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Thread: How do INFps experience unvalued Ne and Fi

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    Default How do INFps experience unvalued Ne and Fi

    how do You experience NE and Fi..
    or what is your understanding/observation of how infps experience ne & fi...unvalued strong NeFi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali View Post
    how do You experience NE and Fi..
    or what is your understanding/observation of how infps experience ne & fi...unvalued strong NeFi
    The way I experience Ne is that although I appreciate lots of options and ideas, I immediately follow the ones I like the best through to their probable outcome (I do this internally, in my head) and then I spout out reasons why the idea wouldn't work. Which ends up making me look like a pessimist. But I'm just being realistic based on what I think will most likely happen. So I guess my Ni dampens my Ne (and totally trumps it, obviously).

    Fi....that's a bit tougher. This friend of mine recently cut off our friendship because his wife is jealous. We went all summer without seeing each other but when fall started back up again, we have been running into each other at church. He's been friendly on occasion but at other times he ignores me. Now I don't really CARE what the official status of our "relationship" is. I mean, I care but it's all bogus anyway. But what does really bother me is that he's not consistent with the emotional atmosphere between us. This, for me, is how my Fe trumps Fi. I would rather have him be friendly, heck, even in a fake way, and maintain a positive overall experience when we're together than ignore me due to some confusion over the "we're not friends" pronunciation. I also try to create a positive atmosphere with his wife (tho I'm not trying anymore) by approaching her to say hello, etc. even though I know she doesn't like me. That sort of thing really doesn't work well with Fi types tho. So although I feel like I understand who likes who and why, I still feel like Fe is more important and can and should be used to smooth things over and be civil and get along and stop judging or jumping to conclusions!!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    another example of Fe and Fi, as illustrated by myself and my mother ( who is delta NF) is this: when we were on vacation, we sat down at this table with some other friends and family who were with us. Someone my mother didn't know sat down at our same (large) table and my mom got this look of shock on her face. She immediately looked at me and my aunt and was like "do you know this person???" as if to say how dare they sit with us if they don't have an established relationship with us. My dad (SEI) and I were like hey, how are you, join us, etc. (we were at this resort where we go every year and we know a lot, although not all, of the people who attend so it's right and good to be friendly to everyone. not like there are serial killers there or anything). Anyway, I was annoyed with my mother for that. Why can't she just be welcoming and nice to everyone?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I don't know your mother's type, but I'd guess EII by this description.

    Anyway I just wanted to say that is not Fi making her react like that. One of the things that is typical for IEEs is that we can talk with anyone immediately. I would never react like your mother. If anything, I'd probably have the rest of my family angry with me for spending all dinner talking with the other person (I'm curious...)
    yeah, she's EII, most likely. But I had been toying around with the idea of IEE. Prolly not tho.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I don't know your mother's type, but I'd guess EII by this description.

    Anyway I just wanted to say that is not Fi making her react like that. One of the things that is typical for IEEs is that we can talk with anyone immediately. I would never react like your mother. If anything, I'd probably have the rest of my family angry with me for spending all dinner talking with the other person (I'm curious...)
    well I wonder what it is then? Just general shyness or something? I mean, I'm shy too and my dad (SEI) is even quieter than she is but we're way more open to new people and don't need that established relationship thing before we can be really friendly and joking around and stuff.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    well I wonder what it is then? Just general shyness or something? I mean, I'm shy too and my dad (SEI) is even quieter than she is but we're way more open to new people and don't need that established relationship thing before we can be really friendly and joking around and stuff.
    plus I know another EII who's the same way. Very reticent around people she doesn't know. I mean, I'm not going to talk someone's ear off, I'm an introvert also but at least I don't give them the skeptical look and write them off if I don't like what they're wearing (that's NOT FAIR to all EIIs but it's totally true of these two).
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    She could be EII or IEE. Anyway I don't think her behavior had ANYTHING to do with Fi. Unless she hated the person coming. If it was a stranger, a Fi person would feel obliged to try and make a connection, and thus use Fi to ask questions and get to know the person.

    We Fi-people might not be so good at saying all those initial greeting things Fe-people are so great at, but we would probably go deeper and try to really KNOW the person. More so than a Fe-ego person, i suspect.

    However, I love both Fe and Fi, and use them both a lot. They are both warm and welcoming, but on different levels.
    Oh sure, once she knew the person was "okay", she'd ask them questions and get to know them, definitely. But there has to be something she can trust there first I think. Some way (even if it's just someone else she trusts knowing them) for her to feel safe. So it's not Fi. Whatever it is then. But the other EII is the same way. Very skeptical until she feels safe. And if there's anything they deem questionable about the person, they're both stand-offish.

    I'll stop now. Clearly I have issues with these particular EIIs.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I don't know any EIIs, but I think they are supposed to be extremely warm and welcoming. There is a reason they are called "empaths".
    They're extremely warm and welcoming when they feel SAFE and when they know the people. I think there are some pretty severe insecurities with the ones I know. So they're not a good example I suppose.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    We Fi-people might not be so good at saying all those initial greeting things Fe-people are so great at, but we would probably go deeper and try to really KNOW the person. More so than a Fe-ego person, i suspect.
    I just wanted to...i dunno, try to clarify something about Fe creative at least, not sure about Fe base.

    IxFp also try to get to know...or rather..'understand' the person, only they don't do it via the question/answer route like an ExFp would, but by watching the person, seeing how the person responds to stimuli from the environment, etc. In this way, they too, get to know the individual. ...or rather understand them.

    I don't think it's really fair to say that Fi type would go deeper than an Fe type would. I can actually see how Fe types might think that our question/answer method is superficial. And that their way is actually deeper, since it takes in the dynamics of the person in the situation, etc. While Fi's would be more...staticy, heh.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I see, but then you don't get the connection? It's more one-way....?


    I don't think it's possible to use Fi alone or Fe alone. I use both. I guess Fe-types use both as well.

    But I get what you mean. I was just being defensive, I guess.
    maybe it depends. with my SEI friend (who is also Fe creative), we got to know each other pretty well from only talking about superficial things. But there was definitely a connection. But it was weird--the unspoken stuff is almost louder than the spoken stuff. Hard to explain. So for us it was completely mutual. But if you were doing that with another type, it wouldn't feel the same I'm sure.

    I do know an EII guy I like very much. He's very healthy and confident and I even like his LSE wife.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    and I like you guys too! Still having a hard time nailing down Fi. Maybe I'll start a thread about the differences between Fi base and Fi creative. Which I'm sure has been done before...
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I see, but then you don't get the connection? It's more one-way....?
    i think they already feel connected in a way, well the INFps I've talked with do. Maybe something to do with the Ni? not sure. But I think that when they observe the other person, they are perhaps also empathizing or sympathizing with the person's responses to whatever stimuli is happening.

    In a way, both the Fi method and the Fe method allow us to be able to predict fairly well the person's behaviors elsetime. Kinda like taking two different roads to reach a similar (or mirrored) destination.

    As for one way vs two way connection, if you (general you) think about it, we don't feel the other person's connection to us, we only feel our own connection to them, whether its done via Fi+Ne or Fe+Ni. Both feel/notice the other person's responses to us, which helps us perceive a connection (or lack of) on the other person's side as well as what we perceive on our own side.


    I don't think it's possible to use Fi alone or Fe alone. I use both. I guess Fe-types use both as well.

    But I get what you mean. I was just being defensive, I guess.
    heh, sokay, I totally understand.
    Because of the number of infp I talk with regularly, I often feel a need to help clear up some misunderstandings regarding Fe...even if I, personally, have nontype related issues with Fe.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I don't think ethicals, Fi or Fe types, are really that different. We take in information both through Fi and Fe all the time. I find it hard to separate.

    The only thing I notice is that I don't like big warm welcomes, and I guess Fe types do. Could be personal though (I don't like that much attention)

    And yes, health level and self irony helps with any type.
    interesting! I think when I was younger, I felt more uncomfortable with big warm welcomes but now I like them! I do still feel uncomfortable with social kisses (on the cheek) with people I don't know well.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I like social kisses... but I'm European...

    It's the "HOW AAAAARE YOU!!!" I struggle with. If I feel good, it's OK to answer, but if you feel crap, then what do I do? Moral dilemma. Should I tell the truth and cause her to feel uncomfortable? Or should I lie and make myself feel uncomfortable?
    LOL I like to tell the truth, even if it makes the other person uncomfortable. I'm amused by that. Which is sort of mean but I think other people should be honest more often.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I'm starting to think I'm IEI, cause everything you tell resonates with what I do/feel... (but I try to tell the truth as friendly as possible, lol)
    yes, of course! me too! well, usually. hehe
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    IxFp also try to get to know...or rather..'understand' the person, only they don't do it via the question/answer route like an ExFp would, but by watching the person, seeing how the person responds to stimuli from the environment, etc. In this way, they too, get to know the individual. ...or rather understand them.
    This is quite an interesting elucidation of creative .
    Hmm... will have to mull this...

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I don't think it's really fair to say that Fi type would go deeper than an Fe type would. I can actually see how Fe types might think that our question/answer method is superficial. And that their way is actually deeper, since it takes in the dynamics of the person in the situation, etc. While Fi's would be more...staticy, heh.
    I find with my friend the IEE, he truly *thinks* he knows me based on the Q/A, but really his questions haven't lead to him having a full picture of my motivations and personality. I don't feel he knows me holistically, even though he knows a bunch of details. It's also as though he's made some incomplete judgements about who I am based on those Q/A sessions; like he's got some pieces, but doesn't yet perceive there's an entire picture.

    On the other hand, I've been observing him pretty thoroughly for over a year in a concerted effort to get to know him well. All sorts of situations, analyzing what he's told me, connecting all the threads: subtleties, words, actions, reactions. But I don't know that I ever really understand completely. I know there's a picture, but there's still so many pieces missing that are needed to fill in the details.

    And I always want more pieces...:wink:
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    This is quite an interesting elucidation of creative .
    Hmm... will have to mull this...


    I find with my friend the IEE, he truly *thinks* he knows me based on the Q/A, but really his questions haven't lead to him having a full picture of my motivations and personality. I don't feel he knows me holistically, even though he knows a bunch of details. It's also as though he's made some incomplete judgements about who I am based on those Q/A sessions; like he's got some pieces, but doesn't yet perceive there's an entire picture.

    On the other hand, I've been observing him pretty thoroughly for over a year in a concerted effort to get to know him well. All sorts of situations, analyzing what he's told me, connecting all the threads: subtleties, words, actions, reactions. But I don't know that I ever really understand completely. I know there's a picture, but there's still so many pieces missing that are needed to fill in the details.

    And I always want more pieces...:wink:
    Yup. Hidden agenda: "to understand", right? I did the same (bolded) with my SEI friend.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Again, I feel I have to explain Fi-people a little.

    Fi doesn't ask "a bunch of questions and gets details" to analyze the answers. That would be Ti, I think? Fi-people MIGHT ask questions, but I, for one, don't do it much. I'm really, really bad at asking questions, and I've written this in here before: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=21279
    (As you might see from that, I actually thought it was Fe asking questions... )

    It takes me a lot of courage to ask questions. But IF I ask questions, they will be personal and not superficial, and that means I really want to understand things.

    And when you answer my question, I will not really care about the words you say. I'll feel what you really mean, really feel. I might even see more than you know yourself. A lot of people have commented that I seem to be a psychic, and can tell what is really happening internally. I feel I have x-ray vision. And that's why I feel uncomfortable asking questions. I will know immediately, even without the person answering, how he or she REALLY feels about the question at hand. You see? We IEEs don't analyze the words. We, like you, take in a whole lot of information. And also, I don't think we ask more questions than you (As I said I thought the opposite). But if we do ask, it's often personal, and the reason is exactly BECAUSE we want to provoke all those reactions and subtle movements of eyes, and general feel of the ambient. We use Fe with Fi, just like you do. We just value a little different. The end result is the same. I'm quite sure. I'm GOOOD at reading people. REALLY good. If that is Fe, I use it A LOT.


    It's exactly the way we do it. It's just that the most important for us is that there is a connection. We want to KNOW that you and I are connected. That we share something special.
    Well, We IEIs want this too! Doesn't sound like we're all that different.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    But what does really bother me is that he's not consistent with the emotional atmosphere between us. This, for me, is how my Fe trumps Fi.
    I strongly identify with that. And for me, it feels strenuous and almost betraying-my-values-for-theirs-kind-of-like when I do sometimes choose to accept NeFi over Nife.

    Just to be clear though, I do not view my IEE friend or my EII mother as pretentious or immoral. I just didn't think it would be appropriate for me to assert myself in this manner.
    Well put. Oh and would it be possible for you to list some of those activities ?

    IxFp also try to get to know...or rather..'understand' the person, only they don't do it via the question/answer route like an ExFp would, but by watching the person, seeing how the person responds to stimuli from the environment, etc. In this way, they too, get to know the individual. ...or rather understand them.
    After Kioshi, and as a non-Infp, I really like your descriptions of Infps. Oh and you have a very pretty lyrical tone to your writing.

    I can actually see how Fe types might think that our question/answer method is superficial. And that their way is actually deeper, since it takes in the dynamics of the person in the situation, etc. While Fi's would be more...staticy, heh.
    I would prefer..rigid, to superfcial maybe. And encompassing, to deeper..

    But I think that when they observe the other person, they are perhaps also empathizing or sympathizing with the person's responses to whatever stimuli is happening.
    Precisely. Kioshi describes it well .. but it's something a lot of people do not perceive of Infps.



    I find with my friend the IEE, he truly *thinks* he knows me based on the Q/A, but really his questions haven't lead to him having a full picture of my motivations and personality. I don't feel he knows me holistically, even though he knows a bunch of details. It's also as though he's made some incomplete judgements about who I am based on those Q/A sessions; like he's got some pieces, but doesn't yet perceive there's an entire picture.

    On the other hand, I've been observing him pretty thoroughly for over a year in a concerted effort to get to know him well. All sorts of situations, analyzing what he's told me, connecting all the threads: subtleties, words, actions, reactions. But I don't know that I ever really understand completely. I know there's a picture, but there's still so many pieces missing that are needed to fill in the details.
    I completely agree about this phenomena here. I find the IEE i know to be seemingly making a Nefi understanding of myself, and I can so clearly see when she misses out on that holistic-al understanding of me. And vice versa. And that sometimes does lead to confusion but we're heading out of the-thread territory here.

    On the other hand, I haven't consciously noticed using Ne and Fi to support Ni and Fe.

    hmm.

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    ok, here is how it might work. Ne and Fi work to establish boundaries to Ni and Fe. So for example while Ni is subjectively feeling impact, the Ne will (or won't) be the what puts a mix of judgment (or anti-judgment?) to this, as to set the..depth..of Ne's experience. Likewise, Fi is used to add limits to the Fe-interpretation and how decide much of the Fe is (non)acceptable. Any opinions ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali View Post
    After Kioshi, and as a non-Infp, I really like your descriptions of Infps. Oh and you have a very pretty lyrical tone to your writing.

    I would prefer..rigid, to superfcial maybe. And encompassing, to deeper..
    Thank you
    I've been working hard at trying to grasp NiFe. Thankfully I've got a few inlife and online NiFe friends who are willing to talk with me and help clarify some thoughts/observations of them.

    As for the superficial, deeper, rigid, encompassing thing....
    Here's a fairly unfinished thought...
    NeFi is said to be a static type. When in the process of getting to know someone, the NeFi is looking at/for the enduring aspects of the person. The interests and behaviors and potentials that are more long term, or encompassing the whole of the person kind of thing. We do recognize that people's interests and responses and ideals change. But even then we seem to look for the changes that endure or have the potential to endure. Not so much things like hobby jumping. If a person is a hobby jumper, we look for what similarities those hobbies have to each other to get a sense of the kinds of hobbies endure over the person's life and changes. Like, are the hobbies and interests mostly physically active? outdoorsey? competitive? quiet/calm? working with hands? working with mind? types of logic puzzles? etc etc. But it's not just hobbies that we're looking at. It's other things. And I think, that mostly, what we look at, at least me and about 3 other NeFi that I know, seem to pay attention to the attitude or mental/emotional approach the person has when faced or pursuing a situation/experience. When we know about those aspects of a person, then we feel as if we know them. And if we have a similar approach, then we feel connected to them, and quite likely, them feeling connected to us (a human thing).

    Whereas it seems that NiFe focus more on the transient aspects of the person. The aspects that are in constant motion, change, cycling, etc. I can't really describe it because it's not something I really pay attention to. But it still has to do with with signals and environmental stimuli, etc.

    And these differences, NeFi focusing on intransient aspects and NiFe focusing on transient aspects, may be why they each feel as if the other type is missing out on something. NiFe might see that the NeFi is missing the understanding of aspects that change or respond to environment, etc, and thus can't really know/understand the person. NeFi might see that the NiFe is missing the more enduring aspects of the person, etc, and thus can't really know/understand the person.

    Is either more encompassing or deeper than the other? No, not in my opinion. Different yes.


    Now, what would be really scary is if someone focused fully on both aspects of a person. *shivers*
    I doubt I'd ever want anyone to know me that deeply, nor I them.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    I like this Kioshi, but may need concrete situational examples...
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

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    yeah I was gonna say....looks interesting but I don't understand it!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    A couple of examples, a little more englishified...

    NF:
    We can't know everything. We can't know all the circumstances surrounding an event. We don't even necessarily know what the event actually IS.
    So much is hidden or unknown. And it’s the hidden & unknown that interests us.

    Delta NF:
    Regardless of the event, it's the circumstances that affect us. We CAN influence those circumstances as much as those circumstances influence us.
    Ie "Yeah, I was affected by the actions you took, but I feel better now knowing that you didn't intend to hurt me."

    Beta NF:
    Regardless of the circumstances, it's the events that affect us. We CAN influence events as much as events influence us.
    Ie "I was affected by the actions, regardless of the reason or intent, it hurts."
    Last edited by anndelise; 09-26-2008 at 04:51 PM. Reason: altered some wordings
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Beta NF:
    Regardless of the circumstances, it's the events that affect us. We CAN influence events as much as events influence us.
    Ie "I was affected by the actions you took, regardless of your reason or intent, I was hurt."
    Sounds valid IME.

    I might add that when I don't know the actual circumstances, the events make no sense to me. I need the circumstances to give a context to the event. Together, I can modify my reactions/conclusions and feel reasonably sure I'm grasping the situation accurately.

    Otherwise, the ambiguity drives me nuts. People have suggested I just "make up" a story just to get past analyzing the situation, but I really can't do that. I seek as much to feel competent in my handling.
    socio: INFp - IEI
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    So beta NFs focus more on the hurt they're experiencing while delta NFs focus more on the intent of the person and why they did the action that caused the hurt?

    hmph. maybe. makes us sound selfish like we can't look beyond our own hurt to get at the larger context. I think I can look beyond myself.
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    the wordings of the examples have been changed a bit:

    delta: Ie "Yeah, I was affected by the actions you took, but I feel better now knowing that you didn't intend to hurt me."

    beta: Ie "I was affected by the actions, regardless of the reason or intent, it hurts."
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    the wordings of the examples have been changed a bit:

    delta: Ie "Yeah, I was affected by the actions you took, but I feel better now knowing that you didn't intend to hurt me."

    beta: Ie "I was affected by the actions, regardless of the reason or intent, it hurts."
    yeah okay. I guess that's true. Even months later when I forgave the person, I sometimes still think about that one thing and it still hurts. In spite of the fact that I know he didn't intend to hurt me....not that I'm holding a grudge. no, I really have forgiven. But the intention of the person doesn't change the hurt. I wonder why not! That's odd. It actually makes more logical sense to not feel as hurt once you figure out that the person wasn't trying to hurt you.
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    aka_kitsune and redbaron....

    for starters, hurt was just an example, you can insert any emotion there.
    if an event took place, and the beta nf feels good about it, their feel good emotion wouldn't change as much as a delta nfs upon finding out that the event was an accident...

    the ironic thing, though, is that it seems that the betans actually focus more on intent...but they feel more involved in the events, than some mitigating circumstance...

    while the delta nf feels more involved in the circumstances than the actual event.

    part of it comes down to
    beta feels less influenced by the circumstances than by the event
    delta feels more influenced by the circumstances than by the event
    (note, these two last points can be reworded in a few different ways so if need be i can try again)
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    yeah okay. I guess that's true. Even months later when I forgave the person, I sometimes still think about that one thing and it still hurts. In spite of the fact that I know he didn't intend to hurt me....not that I'm holding a grudge. no, I really have forgiven. But the intention of the person doesn't change the hurt. I wonder why not! That's odd. It actually makes more logical sense to not feel as hurt once you figure out that the person wasn't trying to hurt you.
    a delta nf would be closer to beating themselves up for still feeling hurt even after finding out that it was unintentional
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Sounds valid IME.

    I might add that when I don't know the actual circumstances, the events make no sense to me. I need the circumstances to give a context to the event. Together, I can modify my reactions/conclusions and feel reasonably sure I'm grasping the situation accurately.

    Otherwise, the ambiguity drives me nuts. People have suggested I just "make up" a story just to get past analyzing the situation, but I really can't do that. I seek as much to feel competent in my handling.
    I think part of this may actually include the NiFe's Ti HA

    (haven't gotten that far though)
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    a delta nf would be closer to beating themselves up for still feeling hurt even after finding out that it was unintentional
    lol I don't beat myself up about it. I tell myself that it's okay to feel hurt because that's just who I am or whatever.
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    a little more to help out (hopefully)
    (still needs major refinement...)

    Both of them (every type, actually) include circumstances (Xi) and events (Xe).
    NFs focus on the implicit aspects of the circumstances, and the implicit aspects of the events.
    In the case of beta NFs, they feel more involved in the implicit aspects of the events. Perhaps wondering what they did that helped bring about the event, etc.
    ENFj is more likely to take direct action to influence the next or future events.
    INFp may respond directly or may withdraw to avoid a future event.

    In the case of delta NFs, they feel more involved in the implicit aspect of the circumstances. Such as, if I change the way I view this event, then I'll feel less/more affected by the event. (ie, if I change my pov, my emotions will change)
    ENFp is likely to take action quickly, similar to ENFj, but less purposeful action than ENFj. As the ENFp's perception of the circumstances change…so will their impulsive actions.
    INFj is less likely to take action, and are slower in adjusting their perceptions of the circumstances involved.
    Last edited by anndelise; 09-26-2008 at 05:47 PM. Reason: deleted two sentences
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    Well see I wouldn't even try to take a walk through the forest in the first place because I'd be too worried about that happening. So I might stay safe, albeit overprotected.

    You ever hear of Barkley (sp?) on Star Trek? Having a rich imagination and fantasy world kinda goes hand in hand of being overly afraid of stuff. Sucks, but you play the cards you've been dealt I suppose.

    Or worse, I'd stay sheltered for too long then I'd stupidly join a gang or something to shock my body up.

    My brain is of an innocent virgin, and everybody else thinks they can penetrate it. However, I only let the right ones in. Everybody wants me to join this group this cause and I'm like maaan. Come on. It's hard enough to just do the basics. I'm proud of myself for even getting out of bed this morning. Calm down.

    'Reasonable assertive risk assement' (for gayness) seems to be the right way to go. But it sounds all too rational. Bah. Part of me, call it my Fe, always needs that romantic charm. I don't care if it's not good for me. I like a little sugar on my toast. *wink*

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    The way I experience Ne is that although I appreciate lots of options and ideas, I immediately follow the ones I like the best through to their probable outcome (I do this internally, in my head) and then I spout out reasons why the idea wouldn't work. Which ends up making me look like a pessimist. But I'm just being realistic based on what I think will most likely happen. So I guess my Ni dampens my Ne (and totally trumps it, obviously).
    I do the EXACT SAME THING. But you have to remember, if the Ne-valuer likes you for whatever reason then sometimes it can be beneficial to listen to them.

    That is, use your Fe to sense if this person can be trustworthy or not, and then listen to their advice depending on that and your Ni. Sometimes a variety of situations will help us more than our own Ni, but we can't help but going with our much stronger Ni, it's just more powerful for us.

    Well sometimes we'll know what works for us and what not, and sometimes they need to 'block out' their Ne and see this, and to stop giving us ideas. So even if they may be giving you lots of options, your Ni will urge them to use their Se to help you make up your mind and to pick a direction already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    IxFp also try to get to know...or rather..'understand' the person, only they don't do it via the question/answer route like an ExFp would, but by watching the person, seeing how the person responds to stimuli from the environment, etc. In this way, they too, get to know the individual. ...or rather understand them.

    I don't think it's really fair to say that Fi type would go deeper than an Fe type would. I can actually see how Fe types might think that our question/answer method is superficial. And that their way is actually deeper, since it takes in the dynamics of the person in the situation, etc. While Fi's would be more...staticy, heh.
    This is interesting... if we're talking about Fi and Fe as in "understanding" the person... then the Fe approach would go something like this:

    Well online, I would ask questions and try to psychoanalyze them, because there's no other information available. That's neither really Fi nor Fe, but more Ti I guess.

    In real life, I wouldn't really ask a lot of questions, unless I really wanted to or had to, but I'd just observe them, and I'd observe their reactions to things. So say if they're eating something... and if they like a certain food, then I'll make a note of that, not really consciously but just casually and think "Ok, so this person likes this food". And if they don't like something and feel disgusted/repulsed, then I'll also make a note of that too and think "Ok, so this person doesn't like this food X". If they're interacting with people, then again I'll make similar observations, like if the person feels comfortable and feels at ease with someone then I'll think, "Ok, so this person gets along with this person" or if they're feeling uneasy, then I'll think, "Ok, so this person doesn't feel comfortable with this person". And on and on... I'll make similar observations based on their reactions, like like/dislike, comfort/discomfort, attraction/repulsion etc.
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    One cannot look at Ne and Fi in isolation because input and output interact to give very different characteristics as with INFj versus ENFp. INFps are more likely to have better communication and some common goals with ENFps. Both types are in the bottom half as far as potential for forming a strong relationship with an INFp; however, I've observed all three types on friendly terms with one another but none seem to socialize outside of a work environment.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    They are things that I understand well and come easy to me, but not my default and not things I focus on.

    For instance, when I'm hanging out with groups of people I tend to disregard Fi related things in favor of the overall emotional atmosphere of what's going on (like making silly light hearted jokes or baiting people into acting or feeling a certain way, etc). I also find it hard to hold on to personal vendettas for prolonged periods of time, etc. My personal grievances and conflicts, though powerful and turbulent in the moment, are often short lived once I get those emotions out of my system. I'd rather hold on to those memories of emotions more so as lessons to abide by for future interactions than let them completely engulf my personal values.

    Ne is a little harder for me to separate, I guess. I'm a daydreamer who's constantly in my head, and ruminating on my thoughts. I like to connect the dots of information, and things and events that have happened, and this is more my "default mode", if anything. I suppose I naturally focus on those little details and dot connections more in my mind than the overall bigger picture? My focus of thought is always more inward and I guess "deeper", rather than on outward things. This is a bit difficult for me to explain. I can quite easily generate new ideas, and envision different possibilities but I'm more "default mode" focused on connecting dots from past events to envision underlying meanings and potential outcomes (you know, just casual everyday stuff like pondering the meaning of the universe, etc. lol).
    Last edited by fox; 03-05-2017 at 07:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I just wanted to...i dunno, try to clarify something about Fe creative at least, not sure about Fe base.

    IxFp also try to get to know...or rather..'understand' the person, only they don't do it via the question/answer route like an ExFp would, but by watching the person, seeing how the person responds to stimuli from the environment, etc. In this way, they too, get to know the individual. ...or rather understand them.
    .
    This describes me very well.

    In the past I thought this was Fi...
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