just take out "IEI" from your signature or face self-contradiction).
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Either there's some mistype along the way, or you basically disagree with socionics theory (which is fair enough; just take out "IEI" from your signature or face self-contradiction).
    Why, exactly?

    Does my disagreement with some aspects of the theory abrogate my acceptance of others? You are suggesting that usefulness of socionics depends entirely on absolute acceptance of all aspects. Which I *never* do in practice. Theory is theory, and none explains real-time phenomena so flawlessly that it should always be accepted as Law in its entirety. I pick and choose what I find helpful and that can be validated in my experience. Just like with religion. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool syncretist in all things.

    And until I see there's a Law of Socionics, I think I'm good. :wink:
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    I never really find I agree with the notion of quadra values. Especially because in my view, it's a stretch to say that IEI and SLE can really get along in any kind of longer term amity unless they're completely devoid of the appeal of someone who shares the deeply held beliefs and interests they find valuable.
    Could you elaborate on this sentiment. I have trouble understanding what you are saying with it.

    But that's another conversation in which I align myself against the forces of Socionics Disciples, who turn out in droves to pummel my understanding into submission with the True Faith, while I at the repeat invocations of convoluted pretzel logic.

    At any rate here's my synopses of my own relations with types:

    Closest friends: ILI, EIE
    Consistent romantic attractions: IEE, EIE, ILE, SEE
    Difficult/conflict-ridden: SLE, LSE, LII, LSI, SLI
    Admiring but somewhat remote: LIE, EII, ESI
    Not enough data: ESE, SLI

    No idea what this means. *sigh*.
    What is the point of this post? Are you questioning your type? Seeking an explanation? Something else?

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    i'd suggest that to eschew the concept of quadra values largely suggests that you either don't understand or don't agree with much of what socionics posits about the way IM elements function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i'd suggest that to eschew the concept of quadra values largely suggests that you either don't understand or don't agree with much of what socionics posits about the way IM elements function.
    I suggest that this is completely wrong.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i'd suggest that to eschew the concept of quadra values largely suggests that you either don't understand or don't agree with much of what socionics posits about the way IM elements function.
    I'd disagree. Because I use to do the same thing when I use to think I was beta. I completely rejected the quadras as being relevant, having merit as socionics concepts, because they completly did not work in my case. That is, she could simply be mistyped, the quadras reflect this and so she eschews them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post
    I'd disagree. Because I use to do the same thing when I use to think I was beta. I completely rejected the quadras as being relevant, having merit as socionics concepts, because they completly did not work in my case. That is, she could simply be mistyped, the quadras reflect this and so she eschews them.
    Well I doubt aka-kitsune is mistyped. But I get your point.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Well I doubt aka-kitsune is mistyped.
    Why do you say that/How come?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post
    Why do you say that/How come?
    because I completely resonate with almost everything she says and we "feel" very much like identicals. (to me, anyway) Sure it's not impossible but I would be really surprised if she were anything else.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    I actually think that's kind of a sadistic viewpoint, and wouldn't want to be anywhere near involved with anyone who espouses that idea.

    While I certainly believe that difficult situations teach us lessons, anyone who deliberately approaches another person with the notion that they "need to be hurt" or "deserve it" is well on their way to being flat-out abusive.

    Not to mention, I've been plenty hurt, plenty of times and it's not the way to enlightenment.
    Some people need to be punished. Sometimes it can't be avoided. You haven't given any real reason why it's wrong, other than some subjective philosophy stuff (like that other time you mentioned karma).

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Why, exactly?

    Does my disagreement with some aspects of the theory abrogate my acceptance of others? You are suggesting that usefulness of socionics depends entirely on absolute acceptance of all aspects. Which I *never* do in practice. Theory is theory, and none explains real-time phenomena so flawlessly that it should always be accepted as Law in its entirety. I pick and choose what I find helpful and that can be validated in my experience. Just like with religion. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool syncretist in all things.

    And until I see there's a Law of Socionics, I think I'm good. :wink:
    Okay, fair point. I tend to take the all-or-nothing route. It's just my nature to do so.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i'd suggest that to eschew the concept of quadra values largely suggests that you either don't understand or don't agree with much of what socionics posits about the way IM elements function.
    I think the second is a much more likely case.
    Suomea

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