Conflict relations: acting like your conflictor's dual

[JuJu]

Have you ever, for any reason, acted like your conflictor's dual?

Currently, I'm in a course with a ISTj--who is famous and influential in journalism--and I don't wanna f* it up by 'conflicting' ... In the classes, (only three so far,) I've consciously acted like a ENFj--currently, I am one of his favorite students lol... It takes tremendous effort to act this way--I feel like a total asshole doing it--and I'm going to stop b/c my conscience tells me it's wrong.

The reason I'm posting is b/c I'm wondering if anyone else has had experiences like this..? I.e. where it's been in your best interest to have a positive relationship with your conflictor? How did you handle it..?

[Mediator Kam]

not hard for me, I just tell ENTj about my feelings in a quiet voice and they go awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

pure win.

[Khamelion]

i havn't figured out to do it really. mainly i have to keep myself from being forcefully opinionated and make my opinions sound as silly as possible. then i have to make a bunch of random noises that don't any meaning to them but they are amusing. and dress real pretty and smell nice ALL the time.

the part i havn't figured out is appreciating Ti....>_>


i got the Fe and Si down though foSHO...easy

[redbaron]

just act kinda charmingly stuck-up, try to hold my cards close to the vest the way INFj would. lol keep my mouth shut too. being mysterious can hide a lot.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

not hard for me, I just tell ENTj about my feelings in a quiet voice and they go awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

pure win.

Really? My grandmother has a friend that we've typed as ENTj, and he hates talking about his feelings.

[Mediator Kam]

Really? My grandmother has a friend that we've typed as ENTj, and he hates talking about his feelings.

Not surprised tbh. But this ENTj girl, whenever I kinda told her something about my personal life that I guess you would consider "cute" in some way, she's like awwwww, that's cute.

Now her, she never does. Even when she was talking about her aunt who was dying of cancer, she told us matter-of-factly, without much emotion. You could tell she loves her, but it was still matter-of fact in it's telling.

[DirectorAbbie]

I have a teacher who's an INFp. She likes me, probably because rude males can easily activate my . I try not to use any around her, mostly just sticking with .

I also have a teacher who's an ESTp. We clash. He's the new ceramics teacher. I am in ceramics III and was the previous teacher's assistant. He's a painter and not much good at ceramics. The way he runs the classroom is totally inefficient! He pugs the clas by hand when we have a machine to do it, then he complains that he has to pug so much. I keep using on him because I'm more likely to succeed in a thinking battle than a sensing one.

[Suomea]

i havn't figured out to do it really. mainly i have to keep myself from being forcefully opinionated and make my opinions sound as silly as possible. then i have to make a bunch of random noises that don't any meaning to them but they are amusing. and dress real pretty and smell nice ALL the time.

the part i havn't figured out is appreciating Ti....>_>


i got the Fe and Si down though foSHO...easy

Yeah the random noises are important....

[Bardia]

I just have to smile and go along with all their crazy ideas.

[unefille]

Have I ever behaved like, and been accepted as, an IEE? I would have to say YES.

It probably works in 'lighter' environments, with very little riding on the outcome and the atmosphere being primarily a calm but social one. When does EIE slip out? When I get too carried away with any Fe or Se in the atmosphere, or in group/team pursuits, where my competitive streak and my tendency toward being controlling emerge.

[jewels]

I had an ISTj boss...I didn't act that differently, but I did a few things.

1) I made a point to be friendlier than normal, as he really appreciated a big warm "good morning!!" Where as I would normally just slink into work and half nod at people.

2) I was quieter (to hide my ENFP-ness)

3) I acted more serious (and did not talk about my silly Ne ideas that would come to mind)

4) I nodded a lot and took notes

So I really wasn't acting that different, but my goal was to not offend him, as I knew if I was myself it might really ruin his day.

I didn't act like an ENFj, but I simply hid how disorganized my thoughts really are. And I made a point to not verbally clarify things like I normally like to do.

I sorta liked his predictability though. He would come by the same times each day to check on things. So I always felt I knew what was going on, and he was bold with telling the right people what needed to happen when (no fear of offending people), and all in all I think he did a great job as a boss. ISTjs are really good at management I gotta say.

[HKitty]

I had an ISTj boss...I didn't act that differently, but I did a few things.

1) I made a point to be friendlier than normal, as he really appreciated a big warm "good morning!!" Where as I would normally just slink into work and half nod at people.

2) I was quieter (to hide my ENFP-ness)

3) I acted more serious (and did not talk about my silly Ne ideas that would come to mind)

4) I nodded a lot and took notes

So I really wasn't acting that different, but my goal was to not offend him, as I knew if I was myself it might really ruin his day.

I didn't act like an ENFj, but I simply hid how disorganized my thoughts really are. And I made a point to not verbally clarify things like I normally like to do.

I sorta liked his predictability though. He would come by the same times each day to check on things. So I always felt I knew what was going on, and he was bold with telling the right people what needed to happen when (no fear of offending people), and all in all I think he did a great job as a boss. ISTjs are really good at management I gotta say.

That's like what I did for this ESTJ who's the supervisor of our school's tutoring program. I'm one of the few tutors (or people at all) who actually show up, so there's always some time to converse with each other.
I didn't really fake being LSE or his dual or anything else, but I just kept my Fe on the serious low, stayed rather quiet (that part's not hard at all) and tried to talk very very clearly.

[munenori2]

You all a bunch of filthy pretenderz!@!!!

[Darkstar]

but it is when you make your conflictor act as your dual you have won!


aaaahahahahah(crazy laugh with lightning in the background)

[betterthandead]

Seems like a lot of people "have to change" to work with someone who is opposite or at least P vs J mentality.

[redbaron]

Seems like a lot of people "have to change" to work with someone who is opposite or at least P vs J mentality.

dealing with rationals sometimes makes me crazy (yes, I know I'm married to one)

[Slacker]

I did volunteer work for an ISTj last year. I was careful to at least control my natural tendencies for the two hours a week I worked for her. And I tried to express more Fe. She and I did get along pretty well. I don't think I'd be able to pull it off for a long time in a closer relationship or anything, but one of the useful things about understanding Socionics IMO is being able to improve these kinds of relationships that might have otherwise gone sour.

[redbaron]

You all a bunch of filthy pretenderz!@!!!

[redbaron]

I did volunteer work for an ISTj last year. I was careful to at least control my natural tendencies for the two hours a week I worked for her. And I tried to express more Fe. She and I did get along pretty well. I don't think I'd be able to pull it off for a long time in a closer relationship or anything, but one of the useful things about understanding Socionics IMO is being able to improve these kinds of relationships that might have otherwise gone sour.

Right. Not only that, but I feel like it can give you a window into the other person (assuming you have them typed correctly) that you otherwise wouldn't have. I had an SEI friend who used to look at me like "how did you know that about me??" all the time. I was just guessing but 90% of the time I was right.

[confused84]

I did volunteer work for an ISTj last year. I was careful to at least control my natural tendencies for the two hours a week I worked for her. And I tried to express more Fe. She and I did get along pretty well. I don't think I'd be able to pull it off for a long time in a closer relationship or anything, but one of the useful things about understanding Socionics IMO is being able to improve these kinds of relationships that might have otherwise gone sour.

I have become the quite the opposite Socionics helps me avoid those personalities so I can avoid anyone that isn't Alpha.

[Slacker]

I have become the quite the opposite Socionics helps me avoid those personalities so I can avoid anyone that isn't Alpha.

Good luck with that.

[Expat]

These days, I get along socially, superficially with SEIs by not going into during casual conversations and trying to be more , and understanding more where they come from when they do small talk. I have been sharing an office with a SEI for some 2 months now and we get along fine on a daily basis.

However, I still have a big problem working closely with SEIs, especially if they think they are the "boss" or that they have more practical experience on a subject and therefore they just know more. If I use argumentation, especially with base on information not gotten from personal experience, they tend to think (it seems to me) that I am just talking, maybe to attract attention (a reason), and react angrily by relying, ultimately, on force as in "I am the boss here". That forces me to spend time in using tactics to avoid that problem, which are a waste of time.

[Logos]

What of times when the SEI does in fact know more than you?

[redbaron]

What of times when the SEI does in fact know more than you?

do SEIs ever know more than LIEs? (teasing)

[Expat]

What of times when the SEI does in fact know more than you?

It may surprise you, but my first instinct, when I hear someone talk at length, with confidence, about a subject I know little about, and in which they seem to have practical experience, is to assume they do know more than myself. Only when I take a closer look, and double-check it with external evidence, do I eventually reach the conclusion of "wow he doesn't have a clue!"

[Nexus]

Yeah the random noises are important....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6UU6m3cqk

Is that you?

[Logos]

It may surprise you, but my first instinct, when I hear someone talk at length, with confidence, about a subject I know little about, and in which they seem to have practical experience, is to assume they do know more than myself. Only when I take a closer look, and double-check it with external evidence, do I eventually reach the conclusion of "wow he doesn't have a clue!"

But what when the SEI does in fact know more than you?

[Jimbean]

It may surprise you, but my first instinct, when I hear someone talk at length, with confidence, about a subject I know little about, and in which they seem to have practical experience, is to assume they do know more than myself. Only when I take a closer look, and double-check it with external evidence, do I eventually reach the conclusion of "wow he doesn't have a clue!"

yes, that always gets me too, how they can act as if they know something when in fact they do not, it must be related to their Te POLR.

[Park]

It may surprise you, but my first instinct, when I hear someone talk at length, with confidence, about a subject I know little about, and in which they seem to have practical experience, is to assume they do know more than myself. Only when I take a closer look, and double-check it with external evidence, do I eventually reach the conclusion of "wow he doesn't have a clue!"

That happens to me constantly.

[kensi]

Have you ever, for any reason, acted like your conflictor's dual?

Currently, I'm in a course with a ISTj--who is famous and influential in journalism--and I don't wanna f* it up by 'conflicting' ... In the classes, (only three so far,) I've consciously acted like a ENFj--currently, I am one of his favorite students lol... It takes tremendous effort to act this way--I feel like a total asshole doing it--and I'm going to stop b/c my conscience tells me it's wrong.

The reason I'm posting is b/c I'm wondering if anyone else has had experiences like this..? I.e. where it's been in your best interest to have a positive relationship with your conflictor? How did you handle it..?

yeah.. ive had some positive experiences with the Ti dominant type of ISTj (moreso intratim than the extratim variety) and a lot of these relationships seem to go very well at first at least on a superficiall level with one partner somehow awknowledging some sort of a significance in the other and vice versa but time and time again once conflicts develop in each parties interpersonal life they spill over extra- personally (if there is such a thing) and then the tongue-lashing begins......maybe its best to get the f* out of there before you put too much time in and it all comes crashing down on you...dunno.

[Expat]

But what when the SEI does in fact know more than you?

Then there is no problem and I don't interfere in his work.

It's not about my assuming that I automatically know more about everything than SEIs (or anyone else).

It's about this:

- I (say) take a car to a car mechanic, because I'm not that good in that
- SEI car mechanic starts to fix whatever it is
- then he makes a comment, and starts to do something, that raises my eyebrows as in "I think that noise the chain makes is due to the water in the radiator not being clean enough" (or whatever, I am inventing this example)
- that strikes me as odd, and I start asking, "well but why should that be the reason" or "are you sure? Maybe it's this or that"
- his reaction is to get annoyed and to say, "no, no, I've seen this happening before and it's exactly the reason" and essentially dismissing my objections as irrelevant
- for my own peace of mind, I look into books, or the internet, or ask other people who are car mechanics, or even, if it is very important, I read a lot about the subject
- until, finally, I reach the conclusion, which I even find surprising, "wow he has no clue, that explanation makes no sense".

I'm not just being arrogant. If it happens that I then raise the subject again, and the person (SEI or whatever) argues with something like "yes, yes, I know all that. But you're forgetting this+that+this etc", and it makes sense, then I go and either drop it or investigate further - and I may well conclude that I was wrong. No big deal, at least I learned something new in the process.

[Exodus]

My step-dad is SEE, and we get along ok. It's difficult to have real conversations with him. When he's trying to attract attention to himself I humor him in the most minimal way possible, and I avoid criticizing things he says that don't make sense (or are prejudiced) more than I would for most people.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think we might be thinking too deeply into things here. Can I give everybody a reality slap?

Expat, usually when experts act like that they just want your money of course. Psychological functions have little to do with it. So they're trying to sound overconfident because they want your business duh. I mean when you're in a position of power like that too many people let it go to their head. The cliche phrase money is the root of all evil is trite, but based on some truth.

I am miserable this past week because I had a horribly bad sore throat and I had to try about 7 different things before I found what cured it, and I had to do it on my own because other so-called professionals didn't know jack shit. But who cares, they already have my money lol. I was better off relying on myself to fix the problem but I didn't know that, because I don't get sick often and when I do get sick I kind of over-react.

[Exodus]

I think we might be thinking too deeply into things here. Can I give everybody a reality slap?

Expat, usually when experts act like that they just want your money of course. Psychological functions have little to do with it. So they're trying to sound overconfident because they want your business duh. I mean when you're in a position of power like that too many people let it go to their head. The cliche phrase money is the root of all evil is trite, but based on some truth.

I am miserable this past week because I had a horribly bad sore throat and I had to try about 7 different things before I found what cured it, and I had to do it on my own because other so-called professionals didn't know jack shit. But who cares, they already have my money lol. I was better off relying on myself to fix the problem but I didn't know that, because I don't get sick often and when I do get sick I kind of over-react.

Yeah, that doesn't have anything to do with socionics.

[Expat]

Expat, usually when experts act like that they just want your money of course. Psychological functions have little to do with it. So they're trying to sound overconfident because they want your business duh. I mean when you're in a position of power like that too many people let it go to their head. The cliche phrase money is the root of all evil is trite, but based on some truth.

The car mechanic example was just that - an example, and an imaginary one to boot. I have had that same kind of interaction where no money or power was involved.

[JWC3]

Have you ever, for any reason, acted like your conflictor's dual?

Currently, I'm in a course with a ISTj--who is famous and influential in journalism--and I don't wanna f* it up by 'conflicting' ... In the classes, (only three so far,) I've consciously acted like a ENFj--currently, I am one of his favorite students lol... It takes tremendous effort to act this way--I feel like a total asshole doing it--and I'm going to stop b/c my conscience tells me it's wrong.

The reason I'm posting is b/c I'm wondering if anyone else has had experiences like this..? I.e. where it's been in your best interest to have a positive relationship with your conflictor? How did you handle it..?

Wow, I bet looking back this is pretty embarrassing huh. *chuckles*

[xyz]

Why would you want to make your conflictor love you?

[Park]

Notice that the original post is from September '08. :wink:

Of course YOU'd notice that!

[Jarno]

Have you ever, for any reason, acted like your conflictor's dual?

Currently, I'm in a course with a ISTj--who is famous and influential in journalism--and I don't wanna f* it up by 'conflicting' ... In the classes, (only three so far,) I've consciously acted like a ENFj--currently, I am one of his favorite students lol... It takes tremendous effort to act this way--I feel like a total asshole doing it--and I'm going to stop b/c my conscience tells me it's wrong.

The reason I'm posting is b/c I'm wondering if anyone else has had experiences like this..? I.e. where it's been in your best interest to have a positive relationship with your conflictor? How did you handle it..?

am I missing something? You are ENFJ-ni so than ISTJ is your dual, not your conflictor.

anyways, once you start forcing things, desperately wanting them etc. You start to act funny and everything fucks up. Happened to me a lot of times.

[JuJu]

you're right JWC3... sometimes i read things I wrote in the past and cringe... i can't stand behind anything i wrote on Socionics before approx. Christmas 2008.





when i first came here in '05 and '06, thought i was enfj

then enfp for a long while

then infp briefly before everything clicked...



one of the reasons i'm hard on ppl like Steve Archon, Allie, etc is I feel like the pseudo-Socionics bs (e.g. "model x," which is just a misunderstanding of model a,) tossed around here wasted A LOT of my time... I guess I wouldn't have learned model A Socionics to the degree I have now if I didn't go through the aforementioned bs and learn from the others' (and my own) mistakes, but still--lots of time wasted, unfortunately...

only now are there a few English speaking Socionics experts to help ppl avoid pitfalls like what happened to me... (unfortunately the same pitfalls exist...)

thanks Isha for telling them. i appreciate it.