hitta's enneagram type - cp6w5 so/sp

[strrrng]

I think hitta sort of epitomizes the uncertainty and system-orientation of this type (due to being INTj), as well as the validation-seeking, which is enhanced by the so instinct. He seems to place great emphasis on finding that one answer, a system that will show him the light. Granted, all people are guilty of the silver bullet trap at one point or another; but all of his intellectual pursuits seem to revolve around it. Behind all of his philosophical meandering in stickam and dogmatic claims about particular ideological systems, lies, in my opinion, a strong search for security, some guidance to give him comfort and allay his fears. However, I believe he is more counter-phobic, which produces a "moving against" attitude, in regards to the aformentioned things. Not only is this blatantly evident in his superfluous self-expression regarding his opinions of the US government and any other institution (which, for the most part, are facile and ego-driven), but this also manifests in his general "independent thinker attitude. The counter-phobic 6 projects their fears outward behind a facade of independence and toughness; this gives others and themselves the illusion of not needing support, but in reality, they are direly seeking it. This is precisely what I see going on with hitta. I think compliant social style makes a helluvah lot more sense than withdrawn; just observe the way he interacts in stickam for 5 minutes and you will see what I am talking about. Also, the way compliant manifests in the 6 is a subtle feeling of superiority to others and an inclination to rely on supporters for social positioning. This has been evidenced in hitta's frequent tendency to say stuff like, "there are a lot of college professors who would disagree with you," or, "every enneagram author I've read would say you're wrong" in arguments, as if by allying himself with the experts he is solidifying his position on the issue. Reactive harmonic style is a fucking given IMO lol. Attachment object relations also seems clear. I have read his older posts (before he found gulenko) and they had a generally amiable and unassuming tone to them. Yet after he found his system to attach to, his posts took on a more confident, almost aggressive quality, which was completely unwarranted, but obviously derived from his newfound feeling of security.

As for instinct, I think so/sp works best. He doesn't seem to have the penchant for intensity in communication or experiences that sx primary or secondary people do. Statements like "I would never put myself in any kind of danger" not only reflect Se polr in a humorous way, but convey a complete risk-averse attitude. This is something that is highly uncommon in sx's, regardless of ego block functions. Additionally, he seems to care greatly about what others think of him. I remember one time when people linked a picture of some gaybeard guy and compared it to hitta; he basically spent 15 minutes defending himself against us and expended an inordinate amount of energy on something that was completely jocular and innocuous. This reflects the so 6 attitude imo: the need for external approval and validation (so) as a derivative of needing to feel secure with one's position in reality, minimizing threats, etc. (6).

That is why you're a cp6w5 so/sp, hitta. Don't bother trying to contradict it.

[Gilly]

eh, I still don't buy it.

[strrrng]

I don't give a fuck lol.

[Gilly]

Yeah you do

[strrrng]

The great gilligan never misses an opportunity that has even the most remote prospect of trivial emotional arguments (not saying I don't, either).

I provided a logically sound argument for his type, and I am extremely confident in it. The only opinions I care about are those that are as well thought-out as mine, which, at this point, there seem to be none of.

But keep pretending to be some master psycho-analyst lol.

[strrrng]

There is a very significant piece of evidence that I believe precludes 5 as an option for hitta: the fact that he (seems to) want to connect with people. 5's feel like they have been rejected, and for the most part, have come to terms with the fact that connecting with people is very unlikely. Hitta, however, seems like he actively seeks connections with others. I'm sure he would say otherwise, but his behavior in stickam is what gives me this impression. In a sense, it seems as though he is looking for acceptance, for someone who will listen to him and not abandon him, for whatever reason. This definitively points to reactive triad (which is governed by issues with trust and emotional abandonment), and since 8 is out of the question IMO, leaves 4 and 6. Why not 4? I don't see any of the internal self-idealizing to attract a rescuer going on with hitta. He does not seems fixated on identity issues, narcissistic wounding, if you will. There is no projection of any persona, and I really don't get the impression that the underlying feelings for him are shame and defectiveness. All of his actions in stickam point to a search for security - socially, intellectually and intrapersonally. I think frustration triad makes no sense; the only "ideal"-esque thing he has expressed is his feeling of being here to do something amazing, which points more towards 6 and the desire to fill some special role.

And I reiterate that withdrawn social styles makes no fucking sense. Beyond that, when was the last time you met an INTj 4 lol? Granted, I know some of you think hitta is an INFp, which could make the 4 typing seem likely, with all the platonic bullshit he spews about himself and his ideas ("I'm just ostracized for my creative genius!"), but I think that stuff is, for the most part, superficial.

So, at best, I am open to a case for some super so-focused 4 with little internal substance, lol. But 6 makes the most sense atm IMHFO.

[Expat]

And I reiterate that withdrawn social styles makes no fucking sense. Beyond that, when was the last time you met an INTj 4 lol? Granted, I know some of you think hitta is an INFp, which could make the 4 typing seem likely, with all the platonic bullshit he spews about himself and his ideas ("I'm just ostracized for my creative genius!"), but I think that stuff is, for the most part, superficial.

I think your analysis makes a lot of sense, also from an enneagram perspective, but less so from the socionics perspective.

Taking into account all that you have said, then ISFp is more likely than INTj or maybe even INFp. I agree with niffweed's arguments for INFp, but I don't think they are definitive. And ISFps are not necessarily all "sweet" or easy-going in a Bionicgoat way; it's not unusual for ISFps to just say whatever they're feeling like, or thinking, for the sake of expressing themselves according to their immediate needs (Fe+Si).

And wouldn't we all agree that ISFp makes the most obvious sense in VI?

[strrrng]

I think your analysis makes a lot of sense, also from an enneagram perspective, but less so from the socionics perspective.

Taking into account all that you have said, then ISFp is more likely than INTj or maybe even INFp. I agree with niffweed's arguments for INFp, but I don't think they are definitive. And ISFps are not necessarily all "sweet" or easy-going in a Bionicgoat way; it's not unusual for ISFps to just say whatever they're feeling like, or thinking, for the sake of expressing themselves according to their immediate needs (Fe+Si).

And wouldn't we all agree that ISFp makes the most obvious sense in VI?

I could see ISFp over INFp. A big problem I have with the INFp typing is Se-seeking (or valuing in general). Hitta seems paralyzed when Se is thrown at him. Many times in stickam, Ashton (regardless of EIE, SLE or w/e...has developed the Se to a decent degree IMO) would do just this, and hitta seemed dumbfounded, completely uncertain of how to respond to such pressure. Granted, no one likes to be picked on, and ashton could have just been being a caustic dick lol, but I still don't really see Se dual seeking with hitta. His Fe also does not seem strong; this is one of his most obvious behaviors. Regardless of so instinct or 6 approval, he very much likes an Fe atmosphere, but doesn't seem able to generate it himself. He feeds off of it when others create it, though.

[Expat]

His Fe also does not seem strong; this is one of his most obvious behaviors. Regardless of so instinct or 6 approval, he very much likes an Fe atmosphere, but doesn't seem able to generate it himself. He feeds off of it when others create it, though.

Some would say that this points to Fe just as dual-seeking, and obviously it may well be that. But I think it can be one manifestation of Fe creative blocked with Si.

In the final analysis, ISFps want to optimize their immediate sense of well being, and that is affected by whatever their Fe is catching - on an immediate, short-term and short-space level. Simplistically put, they want to feel good at all times.

If their Fe is picking stuff that makes them feel bad, they can react in many ways. They can just withdraw (which is what Bionicgoat often does, by his account). Or they can go into ESFj mode and try to change the Fe to one more to their liking - which is what cracka, and Bionicgoat as well to an extent, do.

Or they can just lash out angrily at whatever they see as the source of their bad Fe, attempting to make it go away or shut up, like when you try to wave away a fly whose buzz is driving you nuts.

I think hitta fits all of this.

[strrrng]

Some would say that this points to Fe just as dual-seeking, and obviously it may well be that. But I think it can be one manifestation of Fe creative blocked with Si.

In the final analysis, ISFps want to optimize their immediate sense of well being, and that is affected by whatever their Fe is catching - on an immediate, short-term and short-space level. Simplistically put, they want to feel good at all times.

If their Fe is picking stuff that makes them feel bad, they can react in many ways. They can just withdraw (which is what Bionicgoat often does, by his account). Or they can go into ESFj mode and try to change the Fe to one more to their liking - which is what cracka, and Bionicgoat as well to an extent, do.

Or they can just lash out angrily at whatever they see as the source of their bad Fe, attempting to make it go away or shut up, like when you try to wave away a fly whose buzz is driving you nuts.

I think hitta fits all of this.

Possibly, but I don't think all of that is exlusive to Fe ego. But I agree, his sense of "good Fe" is based around how it is occurring within the immediate Si context.

[Expat]

Possibly, but I don't think all of that is exlusive to Fe ego. But I agree, his sense of "good Fe" is based around how it is occurring within the immediate Si context.

Which, if that is a consistent, apparently "core" priority in him, is a strong indication of Alpha as his quadra. Fe blocked with Si.

Which brings us back to the INTj vs ISFp question. I have often said that in many cases - especially when typing online - it is difficult to differentiate between two extraverts (or between two introverts) of the same quadra. I would guess that, overall, ISFp makes more sense (and the often-repeated, and true, assessment that he doesn't look like an INTj at all is another indication).

[Gilly]

fwiw I agree with SEI>LII for hitta.

[Ezra]

Question for you, strrrng.

What is Phaedrus?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Some would say that this points to Fe just as dual-seeking, and obviously it may well be that. But I think it can be one manifestation of Fe creative blocked with Si.

In the final analysis, ISFps want to optimize their immediate sense of well being, and that is affected by whatever their Fe is catching - on an immediate, short-term and short-space level. Simplistically put, they want to feel good at all times.

If their Fe is picking stuff that makes them feel bad, they can react in many ways. They can just withdraw (which is what Bionicgoat often does, by his account). Or they can go into ESFj mode and try to change the Fe to one more to their liking - which is what cracka, and Bionicgoat as well to an extent, do.

Or they can just lash out angrily at whatever they see as the source of their bad Fe, attempting to make it go away or shut up, like when you try to wave away a fly whose buzz is driving you nuts.

I think hitta fits all of this.

It's also possible for an ISTp to lash out angrily in uncomfortable Fe settings, or to withdraw. He seems to find it uncomfortable, and at the same time have a poor ability to change it himself to that of his liking, also pointing to Fe as non-ego function.

[strrrng]

Question for you, strrrng.

What is Phaedrus?

The only plausible types I can come up with are LII, IEI and LSI. He's obviously Ti valuing, as all of his posts reek of an (overly) structuralist attitude and a superfluous confidence (or the appearance of such) in his own logic and ideas. I guess IEI is the most probable, as he seems to over-compensate with Ti and Se sometimes (the way he promotes ideas), with LSI as a fair second, for the same general reasons, except that he would actually have more skill in those areas. As for LII, well, it could just be another case of the deluded theoretician spewing TiNe crap out of his ass all day.

I am not certain, in case you couldn't tell.

[Ezra]

I meant Enneagram type. Sorry for not making it clear.

[strrrng]

I meant Enneagram type. Sorry for not making it clear.

5? Not really sure.

[strrrng]

Another little magical thing just popped into my head: hitta's stance on government. Not so much his ideological position, but rather, the emotion with which he conveys it. It is strikingly similar to the impressions I get from discojoe, albeit with less intensity, since dj has Se ego and sx. But the whole 'fuck the system, anti-authority' undertone is far too pronounced for it not to be related to anxieties and fears about trusting others and needing guidance, but going against such desires IMO.

[Ezra]

Can Phaedrus and hitta be the same type, Enneagram and socionics?

[Expat]

Can Phaedrus and hitta be the same type, Enneagram and socionics?

I think "overlapping" is more accurate than "same". But if you ask me what is the overlap, I don't know for sure.

I think cp6w5 makes sense for hitta, as does 5w6 for Phaedrus. So, as far as the enneagram is concerned, that's an overlap.

[strrrng]

Can Phaedrus and hitta be the same type, Enneagram and socionics?

I think they're both INTj, hitta being Ti sub and Phaedrus Ne. Phaedrus is simply not in my quadra (and this isn't petty feelings). I don't think he has any real Se/Ni awareness. Him promoting his ideas with absolute certainty, the "compensatory" Ti, etc. don't seem related to Se valuing or being INFp. As far as I'm concerned, he uses Ne to make these isomorphic correlations between things and then feeds it to his Ti, which is incredibly rigid, due to his autism. But whatever.

[Gilly]

I think they're both INTj, hitta being Ti sub and Phaedrus Ne. Phaedrus is simply not in my quadra (and this isn't petty feelings). I don't think he has any real Se/Ni awareness. Him promoting his ideas with absolute certainty, the "compensatory" Ti, etc. don't seem related to Se valuing or being INFp. As far as I'm concerned, he uses Ne to make these isomorphic correlations between things and then feeds it to his Ti, which is incredibly rigid, due to his autism. But whatever.

I'm sorry but this is not what I would call a good functional analysis. Isomorphic correlations = Ne? Incredible rigidity = Ti when blocked with Ne?

[strrrng]

I'm sorry but this is not what I would call a good functional analysis. Isomorphic correlations = Ne? Incredible rigidity = Ti when blocked with Ne?

Are you aware of what the word isomorphic means? Ne looks at inherent properties of objects and makes correlations with other objects based on similar properties. The word isomorphic is a good representation of this process.

And did I say that Ti = incredible rigidity? Reread my post. I was merely highlighting how the structural outlook of Ti is only enhanced in Phaedrus by his autism.

[Gilly]

I know what isomorphic means, but I don't think Ne can make these correlations without Ti or Fi.

I don't think that Ti is conducive to "structural rigidity" when blocked with Ne.

[strrrng]

I know what isomorphic means, but I don't think Ne can make these correlations without Ti or Fi.

Why not? Ne is a content function, like Se. It determines what 'is' in the objective world. Ne makes these correlations, and then feeds the information to either Ti or Fi, whereupon some sort of coherence is derived.

I don't think that Ti is conducive to "structural rigidity" when blocked with Ne.

Ti can be conducive to structural rigidity regardless, but I suppose one could say it is more absolute when blocked with Se. Whatever.

[Gilly]

*sigh* Go back to the information element definitions if you don't know why Ne is incapable of making these "connections" on its own.

[strrrng]

*sigh* Go back to the information element definitions if you don't know why Ne is incapable of making these "connections" on its own.

Can't provide an explanation of your own so you resort to referencing sources?

Go back to being a 6 if you can't suppress your natural tendencies.

[Gilly]

*sigh*

Sorry, I just don't feel like putting energy into an explanation that I know you will ignore because of the implication that your understanding is insufficient for a proper analysis of the situation.

[strrrng]

*sigh*

Sorry, I just don't feel like putting energy into an explanation that know you will ignore because of the implication that your understanding is insufficient for a proper analysis of the situation.

lol @ you feigning indifference to appear like you know what you're talking about.

[Gilly]

Think what you will.

[discojoe]

I don't think he's feigning indifference. I think he's demonstrating exhaustion.

[strrrng]

I don't think he's feigning indifference. I think he's demonstrating exhaustion.

Demonstrating exhaustion? He didn't even bother to explain his position, instead referencing me to official sources with an air of superiority. One isn't entitled to be exhausted if they don't even put effort into communication.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

Exactly. Ti or Fi provides the connecting structure for Ne. Ne isn't about "making connections or correlations" it's dividing, splitting, going multiple directions from a point, and Ti or Fi organizes it and draws in the connections.

Right. Extroverted functions reference discrete entities; introverted functions provide the context, bringing other things into the picture and seeing how they connect. This is the essence of "fields": isolating the relationship or connection between two (or more) objects.

[Gilly]

I think one day you will get tired of being you.

That was the wrong thing to say to a 4.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Demonstrating exhaustion? He didn't even bother to explain his position, instead referencing me to official sources with an air of superiority. One isn't entitled to be exhausted if they don't even put effort into communication.

I think one day you will get tired of being you.

[strrrng]

I think one day you will get tired of being you.

lol @ you