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Thread: User Khamelion

  1. #1
    Khamelion's Avatar
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    Default User Khamelion

    I've been here a long time. I've read a lot of junk. I've witnessed a lot of "drama" and disputes. I've latched on to biased opinions, I've made broad generalizations about quadrant's and their use of functions, when I didn't actually understand the function itself. A really good example of this bias would be my bias towards Beta, because of one particular person I know and had many issues with. And this isn't fair...or a practical or efficient way to get to the truth or anything resembling it. (Not that truth applies in Socionics...but you gotta do the best you can and being biased isn't going to get you anywhere.)

    You know what REALLY gets on my nerves (and I've been guilty of it but I've generally cut it out) is when someone uses the phrase, "XXXx's wouldn't say that/do that/post this, so thats why you're not that type." Like thats supposed to prove a fact....give me a break. Millions of different people share the same type, yet their behaviors are not SOLELY dependent upon those types!!! Not even remotely! So many other things effect behavior it's not even funny, mainly environments which almost has a bigger impact on a person than their actual (theoretic) CORE personality. Environment varies all the way from their diet, internal chemical levels, the way they were raised, the temperature of their region, the people they've been exposed to during school or work, books and media they've been exposed and inspired by and not to mention LACK of those things....and thousands of other things! I will pretty much ignore that reasoning from now on. I will of course read it, and ask you why you would say that....but I'm not ever going to just believe it just because YOU dont think THIS type could EVER do that....like you'd know what all people of that type would do. Ridiculous....*spits*

    I've finally reached the point where I feel like I need some kind of mind-cleansing. I want to throw every bias out the window. I want to throw out any objections to any type I might be, or what functions I use around here or otherwise.

    The only certainty about my type is that I'm very clearly an F type.

    I also think it is very clear that I value Se...however I've recently started paying more attention to Si descriptions, and so I also feel as though I value this a great deal as well. With this, I suppose I'm going to search around the forum for threads discussing the distinct differences between the two. This only solves one of my problems though, because while I know I like Sensory functions, I can't be certain that I'm "good" at them. Meaning that I am a sensory type.

    Then there is Fe and Fi, another subject where I need to find threads describing the differences. If I am in fact and Fe type, what is it paired with that makes sense for me? And then what do I value more, Te or Ti and how would that effect how my Fe shows itself? This might explain where I started to be so convinced that I was Fi instead. Because a big bias I had was that Fe was completely irrational, uncontrolled and wild, especially in Beta. And I was convinced that Fi is always controlled and calm, unwavering even. Neither of these make sense though.

    Te and Ti are really hard for me, another one I need some really good explanations of how I'd go about seeking each, and figuring out which one I prefer. I realized this much more when recently asked WHY I think I value Te more and I couldn't answer at all what so ever.


    Ne and Ni. Probably the worst. My idea of Ni was always having to do with...long term intuition. Seeing things in the future and how they would could pan out easily. Being able to plan ahead well, make the plans set in together and click just right. This thought process lead me to believe that I don't have very good Ni....because I'm pretty horrible at doing this. I'm extremely unstructured and get very stressed when I have to plan something for the future. I'm comforted when someone tells me the order of which to do things in, in a way that sounds practical and smooth...and all that is required of me is to carry it out. HOWEVER, other peoples biases tell me that this is not what Ni is all about...yet they fail to explain what it is about instead, or why it isn't about that at all.

    Ne...I honestly do not understand enough about this function. I have ignored it (not in the ego block sense) just, I haven't given its use much thought for some reason. Same as I havn't given Si much thought. This had lead me to actually ignore Delta quadra types, and also Alpha to an extent. The only thought I give to Alpha is the possibility of my being ISFp. It's really strange how I barely give thought to Delta, until now anyways.

    So, If anyone wants to help me out figure some of this out, I'd really appreciate it. I'll look for those threads on my own, but if you have some input you'd like to just share here it would of course save me the effort.

    If you've noticed me showing any functions, or showing weaknesses of any functions, or anything like that...I'm REALLY interested in knowing what you've come up with and your hunches. I'll take the ones you don't feel like you can back up, AND ones that you have some concrete reasons for believing.

    The types I am going to throw out there to consider (feel free to add if it isn't on here):
    (not in any order)

    Alpha:
    ISFp

    Beta:
    INFp
    ENFj

    Gamma:
    ESFp
    ISFj

    Delta:
    ENFp



    Well, I guess that's all I got for now. Hopefully someone will be interested in helping me out. I feel like I'm starting completely fresh, and it's impossible for me not to. My head was/is filled with too much jumbled junk to make sense of anything. And so many people in this community (including Socionix) are soooo fucking eager to make you think EXACTLY the way they do and make you equally as unwilling to actually question whether or not you MIGHT not have the right idea of what a THEORETICAL personality type is. It's taken far to seriously, and turned brought out the worst in them. Malicious, vindictive, slanderous....disgusting.


    Feel free to PM or just post here, I'll answer any questions anywhere pretty much. I'm an open book. For those who are newer to the forum and want to try to VI or something like that...I'm willing to participate in that too. Just let me know.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  2. #2
    Khamelion's Avatar
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    I realized it might sound like I'm contradicting myself in this thread, by saying I'm sick of bias and personal opinion, yet asking for everyone's help and opinions. I should clarify by saying that I what I want is information and clarity on the theory itself, and how you notice me fitting into that structure. I suppose I still want to hear personal takes on the theory, and the different writings on the theory. It's useful to compare and contrast.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  3. #3
    snegledmaca's Avatar
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    I find your fresh perspective reinvigorating.

    Your current situation reminds me of myself. The not considering alternatives and when finally do realizing what an abundance of viable options one never considered was available.

    I'd suggest starting from quadra values. Not because I think that is the way to go, but because that is what first got me considering alternatives. When I saw that delta is a far better fit then beta for me. Actually, that everything else was a better fit then beta.

    I'm not certain about the temperaments as they seem conflicting for myself. But if you clearly identify with a temperament I'd say that's relevant.

    Regarding the IME-s, here is my account of a conflict of interests I experience with beta ST-s. Perhaps it can help:
    "I feel like I can't fit in. When I try to get to know people it is perceived as romantic advance. Or in some way an expression of affection, a positive disposition towards them. When in reality I am just interested in what they have to say, what kind of person they are. For some reason people take this as a sing that I think the other person is special, that I perceive the other person as special because they get my undivided attention, because I wish to be with them, spend time together to get to know them.
    When I don't feel like doing something I can't just not do it. For some reason it is expected of me to support the group above my personal needs. A recent example, family obligations. I didn't want to go to my cousin's wedding because I don't go to wedding and I barely know him. But there was this pressure, it's family and stuff. Like some sort of concept of what is right and wrong regarding social conduct is present, clearly defined rules of social conduct and engagement. I can't just walk out on family. Regardless of the fact that they are in essence strangers to me and are as significant in my life as my local cashier or supermarket clerk.
    When I try to speak my mind I am ridiculed. But not in a mean way, more treated as a clown. Like, I try to get into a debate over the true meaning of something and people start laughing, petting me in that you're a goofy sidekick kind of way. Like I'm the groups fool, clown. And then next time they see me they treat me like that. It's like, they don't really understand, or care, what I am going on about, but because I seem to be serious about it, and completely benevolent, they accept me as I am and try to integrate me into their way of doing things, with trying to joke about my demeanor, trying to get me to engage them in lighthearted exchange of jokes. Giving me nicknames and giving me a caricature, that is, a place in their group. It's like, with beta ST-s you always know who has what position, there are clearly defined rules and hierarchy. An example my friend gave to me recently, a party organized by a group of "alternatives". Except there was a strict dress code. That is, everybody had to look the same to ensure that everybody is proper, it was clearly defined what was proper, what is allowed and what isn't. That kind of strict structure and hierarchy in relations between people is unnatural to myself and I cannot abide by it."
    Regarding the IME, perhaps the wiki and rick's blog can help. Here is something from the wiki that I think can give you a conception of the IME-s described:

    Si vs. Se:
    "Unlike , which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.

    In contrast to , is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict."

  4. #4
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    My opinion is that you're an extroverted SF (I dread saying "ESFx"). That's all. Essentially, I get zero Ni, Ne, Ti or Te from you, but I think that it's quite obvious that you're competent in the other functions. What you value is far harder for me to discern. You simply don't talk enough about your opinions or views or ideas or beliefs (or maybe you do, and I, complete with Fi PoLR, miss them), and so I can't really judge what you value more or less. I'd rather you didn't just throw a description out at me that says something like "I probably value Ni because of this". It's something that either I'll work out myself or something on which someone else will throw some great new perspective.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  5. #5
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    You seem a bit harsh to be ENFp (when i say harsh I don't mean in a bad way - it's that I "get" more Se from you) I'm not sure why you would think you were N dominant?

    I don't know you well enough to say what type you are, at least not with certainty, but i've always thought ESFp seemed better than others, from what i've seen

  6. #6
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    Bleh. SEE.

  7. #7
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Beta NF or SEE...anything else seems silly to me. Ethics is obvious, and Se/Ni valuing is a safe bet. I can't possibly see you as ESI, to be honest, so that's what's left.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  8. #8
    Jarno's Avatar
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    Khamelion = SEE

    (IMO)

  9. #9
    Creepy-Diana

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    .

  10. #10
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    karma karma karma karma karma chameleon, you come and gooo, you come and go. Loving would be easy if your colors were like my dream, red gold and greeen, red gold and green. . .
    LOL when she first changed her user name I used to think of that song every time I saw her posts...good times
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  11. #11
    Khamelion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    LOL when she first changed her user name I used to think of that song every time I saw her posts...good times
    Oh gawd and Justin sings it every time I come into the stickam chat when he's in there

    LoL diana
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  12. #12
    Khamelion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    you can add democratic. Ti and Si keep coming together w/ you all the time, e.g. purging while typing, "cleanse my mind", etc.
    that might be taking it a little to literally....


    and now that i'm doing it...it took me forever to realize i had to do it. so if you WANT to take it literally...chew on that.
    SEE Unknown Subtype
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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