Ni/Ne in Beta and Delta NFs

[1981slater]

Beta NF's are loud, friendly, intelligent, welcoming, make funny jokes, but they are a little bit forceful...

Delta NF's are manipulative hypocrites aristocrats, druggies, lazy, talk about bullshit, try to steal things from you on behalf of sharing. They don't usually take a shower and live with lots of dirty dogs, mastermind riots, waste money...

[1981slater]

Delta NF's end up joining terrorist groups. They tell ISTp's what to do

[Mea]

Beta NF's are loud, friendly, intelligent, welcoming, make funny jokes, but they are a little bit forceful...

Delta NF's are manipulative hypocrites aristocrats, druggies, lazy, talk about bullshit, try to steal things from you on behalf of sharing. They don't usually take a shower and live with lots of dirty dogs, mastermind riots, waste money...

LMAO! i hope you're not serious, but that's hilarious.

[1981slater]

Of course I'm not serious. Socionics type is only one of the things that shape a person. Anyway, I know several NF's who fit to this "profile". Enjoy them

[unefille]

Beta NF's are loud, friendly, intelligent, welcoming, make funny jokes, but they are a little bit forceful...

Delta NF's are manipulative hypocrites aristocrats, druggies, lazy, talk about bullshit, try to steal things from you on behalf of sharing. They don't usually take a shower and live with lots of dirty dogs, mastermind riots, waste money...

Delta NF's end up joining terrorist groups. They tell ISTp's what to do

TRUE and OBJECTIVE information.

[1981slater]

How would you define truth, Obi Wan?

[unefille]

How would you define truth, Obi Wan?

Everything you write, Yoda.

*bows down*

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Whats the difference between wasting money and spending money?

[strrrng]

Mimosa, a quick way to see if you have Ni is to think about how well you understand it, cause deltas don't lol. Try to think about your experience using it (and no, predicting things doesn't count). If you find yourself at a loss to really conceptualize the way it operates from an experiential perspective, chances are you don't have it.

[Kristiina]

yeah, what strrrng said.

Plus you can try this. Pick an object near you (pen, mouse, etc) and describe what thoughts it brings to you in the right order. Describe how you think. There are certain distict differences between Ni and Ne, and this could well show which one you use more.

[Expat]

What are the main differences between Ni and Ne (NFs)? (How does Beta NF behavior differ from Delta NF behavior (Ni/Ne)?)

Rather than go for complicated theoretical descriptions: I think Delta NFs are more likely to be described as "naive" in relation to other people's characters, as in, more likely to assume best intentions, or give the benefit of the doubt, to other individuals (+), than Beta NFs.

On the other hand, Beta NFs are more likely to be described as "naive" in relation to ideas, ideologies, etc. That is, more likely to be "true believers" in something than Delta NFs.

[Topaz]

yeah, what strrrng said.

Plus you can try this. Pick an object near you (pen, mouse, etc) and describe what thoughts it brings to you in the right order. Describe how you think. There are certain distict differences between Ni and Ne, and this could well show which one you use more.

This is interesting Kristiina. OK you see a ring of keys. Please descrbe to me what thoughts pop into your mind.

[aka-kitsune]

On the other hand, Beta NFs are more likely to be described as "naive" in relation to ideas, ideologies, etc. That is, more likely to be "true believers" in something than Delta NFs.

I highly doubt that.

[xyz]

Rather than go for complicated theoretical descriptions: I think Delta NFs are more likely to be described as "naive" in relation to other people's characters, as in, more likely to assume best intentions, or give the benefit of the doubt, to other individuals (+), than Beta NFs.

On the other hand, Beta NFs are more likely to be described as "naive" in relation to ideas, ideologies, etc. That is, more likely to be "true believers" in something than Delta NFs.

Well I, on the other hand, wholeheartedly agree.

[anndelise]

This might have been up for discussion before, but I couldn't find it when searching the forum.

What are the main differences between Ni and Ne (NFs)? (How does Beta NF behavior differ from Delta NF behavior (Ni/Ne)?)

The following doesn't answer those particular questions, but it's an example of a very basic attitude difference between Beta and Delta NFs:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...604#post431604

[Creepy-]

I'm at it... (I'll just write what pops into my head first)

I'm holding a pen...

It's a black pen with a silver lining. I could use it to write. My dream is to one day write a novel. I'm constantly making whole universes ready in my mind (and on my computer), and then one day the plots of my novels can be carefully launched within those universes. But I need time to write, and unfortunately that has not been possible yet as I work full time and is the mother of two. I think I can manage to work a little less this winter, as I have saved some money to manage, so who knows? Maybe I'll get it done this next year? And that pen is good for writing. I like pen and paper more when I write as I have a hard time overcoming the lure of the Internet if I use my computer in the creative phase.

Ne > Ni

[tiny_dancer]

Someone with Ni should write about their pen. I'm interested in the comparison.

[unefille]

My pen is also silver and black. I remember when I first started using these type of pens - they have fluid blue ink. I thought 'well, now, I can really write.' It was six summers ago. My handwriting changed dramatically around that time - I remember sitting at my desk and just practicing my writing - how looped it became. Even the slant of my writing changed, the height, the variability. They say your handwriting says a lot about you and that's probably true because I felt that summer I changed a great deal as well, internally. It became steadier, more even. I became more quiet and withdrawn around that time as well. I learnt to temper my reactions to people a lot more. I wrote more and more, choosing to invest all my feelings and reactions to the world around me in writing instead of responding directly to people around me. In fact, that whole summer seems like a strange haze, grey and misted over and amidst that soft, moving grey sea stands out brilliant indigo ribbons of ink forming words on paper. I wrote more intensely that summer than any time since.

---

[Kristiina]

Ne > Ni

Why oh why would you assume you can recognize Ni?!

[Sirena]

Why oh why would you assume you can recognize Ni?!

Maybe she was recognizing Ne?

[Kristiina]

I'm at it... (I'll just write what pops into my head first)

I'm holding a pen...

It's a black pen with a silver lining. I could use it to write. () My dream is to one day write a novel. () I'm constantly making whole universes ready in my mind (and on my computer) (either one, but I do that too.), and then one day the plots of my novels can be carefully launched within those universes. (, planning the future) But I need time to write, and unfortunately (seeing the negative of the plan, beta NF) that has not been possible yet as I work full time and is the mother of two. I think I can manage to work a little less this winter, (, Working out what changes should be done to enabe the plan) as I have saved some money to manage, so who knows? Maybe I'll get it done this next year? (, Setting the time scale) And that pen is good for writing. I like pen and paper more when I write (Fe/Fi both work here) as I have a hard time overcoming the lure of the Internet if I use my computer in the creative phase.

is that convincing?

That was entrirely beta NF>delta NF. You saw a plan and you had one underlying idea - how to become a writer. This is a plan or a goal to work for and you have ideas how to accomplish that.

Delta NF would do start out the same way perhaps, and then suddenly say, "or I could start designing pens" or something totally unrelated. That's the difference - beta NFs have one overall idea and a chaotic way of thinking about it, and delta NFs have chaotic seperate creative ideas.

[Creepy-]

Why oh why would you assume you can recognize Ni?!

Maybe she was recognizing Ne?

Exactly what I was doing. Thanks for pointing this out in my absence, Sirena


EDIT: No, Kristiina, I am afraid I do not understand Ni... probably not at all in fact.

[Creepy-]

is that convincing?

No. In my humble opinion, very little of what you pointed out there as "Beta" versus "Delta" N holds up to logical scrutiny.

I am not saying it is definitely Delta Ne, but it appears that way to me. Mind you, I am in no way invested in Mimosa Pudica's quadra, and I am aware I'm still something of a novice in the world of socionics. However, I think your analysis is incorrect.

I do think I'm good at the chaotic separate idea-thinking as well. I often make such "mind-games" with my husband (ILE). Still, the pen-description I made describes exactly how my line of thoughts work in normal life. In other words, if I'm Delta NF I use Ni a lot.

Yes. And anyway, being strong in Ne implies [nearly equal?] strength using Ni as well, but paying less attention to it. The way you say you play with Ni makes it sound like it's your ignoring function....

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[strrrng]

I like this.

I don't.

[Ali]

My pen is blue. One of those crazy ballpoint pens, the kind you can get at a dozen for 100 rupees, complete with empty cardboard packs. It's not a very reliable pen mind you. Sure, it will run it's course, and there's never really a fear of great bereavement were it to be lost, but neither am I looking down upon it. For me, having any other pen would be an over-indulgence. If it were black, shiny and expensive, I would feel the need to take care of it. To not loose it. Why would I want to keep that burden on me for a pen? Nay. I like this jittery sputtering of a ballpoint. We're rather like duals, it and I - I'm the feely writer and thats the sturdy 'ol pen. Ah the comfort of it. Except well, sometimes I do wish what it would be if it were a little more feeling, with a slender base of yellow. That's me dreaming again. No. This is the pen, I've chosen for, through thick and then, and health and in sickness. It may click a little too loud, and the grip is a little rought, but its perfect - for me.

Ni, if im not mistaken. Not good writing by far, but I think this might highlight it well enough. I hope..

[strrrng]

Ni, if im not mistaken. Not good writing by far, but I think this might highlight it well enough. I hope..

It doesn't.

[Ali]

It's a black pen with a silver lining. I could use it to write. My dream is to one day write a novel. I'm constantly making whole universes ready in my mind (and on my computer), and then one day the plots of my novels can be carefully launched within those universes. But I need time to write, and unfortunately that has not been possible yet as I work full time and is the mother of two. I think I can manage to work a little less this winter, as I have saved some money to manage, so who knows? Maybe I'll get it done this next year? And that pen is good for writing. I like pen and paper more when I write as I have a hard time overcoming the lure of the Internet if I use my computer in the creative phase.

How this compares to what I've written. I'm giving a character to my pen. I'm also describing the emotions that it creates. I'm not focusing on one instance of the pen, but rather my analogies are flowing in varying instances of the pen (past etc)

What you have written is one static instance of the pen. Your descriptions are more like connections and associations jumping from this instance, you could use it, you have a dream, dream has possibilities, possibilites need time, time is occupied with work etc..your giving a quality to the pen.

If that analysis is correct , of course..

[Ali]

hmm. Can you try and show us strrrng?

[Ali]

ok i just read that and maybe it doesn't.. hmm

[strrrng]

What you have written is one static instance of the pen. Your descriptions are more like connections and associations jumping from this instance, you could use it, you have a dream, dream has possibilities, possibilites need time, time is occupied with work etc..your giving a quality to the pen.

Which is why she's ENFp.

[Ali]

Indeed, which is why she is.

I was asking about, why what I wrote wasn't Ni..

[strrrng]

I was asking about, why what I wrote wasn't Ni..

Because it was just a description. I'm not saying you're not INFp (I don't know your type), but the description didn't illustrate an Ni preference IMO.

[Kristiina]

eh, I'm gonna stick to my opinion that it sounded like Ni. And it doesn't matter anyway, the truth will finally come out, whatever it may be. I wouldn't rush typings.

btw, mimosa, betas are not loud and obnoxious and self-centered, just so you won't assume it.

[mikemex]

I also think we use Ni a lot more that you say.

More than once, when I take a test about the strength of the functions, Ni comes at top being the strongest one, even above Ne.

[Sirena]

Exactly what I was doing. Thanks for pointing this out in my absence, Sirena


EDIT: No, Kristiina, I am afraid I do not understand Ni... probably not at all in fact.

No problem! And as much as I try I cant seem to grasp the concept of Ni either.

[Ezra]

Someone once said that Beta NFs want to be told what to do, whereas Delta NFs want to be told how to do it.

I don't know how true this is. What I do know is that Delta NFs are far more peaceable people than Beta NFs. There is far less passion and energy that arises from them. While IEIs are pretty much introverted in every sense of the word, they still have an intensity which you just don't get with Delta NFs. Consider Minde and glamourama. With Minde, what I get is a very calm, centred individual who wouldn't look out of place at an "all faiths" meeting or something. They're the kind of people you just can't touch because they're such gentle individuals. Even when they're annoyed; they're utterly harmless. However, although IEIs have this kind of quiet edge to them (I don't really know how else to explain it), I don't feel afraid of breaking them, you know? Lying in bed with an EII; I could imagine feeling like I'd have to be really careful with them. But with IEIs, I have few qualms about playing rough. I feel like they can take it, and that they actually enjoy it. Not so much the masochistic side of it (although you probably do encounter some IEI masochists), but more the passion and energy; they feed off the energy a Se ego gives them. EIIs would hate this. They need to be treated with the utmost delicacy.

When it comes down to the extroverts of each quadra, it's a different story, but I think it's even easier to be rougher with the Se HA EIE, and you could treat the IEE with SLIGHTLY - note SLIGHTLY - less care than an EII, but you still have to be far more careful with the Delta NFs than with the Beta NFs. Okay, everyone has a vulnerable heart (even Beta STs), but I feel less like I could offend a Beta NF. I dunno. I just feel more at home with them.

This may not at all help you. My sentiments regarding the NFs of my own quadra and those of the Delta kind are very hard to put into words. You might not understand at all where I'm coming from with all this. In fact, no one might.

[Sirena]

Someone once said that Beta NFs want to be told what to do, whereas Delta NFs want to be told how to do it.

I don't know how true this is. What I do know is that Delta NFs are far more peaceable people than Beta NFs. There is far less passion and energy that arises from them. While IEIs are pretty much introverted in every sense of the word, they still have an intensity which you just don't get with Delta NFs. Consider Minde and glamourama. With Minde, what I get is a very calm, centred individual who wouldn't look out of place at an "all faiths" meeting or something. They're the kind of people you just can't touch because they're such gentle individuals. Even when they're annoyed; they're utterly harmless. However, although IEIs have this kind of quiet edge to them (I don't really know how else to explain it), I don't feel afraid of breaking them, you know? Lying in bed with an EII; I could imagine feeling like I'd have to be really careful with them. But with IEIs, I have few qualms about playing rough. I feel like they can take it, and that they actually enjoy it. Not so much the masochistic side of it (although you probably do encounter some IEI masochists), but more the passion and energy; they feed off the energy a Se ego gives them. EIIs would hate this. They need to be treated with the utmost delicacy.

When it comes down to the extroverts of each quadra, it's a different story, but I think it's even easier to be rougher with the Se HA EIE, and you could treat the IEE with SLIGHTLY - note SLIGHTLY - less care than an EII, but you still have to be far more careful with the Delta NFs than with the Beta NFs. Okay, everyone has a vulnerable heart (even Beta STs), but I feel less like I could offend a Beta NF. I dunno. I just feel more at home with them.

This may not at all help you. My sentiments regarding the NFs of my own quadra and those of the Delta kind are very hard to put into words. You might not understand at all where I'm coming from with all this. In fact, no one might.

Actually, I can see where you're coming from here. I relate to the way you described Delta NF's, particularly IEEs. I've always felt this to be the case with me. I wonder if other Delta NFs relate?

Even though of course, which you find more appealing is a matter of perspective (Quadra values). I would assume Delta STs would find the less edgy, softer, more gentle NFs more appealing. Any comments from Delta STs about this?

[Creepy-]

Actually, I can see where you're coming from here. I relate to the way you described Delta NF's, particularly IEEs. I've always felt this to be the case with me. I wonder if other Delta NFs relate?

Even though of course, which you find more appealing is a matter of perspective (Quadra values). I would assume Delta STs would find the less edgy, softer, more gentle NFs more appealing. Any comments from Delta STs about this?

Ezra:
I also see where you're coming from; that all makes sense to me.

Sirena:
Yes. Beta NF's, though they can be charming, make me feel... drained, after a while. Delta NF's seem more laid-back and accepting [accepting of my non-Fe-ness, I mean], and I feel more comfortable around them in general.

Also [and I am not saying all Beta NF's are like this, nor that no Delta NF's are], I sometimes feel like Beta NF's are trying to manipulate my emotions, which I dislike very much.

[Sirena]

Ezra - I understand where you're coming from, as I have a similar way of making sentiments regarding different types. However, I also think you are right this can't be explained to others. It's about feeling the vibe "in between" you and others, and as we are not you, we can't feel it.



I actually don't relate one bit, but also I think it's impossible to type people based on how Ezra feels about different types in bed. lol.

First of all I'd rather not be told neither WHAT to do nor HOW to do it. Still I'm NF, that much seems certain.

And also I actually like it when people use Se (in a positive way). I still think I'm IEE. I just happen to like Se, maybe because I was raised in a Se-home?

Also, my SLE ex-boyfriends are the only guys I sincerely have only good things to say about.

I think you might be missing the point. I don't think Ezra was suggesting that you can type people entirely based on this, at least that's not how I interpreted it. I also think he was using the bed thing as an example and not basing it on that. He was simply trying to describe the differences in attitudes/personality between Delta NFs and Beta NFs, which speaks to what function they value (Si or Se), I think...and extend further than in the bedroom.

You say you like Se, but as an ENFp-Ne, wouldn't you be less inclined to like Se than even an ENFp-Fi? I just think it's kind of odd that you think you're the subtype that would be less likely to be good at Se. Eh, I'm not saying you're not ENFp because I really don't know. Just some observations.