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Thread: SEIs-ISFps, come hither

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    Default SEIs-ISFps, come hither

    What do you freaks think of the following quote?
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    In the final analysis, ISFps want to optimize their immediate sense of well being, and that is affected by whatever their Fe is catching - on an immediate, short-term and short-space level. Simplistically put, they want to feel good at all times.
    Do you relate to it? If so, what does "feeling good" mean to you? What lengths would you go to to maintain that feeling of well-being? Do you normally seek to stamp out the cause of your discomfort or would you hide from it/ try not to think about it? If it was up to you, would you ever choose conflict over harmony? How do you deal with conflicts when they arise?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I don't worry about feeling good.

    Do you normally seek to stamp out the cause of your discomfort or would you hide from it/ try not to think about it?
    Hide from it.

    If it was up to you, would you ever choose conflict over harmony?
    No, only if I felt morally superior.

    How do you deal with conflicts when they arise?
    Either assert myself in private or allow the aggressor to win.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    I don't seek to feel good all the time - As much as I hate it I need to experience other emotions too, in order to be able to express myself and stimulate others.

    As for conflict/harmony - I feel good when there is harmony, but I wouldn't fight purely for the sake of asthetics...I only ever put up a fight when somebody crosses an ethical boudary, e.g blindly using logical and hurting people's feelings with little concern in the process, doing something horrible for personal gain, etc...

    I think the thing I really do seek out is the ability to have access to those good feelings whenever I want them, but that is a slightly different thing, you see. It is about having the ability to access, interact and engage a special group of people in my life that can do that for me. Without those people I feel quite lost.

    Does that make any sense?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    I don't seek to feel good all the time - As much as I hate it I need to experience other emotions too, in order to be able to express myself and stimulate others.

    As for conflict/harmony - I feel good when there is harmony, but I wouldn't fight purely for the sake of asthetics...I only ever put up a fight when somebody crosses an ethical boudary, e.g blindly using logical and hurting people's feelings with little concern in the process, doing something horrible for personal gain, etc...

    I think the thing I really do seek out is the ability to have access to those good feelings whenever I want them, but that is a slightly different thing, you see. It is about having the ability to access, interact and engage a special group of people in my life that can do that for me. Without those people I feel quite lost.

    Does that make any sense?
    I think so. (c: You're meaning that you don't necessarily have to feel good all the time, but need the security of knowing that there are always people there who care enough to make you feel good or cheer you up when you need it .... that having that feeling of security makes you less needful of having to feel good in the present ??
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Sadly, most of what Expat has been writing of recent has been crap. Some of it is definitely okay, but most of it is just crap.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    Sadly, most of what Expat has been writing of recent has been crap. Some of it is definitely okay, but most of it is just crap.
    well aren't SEIs his conflictors? so maybe that colors things a bit. or do you mean generally speaking?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    well aren't SEIs his conflictors? so maybe that colors things a bit. or do you mean generally speaking?
    Generally speaking. SEIs being his conflictors could color things in that he has a lack of understanding of Si or Alpha in general since they are weaker functions in him.... (possibly a bias too though I'm not pushing that idea) My statement was definitely more generally speaking though.
    Suomea

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    who wants to feel bad all the time? perhaps i'm alpha.
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    I'd say I relate to it, except maybe the optimization aspect. That almost sounds like too much work or effort. I think he may have a point in that it does deal with how one's feeling in an immediate context, but I think always wanting to feel good is a bit of a stretch. There's a kernel of truth in there obviously, though sometimes the feeling good doesn't come from what's traditionally associated with Si. Like even a small dose of conflict can feel exhilirating so long as the mood is right, it happens very infrequently, and there's at least a shot at returning things to an overall better atmosphere (the 'bouncer' effect). More often though, it's far easier and advisable to just remove oneself from whatever it is.
    Moonlight will fall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    Sadly, most of what Expat has been writing of recent has been crap. Some of it is definitely okay, but most of it is just crap.
    Pearls before swine.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Pearls before swine.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Pearls before swine.
    It's good that you think of everything you say as pearls. Perhaps not everyone agrees with those sentiments.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    I'd say I relate to it, except maybe the optimization aspect. That almost sounds like too much work or effort. I think he may have a point in that it does deal with how one's feeling in an immediate context, but I think always wanting to feel good is a bit of a stretch. There's a kernel of truth in there obviously, though sometimes the feeling good doesn't come from what's traditionally associated with Si. Like even a small dose of conflict can feel exhilirating so long as the mood is right, it happens very infrequently, and there's at least a shot at returning things to an overall better atmosphere (the 'bouncer' effect). More often though, it's far easier and advisable to just remove oneself from whatever it is.
    ditto
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Pearls before swine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    Pigs are actually considered to be highly intelligent animals ....
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Supervisor. Not conflictor.
    ??
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I meant, Expat is the supervisor.
    he's LIE - hence the SEI's conflictor
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    What do you freaks think of the following quote?

    Do you relate to it? If so, what does "feeling good" mean to you? What lengths would you go to to maintain that feeling of well-being? Do you normally seek to stamp out the cause of your discomfort or would you hide from it/ try not to think about it? If it was up to you, would you ever choose conflict over harmony? How do you deal with conflicts when they arise?
    Well... I don't know if I would have originally thought of it as "feeling good" but I'm not satisfied unless I'm being productive - so you could say that being productive makes me "feel good" and thus the quote is sort of true for me?

    Great lengths. I hate feeling like I'm not accomplishing anything or doing anything meaningful or working towards something greater.

    I can't NOT think about something that's bothering me. It's a constant nag. I have to resolve it asap.

    Never conflict> harmony. No. Unless it was an issue of SERIOUS personal value to me.

    How do I deal with conflict? I do my best to differ the conflict. Sometimes that means being a "wimp" and giving in, sometimes it means walking away....er
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
    John Muir

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    In the final analysis, ISFps want to optimize their immediate sense of well being, and that is affected by whatever their Fe is catching - on an immediate, short-term and short-space level. Simplistically put, they want to feel good at all times.
    Ugh. Now granted I'm not an ISFp, but I can't think of any other word for this than "patronizing." The profound lack of depth expressed in these few sentences is offensive to my and everyone else's sensibilities.

    JRiddy
    —————King of Socionics—————

    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Supervisor. Not conflictor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    ??
    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I meant, Expat is the supervisor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    he's LIE - hence the SEI's conflictor
    @Jem: I believe you're missing dolphin's point. She means that she thinks I'm LSE - as per Ashton's and Steve's model(s) - hence the SEI's supervisor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    It's good that you think of everything you say as pearls. Perhaps not everyone agrees with those sentiments.
    Objectively speaking, I do not. If I look back at things I wrote previously, I can find plenty of things I wish I had phrased differently, or had thought more about before putting in writing, or that I find just incorrect.

    However, it's one thing to say, "what you are saying is incorrect because of this and that" - and then we can talk about it, or agree to disagree - and another thing to say, "what you have written is crap". In the latter case, answers like my "pearls before swine" are appropriate in my judgement, and I will continue to give them in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Ugh. Now granted I'm not an ISFp, but I can't think of any other word for this than "patronizing." The profound lack of depth expressed in these few sentences is offensive to my and everyone else's sensibilities.
    I did not write that with the slightest intention of offending ISFps or anyone else. On occasion I write things that are derisory to particular individuals, but I have never, ever, written anything with the intention of offending all individuals that are of a type - even as I have been accused of doing that regarding INFps, ENFjs, ESFps, ISFjs, INFjs, etc.

    What I have said was a simplistic summing up of what Si+Fe means. Previously - ages ago - I put it as , "if people around me are in a happy mood, I feel good", and at the time nobody was offended.

    Now, maybe the way I put it now is incorrect, wrong, or due to my misunderstanding of ISFps, Alphas, Fe, Si - whatever. In that case, we can talk about it, if we care to.

    However, to argue with, or just say, "what you have said is patronizing and lacking sensibility" - I'm not sure what those who say that are trying to achieve. To stop me from giving my opinion - right or wrong - on socionics types? It will never achieve that, let me assure you.

    This is a good example of - "clash", by the way. sees me as being a patronizing, insensitive person; I see as in
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Still on this --

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Ugh. Now granted I'm not an ISFp, but I can't think of any other word for this than "patronizing." The profound lack of depth expressed in these few sentences is offensive to my and everyone else's sensibilities.
    I am amazed at your taking for granted that you know what everyone else's sensibilities find offensive.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Ugh. Now granted I'm not an ISFp, but I can't think of any other word for this than "patronizing." The profound lack of depth expressed in these few sentences is offensive to my and everyone else's sensibilities.
    ISFps are deep?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    ISFps are deep?


    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
    John Muir

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    Quote Originally Posted by calenwen View Post


    I have a long stick.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Be careful not to hit yourself with it.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Objectively speaking, I do not. If I look back at things I wrote previously, I can find plenty of things I wish I had phrased differently, or had thought more about before putting in writing, or that I find just incorrect.
    Yeah, for the most part you seem like a reasonable guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    However, it's one thing to say, "what you are saying is incorrect because of this and that" -and then we can talk about it, or agree to disagree - and another thing to say, "what you have written is crap". In the latter case, answers like my "pearls before swine" are appropriate in my judgement, and I will continue to give them in the future.
    My lack of depth in regards to your response and other responses on this board of recent mainly has to do my percieved lack of the moderators doing their job. I really don't see any reason to post constructively when other posters on this forum are not being treated with respect, and moderators are for the most part at least in my eyes apathetic. I don't like how the rules, or the application of the rules has suddenly changed or been ignored. Sorry if my lack of writing annoys you. I'd normally be happy to discuss ideas with anyone.

    However, I also don't like people for the most part to be publicly misinformed. So my post(s), while not necessarily publicly useful to everyone, might have some applicability to someone who disagrees with certain things being written and is looking for a differing viewpoint. Maybe, maybe not. Oh well.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Be careful not to hit yourself with it.
    Is that what you'd do in my position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    Yeah, for the most part you seem like a reasonable guy.



    My lack of depth in regards to your response and other responses on this board of recent mainly has to do my percieved lack of the moderators doing their job. I really don't see any reason to post constructively when other posters on this forum are not being treated with respect, and moderators are for the most part at least in my eyes apathetic. I don't like how the rules, or the application of the rules has suddenly changed or been ignored. Sorry if my lack of writing annoys you. I'd normally be happy to discuss ideas with anyone.
    You can't blame others for your lack of action. Yeah, maybe there are wars. Maybe people kill each other. Right here, right now. No-one's going to die - and you may as well speak up.

    Rules change. If all the rules lay dormant then we couldn't adapt to changes in circumstances. And the measure of a man, is not how he does under moments of relaxation .. but when the chips are down, the anti's up. Will he keel over and die, or stand strong in the face of adversity.

    Stop apologising, and take a stand.

    However, I also don't like people for the most part to be publicly misinformed. So my post(s), while not necessarily publicly useful to everyone, might have some applicability to someone who disagrees with certain things being written and is looking for a differing viewpoint. Maybe, maybe not. Oh well.
    If you believe it speak it. If you doubt yourself, others will doubt you.

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    I'm gonna be honest and say that I was basically really bored when I posted this. But I want to actually get back into discussing things on this forum, so I'm gonna respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Objectively speaking, I do not [think of everything I say as pearls]. If I look back at things I wrote previously, I can find plenty of things I wish I had phrased differently, or had thought more about before putting in writing, or that I find just incorrect.

    However, it's one thing to say, "what you are saying is incorrect because of this and that" - and then we can talk about it, or agree to disagree - and another thing to say, "what you have written is crap". In the latter case, answers like my "pearls before swine" are appropriate in my judgement, and I will continue to give them in the future.
    Point taken that it's not very useful to respond with an off-handed dismissal of your (or anyone's) points. And really, it's pretty easy to develop some form of this attitude: "Ah, well, they're not going to accept what I have to say anyways, so why bother. I will just have to be content with them being wrong." I know I've thought and felt that way many times before. So I won't fault you for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    I did not write that with the slightest intention of offending ISFps or anyone else. On occasion I write things that are derisory to particular individuals, but I have never, ever, written anything with the intention of offending all individuals that are of a type - even as I have been accused of doing that regarding INFps, ENFjs, ESFps, ISFjs, INFjs, etc.
    Well, again, it's very easy to be biased towards one's own type or quadra, and even easier for those biases to come across to others whether they were present in the source or not. I don't think you had any intent of offending anyone either...that's not your style, and I'm quite confident that your intent was to be instructive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    What I have said was a simplistic summing up of what Si+Fe means. Previously - ages ago - I put it as , "if people around me are in a happy mood, I feel good", and at the time nobody was offended.

    Now, maybe the way I put it now is incorrect, wrong, or due to my misunderstanding of ISFps, Alphas, Fe, Si - whatever. In that case, we can talk about it, if we care to.
    Again, I don't really mean to suggest that there's not some truth in what you say about ISFps. The piece I got was certainly out of context, and I just kinda wanted to start a little fight, and to that end I was successful. And I just said "profound lack of depth" because the irony in that phrase makes me laugh inside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    However, to argue with, or just say, "what you have said is patronizing and lacking sensibility" - I'm not sure what those who say that are trying to achieve. To stop me from giving my opinion - right or wrong - on socionics types? It will never achieve that, let me assure you.
    That would be fairly pathetic of me to attempt to stop you from giving your opinion by calling you patronizing. Also, in my mind, getting someone I disagree with to just go away would not be much of a victory, but would leave me with a bitter taste in the mouth. No, I prefer to try and convince people to come around to my way of seeing things, or better yet, engender a beneficial integration of views that leads to clearer understanding all around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    This is a good example of - "clash", by the way. sees me as being a patronizing, insensitive person; I see as in
    I don't know if that's really a true Te v. Fe clash, especially since Ti and Fi seem to clash in a similar way. I don't see your actions as insensitive so much as I see your characterizations as narrow and your attitude as moralizing and superior. This is what I really would like to address.

    The way you describe ISFps makes them sound very shallow. And while an ISFp, like any other type, can be shallow, I get really tired of this idea of ISFPs as quiet hedonists, content in their enjoyment of simple, superficial pleasures. Clearly I will see them differently than you will because of my type, but saying something like, "Simplistically put, they want to feel good at all times," in an attempt to encapsulate your description sounds like a casually dismissive and superior attitude. It was to this that I reacted in an admittedly knee-jerk fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Still on this --

    I am amazed at your taking for granted that you know what everyone else's sensibilities find offensive.
    Hehe...it's that Fe hidden agenda. Or...something?

    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    ISFps are deep?
    Haha...deeper than you'll ever know

    JRiddy
    —————King of Socionics—————

    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    what is the point of getting angry over it. It's not a big mark on my forehead, WATCH OUT HEDONIST.

    Being happy all the time is impossible.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Yeah. Honestly I'm amazed at this too. I've noticed that, in general, SEIs don't really seem to care when ppl say the sort of stuff Expat says about them. They just go "" etc. Make a joke about it. I get the feeling that they're going to laugh it off, then go down a couple of beers to chase away the sting. It's almost like, they can't really defend themselves against it properly, or get angry about it, because inside they actually do feel that way. Maybe.
    No - it's because trying to proclaim your "deepness" to the world is just a pathetic exercise no matter who you are.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Nobody's proclaiming "deepness". I'm talking about fair representation. That's no excuse to subvert to someone else's erroneous perception, judgement, and promotion of how you are as a person or a type.
    Feeling good at all times? Uh ... how do you argue against that? It's such a vague and wishy-washy statement that it could apply to anyone. What is Expat's definition of "good" anyway? I can't say I don't want to always feel good ... but I do find it rather offensive to be summed up like that - like that encapsulates my motivations as a person. I'd exterminate myself if I thought that's what I was about.
    Last edited by Rubicon; 09-25-2008 at 05:34 AM.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    calenwen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    No it's not angry. You don't have to get angry to prove somebody wrong, or correct an erroneous statement. This a Socionics forum. And I find it hard to believe that human beings are like what ISFps are described as. But they don't seem to make any effort to correct what they're being portrayed as. When I thought I was ISFp, I challenged all that shit. But no one else seemed to care.
    Meh. I agree with you in that I disagree with a lot of the stuff that is said about SEIs and I don't challenge it or try to correct it - mostly because from what I've seen so far on this forum as far as arguments go.... it seems pointless.
    Not the best attitude, I know.
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
    John Muir

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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    This is how I see it. From the SEI's point of view, the future hinges on the present. If things are not on track regarding their goals, if they're feeling depressed, etc - the future also looks miserable. Hence there's no point in living. So it's important for them to feel good about what they're doing in the present, how they view the future in the present. Doesn't mean that they're looking to feel happy all the time. They just need to feel there's hope. Hope based on reality. So engaging in conflicts that look like they'll never be resolved seem like a pointless exercise to them. What's the point of slinging around bad feelings if something worthwhile doesn't come of it? Might as well just hit each other over the head a few times and be done with it.

    I think indulging in immediate satisfaction while disregarding the consequences can be more of a temptation for them than other types, because when the future looks bleak they think "what the heck - my life's pointless anyway" - but I think this is the behaviour of an unhealthy SEI - certainly not behaviour that sums them up by any means. To say that they live for these moments of superficial pleasure, that they get any sort of real satisfaction out of them is just completely false.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  34. #34
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    WHEN I can be bothered, I guess the only way I see of correcting those perceptions is to explain the motivations and feeling behind the actions that are causing the judgment to be made. But most of the time I deem that as far too "boring".

    Granted that mindset does kinda suck because there are a lot of people out there who judge me negatively based on misperception, but I just don't have the motivaton, it's weird. I always seem to be more concerned with making sure everyone I care about is "ok" rather than pointing out that "I" care and "I" am the one making it "ok". I'd rather see people happy then have them treat me properly, even though it hurts me when I don't get treated right. I feed off the wellbeing of others, it means more to be than reputation.

    So I guess I should challenge it more, but it just isn't a natural focus.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Feeling good at all times? Uh ... how do you argue against that? It's such a vague and wishy-washy statement that it could apply to anyone. What is Expat's definition of "good" anyway? I can't say I don't want to always feel good ... but I do find it rather offensive to be summed up like that - like that encapsulates my motivations as a person. I'd exterminate myself if I thought that's what I was about.
    Which is why it was offensive.


    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Ugh. Now granted I'm not an ISFp, but I can't think of any other word for this than "patronizing." The profound lack of depth expressed in these few sentences is offensive to my and everyone else's sensibilities.
    You pointed out the problem. Are you willing to fix it? I'd love to hear you re-word it so that it captures the depth fully and isn't patronizing.
    Last edited by Robot; 09-25-2008 at 08:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    Pop psychology isn't rocket science.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    My lack of depth in regards to your response and other responses on this board of recent mainly has to do my percieved lack of the moderators doing their job. I really don't see any reason to post constructively when other posters on this forum are not being treated with respect, and moderators are for the most part at least in my eyes apathetic. I don't like how the rules, or the application of the rules has suddenly changed or been ignored. Sorry if my lack of writing annoys you. I'd normally be happy to discuss ideas with anyone.
    That is one of the most childish, self-centred, immature posts I have ever seen - made worse because you actually think you are being justified, rather than knowing you are being a jerk.

    So, the only two active moderators - implied and myself - who, by the way, do this "job" on a pure voluntary basis - are not "doing their job" according to your expectations. So your decision is to cease to be constructive yourself.

    It's exactly like a child saying, "well I don't like the way others are behaving, but since others are not preventing them from behaving badly, I will cease to behave well myself".

    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    However, I also don't like people for the most part to be publicly misinformed. So my post(s), while not necessarily publicly useful to everyone, might have some applicability to someone who disagrees with certain things being written and is looking for a differing viewpoint. Maybe, maybe not. Oh well.
    And your "different viewpoint" is to say, sagely, "what [someone else] is saying is crap". I am sure that some people, who were in danger of being misled by my remarks on ISFps, will have found that comment very useful, as in "oh wow! I was about to believe Expat, but Suomea has warned us that what he says is crap. Thanks Suomea!"

    I daresay that is hardly going to be "applicable".

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Point taken that it's not very useful to respond with an off-handed dismissal of your (or anyone's) points. And really, it's pretty easy to develop some form of this attitude: "Ah, well, they're not going to accept what I have to say anyways, so why bother. I will just have to be content with them being wrong." I know I've thought and felt that way many times before. So I won't fault you for that.
    Thanks for "not faulting me for that", I was getting nightmares about the opposite possibility .

    My "attitude" is of not regarding as worthy of a real reply those who do not make comments worthy of reply. Why should I care about whether someone who has nothing useful to say "accepts what I have to say" or not? I don't. That is the origin of my "pearls before swine" remark.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    That would be fairly pathetic of me to attempt to stop you from giving your opinion by calling you patronizing. Also, in my mind, getting someone I disagree with to just go away would not be much of a victory, but would leave me with a bitter taste in the mouth. No, I prefer to try and convince people to come around to my way of seeing things, or better yet, engender a beneficial integration of views that leads to clearer understanding all around.
    Which means that your comment about my being patronizing and "everyone else's sensibilities" had no purpose whatsoever?


    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    I don't see your actions as insensitive so much as I see your characterizations as narrow and your attitude as moralizing and superior. This is what I really would like to address.
    Well, you did say that what I said disturbed "everyone's sensibilities".

    As for my attitude being "moralizing and superior", ok. But that's still better than "degenerate and inferior".

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    The way you describe ISFps makes them sound very shallow. And while an ISFp, like any other type, can be shallow, I get really tired of this idea of ISFPs as quiet hedonists, content in their enjoyment of simple, superficial pleasures. Clearly I will see them differently than you will because of my type, but saying something like, "Simplistically put, they want to feel good at all times," in an attempt to encapsulate your description sounds like a casually dismissive and superior attitude. It was to this that I reacted in an admittedly knee-jerk fashion.
    My problem with your reaction was not that it was "knee-jerk", but that it was silly, as per my previous comments.

    If I try to summarize a type - any type - in one brief sentence, of course it will be simplistic. That is painfully obvious. What should be obvious, but obviously it isn't to some people, is that one single sentence is not all that there is to my understanding (right or wrong) of a type.

    If someone says "the way you said it in that one phrase is too simplistic and leads to misinterpretation", that is fine.

    But the reaction in everyone in this thread seems to have been, "how could you have said that about ISFps? You're so insensitive!" And the only reaction this kind of comment can get from me is even more of a "casually dismissive and superior attitude".


    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Hehe...it's that Fe hidden agenda. Or...something?
    I see it as more like Fi PoLR, but in the end it all amounts to the same thing.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  37. #37
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Expat, could you explain what you meant by "feeling good at all times"?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    If I try to summarize a type - any type - in one brief sentence, of course it will be simplistic. That is painfully obvious. What should be obvious, but obviously it isn't to some people, is that one single sentence is not all that there is to my understanding (right or wrong) of a type.

    If someone says "the way you said it in that one phrase is too simplistic and leads to misinterpretation", that is fine.

    But the reaction in everyone in this thread seems to have been, "how could you have said that about ISFps? You're so insensitive!" And the only reaction this kind of comment can get from me is even more of a "casually dismissive and superior attitude".
    I wasn't going to respond to you directly Expat, but I think I will.

    Ahem. The way you said it in that one phrase is too simplistic and leads to misinterpretation.

    Also, if you're wanting some understanding as to why people reacted the way they did I think it's because:

    A) People often don't like being summed up. They just don't. People are complex and "deep" and often want to be known as such.

    B) It was probably flat out incorrect for most ISFps...the thing is the point of summing up a type is to capture their essence and although what you said has truth in it, it is not what most ISFps would consider their "essence" to be.

    You summed up what they do, not what they're all about. With Si and Fe in their ego block they can, want to, and do skillfully derive pleasure from and create enjoyable things/atmospheres/whatever. However, it's not necessarily what an ISFp is all about.

    And what are ISFps all about? It's varies from individual to individual of course but I'm sure you'll find that in a great deal of cases adhering to their value system and being loyal to those they care about are some of the things that are much more important to them than feeling good all the time and thus closer what they're all about than wanting to feel good all the time.


    Also, YOU are not insensitive, Expat. And I'm pretty sure that it's evident. Sometimes people have problems with they way you say things. That's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    Pop psychology isn't rocket science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robot View Post
    A) People often don't like being summed up. They just don't. People are complex and "deep" and often want to be known as such.
    Right -- so when discussing socionics types - which are meant to, yes, sum up all of mankind in 16 types, and describe their psychology in 16 functions -- we have to account for the "complexity and depth" of every individual? How?

    @Jem: I will reply to your question, give me some time.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Right -- so when discussing socionics types - which are meant to, yes, sum up all of mankind in 16 types, and describe their psychology in 16 functions -- we have to account for the "complexity and depth" of every individual? How?

    @Jem: I will reply to your question, give me some time.
    Lol Expat I have no idea how and I don't see any point in it. I was just pointing out that people don't like it. If summing up a type is done correctly and they still don't like it, it's their problem and they can leave!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    Pop psychology isn't rocket science.

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