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  • illusionary

    9 33.33%
  • semi-dual

    13 48.15%
  • neither/don't know/no opinion

    5 18.52%
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Thread: Which do you prefer: Mirage or Semi-duality?

  1. #1
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Default Which do you prefer: Mirage or Semi-duality?

    which do you tend to prefer/have better relations with/get along with more/etc.?

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    I get along with both equally as well, I think.
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    edited: the "neither" is supposed to convey that, I guess; meaning that neither is preferred over the other. guess it's confusing, sorry. you can vote the third one.
    For me Semi-duality is more rewarding but gives more problems, illusionary is at times boring but easier and more stable.
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit View Post
    For me Semi-duality is more rewarding but gives more problems, illusionary is at times boring but easier and more stable.
    This sounds about right, although I have tended to have more longer-term friendships with semi-duals rather than illusionaries, and I've never had a romantic relationship with either.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    i think these are typically more quadra-based.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i think these are typically more quadra-based.
    Niffweed, could you expand on this please?

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    Could there be subtype difference as well?

    I've had exactly the opposite experience to the above: I usually find my semi-dual dull (I barely register them or their actions and find it easy to forget who they are, for instance) but our relationships are 'steadier'. On the other hand, I usually find my illusionaries a lot of 'fun' and the relationship takes off faster, but is more frustrating.

    LII fades into the woodwork too easily for me and ESI feels a bit too 'intense'. Particularly the way they look at you. Like they're looking past you and evaluating your soul. *shivers*
    Last edited by unefille; 09-22-2008 at 01:50 AM.
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    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    which do you tend to prefer/have better relations with/get along with more/etc.?
    Equally well with both I think, but semi-duals usually make for easier (but not necessarily better) long-term relationships.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I tend to get along more consistently better with semi-duals - there's rarely conflict, but sometimes there's a bit of indifference and/or lack of initiative. I have more varied experiences with ISTjs - with some I don't get along well with at all, with others I can become very good friends.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    i get along way better with ENFps than ESTps.
    illusionary.
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Could there be subtype difference as well?
    The question is always, which subtype theory do you mean.

    But, anyway, yes: with LSI as your dual, you'd presumably have a better relationship with a LII who focuses much more on Ti than on Ne; and with an ESI who focuses more on Se than on Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    I've had exactly the opposite experience to the above: I usually find my semi-dual dull (I barely register them or their actions and find it easy to forget who they are, for instance) but our relationships are 'steadier'. On the other hand, I usually find my illusionaries a lot of 'fun' and the relationship takes off faster, but is more frustrating.

    LII fades into the woodwork too easily for me and ESI feels a bit too 'intense'. Particularly the way they look at you. Like they're looking past you and evaluating your soul. *shivers*
    This is good. It is similar for me, except that I don't find my semi-duals "dull" -- I find that they are excellent friends and companionship to discuss things and to spend time with, and whom I can trust totally -- but they do not really help me much to achieve anything. My illusionaries are best in that, but there is always a disconnect when we're just discussing things and exchanging ideas.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Mirage vs Semi-duality relationships

    This ties in with Ezra's poll on quadra relationships. I think I know 2 ISFps and I get on quite well with them both so I do think that activity relationships are second in terms of compatibility after duality, followed by LII. Next, I think it would probably be a tie between LSE and ILE, which is what bugs me since from the name, I would assume semi-duality would trump mirage (and possibly identity and mirror).

    What I find though is that EIE expect (and in some ways give off) more Se "vibes" than I am comfortable with. Reading wikisocion, I saw the whole moth and flame description and I can attest to that. Their Fe is very direct, and it always feels like I am being forced to be happy/excited etc. rather than 'gently led there' as with alpha SFs.

    Does anyone else get this feeling, or the equivalent depending on type, with their semi-duals? I just think that the name is slightly misleading...
    LII?

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    Semi-duality is wonderful, but with a sting; mirage is rather nice, and harmless. Do you want peace or joy?



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    I agree, buckland; I'm the same way. And Brilliand's description is quite good.

    Somewhere else on this forum the possibility was mentioned that which you prefer (Semi-Duality or Mirage) may depend on your subtype. An irrational subtype LII would prefer LSE types, while a rational subtype LII would prefer EIE types. It holds true for me; as an irrational subtype LII I find I prefer the relaxation of LSE types to the drama of EIE types.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Hard question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I agree, buckland; I'm the same way. And Brilliand's description is quite good.

    Somewhere else on this forum the possibility was mentioned that which you prefer (Semi-Duality or Mirage) may depend on your subtype. An irrational subtype LII would prefer LSE types, while a rational subtype LII would prefer EIE types. It holds true for me; as an irrational subtype LII I find I prefer the relaxation of LSE types to the drama of EIE types.
    This is very interesting. Does this work the same way for all the types (the irrational, in this case with Ne, being attracted the the one that displays the counter-function, in this case Si)? Would an ILI-Ni be more attracted to SLE than IEE, for instance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    This is very interesting. Does this work the same way for all the types (the irrational, in this case with Ne, being attracted the the one that displays the counter-function, in this case Si)? Would an ILI-Ni be more attracted to SLE than IEE, for instance?
    Yes; however, it isn't only a matter of which you like better, but of which you need more at the time. I think that moving between your mirage and semi-dual will be more comfortable than staying with either one.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckland View Post
    This ties in with Ezra's poll on quadra relationships. I think I know 2 ISFps and I get on quite well with them both so I do think that activity relationships are second in terms of compatibility after duality, followed by LII. Next, I think it would probably be a tie between LSE and ILE, which is what bugs me since from the name, I would assume semi-duality would trump mirage (and possibly identity and mirror).

    What I find though is that EIE expect (and in some ways give off) more Se "vibes" than I am comfortable with. Reading wikisocion, I saw the whole moth and flame description and I can attest to that. Their Fe is very direct, and it always feels like I am being forced to be happy/excited etc. rather than 'gently led there' as with alpha SFs.

    Does anyone else get this feeling, or the equivalent depending on type, with their semi-duals? I just think that the name is slightly misleading...
    the problem i run across w semi duals is that they expect Fi. and i so can't do that. the other problem is that i really need Fe, which they so can't do. essentially the problem is too much logic for me w semi duals. i guess this follows my having been married to an SLE for a long time though. so it could be that when you are younger you will go with semi dual. i mean SLE is not my semi dual, but what attracted me to him the most was his sensing/practicality. plus SLE is a little bit of a people pleaser, so his Se had a caretaking aspect to it. at least for a number of years.

    with illusionary, the fit is a little more smooth since your role is their dual seeking and vice versa...i'm much more confident in role function than in polr. with illusionary the ethics/Fe balances out my logic in a way that works really well. on the other side of the coin though you can get into misunderstandings about Ne vs Ni. these take time to iron out.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    the problem i run across w semi duals is that they expect Fi. and i so can't do that. the other problem is that i really need Fe, which they so can't do. essentially the problem is too much logic for me w semi duals. i guess this follows my having been married to an SLE for a long time though. so it could be that when you are younger you will go with semi dual. i mean SLE is not my semi dual, but what attracted me to him the most was his sensing/practicality. plus SLE is a little bit of a people pleaser, so his Se had a caretaking aspect to it. at least for a number of years.

    with illusionary, the fit is a little more smooth since your role is their dual seeking and vice versa...i'm much more confident in role function than in polr. with illusionary the ethics/Fe balances out my logic in a way that works really well. on the other side of the coin though you can get into misunderstandings about Ne vs Ni. these take time to iron out.
    Add to that that you're probably creative subtype after spending so much time with an SLE.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Add to that that you're probably creative subtype after spending so much time with an SLE.

    could be...why do you say that? i mean, i think i agree that i'm prolly creative subtype. i don't know if it's because of him though? i've just come to conclude that there are not that many good practical applications in life for Ne leading.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    could be...why do you say that? i mean, i think i agree that i'm prolly creative subtype. i don't know if it's because of him though? i've just come to conclude that there are not that many good practical applications in life for Ne leading.
    He consistently takes better than , and you can do either... so over time you're going to favor over , at least in outward expression. That's basically what a subtype is.

    As for your statement that it isn't practical, I think that you're seeing through the eyes of there... you don't use to control what is, you use to see through what is to what might be. Thus you escape the constraints of the environment and can potentially bring into being some amazing yet simple things that have been discarded by other people. (The act of bringing it into being tends to require help.)



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Johari

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    semi duality is better than mirage.

    Your leading function is most determining and is perfect in semi duality and fucked in mirage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    semi duality is better than mirage.

    Your leading function is most determining and is perfect in semi duality and fucked in mirage.
    when you are younger you will naturally gravitate toward DS more than HA.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    when you are younger you will naturally gravitate toward DS more than HA.
    Oh? Do you have any theories as to why this is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Oh? Do you have any theories as to why this is?
    yes. but not all that well thought out. so anything i write is kind of tentative, and i'm open to discussion and brainstorming. so i don't want to hear any shit about how these ideas aren't fully fledged. no they are not fully developed. i know that already.

    everbody has a limited amount of time on the planet and everybody has a lifespan where different things become important and then fade away as other things become more important. so, theoretically and practically, there are a couple different kinds of needs:

    1. socionic needs (DS & HA)
    2. developmental needs (trust vs mistrust, initiative vs guilt, all those)
    3. Maslow's needs (basic, safety, belonging, etc)
    4. spiritual/life purpose needs (what am i here to contribute? what is my spiritual purpose?)

    then there are pools of people who are available to get into relationships with. and you are picking people who dovetail with you on all those 4 levels, not just socionic. so, often times, there will be some compromise between factors on all these levels. i'm saying that when you are young, your DS needs are the greatest, most unconscious, and most pressing, so this socionic need will be more salient than that of the HA early on. like, if you have to pick between DS and HA, you'll pick DS.

    that list is pretty tall, if you think about it. alot to try to put together with one person. and the pool of available people to have relationships with begins to grow smaller as you age. it's like a sale at macy's: all the good stuff is gone on the first day of the sale.

    so a person can end up with somebody who meets alot of their nonsocionic needs and some of their socionic needs. but regardless, you become strengthened by being with someone who meets any of your socionic needs. once you are strengthened, it frees you to experience other kinds of relationships that meet different needs, such as HA.

    at this point in my life, i've experienced the consequence of a lack of assistance with HA/polr, so that need is much more salient to me right now (along with many other non socionic needs). with DS, it's much less pressing since i've been strengthened.

    some people are destined to be with their duals in 50 year marriages. others are not. when you get married, you enter into an unwritten, unconscious contract of sorts. when the contract is fulfilled the marriage is over and you move on to the next relationship.

    i don't know what the larger reason is that some people easily find and choose their duals and others do not. i suspect it has something to do with spiritual purpose and also family upbringing: who is the most supported person? who gets to be the winner in the family? what kinds of families produce offspring who all "win"?

    and, perhaps most important of all, what is "winning"? man defines winning one way, our spiritual disciplines, if they care about winning at all, probably define it completely differently.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    when you are younger you will naturally gravitate toward DS more than HA.
    I'm 33 and I like DS

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    It lasted longer w the ILI-Te [my mirage], but that was at least partly because of non-socionics factors entering in.
    yeah we Te subtypes have big cocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I'm 33 and I like DS
    yeah, exactly, you're young.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    yeah we Te subtypes have big cocks.
    do you really think so?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Somewhere else on this forum the possibility was mentioned that which you prefer (Semi-Duality or Mirage) may depend on your subtype. An irrational subtype LII would prefer LSE types, while a rational subtype LII would prefer EIE types. It holds true for me; as an irrational subtype LII I find I prefer the relaxation of LSE types to the drama of EIE types.
    Could you explain this further? I'm still new to socionics and don't follow this fully. Why would an irrational LII prefer mirage while a rational LII prefer semi-duality?

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    Imo,

    Rational: Semi-dual
    Irrational: Mirage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevero View Post
    Could you explain this further? I'm still new to socionics and don't follow this fully. Why would an irrational LII prefer mirage while a rational LII prefer semi-duality?
    Honestly, that was a while ago and I don't really remember. I don't think I would agree with it anymore, anyway. It was just an idea I'd found and was toying with at the time, but which didn't really pan out. I've accumulated more data since then, and I now find that whether I prefer the company of EIEs or LSEs depends a great deal on whether our subtypes are compatible, and also my mood at the time.
    Quaero Veritas.

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