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Thread: My typeup for discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I typed myself IEE almost immediately after entering this site, based on tests and my understanding of the descriptions.

    However, I'm getting more and more confused.
    (I have a feeling that is not uncommon in here)

    I'm pretty certain I'm NF, probably irrational, but I can't completely exclude NT.

    How should I proceed to figure out my type for certain?
    You should figure out what function you use primarily to understand and deal with your surroundings (extroverted ego function) and which function you use to maintain yourself (introverted ego function).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I typed myself IEE almost immediately after entering this site, based on tests and my understanding of the descriptions.

    However, I'm getting more and more confused.
    (I have a feeling that is not uncommon in here)

    I'm pretty certain I'm NF, probably irrational, but I can't completely exclude NT.

    How should I proceed to figure out my type for certain?
    What is it that confuses you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    We use most functions most of the time, don't we?

    I'm definitely not a sensing person, here's a quote from a message yesterday:


    I guess I talk with and observe people to understand my surroundings. I listen to what they say and how they say things. And I observe how people interact. All the things I hear, say, see, observe, etc. will make a picture that tells me what reality is like.

    Maintain myself? Hard to explain. I'm looking for some kind of internal harmony. I want to understand and be in balance with myself and then I try to figure out how I can bring that understanding into something that could function in the real world.
    Do you tend to feel most confident in how you view the world or in how you view yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Maintain myself? Hard to explain. I'm looking for some kind of internal harmony. I want to understand and be in balance with myself and then I try to figure out how I can bring that understanding into something that could function in the real world.
    So, basically, you're Si hunting. Or Ne leading... So it's pretty much a alpha/delta thing you can't decide on?
    Last edited by xyz; 09-25-2008 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Fucking freudian slips.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    What do you mean by that?
    Do you feel more secure in yourself or in other things?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I'm not sure...?
    I know what I feel about things, both internally and externally, but of course I can't be certain I have seen all information I need to put together the correct picture. Is that what you mean?

    The insecurities I have are rather linked to not being able to see myself in the world. It's my own interaction in the world that is confusing to me at times. How did that person perceive me now? Did my line of thoughts make sense to him? Do I look OK today? etc.
    That sounds pretty to me. If you are more certain about the way you feel about things than yourself that indicates extroverted judging. I think that the important point is not that you cannot see how you fit into the world, but that you are considering how the world makes you seem relative to it and what you must do to fit in (where you are more confident in the world than yourself). This insecurity probably serves as a drive for examining yourself in the context of the world, which is . FWIW I have never seen you exhibit or valuing behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MimosaPudica
    Maintain myself? Hard to explain. I'm looking for some kind of internal harmony. I want to understand and be in balance with myself and then I try to figure out how I can bring that understanding into something that could function in the real world.
    This is pretty good evidence for valuing. Could you elaborate?
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    How should I proceed to figure out my type for certain?
    First you should compare these two descriptions of leading and leading from Rick's site:

    http://www.socionics.us/theory/be.shtml

    http://www.socionics.us/theory/bi.shtml

    That will enable you to decide whether or not you are EIE or IEE. If you find a perfect fit, you are most likely one of those two types.

    Then you should compare the socionic descriptions of the differences between the club of NT Researchers and the club of NF Humanitarians, for example at Lytov's site http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.1.types/index.html

    You should also read David Keirsey's descriptions of the differences betweeen NT Rationals and NF Idealists, which is the exact same divide as the one in Socionics. You can also find very similar (perhaps even better ones) of these differences on MBTI sites.

    That will enable you to decide for sure whether you are an NT or an NF.

    And finally you should study the four dichotomies once again. You should try to dig into their essences to confirm whether you are an Extravert or an Introvert and whether you are a rational J type or an irrational P type.

    If you do all these things, you will definitely know for sure which type you are. It's not that difficult really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Thank you for the explanations!

    Do you have anything specific in mind when saying you haven't seen me exhibit or valuing behavior?

    My initial IEE-typing was based on me being quite hyper-active at times, especially at parties, and the fact that I have done a lot of different things in my life. Also, I seldom rest my mind. I thought that sounded both Ep-temperamental and IEE?
    I only said that I have not seen it, but it is probably b/c we have not interacted enough. The statement you described is confusing b/c it implies self-perception, but it could be b/c you are trying to convey what you have perceived about yourself. However I would expect someone who is -valuing to be more certain/decisive with regard to themselves and their behaviors, such as 'I like to be hyperactive' rather than 'I notice hyperactivity in me'. It is as though you are comparing yourself to hyperactivity rather than choosing to be hyperactive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Balance... I have a lot of internal battles. I often feel like I need to please people and I have problems not choosing what others want over my own wishes. It has caused me to make the wrong choices a lot of times. I should chose what I want, but I end up being "nice" instead, and of course that causes inner pain. Now, I look for a way to balance that in the real world, so I don't bend too much.
    You said you're a 1? I'd say this sounds more 9'ish (possibly also 2 or 6).
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I don't particularly like being hyperactive. It's more a mask I put to have fun when at a party. I'm not in parties THAT often. I don't find myself hyperactive at all.
    It was just an example. BTW you sound more like a 3 than a 1 from this description and what you said about feeling like you needing to please people, being more confident in the world than yourself, and having to continuously search for a balance between your wants with those of others. A 1 probably would not change very much even for a special occasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli
    It was just an example. BTW you sound more like a 3 than a 1 from this description and what you said about feeling like you needing to please people, being more confident in the world than yourself, and having to continuously search for a balance between your wants with those of others. A 1 probably would not change very much even for a special occasion.
    I agree that a 1 wouldn't be like this, but I don't think it makes 3 the most likely type. 2's are compliant to the social norms they believe are expected of them; 6's are compliant to their supporters; 9's try to balance their needs with those of others. Those three types are all more likely than 3. The 3 cares about being admired and puts on a mask, but it isn't to take care of others needs or please them, really.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I agree that a 1 wouldn't be like this, but I don't think it makes 3 the most likely type. 2's are compliant to the social norms they believe are expected of them; 6's are compliant to their supporters; 9's try to balance their needs with those of others. Those three types are all more likely than 3. The 3 cares about being admired and puts on a mask, but it isn't to take care of others needs or please them, really.
    That could still be the case; she said that she feels insecure she just didn't make the explicit link. That would be a good reason for wearing a mask.

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    My personal impression has always been EIE, fwiw.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I think being Fe dominant can easily account for just about anyone's perception of what "irrational" means in Socionics types. There are some very specific elements of being an irrational dominant type that do not apply to Fe dominants (as rationals), but most of the things that people associate with irrationality are very easily attributable to Fe, such as being impulsive, acting on instinct, moodiness, a distaste for perceived monotony, and having a taste for novelty and variety in experience, among other things.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    MP, in regards to your attunement to possibilities and hidden connections between things, does it tend to be oriented more externally towards correlating and synthesizing all the parts to establish a whole, or more based internally, beginning with a subjectively-generated holistic sense of what something 'is' and moving out from there?
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    I think being Fe dominant can easily account for just about anyone's perception of what "irrational" means in Socionics types. There are some very specific elements of being an irrational dominant type that do not apply to Fe dominants (as rationals), but most of the things that people associate with irrationality are very easily attributable to Fe, such as being impulsive, acting on instinct, moodiness, a distaste for perceived monotony, and having a taste for novelty and variety in experience, among other things.
    Eh
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Eh
    Srsly.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Could be.

    I do identify with unefille, so I wouldn't rule the possibility out.

    What should I look for to know, other than the things I have already done?
    Well, similarity with unefille is a starting point. All I can really say is do your best to understand the functions better and read/compare descriptions and see what fits you best.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I find both of them describing me quite well.
    In that case you know that have some serious work to do, because you don't understand the functions yet. Of course there is no point in trying to determine which functions you are using before you understand what they refer to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    This is very true:
    -types pay close attention to the way people say things, the way they talk, their facial expressions, their choice of words, their gestures, and all other external manifestations of one's internal emotional state.
    This is how I would have described myself. The actual words people use are of less importance than the “feel” people give me when they talk. I know the real truth, and people often perceive me a “mind-reader”. When I typed myself IEE, I thought of this as Ne (taking in information and making a picture)
    This is also very true:
    What is characteristic of the thinking of - types is the ability to make connections between things that might not seem related at first glance.
    I consider this one of my strongest sides. I have heard many times that I seem to have psychic powers, as I know exactly what's going on just by intuition. I seem to need very little information to see a clear picture of reality.
    So we have established that you are an NF type and not an NT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Personally, I'm almost 100% certain I'm NF.
    Me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    (I have been labeled NT by people at work, but I think it might be caused by my "professional mask".)
    If I met you in real life, I would be able to tell you for sure which it is, but based on what you say here we know the truth anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I still struggle with the I/E.
    That phenomenon is much more common in E types than in I types. It is probably the influence of your intuition that makes it somewhat harder for you to see clearly that you are an extraverted type. You are most likely an E type, but study the dichotomies until you are certain which it is. View the problem from every angle you can think of, but don't brainwash yourself along the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I think I'm irrational.
    So IEE is still your most likely type. The case for IEE is much, much stronger than for any of the other possible types.

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    This is just a very quick reply, but I think everything you mentioned about pleasing your father sounded much more 9 like than 3. Whilst it can be said (rather reductively) that 3s seek approval from other people, it's never as direct as listening to the demands of others and then seeking to please them. The 3 is quite a narcissistic type and to the extent that you 'achieve' for 'others', it is done indirectly - you're not responding to what they actually want form you, but rather what you yourself think they should want from you. In other words, what guides your actions is not an overt concern with other people's pleasures, wants or desires, but your own interpretation of what the world around you values.

    Your interaction style, where you actively seek various opinions and different viewpoints, acting as an accommodating medium for the disparate perspectives that you gather also seems like a very 9 approach to things. Even if facile, you seem to have a 9ish investment in real consensus, and you engage everyone's viewpoints and seem to assign them equal value.

    It's possible that you might have 3/4 in your trifix, but I think your primary type is 9 with a strong 1 wing.
    ()
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    Material from some site:

    Enneagram Type Three (the Achiever) with Enneagram Type Nine (the Peacemaker)

    What Each Type Brings to the Relationship
    This is a fairly common pairing. Nines bring enormous support, encouragement, and a sense of pride in the Three's accomplishments. Threes can feel that with the Nine behind them, they are able to be themselves, explore their potential, and become the best mate, friend, or professional that they can be. Threes can help Nines to properly value themselves, to have more self-respect, and to invest in their own development. Nines can help Threes relax and find enjoyment in simple things—Nines give them permission to not drive themselves so much. Both types also want to avoid conflicts and to put a positive spin on things—Nines are genuinely optimistic and look on the bright side, while Threes focus on being positive and hopeful, and are careful to not let people see them being down or depressed. Both types are sociable, idealistic, caring for children, animals, and the underdog. Both are usually hard working and want to achieve a degree of material success that will enable them to take care of others in a kind of extended family where everyone would be safe, comfortable, and thriving. They both want a pleasant, aesthetically pleasing home.

    To this mix, Threes bring energy, personal ambition, flexibility, the ability to set and achieve long term goals, and efficiency. Threes energize Nines and bring change and excitement to the relationship. Nines bring a feeling of safety and steadiness, the assurance that the Three is loved for themselves and not just for their achievements, and the feeling of not being judged or evaluated at every moment. Threes feel that they can let down their hair and really be themselves with Nines who accept them just as they are. The sensuality of the Nine and the attractiveness of the Three can meet in a couple highly attracted to each other and attached by physical passion. In other Three-and-Nine couples, the need for comfort and security may be the main source of attachment and the pleasure they get from each other.

    Potential Trouble Spots or Issues
    The Three/Nine couple can almost be a case of "too much of a good thing." Because both types are attracted to keeping the positive values in their lives alive—and there can be so much attachment to comfort and stability in their world—that it becomes difficult to question the status quo and the routines that they get into. Neither wants to bring up conflicts that they have with the other. Nines are more likely not to want to talk about whatever is bothering them for fear of further endangering the relationship. But Threes also do not want to express their complaints because doing so will risk rejection and may also expose the fragility or even the falseness of their relationship. Nines feel that it is better not to say anything and to let things work out on their own, if that is at all possible. If Threes are heavily invested in having a "perfect marriage" to the outside world, it will be difficult to talk about their unhappiness in the relationship or the frustrations they are feeling.

    Often the relationship will continue for a while as if nothing is wrong-even if it is essentially over. Eventually, however, Threes begin to feel unseen and unappreciated, and that the Nine is not really there for them—not really present to the relationship. The Nine may be an excellent provider in a material sense, but under stress, may begin to become emotionally absent. Feeling abandoned or rejected usually makes Threes become depressed, although often they do not realize this since they can get quite out of touch with their emotions. Threes can feel that Nines are stifling them, whereas Nines can feel that Threes are too demanding and are "spoiled." Sometimes a crisis, an affair, or some other major life challenge brings the deterioration of the relationship into awareness. They may go through cycles of breaking up and getting back together, although if the underlying problems are not resolved, the real feelings and frustrations continue and will eventually undermine the relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    lol... Are you comparing my Persona-Ego relation to that of a married couple?

    (that kind of makes me feel a little crazy)

    It does describe my internal battles quite well, though... I'll just start reading the horoscope instead. I see connections everywhere.
    Are you a fucking moron or what? Can't you draw any conclusions of your own? You should focus on and compare the described behaviours and attitudes of each type. They are fairly well and correctly described in this description, and the essential differences between 3s and 9s come to light. If you can't see that you are blind and stupid, and it would be a waste of time to try to help you find your type.

    (Ethical types are often really bad at logical reasoning, that's just a fact.)

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    If you score highly on a 4, you've been typed in person as a 4, sounds above you may have some sort of identity related 4 issue, why are you not a 4?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    (and logical types are sometimes really bad at understanding self irony...)
    Irony has no place in these discussions, if you want them to be serious instead of the extremely low-level chit-chats that is the only kind of discussions the majority of people are capable of having.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I understood your intent. But as you might understand if you reread MY answer, I feel like both - one is my Persona, one is my Ego. I behave like a 3, I feel like a 9.
    And you are proving one of my points. You are not good at logical reasoning, and your judgment is bad as well. How can you not see the obvious differences between 3s and 9s and determine for sure which type you are not? That's insane.

    Every 3 is extraverted. Their typical temperament is EP. It's all about surface for them. They are the opposite of a deep thinker. Prototype is ESTp/ESFp.

    Every 9 is introverted. Every 9 has an IP temperament, and a typical 9 has always Fe in the ego block. Prototype is ISFp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I have no problems seeing the differences between the 9 and the 3 descriptions. Of course I see the differences!!!

    I did explain that I am probably a 9w1, didn't I?
    Why only "probably"? Why can't you tell for sure? Why are you not 100 % certain that you are not a 3 then? You should be if you can see the differences as you say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    However, I sure have traits of a 3 and a 4 as well.
    Irrelevant. You should not focus on details, you should focus on the overall picture. Why is that so difficult for people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Especially my professional "mask" is very much like an E-type 3 (as long as we talk professional matters. If attacked on a personal level, I'll not cope well)
    That's pretty much plain bullshit. If you are a 9 you don't have an E3 mask. Stop thinking like an idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I am pretty sure I'm a 9w1 just based on my inner fixations.
    More bullshit. You should not try to determine your inner fixations. That's just crappy thinking. You should determine your type first, and only after you have done that you can start to discover what your fixations are. You are not in a position to determine your fixations, because you don't understand what they mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I just have a lot more force to me than what is a typical description of a 9, and I think it's caused by pure force of will. I've pushed myself to be assertive and strong for a very long time.
    Irrelevant bullshit again. You should not focus on what you are like right now. You should focus on what you have been like for all your life, most of the time, when you are typically and naturally yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    That inconsistency in behavior is the reason I don't want to nail down 9 completely.
    It is not an inconsistency in behaviour, it is an inability to focus on what is relevant and an inability to draw the correct conclusions from the evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I had some really though childhood experiences that made me "hide" my inner me inside. I know myself very well.
    No, you don't. You don't know yourself at all. If you did, you would know your type by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    But I don't let others know "me". I let them know my Persona.
    Bullshit. You can't hide what you really are, not to a competent socionist anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    It's a defense mechanism. I know it very well. That's why I called myself "Mimosa Pudica" (sensitive plant - withdraws if touched). I protect my inner by having a harder outer.
    Who cares? That's totally irrelevant information. If you know yourself so well, you can disregard your mask and concentrate on what you really are. So stop talking about your persona.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    The whole reason I'm here is to untangle from my social mask and let out my real me. You could say I'd like to merge them, that would be perfect.
    No one is interested in your mask. We are interested in your type. You should be too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Honestly, I am certain I'm not a 3. I just like to hear what other's have to say.
    Bad idea. What's the point of letting them get trapped in delusions when you know the truth? This is not funny. If you know for a fact that you are not a 3, then you should explain clearly and distinctly why you are not a 3 and state it as a fact. People's opinions are totally irrelevant here. You are withholding the real truth with that kind of behaviour. I don't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Have you met me? You should ask someone who has met me, and you'd be surprised. Of course you'd see through my E3-mask, but you'd see it as well. You would be surprised how much Se I can bring out if needed.
    You see through your mask. So don't waste my time with talk about your mask. It is totally irrelevant and should be dismissed as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Not true.
    Don't flatter yourself. You don't know your type, so you don't have a say in this matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    IEI E9
    So you know that you have an IP temperament now? That means that you know that you are not an ENFp or some other non-IP type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Maybe. But you have to agree that since people who know me well, and whom I have asked to read type descriptions, all type me IEI and then the same people say I'm behaving Ep>Ip, there is inconsistency somewhere?
    No. There is no inconsistency. There is only a bunch of people incompetent at typing. You cannot trust your friends on this. They are totally clueless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I agree they are not experts on socionics, but they know ME well.
    Irrelevant. People have the strangest misconceptions of other people, that's a very normal pattern. Most people cannot describe other people objectively and accurately. You must know the types, and neither you nor your friends do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I have also asked people who DO know socionics, who says I seem to be IEI, but my temperament confuses them. The way I feel and the way people describe me is consistent. But it doesn't suit theory. I think I know why, but I am no specialist, so I don't want to say I'm 100% certain.
    You don't understand the difference between extraversion and introversion yet. When you do, you have found your type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Probably not. Type me then!
    If I met you in real life I would. Over the Internet I have to rely on your descriptions of yourself, and they must be logically consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I am. I just don't want to make the same mistake I made when I typed myself IEE E1w9. (that is to misunderstand theory)
    Correct. But if you had listened more to me in the first place, you would have known immediately that you can't be an IEE E1w9. You would never have typed yourself as such type. It's an impossible constellation, and I told you so. But you, like so many others, insisted on your prejudices, you insisted on having the right to your own opinion despite the fact that I knew that you were wrong.

    You haven't studied the types enough, and yet you are arrogant enough to think that you are right. Such an attitude is wrong and extremely irritating to me and other people who are so much more competent at typing correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    This time I want to check my assumptions until there can be no more doubt. The descriptions are good, just not perfect. See?
    The descriptions are not perfect but they are good enough -- if you understand the types.

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    Maybe not a real type description, but rather bombarding you with information that comes to my mind about these kind of people.

    IEE: know how to play people, verbally strong, evolved language, large verbal dictionary. really charming personality. Can react really emotionally if things don't go as they like. Takes things personally. Likes writing with exaggareted visual words e.g.: She wore a once pearly white dress which had gotten a depressed grey tone blended with chocolate brown mud splatters.

    ILE: prone to proving he's smarter then others (one upmanship). likes computers a lot, likes programming. likes discussions. Has extremely many ideas to solve things, make fun of things, do things. Usually slightly nerdy.

    IEI: nearly all are natural born poets. They feel situations, environments and know what will happen. They are usually very inert, or lazy, although they sometimes do there best to adapt.
    In contrary to IEE, who's full with energy, always and everywhere.
    Last edited by Jarno; 10-09-2008 at 01:53 PM.

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    If the difference in how well the descriptions describe you is that obvious, honestly, I wouldn't look any further, except to study the functions for your own personal understanding. However that kind of gap in your tendency to relate to a description IS significant.

    Don't let temperament get in your way; it is an incomplete, somewhat generalized picture of what it attempts to describe: leading functions. If you understand your leading function and identify with it, then temperaments are essentially useless.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    The thing that confuses me is that I'm not at all convinced I'm Ip>Ep when it comes to temperament.

    I have to understand the differences between introversion and extroversion before deciding my type, and so far I haven't found any definitions that make me see it clearly.
    Oke just a random test that comes to my mind. See which fits you best.

    You are sitting with a group of +/- 10 people around a large table. The people then usually can easely be divided in two types.

    Extraverts:
    The people who take care of the talking, although inconspicuously, they start/choose the subjects. They sometimes can be loud or laugh out loud, since they uncounsciously need attention. When these people are not around, then there is little talking.

    Introverts:
    They like it when some extraverts are present at the table, because they like someone else to start with a subject. So they can listen and respond. If extraverts aren't at the table, these people still do talk, but usually only to their neighbour. These people don't like to draw to much attention on them, especially not with large groups like 10 people.

    Another less accurate difference: In case of free choice, Introverts tend to sit at the end / side of the table, Extraverts prefer the middle.

    Which fits your style?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I would seriously rather have a tooth pulled than sit around a table with ten people as a group
    I had a sort of lunch break at work in my mind. Then we usually are obliged to sit with 8 to 10 people. It's not all night, just half an hour.

    But I read some small hints in your respons that would point more toward introversion then extraversion. This could become interesting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post

    Not sure that helped at all.
    All the bits of information help. I'm starting to think you're an IEI althoug I'm a bit reserved in that opinion since you started out typing yourself as an Extravert.

    Ethical types are always people orientated, which make it somewhat more difficult to separate an introvert from an extravert.

    I'll post again if some new useful questions come to my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I don't feel awkward at all going to lunch anymore, but the first 6 months I worked there I actually avoided lunch as I felt terribly awkward going there. And as none of the people from my department ever went, I didn't "have" to for the sake of bonding, so I ate in my office for half a year or so. Then one of the new guys from another department started to bring me for lunch, and by now I have managed to make the other people of my department go as well.

    Not sure that helped at all.
    Probably introvert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    In contrary to IEE, who's full with energy, always and everywhere.
    Huh???
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    <3

    I know you only want me to feel peace at mind, so thank you!

    However... I feel I need to understand this. At the moment, the type I feel I am and the temperament I feel I am, don't tell the same story. The picture doesn't make sense. I have to understand it before settling for a type, and that means I have to understand introversion vs. extroversion.

    I know I'm intuitive. I don't know if I use Ni>Ne as I don't really know the differences. Again I must understand introversion vs. extroversion to be certain to get the differences between the introverted and extroverted elements. If not, I'll just start to project meaning into the descriptions.

    I'm complicated, I know.

    :wink:
    All NFs are strong in Ne and Ni, (and Fe and Fi) so if your'e looking at those IEs it might not be as clear to you as if you look at the functions that are weak. Do you prefer Si or Se? Ti or Te? Try considering those rather than your strong functions and see if things get clearer.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    All NFs are strong in Ne and Ni, (and Fe and Fi) so if your'e looking at those IEs it might not be as clear to you as if you look at the functions that are weak. Do you prefer Si or Se? Ti or Te? Try considering those rather than your strong functions and see if things get clearer.
    You are still saying this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    You are still saying this
    Yes, because this is a Socionics forum, and so people here are presumably still typing using the primary Socionics model.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    OK. I'm not an E3 because other type descriptions suit me a lot better.
    Good. This is a perfect example of the kind of indisputable facts that people just have to accept (and that includes you). It's a starting point, it's a reference point, and it should funciton like an axiom. No one is allowed to dispute it -- unless you start to contradict yourself in the future by saying things that are incompatible with that statement. Now you have to take the consequences of the fact that you know that you are not a 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Also I don't test high scores in E3. However, there are some aspects to the E3-type that describe me in SOME situations, and I guess that is consistent both if I'm an E9w1 (growth) and if I'm an E4w3 (wing).
    Stop speculating. Collect more indisputable facts instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I think I'm probably E9w1 and E4w3 is my only other real alternative. I cannot decide which one as I don't know the theory well enough yet. I know myself, make no mistake there.
    Stop speculating about which Enneagram type you are. Exclude the impossible ones instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Because I don't know other people as well as I know myself, and thus can't compare myself to them and thus fail to see what the theory means in details. I get the big picture of the theory, but I don't get the differential parts. Yet. I am studying. Don't worry.
    Good. Keep studying, stop speculating. Try to collect as many indisputable facts about yourself and your possible type(s) as you can. A good typing process is characterized by eliminations of alternatives, not by reaching out for the most seemingly correct option in the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    You said I should decide. I just wanted to show you I can say whatever. I can't decide until I can see how the theory connects to real life, and it's hard to know what goes on inside other people. I'm working on it (see my introvert/extrovert thread and the enneagram/inner core thread)
    If you can say whatever, you should say nothing. You should state what you know with 100 % certainty that you are not, not what you could be. In the end you will be left with only one alternative, and that will be your correct type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Well, in that case the descriptions are completely stupid. If people can't recognize behavior in behavioral descriptions, I don't see why behavioral descriptions exist. Then it would be better to focus only on internal processes.
    No, no, no, definitely no. The type descriptions are correct, but until you have compared them with real people out in the world and seen exactly how they fit, you don't really understand them. And, basically, you have to understand all the types before you can understand one of them. But to start focusing on internal processes and functions is much, much worse. If you do that you will be lost and a prey to the eager brainwashers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I don't trust people in here, so I don't readily listen to anyone. But you can't say I was not open to read the theory you suggested, and I have changed my opinion based on it. So don't say I didn't listen to you to a certain degree. It's just that "I'm right!" doesn't convince me, whereas "look here's the theory" might.
    Okay, all I am asking is that you refuse to believe what the idiots on this forum are saying and that you study, study, study. And that you don't form definite opinions on anything until you understand them correctly. I am tired of being right all the time. It's frustrating to see that people tend to agree with me in the end, but that their journey to insight is so full of brainwashing, silly mistakes, misunderstandings, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I do not assume I am right. I just don't assume others are neither. I have to understand to accept. I haven't understood yet. Maybe I'm slow, in that case deal with it or not. I can't decide my type until I'm in no doubt.
    Good. Keep that attitude. Don't let yourself be brainwashed. Keep an open mind until you really understand and know for sure that you are right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    So then the descriptions are useless. You have to understand the types to use the descriptions, and when you understand the types, then the descriptions are not needed.
    You also have to have the descriptions in order to understand the types. So they are not useless. You should study them all, you should try to really understand the four dichotomies, you should read articles about biological differences between the types and between for example extraverts and introverts. There is so much material to study that you don't know exists. All these things are connected to life philosophies, life attitudes, values, behaviours, diseases, personality disorders, colour preferences, styles of clothing, art preferences, you name it.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Huh???
    You must be able to realise this general trend in your interaction with your ISTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    You must be able to realise this general trend in your interaction with your ISTp
    Perhaps generally with my husband, but not, as the quote said, "always and everywhere".
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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