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Thread: Why Communism Isn't Inconceivable

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    Default Why Communism Isn't Inconceivable

    Chimps aren't capitalists
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Default Why members of the lower class will initiate change

    Evolution occurs in response to need. The rich don't need.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    You should write a self help book, Gilly.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    I've thought about it. I've also thought about being a therapist, working at a rehab clinic, becoming a religious or spiritual leader/guru/devotee/whatever of some sort, starting a cult, living in an isolated compound surrounded by a group of followers, coercing adherents to strap explosives to themselves and walk into government buildings and then immediately walk out, assassinating the president, and legitimately infiltrating a nuclear weapons facility as a formally trained expert with the aim of detonating enough hydrogen bombs to blow the planet Earth to smithereens.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I've thought about it. I've also thought about being a therapist, working at a rehab clinic, becoming a religious or spiritual leader/guru/devotee/whatever of some sort, starting a cult, living in an isolated compound surrounded by a group of followers, coercing adherents to strap explosives to themselves and walk into government buildings and then immediately walk out, assassinating the president, and legitimately infiltrating a nuclear weapons facility as a formally trained expert with the aim of detonating enough hydrogen bombs to blow the planet Earth to smithereens.
    I'm being 100% serious here:

    Why is it that starting a cult is the one that scares me the most?

    That's quite the list there. Done any of em?
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    I'm being 100% serious here:

    Why is it that starting a cult is the one that scares me the most?
    Because I could probably do it.

    That's quite the list there. Done any of em?
    The two I've come closest to are being a therapist and starting a cult.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Communism is conceivable. The point is that it isn't feasible.

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    Not right now it isn't.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Not right now it isn't.
    Correct. Right now it isn't feasible. Achieve material abundance on a global scale and maybe that will change.

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    Or realize that material sufficiency and comfort is possible for all if people weren't such stubborn fucks.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Oh, and if a bunch of people would die. Overpopulation is an issue.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Or realize that material sufficiency and comfort is possible for all if people weren't such stubborn fucks.
    Therein lies the problem with communism: it relies on too many "if only" sentiments to work.

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    Doesn't everything that isn't actually happening right now? Will nothing ever change? Can we possibly know?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I'm just saying that the circumstances you dictate are not the only ones under which communism might be possible.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm just saying that the circumstances you dictate are not the only ones under which communism might be possible.
    OK, but you just mentioned some global epiphany happening:

    Or realize that material sufficiency and comfort is possible for all if people weren't such stubborn fucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I've thought about it. I've also thought about being a therapist, working at a rehab clinic, becoming a religious or spiritual leader/guru/devotee/whatever of some sort, starting a cult, living in an isolated compound surrounded by a group of followers, coercing adherents to strap explosives to themselves and walk into government buildings and then immediately walk out, assassinating the president, and legitimately infiltrating a nuclear weapons facility as a formally trained expert with the aim of detonating enough hydrogen bombs to blow the planet Earth to smithereens.
    you should write some new thought books. i bet you could make a bomb right now.
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    People are naturally competitive and like to feel better than others though. So even if you could make the poor comforted and happy, you would still see some people think they are better than other people and manipulate/take advantage of them. It's always the outcasts/those on the fringes of society that do the real heroic work in the world, and it always needs to be like that.

    To feel connected with others, you usually want to bring them down the illusionary social status ladder.

    Also it's no surprise that celebs understand both of how the 'make the loser feel better about himself' and how the corporate 'People suck. Money is so cool!' systems work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I've thought about it. I've also thought about being a therapist, working at a rehab clinic, becoming a religious or spiritual leader/guru/devotee/whatever of some sort, starting a cult, living in an isolated compound surrounded by a group of followers, coercing adherents to strap explosives to themselves and walk into government buildings and then immediately walk out, assassinating the president, and legitimately infiltrating a nuclear weapons facility as a formally trained expert with the aim of detonating enough hydrogen bombs to blow the planet Earth to smithereens.
    Congratulations! You are now on a list. Have fun on your next plane flight!
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    "Inconceivable!"
    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Chimps aren't capitalists

    Yes they are. Capitalism is all about free exchange of goods and services, chimps and many other animals are known to practice that. Many animals even store up wealth for themselves, hamsters f.i.

    Communism is about an elite manipulating their minions into restricting your freedom to buy, sell and own. And to live your life your way. All in the name of a muddled and dumb theory. Chimps do not practice that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Chimps aren't capitalists
    One day the third world countries will enter the information age; by then chimps will have evolved to the point of having the capability of providing cheap labor and so will be exploited by humans for profit. Then one day the chimps will engage in revolution and overthrow their masters. Centuries later Charlton Heston will star in Planet of the Apes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    People are naturally competitive and like to feel better than others though. So even if you could make the poor comforted and happy, you would still see some people think they are better than other people and manipulate/take advantage of them. It's always the outcasts/those on the fringes of society that do the real heroic work in the world, and it always needs to be like that.

    To feel connected with others, you usually want to bring them down the illusionary social status ladder.

    Also it's no surprise that celebs understand both of how the 'make the loser feel better about himself' and how the corporate 'People suck. Money is so cool!' systems work.
    You have people who are private about how they live, and public about who they are. You have people who are private about who they are, and public about how they live. Then you have a third group which knows how to be public both about who they are AND how they live. Those are your celebs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    Then one day the chimps will engage in revolution and overthrow their masters. Centuries later Charlton Heston will star in Planet of the Apes.
    And he will destroy the world in Beneth the Planet of the Apes with a cobalt bomb. The apes had it coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    And he will destroy the world in Beneth the Planet of the Apes with a cobalt bomb. The apes had it coming.

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    Communism and Capitalism in their true forms are the same exact thing.
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    Some day, Gilly, you and I are going to sit down, and discuss politics, economics and philosophy at (major) length, like true brilliant minds.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    Communism and Capitalism in their true forms are the same exact thing.
    Um... ...
    Okay, I'll bite: how?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    Um... ...
    Okay, I'll bite: how?
    you just made me laugh so hard I choked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    Um... ...
    Okay, I'll bite: how?

    True capitalism(sourced from original capitalist thought) is an unregulated society, without government intervention. Another system in which people basically do what they want.

    Communist thinkers, especially anarchist communist thinkers believe that true communism exists without the state. Without the state there is no regulation. Without regulation people will do what they want. Communism in that case would be voluntary. People would come together and agree to share resources.

    In a free society, people would be allowed to create communist communities. The freedom still allows the free market.

    Voluntary communism is a result of Freedom/Capitalism. I don't even like the word capitalism, because I kind of think of it as not being a system at all, spontaneous organization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Some day, Gilly, you and I are going to sit down, and discuss politics, economics and philosophy at (major) length, like true brilliant minds.
    yuppie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    True capitalism(sourced from original capitalist thought) is an unregulated society, without government intervention. Another system in which people basically do what they want.

    Communist thinkers, especially anarchist communist thinkers believe that true communism exists without the state. Without the state there is no regulation. Without regulation people will do what they want. Communism in that case would be voluntary. People would come together and agree to share resources.

    In a free society, people would be allowed to create communist communities. The freedom still allows the free market.

    Voluntary communism is a result of Freedom/Capitalism. I don't even like the word capitalism, because I kind of think of it as not being a system at all, spontaneous organization.
    I have never heard of voluntary communism. Who would want their wealth to be redistributed voluntarily?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    yuppie.
    That's what is commonly called a "Reality Show"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    I have never heard of voluntary communism. Who would want their wealth to be redistributed voluntarily?
    Poor people and people that want to help the poor people. Basically helping the poor would be put in the hands of the American citizens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    Poor people and people that want to help the poor people. Basically helping the poor would be put in the hands of the American citizens.
    That is called charity not communism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Some day, Gilly, you and I are going to sit down, and discuss politics, economics and philosophy at (major) length, like true brilliant minds.
    rofl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Some day, Gilly, you and I are going to sit down, and discuss politics, economics and philosophy at (major) length, like true brilliant minds.
    Cool, can we be on heroin when we do it?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    People are naturally competitive and like to feel better than others though.
    This is not true. I think people with lower dopamine levels are generally not as competitive and they seem to be smarter and have better run societies with less corruption, social strife, incidence of violence, etc. Also, I would take a look at this page. It is the script of a daily science snippet that appears on npr. On that broadcast date they were talking about the effects of the gene AVPR-1-alpha on the location of vasopressin receptors in the brain and the effects this has on social behavior vis a vis the "Dictator" game. Perhaps if we mitigated vasopressin production in the brains of individuals with long AVPR-1-alpha genes by turning the gene "off" with RNAi technology we would see a lot less of the current tribal ape-like behavior that seems so common in our leaders and a bit more altruism as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    That is called charity not communism.
    Tell that to anarcho-communists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    Tell that to anarcho-communists.
    Why would an anarchist want to implement a regulatory system to begin with?

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