IEEs and the problem with other people

[consentingadult]

Today's thought:

The problem with other people is that they, out of their self-interest, do not want us to change.

[Simon Ssmall]

I did not understand your problem fully... Do you say you want to change but people do not since they liked you more before? Or the issue is that people do not want to initiate change in you as they like you as you are? In the latter case I reject any requests for change and do the opposite.

[consentingadult]

I did not understand your problem fully... Do you say you want to change but people do not since they liked you more before? Or the issue is that people do not want to initiate change in you as they like you as you are? In the latter case I reject any requests for change and do the opposite.

Neither, what I mean is that IEEs are, more than other people, likely to change the course of their lives, be it small changes or large ones. Some people are, in various ways, dependent on other people (e.g. emotionally or financially), and will do everything in their power to prevent the people they are dependent on to change (or even let them be themselves).

Now this is not unique to IEEs, of course.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Neither, what I mean is that IEEs are, more than other people, likely to change the course of their lives, be it small changes or large ones. Some people are, in various ways, dependent on other people (e.g. emotionally or financially), and will do everything in their power to prevent the people they are dependent on to change (or even let them be themselves).

Ugh..sounds almost parasitic. Better off if person cares about other then will encourage and try support that growth, imo (but what do you mean by change, I take it you mean change their lifestyle-job career or whatever, or change to reach a place where perhaps they feel psychologically better? Not that two can't go always go hand in hand) If so some sort of human protozoan, hmm.. probably not the best, I'd imagine

So difficult to say without knowing full info though CA

[Nexus]

Today's thought:

The problem with other people is that they, out of their self-interest, do not want us to change.

Yes, IEEs definitely have a problem, and it has to do with being shallow, fickle, and impulsive.

...j/k...not

[Topaz]

Yes, IEEs definitely have a problem, and it has to do with being shallow, fickle, and impulsive.

...j/k...not

I think it has more to do with people like you. I'll bet there are more LSI in prison than IEEs. I infact know of at three ex-cons that are LSI. They're scary.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

The healthiest societies encourage interdependence, making real true friends that you'd want in your deepest of dreams but also ones that encourage others to make choices for themselves and themselves alone.

I've seen too many college kids rely on their parents. When my own parents spoil me it drives me crazy as they're just making it worse and harming my relationships.

You are much more likeable if you worry about mostly just yourself anyway, and also ironically more approachable and easier to talk to.

People that are obviously trying to people please turn me off the most. We all care about what other people think of us, but I mean 2 helper types in the enneagram wheel annoy me. People that have to always be in another person's business all the time need to get a life of their own.

[Nexus]

I think it has more to do with people like you. I'll bet there are more LSI in prison than IEEs. I infact know of at three ex-cons that are LSI. They're scary.

But I bet their crimes were premeditated, ambitious, and showed commitment.

[Nexus]

The healthiest societies encourage interdependence, making real true friends that you'd want in your deepest of dreams but also ones that encourage others to make choices for themselves and themselves alone.

I've seen too many college kids rely on their parents. When my own parents spoil me it drives me crazy as they're just making it worse and harming my relationships.

You are much more likeable if you worry about mostly just yourself anyway, and also ironically more approachable and easier to talk to.

People that are obviously trying to people please turn me off the most. We all care about what other people think of us, but I mean 2 helper types in the enneagram wheel annoy me. People that have to always be in another person's business all the time need to get a life of their own.

Are you a 9?

[consentingadult]

I've seen too many college kids rely on their parents.

what about those parents who rely on their children too much, as if their chikdren are their parents (psychologists call this phenomenon 'parentified children')

[consentingadult]

Ugh..sounds almost parasitic. Better off if person cares about other then will encourage and try support that growth, imo (but what do you mean by change, I take it you mean change their lifestyle-job career or whatever, or change to reach a place where perhaps they feel psychologically better? Not that two can't go always go hand in hand) If so some sort of human protozoan, hmm.. probably not the best, I'd imagine

So difficult to say without knowing full info though CA

It can be parasitic, but then we are talking serious cases. But it also happens in less severe circumstances. Like the 'parentified child' I was talking about in my previous reply: there are a lot of people who make thir children (whether still kids or adults) responsible for their own happiness, and typically they will use all kinds of means to accomplish that. E.g. my mother tried to play guilt tricks on me, my brothers, her siblings. To the extent that I simply had to remove her from my life, which was probably the hardest decision of my life, but gave me great gains in psychological health.

By change I indeed mean growth, in the existential sense. Not a simple job change (although IEEs can be good at that too, to the extent that it worries the people who are dependent on it), but to completely change their way of life, e.g. entering e Buddhist monastery

[consentingadult]

I think it has more to do with people like you. I'll bet there are more LSI in prison than IEEs. I infact know of at three ex-cons that are LSI. They're scary.

I agree: probably the only IEEs in prison are those who, out of procrastination, forgot to file their taxes for 6 years in a row and not complying with the rules of bankruptcy. Not that they intended to break the law, it just 'happened' to them

[Topaz]

But I bet their crimes were premeditated, ambitious, and showed commitment.

They were shortsided, unimaginative and ultimatley unfruitful. Hence the jail sentences. What were you in for? You say youve never been locked up? Its just a matter of time before they catch you, ya know.

[consentingadult]

The healthiest societies encourage interdependence, making real true friends that you'd want in your deepest of dreams but also ones that encourage others to make choices for themselves and themselves alone.

This is actualy a very interesting thought, can you give examples of such societies? I ask, because in Europe, I think most societies are either too much collectivist in this sense (Mediterranean), whereas north-west europeans (British, Dutch, Scandinavians) are probably way too individualistic and socially more remote. I myself do not know of societies that are overall balanced in this respect.

[Nexus]

They were shortsided, unimaginative and ultimatley unfruitful. Hence the jail sentences. What were you in for? You say youve never been locked up? Its just a matter of time before they catch you, ya know.

For what? I, S, T, or j?

[Topaz]

For what? I, S, T, or j?

You name it. The feds are probably on their way now. You can explain it to the judge. I suggest dressing nice, smile, be polite, and repentant. You might get a lighter sentence. I'll send you some soap on a rope

[Nexus]

You name it. The feds are probably on their way now. You can explain it to the judge. I suggest dressing nice, smile, be polite, and repentant. You might get a lighter sentence. I'll send you some soap on a rope

Thanks; that way I can wash my back and not have to bend over if I drop it. And ISTjs always dress nice.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

It can be parasitic, but then we are talking serious cases. But it also happens in less severe circumstances. Like the 'parentified child' I was talking about in my previous reply: there are a lot of people who make thir children (whether still kids or adults) responsible for their own happiness, and typically they will use all kinds of means to accomplish that. E.g. my mother tried to play guilt tricks on me, my brothers, her siblings. To the extent that I simply had to remove her from my life, which was probably the hardest decision of my life, but gave me great gains in psychological health.

Well, in psychological perspective, sounds like perhaps symbiosis (psychological definition) when young, moving to symbiotic stage for you

By change I indeed mean growth, in the existential sense. Not a simple job change (although IEEs can be good at that too, to the extent that it worries the people who are dependent on it), but to completely change their way of life, e.g. entering e Buddhist monastery

It's said a change is as good as a rest, so could be fun for at least a while, but would that get tiresome also?

Could always try as well perhaps

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Today's thought:

The problem with other people is that they, out of their self-interest, do not want us to change.

It's not always out of their own interests that they may block others from changing. It depends on the situation. If you knew someone who was going to do something that might destroy their life, would you say something? There's a balance.

[unefille]

Neither, what I mean is that IEEs are, more than other people, likely to change the course of their lives, be it small changes or large ones. Some people are, in various ways, dependent on other people (e.g. emotionally or financially), and will do everything in their power to prevent the people they are dependent on to change (or even let them be themselves).

Now this is not unique to IEEs, of course.

That's one way of looking at it. The other way of course is 'other people and the problem with IEEs' (I'm only referring to IEEs because they're in the title of the thread).

If the people 'holding you back' are self-interested, the changing self is also self-interested; invested primarily in their own personal growth/mission/whatever, as opposed to their responsibilities (financial, emotional or otherwise) to the people around them.

The course of our lives is not lived on our own, but within a society of other people. Our each and every action affects those around us. And constant change, instability and maneuverability for the sake of 'being yourself' to the detriment of those that depend on you is selfish. It's not necessarily bad, but it is self-focused at the core.

[Simon Ssmall]

It's not always out of their own interests that they may block others from changing. It depends on the situation. If you knew someone who was going to do something that might destroy their life, would you say something? There's a balance.

Who is to judge what can destroy your life? I mean to someone going to a monastery may sound like "destroying your life" but to the person in question it can bring peace of mind and happyness. From my own experience even if some people might say "it's a mistake" Id rather find that out myself. Sometimes people are right, but more often - not.

Maybe there is some scenario where it would actually make sense but I can't think of one. Let people find their own way even if its not the straightest one, nobody is in a hurry here. That's my opinion at least.

[mikemex]

@Huitzilopochtli:

I'm amazed with your comments. Frankly, I would expect them from a person who doesn't know about Socionics... but from you?

I mean, it only shows that you've understood nothing. It is absurd to go around complaining why your conflictor isn't like yourself... or, being more specific, about IEEs being "uncommitted" or "unambitious".

Well, let me state it straight: as an LSI, you're "committed" because you're single minded. It's not a virtue, only a characteristic. You stick to whatever your goal is simply because you're unable to generate options for the most part.

The point is: the purpose of Socionics is to teach people that there are no "normal" ways of being; only a full spectrum of options that fulfill specific requirements. No way is universal.

So one must be grateful, not angry, that our conflictor exists.

[consentingadult]

Could always try as well perhaps

Actually, that is what my personal changes are about nd what some people would like to prevent

[consentingadult]

That's one way of looking at it. The other way of course is 'other people and the problem with IEEs' (I'm only referring to IEEs because they're in the title of the thread).

Quite true, of course...

[Nexus]

@Huitzilopochtli:

I'm amazed with your comments. Frankly, I would expect them from a person who doesn't know about Socionics... but from you?

I mean, it only shows that you've understood nothing. It is absurd to go around complaining why your conflictor isn't like yourself... or, being more specific, about IEEs being "uncommitted" or "unambitious".

Well, let me state it straight: as an LSI, you're "committed" because you're single minded. It's not a virtue, only a characteristic. You stick to whatever your goal is simply because you're unable to generate options for the most part.

The point is: the purpose of Socionics is to teach people that there are no "normal" ways of being; only a full spectrum of options that fulfill specific requirements. No way is universal.

So one must be grateful, not angry, that our conflictor exists.

I was only kidding and I said so at the beginning, you shouldn't get so mad.

I am very grateful for ENFps (if only b/c they make me look good ).

[Topaz]

I was only kidding and I said so at the beginning, you shouldn't get so mad.

I am very grateful for ENFps (if only b/c they make me look good ).

All in good fun Huitzilopochtl Youre cool. Dispite all their impressive gifts ENFps cant make you look good.... its virtually impossible

[kensi]

Today's thought:

The problem with other people is that they, out of their self-interest, do not want us to change.

huh

[anndelise]

I am very grateful for ENFps (if only b/c they make me look good ).

admit it, you admire enfps in a way.
in your type thread you talked about liking improvising with music.
and that's pretty much what enfps do with everything, not just music.
Life is just one big improvising fest.
and deep down inside you wish you could be like us

[Nexus]

admit it, you admire enfps in a way.
in your type thread you talked about liking improvising with music.
and that's pretty much what enfps do with everything, not just music.
Life is just one big improvising fest.
and deep down inside you wish you could be like us

You're right, but that is such a PoLR hit

[anndelise]

You're right, but that is such a PoLR hit

*puts away her gloves*

[thePirate]

I was only kidding and I said so at the beginning, you shouldn't get so mad.

I am very grateful for ENFps (if only b/c they make me look good ).

1. Your joke wasnt funny to begin with.
2. Go fuck yourself.

[Nexus]

1. Your joke wasnt funny to begin with.
2. Go fuck yourself.

ENFP is MBTI. This forum is for socionics.

[Topaz]

1. Your joke wasnt funny to begin with.
2. Go fuck yourself.

Hey, hey, go easy. Its not that serious.