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Thread: IEEs and the problem with other people

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    Default IEEs and the problem with other people

    Today's thought:

    The problem with other people is that they, out of their self-interest, do not want us to change.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    I did not understand your problem fully... Do you say you want to change but people do not since they liked you more before? Or the issue is that people do not want to initiate change in you as they like you as you are? In the latter case I reject any requests for change and do the opposite.
    Last edited by Simon Ssmall; 09-19-2008 at 10:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    I did not understand your problem fully... Do you say you want to change but people do not since they liked you more before? Or the issue is that people do not want to initiate change in you as they like you as you are? In the latter case I reject any requests for change and do the opposite.
    Neither, what I mean is that IEEs are, more than other people, likely to change the course of their lives, be it small changes or large ones. Some people are, in various ways, dependent on other people (e.g. emotionally or financially), and will do everything in their power to prevent the people they are dependent on to change (or even let them be themselves).

    Now this is not unique to IEEs, of course.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Neither, what I mean is that IEEs are, more than other people, likely to change the course of their lives, be it small changes or large ones. Some people are, in various ways, dependent on other people (e.g. emotionally or financially), and will do everything in their power to prevent the people they are dependent on to change (or even let them be themselves).
    Ugh..sounds almost parasitic. Better off if person cares about other then will encourage and try support that growth, imo (but what do you mean by change, I take it you mean change their lifestyle-job career or whatever, or change to reach a place where perhaps they feel psychologically better? Not that two can't go always go hand in hand) If so some sort of human protozoan, hmm.. probably not the best, I'd imagine

    So difficult to say without knowing full info though CA

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Today's thought:

    The problem with other people is that they, out of their self-interest, do not want us to change.
    Yes, IEEs definitely have a problem, and it has to do with being shallow, fickle, and impulsive.

    ...j/k...not
    Last edited by Nexus; 09-19-2008 at 07:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    Yes, IEEs definitely have a problem, and it has to do with being shallow, fickle, and impulsive.

    ...j/k...not
    I think it has more to do with people like you. I'll bet there are more LSI in prison than IEEs. I infact know of at three ex-cons that are LSI. They're scary.

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    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    The healthiest societies encourage interdependence, making real true friends that you'd want in your deepest of dreams but also ones that encourage others to make choices for themselves and themselves alone.

    I've seen too many college kids rely on their parents. When my own parents spoil me it drives me crazy as they're just making it worse and harming my relationships.

    You are much more likeable if you worry about mostly just yourself anyway, and also ironically more approachable and easier to talk to.

    People that are obviously trying to people please turn me off the most. We all care about what other people think of us, but I mean 2 helper types in the enneagram wheel annoy me. People that have to always be in another person's business all the time need to get a life of their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    I think it has more to do with people like you. I'll bet there are more LSI in prison than IEEs. I infact know of at three ex-cons that are LSI. They're scary.
    But I bet their crimes were premeditated, ambitious, and showed commitment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    The healthiest societies encourage interdependence, making real true friends that you'd want in your deepest of dreams but also ones that encourage others to make choices for themselves and themselves alone.

    I've seen too many college kids rely on their parents. When my own parents spoil me it drives me crazy as they're just making it worse and harming my relationships.

    You are much more likeable if you worry about mostly just yourself anyway, and also ironically more approachable and easier to talk to.

    People that are obviously trying to people please turn me off the most. We all care about what other people think of us, but I mean 2 helper types in the enneagram wheel annoy me. People that have to always be in another person's business all the time need to get a life of their own.
    Are you a 9?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I've seen too many college kids rely on their parents.
    what about those parents who rely on their children too much, as if their chikdren are their parents (psychologists call this phenomenon 'parentified children')
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Ugh..sounds almost parasitic. Better off if person cares about other then will encourage and try support that growth, imo (but what do you mean by change, I take it you mean change their lifestyle-job career or whatever, or change to reach a place where perhaps they feel psychologically better? Not that two can't go always go hand in hand) If so some sort of human protozoan, hmm.. probably not the best, I'd imagine

    So difficult to say without knowing full info though CA
    It can be parasitic, but then we are talking serious cases. But it also happens in less severe circumstances. Like the 'parentified child' I was talking about in my previous reply: there are a lot of people who make thir children (whether still kids or adults) responsible for their own happiness, and typically they will use all kinds of means to accomplish that. E.g. my mother tried to play guilt tricks on me, my brothers, her siblings. To the extent that I simply had to remove her from my life, which was probably the hardest decision of my life, but gave me great gains in psychological health.

    By change I indeed mean growth, in the existential sense. Not a simple job change (although IEEs can be good at that too, to the extent that it worries the people who are dependent on it), but to completely change their way of life, e.g. entering e Buddhist monastery
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    I think it has more to do with people like you. I'll bet there are more LSI in prison than IEEs. I infact know of at three ex-cons that are LSI. They're scary.
    I agree: probably the only IEEs in prison are those who, out of procrastination, forgot to file their taxes for 6 years in a row and not complying with the rules of bankruptcy. Not that they intended to break the law, it just 'happened' to them
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    But I bet their crimes were premeditated, ambitious, and showed commitment.
    They were shortsided, unimaginative and ultimatley unfruitful. Hence the jail sentences. What were you in for? You say youve never been locked up? Its just a matter of time before they catch you, ya know.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    The healthiest societies encourage interdependence, making real true friends that you'd want in your deepest of dreams but also ones that encourage others to make choices for themselves and themselves alone.
    This is actualy a very interesting thought, can you give examples of such societies? I ask, because in Europe, I think most societies are either too much collectivist in this sense (Mediterranean), whereas north-west europeans (British, Dutch, Scandinavians) are probably way too individualistic and socially more remote. I myself do not know of societies that are overall balanced in this respect.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    They were shortsided, unimaginative and ultimatley unfruitful. Hence the jail sentences. What were you in for? You say youve never been locked up? Its just a matter of time before they catch you, ya know.
    For what? I, S, T, or j?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    For what? I, S, T, or j?
    You name it. The feds are probably on their way now. You can explain it to the judge. I suggest dressing nice, smile, be polite, and repentant. You might get a lighter sentence. I'll send you some soap on a rope

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    You name it. The feds are probably on their way now. You can explain it to the judge. I suggest dressing nice, smile, be polite, and repentant. You might get a lighter sentence. I'll send you some soap on a rope


    Thanks; that way I can wash my back and not have to bend over if I drop it. And ISTjs always dress nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    It can be parasitic, but then we are talking serious cases. But it also happens in less severe circumstances. Like the 'parentified child' I was talking about in my previous reply: there are a lot of people who make thir children (whether still kids or adults) responsible for their own happiness, and typically they will use all kinds of means to accomplish that. E.g. my mother tried to play guilt tricks on me, my brothers, her siblings. To the extent that I simply had to remove her from my life, which was probably the hardest decision of my life, but gave me great gains in psychological health.
    Well, in psychological perspective, sounds like perhaps symbiosis (psychological definition) when young, moving to symbiotic stage for you
    By change I indeed mean growth, in the existential sense. Not a simple job change (although IEEs can be good at that too, to the extent that it worries the people who are dependent on it), but to completely change their way of life, e.g. entering e Buddhist monastery
    It's said a change is as good as a rest, so could be fun for at least a while, but would that get tiresome also?

    Could always try as well perhaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Today's thought:

    The problem with other people is that they, out of their self-interest, do not want us to change.
    It's not always out of their own interests that they may block others from changing. It depends on the situation. If you knew someone who was going to do something that might destroy their life, would you say something? There's a balance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Neither, what I mean is that IEEs are, more than other people, likely to change the course of their lives, be it small changes or large ones. Some people are, in various ways, dependent on other people (e.g. emotionally or financially), and will do everything in their power to prevent the people they are dependent on to change (or even let them be themselves).

    Now this is not unique to IEEs, of course.
    That's one way of looking at it. The other way of course is 'other people and the problem with IEEs' (I'm only referring to IEEs because they're in the title of the thread).

    If the people 'holding you back' are self-interested, the changing self is also self-interested; invested primarily in their own personal growth/mission/whatever, as opposed to their responsibilities (financial, emotional or otherwise) to the people around them.

    The course of our lives is not lived on our own, but within a society of other people. Our each and every action affects those around us. And constant change, instability and maneuverability for the sake of 'being yourself' to the detriment of those that depend on you is selfish. It's not necessarily bad, but it is self-focused at the core.
    Last edited by unefille; 09-19-2008 at 11:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    It's not always out of their own interests that they may block others from changing. It depends on the situation. If you knew someone who was going to do something that might destroy their life, would you say something? There's a balance.
    Who is to judge what can destroy your life? I mean to someone going to a monastery may sound like "destroying your life" but to the person in question it can bring peace of mind and happyness. From my own experience even if some people might say "it's a mistake" Id rather find that out myself. Sometimes people are right, but more often - not.

    Maybe there is some scenario where it would actually make sense but I can't think of one. Let people find their own way even if its not the straightest one, nobody is in a hurry here. That's my opinion at least.

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    @Huitzilopochtli:

    I'm amazed with your comments. Frankly, I would expect them from a person who doesn't know about Socionics... but from you?

    I mean, it only shows that you've understood nothing. It is absurd to go around complaining why your conflictor isn't like yourself... or, being more specific, about IEEs being "uncommitted" or "unambitious".

    Well, let me state it straight: as an LSI, you're "committed" because you're single minded. It's not a virtue, only a characteristic. You stick to whatever your goal is simply because you're unable to generate options for the most part.

    The point is: the purpose of Socionics is to teach people that there are no "normal" ways of being; only a full spectrum of options that fulfill specific requirements. No way is universal.

    So one must be grateful, not angry, that our conflictor exists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Could always try as well perhaps
    Actually, that is what my personal changes are about nd what some people would like to prevent
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    That's one way of looking at it. The other way of course is 'other people and the problem with IEEs' (I'm only referring to IEEs because they're in the title of the thread).
    Quite true, of course...
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    @Huitzilopochtli:

    I'm amazed with your comments. Frankly, I would expect them from a person who doesn't know about Socionics... but from you?

    I mean, it only shows that you've understood nothing. It is absurd to go around complaining why your conflictor isn't like yourself... or, being more specific, about IEEs being "uncommitted" or "unambitious".

    Well, let me state it straight: as an LSI, you're "committed" because you're single minded. It's not a virtue, only a characteristic. You stick to whatever your goal is simply because you're unable to generate options for the most part.

    The point is: the purpose of Socionics is to teach people that there are no "normal" ways of being; only a full spectrum of options that fulfill specific requirements. No way is universal.

    So one must be grateful, not angry, that our conflictor exists.
    I was only kidding and I said so at the beginning, you shouldn't get so mad.

    I am very grateful for ENFps (if only b/c they make me look good ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    I was only kidding and I said so at the beginning, you shouldn't get so mad.

    I am very grateful for ENFps (if only b/c they make me look good ).
    All in good fun Huitzilopochtl Youre cool. Dispite all their impressive gifts ENFps cant make you look good.... its virtually impossible

    Topaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Today's thought:

    The problem with other people is that they, out of their self-interest, do not want us to change.
    huh
    ENTP:wink:ALPHA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    I am very grateful for ENFps (if only b/c they make me look good ).
    admit it, you admire enfps in a way.
    in your type thread you talked about liking improvising with music.
    and that's pretty much what enfps do with everything, not just music.
    Life is just one big improvising fest.
    and deep down inside you wish you could be like us
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    admit it, you admire enfps in a way.
    in your type thread you talked about liking improvising with music.
    and that's pretty much what enfps do with everything, not just music.
    Life is just one big improvising fest.
    and deep down inside you wish you could be like us
    You're right, but that is such a PoLR hit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    You're right, but that is such a PoLR hit
    *puts away her gloves*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huitzilopochtli View Post
    I was only kidding and I said so at the beginning, you shouldn't get so mad.

    I am very grateful for ENFps (if only b/c they make me look good ).
    1. Your joke wasnt funny to begin with.
    2. Go fuck yourself.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    1. Your joke wasnt funny to begin with.
    2. Go fuck yourself.
    ENFP is MBTI. This forum is for socionics.
    Last edited by Nexus; 09-22-2008 at 01:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    1. Your joke wasnt funny to begin with.
    2. Go fuck yourself.
    Hey, hey, go easy. Its not that serious.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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