Enneagram, again

[Gilly]

Everyone is occupied by every fixation, just like everyone uses every function; what matters is which one is your dominant one, the one that most affects your behavior and day-to-day life. Its a matter of degree, not presence or lack.

Tereg is an E9w1 and IEE-Ne as well, so that would seem to make sense.

[Gilly]

A fighter and a tiger? Sounds more like EIE than IEE...

*whistles*

[FDG]

Well from the way you write, and from the (little) bits you've revealed of yourself and your life-story and your family-story and the way you relate to the world, I would say that you're an aggressive-triad type. I'd also leave 8 away because I don't think that IEE can be 8s. This leaves 7, and 3.

Why doesn't type 7 fit you?

[strrrng]

1's are "idealists"; they are part of the frustration object relations triad. This basically means that they are constantly focusing on the "shoulds" - their inner ideals - for the world, but rarely feel that they are being met. The 9, on the other hand, is part of the attachment object relations triad. Their concern is maintaining an overall connectedness with things (and internally), so they focus on associating themselves with certain things/ideas/etc to maintain this feeling of unity. Also, 1's are more present-based and concerned with working within systems, whereas 9's are more past focused and tend to play down negative feelings in order to feel at peace. Lastly, 1's are part of the compliant social style; their social attitude is basically that of a reformer. They notice what needs to be "cleaned up" and believe that they are the ones who need to do it. The 9's are part of the withdrawn social style; they are basically casually reserved, generally friendly, but more concerned with their internal ideas that promote harmony than with any external exertion.

Sorry if that sounded like theoretical rambling lol.

[aka-kitsune]

Well, E3, E4, E5 and E7 could be me as well...so E1w9 vs. E9w1 could be just a flawed discussion. I'm every fixation and every type, I think...

E6!!!

Kidding. I think you're likely 9w1 based on your presentation here. Nines have some trouble defining themselves, their own needs/wants, etc. They're also positive outlook and idealistic. You seem to have a very friendly presence too. To you tend to be agreeable? Can you get along reasonably well with different kinds of personalities?

[Phaedrus]

I sound a lot more like the 1 in this description. But is an ENFp E-type1 even possible?

Of course not. You are defnitely not an E1.

Maybe I'm E4 and as I'm going through a really, really stressful phase right now, I've ended up in an E1-state lately?

No.

But then why am I so positive about life?

Because you are an E7.

[FDG]

The description of how they act externally fits me well, but somehow the internal description doesn't. I'm not afraid of pain or revealing anything bad about myself.

Almost no 7 relates strongly to that part of the negative description of 7s. Given that you say you externally act like a 7, and that you have been typed as a 7 by an expert, why don't you give another shot to this type?

[aka-kitsune]

The problem I have with E9 is that I REALLY don't relate to the "peaceful" description. I can be such a fighter. I fight quite friendly, but people always know where they have me, and I've seen people being annoyed with my critical views if they don't agree with me or if they take it personally. Also I have a hard time NOT expressing my opinion, and that can annoy people too. I want so much to improve things, but people sometimes get the idea I just want to be critical (I think some people perceive me a little like I perceive SLEs - too forceful). This part of me doesn't fit the E9 description.

But a w1 will have type 1 traits, which can include critical views, willingness to fight for their idealism if needed. I suppose you might be a 1w9 if you feel you're moreso 1 than 9. Do you not want to offend anyone for fear of them not liking you? Or more for the guilt you feel if you don't like them?

I am incredibly sensitive, but I don't like to manipulate people, so I brave up to tell people what I mean, and I don't change my opinion to please people, it's totally against everything I believe in. (I can change my opinion quite easily if people have convincing arguments, though. I'm not stubborn, I genuinely want what's better.) The only other E9 I've identified can say one thing to one person and then agree totally with the opposite opinion afterwards in the next office. I really dislike that quality, and it's not the way I act.

This doesn't sound like the "get along" tactic I've noted in E9 either. One of my close friends is an E9 and she's ALWAYS apologizing for things that aren't her fault. Whereas I feel like I should apologize for things that may be or may not be my fault, but really resent it and usually don't. I don't like feeling faulted, period.

Also, a lot of the E9s I've seen in videos are excellent at talking to crowds. I'm not like it, as I don't believe I know the answer to things, I rather pose questions, and I don't like preaching. I feel more like exchanging point of views, if you get me. Don't know if this is relevant, but all E9s I've seen seem so calm and introspect. I can be a firework of movement and ideas.

Eh, that's not a good criteria. Not all E9s are "excellent at talking to crowds". Just too nebulous to define an entire type. Not all E9s are calm either. Sometimes they can be hovering at disintegrationg point E6 when they've been under strain for awhile. The E9 I know often has a lot of nervous energy and yet can also be infernally agreeable in her attempts to avoid confronting difficult situations. That's the hallmark of E9 -- they often let things get out of hand because they're afraid of confronting alternatives. My friend was married to a jerk for 15 years because she just accepted that it was better than going it alone.

I really, really want "harmony", and I'm definitely a "Dreamer", but I don't feel like I'm afraid of "loss" or "separation", unless maybe if you talk about losing "myself". I sometimes feel I'm not really inside myself anymore, that the auto-pilot took me over, and the real me is absent. I have real problems hearing my own wants for myself, and often say NO to myself, or push myself to do what is "right" rather than what I really want or feel like. I would advice anyone to do what is "good for the real you" over what is "the right thing", still I don't let myself do what is "real for me".

Fear of losing yourself sounds more like E4, but not the "auto-pilot" bit. E4s tend to feel more alienated, like they're adrift and cut off from any kind of understanding and love. And E4s always clamor for what they want and feel it rather keenly; it's always what other people have and they can't get themselves. This also doesn't sound E7, because they usually assume that what feels good is good for them. (Even if it isn't). But again, this isn't absolute. Even an E7 will suffer to some degree for someone "worth" it to them for whatever reason.

Again, out of touch with self is very typical of E9.

Also I know what I mean about external things or other people's problems, and I always listen and give advices, but I somehow don't listen to myself. I push myself too far, and I accept too much. But it's more of a sadness for not giving myself a chance I feel, than a "fear" of losing myself. I don't think I fear losing other people neither. But as I'm never truly connected with myself, I never truly connect to many people. I have maybe 3 or 4 friends who know the "real me" and I wouldn't like to lose them, but I don't fear it. I do fear to give space to the real me, though, and maybe part of that fear is that the real me would force me to chose a different direction for my life. Maybe I'm afraid the real me would make me loose respect and achievements at work, but that's as far as I will go in seeing any fear in me...

Now see this sounds more like a self-aware E3. As well as being cut off from feeling. What is it about the "real you" that you're afraid of? The respect/achievement thing you mention here is really quite E3.

P.S. I know it seems I know all the answers to solve this, and still don't act upon them. You might be right I know what must be done, but it's very, very difficult to break the patterns that choke me. It feels impossible at times.

Again, sounds like E9 here. They can know something needs to be done and somehow avoid taking action for an endless amount of reasons.

My personality usually forces change through emotional crisis. I can't ignore things indefinitely.

[aka-kitsune]

Almost no 7 relates strongly to that part of the negative description of 7s. Given that you say you externally act like a 7, and that you have been typed as a 7 by an expert, why don't you give another shot to this type?

No offense intended, but 7s can often be really blind to negative aspects of E7 personality. They reframe negatives almost reflexively.

[Phaedrus]

I do consider 7, but it seems so wrong. I can't see what there is to learn from being a 7, and I'd actually like to be one.... What I meant about externally "look like" in social settings, I meant that I'm positive, happy, friendly and try to have fun. I don't act like a 7 in other ways, as I always do what I perceive is "right" over what I perceive is "fun". I just try to make it look as if I want that ("right") thing, as I want others to have fun. I'm more of an entertainer of others than of myself. Did that make sense?

I don't understand why you have such trouble seeing yourself as a 7. Almost everything you describe seem to fit very well. Your conception of the Enneagram types doesn't seem to be entirely correct, as you seem to overstress some aspects of some types and think that they are extremely important, when they in fact aren't. The overall impression of you is still that you are most likely a 7. And do you have any strong reason to believe that you are not an IEE?

[Lotus]

No offense intended, but 7s can often be really blind to negative aspects of E7 personality. They reframe negatives almost reflexively.

Maybe I misinterpreted him, but I think that was his point.

[Phaedrus]

You see E7 here? Please show me. I'm not at all assuming I couldn't be E7, I just feel it's one of the types that "could fit" but I hold other types more probable. E4 and E1 both sound more probable.

EI is completely incompatible with IEE, so you can't be both. E4 and E1 are also very different from each other, so I don't understand why you can't rule at least one of those two types out.

I think I'm IEE. However a lot of people in here try to convince me I'm Beta (just read this thread).

The most popular typing method on this forum is to start with the Quadra. But this Quadra typing method is also one of the most unreliable of all typing methods there are, and that's why so many people on this forum are mistyped. You should tell those people to go to hell, because they don't know a shit what they are talking about.

Do you clearly identify with all four dichotomies that define the IEE -- E, N, F, and p?

[FDG]

No offense intended, but 7s can often be really blind to negative aspects of E7 personality. They reframe negatives almost reflexively.

Yes, I agree, that's why I said that they (we) don't relate to that part. I personally don't think I "compulsively" try to "avoid" pain, but I definitely kind of try not to think about it and distract myself with other activities; anyway, Mimosa, it's not like 7s "always" do what they think it's "fun". I mean, nothing would ever get accomplished this way, right?

[Phaedrus]

As you can see the test has a hard time deciding whether 1 or 4 suits me better as well...

You are definitely not a 1, so that implies that you have either answered the test questions incorrectly or that the test is unreliable. It is totally obvious that you are not an ENTj, and everything suggests that you are an ENFp. And your Enneagram type is 7.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[aka-kitsune]

Your conception of the Enneagram types doesn't seem to be entirely correct, as you seem to overstress some aspects of some types and think that they are extremely important, when they in fact aren't.

Funny. I would say this is probably your problem with enneagram, Phaedrus.

[aka-kitsune]

You mean I should consider E7 more closely? What kind of negatives of an E7 do you see in me?

That comment abt E7s was a response to FDG. I was just emphasizing that E7s of all types are most blind to their flaws and tend to somehow rationalize them into positives. I didn't realize he was actually *making* that point rather than disagreeing with it.

I do think you're probably an E9.

I've made years of extensive study of E7 behavior and yours is entirely at odds with my understanding in many ways. Not that I'm any kind of expert, but next to E4, I've definitely spent more time investigating E7 motivations than any other type.

[aka-kitsune]

I just took this test: http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/evaltest.php (the first test)

And my scores for what types are more likely for me are:
You are most likely a type 4:
Type 4 - 9.3
Type 1 - 9
Type 9 - 8.7
Type 7 - 8.7
Type 6 - 8
Type 3 - 8
Type 8 - 5.7
Type 5 - 5.3
Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 1w9:
Wing 1w9 - 13.4
Wing 4w3 - 13.3
Wing 9w1 - 13.2
Wing 3w4 - 12.7
Wing 7w6 - 12.7
Wing 6w7 - 12.4
Wing 4w5 - 12
Wing 7w8 - 11.6
Wing 9w8 - 11.6
Wing 6w5 - 10.7
Wing 8w7 - 10.1
Wing 8w9 - 10.1
Wing 5w4 - 10

As you can see the test has a hard time deciding whether 1 or 4 suits me better as well...

I'd say either 1w9 or 9w1, but again, I'd lean toward 9w1, because your overall results for 3 and 6 were both high, and there's NO sign of E2 in your results at all! That's E4 disintegration.

[Phaedrus]

Funny. I would say this is probably your problem with enneagram, Phaedrus.

But it is not. Contrary to most people here, I take everything into consideration.

[Phaedrus]

Can an E7 move permanently to E1.......?

No. Now, forget about being a type 1. You are not a 1.

[Hitta]

I just took this test: http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/evaltest.php (the first test)

And my scores for what types are more likely for me are:
You are most likely a type 4:
Type 4 - 9.3
Type 1 - 9
Type 9 - 8.7
Type 7 - 8.7
Type 6 - 8
Type 3 - 8
Type 8 - 5.7
Type 5 - 5.3
Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 1w9:
Wing 1w9 - 13.4
Wing 4w3 - 13.3
Wing 9w1 - 13.2
Wing 3w4 - 12.7
Wing 7w6 - 12.7
Wing 6w7 - 12.4
Wing 4w5 - 12
Wing 7w8 - 11.6
Wing 9w8 - 11.6
Wing 6w5 - 10.7
Wing 8w7 - 10.1
Wing 8w9 - 10.1
Wing 5w4 - 10

As you can see the test has a hard time deciding whether 1 or 4 suits me better as well...

1 4 7 trifix

[FDG]

I actually do look a lot like an E7 the way I do 100 different things simultaneously and the way I love taking on challenges. Also I know I'm bad at narrowing down my options, and that seems very E7 as well. But I cope with all of this, even if it stresses me I can't make up my mind about things. And the coping makes me feel it can't be a real fixation? Unless of course I am blind to reality, and I don't cope at all, and that might actually be typical for an E7....

c'mon now, you're making it too complicated

I personally don't look very much like a 7 when I am very stressed: I tend to be grumpier, my energy levels are not as high as before, and perhaps more importantly I do not take up tasks with the expectation that I will enjoy executing them, but rather simply because it is what I am supposed to do at the given time.

If I were to see myself as E7, I sure am lousy at living for myself and my wants... Can an E7 move permanently to E1.......?

No, but how long have you been stressed? I have been in that position for 2, 3 months let's say. Sometimes contingencies of reality make it necessary to disintegrate.

[Ezra]

I personally don't look very much like a 7 when I am very stressed: I tend to be grumpier, my energy levels are not as high as before, and perhaps more importantly I do not take up tasks with the expectation that I will enjoy executing them, but rather simply because it is what I am supposed to do at the given time.

Ahhh, the joys of disintegration into One.

[FDG]

I AM a 1w9

I know for sure.

Then you can't be an ENFp...

[FDG]

Yeah, they keep telling me.

I KNOW I am 1w9.

My socionics type? Not 100% certain. Maybe I'm Fi-seeking and not Fi-base?

ENTj or ESTj?

[FDG]

I'm definitely Ni or Ne base. I'm certain.

I am also pretty sure I'm an irrational being. I'm just too flexible and messy and individualistic to be a rational. I am very outgoing when I'm with people, so any person seeing me would label me Ep. However, I don't spend so much time with people. I love staying at home to do some soul searching from time to time. Maybe I'm Ip-temperament? Ij is completely out of the question.

T/F? No idea. I think I could be Fi base or Fi seeking. I think that Fi HA could easily be confused for Fi base if you are in love with your HA. In MBTI tests I tend to score a little higher in T (<51%). Fe-valuing quadras seem more improbable, but I'm not sure. I have tested ENTP in a lot of MBTI tests (professional tests). I do tend to use a lot of Fe. I just feel like my inner scenery is more of a Fi country.

ENTj COULD be a possibility, but I even think INTp is more probable. Could I be a really outgoing ILI....? (Phaedrus would probably kill me for suggesting that. haha.)

I still think I'm IEE, but if it's impossible, then I must change my socionics type. My enneagram type is 1w9 for sure. I will never doubt it. I've seen my fears... .

I'm probably supposed to see a pattern here, but I don't. I tested IEE in several socionics tests, and the description of IEEs seemed to fit me very closely, so I decided for IEE almost immediately after learning about socionics. That makes thinking out of the box difficult. I still think I'm IEE... But I'm definitely 1w9. Fits me to perfection

So you're an ENFp 7. It's settled.

[Phaedrus]

Ij is completely out of the question.

But then E1 is also completely out of the question, because every 1 is a rational type.

I think I could be Fi base or Fi seeking.

You contradict yourself, because earlier you said that you are pretty sure that you are an irrational being.

I think that Fi HA could easily be confused for Fi base if you are in love with your HA.

That can never ever happen if you use a more reliable typing method.

In MBTI tests I tend to score a little higher in T (<51%). Fe-valuing quadras seem more improbable, but I'm not sure. I have tested ENTP in a lot of MBTI tests (professional tests). I do tend to use a lot of Fe. I just feel like my inner scenery is more of a Fi country.

That can probably only mean one thing: that you are either an ENTp or an ENFp -- and that you are definitely not an E1 but an E7. There is no way you can be an E1 if you get those test results. Totally impossible.

ENTj COULD be a possibility, but I even think INTp is more probable.

ENTj is not a possibility. Forget about that immediately. INTp is very unlikely.

Could I be a really outgoing ILI....? (Phaedrus would probably kill me for suggesting that. haha.)

Outgoing in what sense? I can be more "outgoing" in some situations than the most social of E types.

I still think I'm IEE, but if it's impossible, then I must change my socionics type.

And if so you must also accept that you are an E7.

My enneagram type is 1w9 for sure.

No, it isn't. For sure it isn't.

I will never doubt it. I've seen my fears... .

You will not only have to doubt it, you will have to get rid of that ridiculous idea. You don't have a choice here, I'm afraid. The picture you present of yourself is logically incoherent.

I'm probably supposed to see a pattern here, but I don't.

No, you don't. But I do. And you should listen to what I say. You cannot be an ENFp or an ENFp and an E1 at the same time.

I tested IEE in several socionics tests, and the description of IEEs seemed to fit me very closely, so I decided for IEE almost immediately after learning about socionics. That makes thinking out of the box difficult. I still think I'm IEE... But I'm definitely 1w9. Fits me to perfection

Since you are so sure that you are an E1 (although that is impossible if you are an irrational type), you should assume that you are neither an ENFp or an ENTp and see where it leads you. If you can find a better match than the ENFp, then you might be on to something, but that is not likely to happen. A more likely outcome is that you have to admit that you are not an E1 eventually. Time will tell.

[Phaedrus]

The only rational types I can seem to fit are ENFj and ENTj. I'm certain I'm 1w9.

You probably misunderstand the nature of the Enneagram types.

Edit: I know you are certain in your believes, Phaedrus, but I might be a walking contradiction, you know.

No, there are no contradictions in the world. That is a logical impossibility. If you don't understand that, you are probably an ethical type.

I freely admit I'm crap at socionics typing (yes comment on that).

If that is true, the most reliable source of information on your correct type is your test results. So your most likely type is ENTp or ENFp. We should dismiss any other type you might suggest as irrelevant.

But when it comes to my enneatype I've had help from a lot of different people.

That is also irrelevant.

Not to mention a type E1 enneagram coach who's also a friend, confirming my type today. I know I am E1.

There are many crappy Enneagram practitioners out there. We have no way to determine how good he or she is at typing you. Your test results are much more trustworthy, and according to them you are an E7.

Are you sure there is no possibility that I am a rational E1?

How would I know? I don't have nearly enough information about you to be able to make a certain typing of you. The available evidence suggests that you are an ENTp or an ENFp and that you are an E7. That' all I know for sure. If you are a rational type, you have answered those tests incorrectly and also described your own behaviour incorrectly. So if you are a rational type, you must be very confused and have a distorted view on yourself. And if so, we can't really trust anything you say.

I could be one of few because of my background.

No. Your background is irrelevant.

And if Fi is the reason behind my enneatype, then couldn't the Fi (a judging function) be reason enough to be typed an E1?

Any such functional is totally irrelevant and unreliable at the moment. Don't pay any attention to the functions before you have found your correct type by other means.

The enneagram is about fixations and motivations.

Irrelevant. The Enneagram is about the nine types too. Your understanding of the Enneagram types is very limited if you only focus on fixations and motivations.

It's not about looks or personalities.

Wrong.

Of course there are more typical types that will match, like IEE and E7 as you say, but do you really think we are born with a fixation?

We are born with a type. We are born with an Enneagram type, and we are born with a socionic type.

I think it comes from life experiences.

It doesn't. You are wrong.

And that means it will often be the same kind of enneatype for the same socionics type, but what if the life experiences are special?

Irrelevant.

I mean that I can be on fire with other people. I love talking with people. Specially deep, meaningful talks about why we exist... I am not afraid to initiate a chat, and I can also walk around and talk with a lot of different people if I go to a party.

Sounds like a typical ENFp. Definitely not an INTp, and definitely not an ENTj. They would never express it that way.

However, I don't have a lot of close friends, as I don't find a lot of people with whom I want to be close. I like being alone, and soul search or read.

Again very typical of ENFps. I know at least one in real life that has said almost the exact same things you say here.

I was a day dreamer all my life, and I like playing with ideas a lot. I do it every day, and suddenly I have Eureka moments where the whole wide world suddenly clicks into one big picture. I feel introverted, but I look extroverted.

That is very typical of leading types. Everything you say here confirms that ENFp is your most likely type. And it makes E1 look like an extremely unlikely type for you.

[strrrng]

1 4 7 trifix

Exactly.

[Phaedrus]

That is not true. I have tested E7 only ONCE, and that was a quick test where I also scored high in E1, E4 and medium high in E9.

You scored about equally high on all of those types, so it doesn't tell us much. Most Enneagram tests are very unreliable. Some longer ones are better than the rest, but when you score as you did the result is worthless.

I always score high in those. According to all other tests I am E1.

Definitely not. You don't know how to analyze test results -- that is obvious. Your test results does not suggest that you are a 1. They almost prove the opposite since you get so high scores on three types that are very different from type 1. It is more likely that you are one of the other types than that you are type 1.

And according to tests I have made on the internet I'm 9w1 or 1w9 or maybe 4w3.

Nonsense. You don't know what you are talking about.

Anyway I don't need to take any tests. I have seen my fixation.

Irrelevant. You are very bad at typing. So don't state anything as definite here.

And that means I know what my problem is. And I'm an E1.

No. If you don't stop this ridiculous claiming that you are type 1, I will lose all my respect for your intelligence.

I also fit the description of how E1s behave and what they dream of. I can't be any other type.

You are not allowed to say that, because you don't know what socionic type you are. If you are type 1, you are not an ENFp, and yet you believe that you are an ENFp. That means that you are wrong about something. Try to find out what mistake(s) you have made. We know for sure that you have made at least one big mistake.

Besides, the enneagram coach I told you about is supposed to be very good (she teaches the enneagram), and she is my friend so she knows how I act.

Enneagram practitioners usually don't understand the types. She is not trustworthy when it comes to typing.

She says I look E1.

And she definitely doesn't know what she's talking about. If she says that you look like a 1, then she is most likely a charlatan.

People are a little irritated with my perfectionism at times, as I always deliver better than them, putting pressure on others.

You have described your behaviour in a way that is inconsistent with type 1, so I don't care what you say here. You contradict yourself.

After telling her about my experiences facing my fears, she says there is no question I can be anything but E1.

Which means that either she or you are deluded. Don't you want to find out which one it is?

I knew that before she told me as well. I don't think you can confuse types once you have faced your fears.

But you are wrong.

You just understand it on a deep level.

Bullshit.

GOOD! Then we agree I am IEE. I thought so all along.

Idiot. Change your view on this immediately or I will treat you like dirt. Your choice.

And that makes me a highly unlikely IEE E-type 1.

No, it makes you brainwashed. You are definitely wrong about either your Enneagram type or your socionic type. If you are type 1, then you are deluded. If you are an IEE, then you don't understand the Enneagram types. The latter option is more likely because it doesn't make you look like a total moron, only like a person who needs to do some serious study. You have to correct your misconceptions.

[Phaedrus]

Then you admit you can't rely on tests, so don't use them as proof.

Read what I wrote carefully, and try to understand what I am trying to say. I only said that most Enneagram tests are unreliable -- and that means that the result on a single Enneagram test is not trustworthy. If you know how to analyze test results, you can draw some valid conclusions based on the result of several tests, and you can also draw some valid conclusions based on how you scored on the various Enneagram types in that single test. There is for example a huge difference between scoring highest on E1 and second highest on E9 compared to scoring highest on E1 and second highest on E8.

And MBTT tests are, relatively speaking, extremely reliable as indications of your correct socionic type. They are, as I stated, usually much more reliable than people's subjective functional analyses of what type they think they are. That's why the strongest argument for the hypothesis that you are an ENFp or an ENTp is your MBTI test result(s). You come across more like an ENFp than an ENTp, and your way or reasoning seems to suggest ENFp as well as what you identify with yourself. So ENFp is the most likely type for you at the moment -- and that necessarily means that E1 is an extremely unlikely type for you. And that means that your Enneagram practiotioner is most likely incompetent at typing you correctly.

Yes, but we can't rely on tests.

Hopefully, you now understand better why test results can sometimes be very reliable -- if, and only if, you can analyze them correctly.

I posted my scores earlier in this thread, so you should be able to read as well. It's not me "talking" it's me showing facts. I just copied the scores and they say 1w9. See for yourself, you can read. You can't deny that the tests say what they say.

I have seen the facts, but you don't understand what they indicate. You are not drawing the correct conclusions from the facts.

I would find that sad. But I know my enneatype. When I know something, even a threat like that can't make me change my mind. I am E1. And I seldom know anything for sure.

What you are above all else here is prejudiced and too cocky for your own good. You don't see the logical mistakes you are making in your reasonings, and one of the main reasons why you are unable to see where you draw incorrect conclusion is that you haven't studied these models in any depth yet. You have insufficient (and partly incorrect) knowledge about the types.

I know more than you seem to think.

Maybe, but I know much more than you think. I can only see very clearly that your knowledge of the types is immensely inferior to mine. That's all I can know for sure.

What's your E-type?

E5 of course.

Have you seen me? I think you would be surprised how controlled I am.

Has your Enneagram consultant studied V.I.? Does she know anything about the correlations between Enneatypes and socionic types? Does she know that your Enneagram type is inborn?

No. I have looked at my descriptions, and I just tried to be open. I am a perfectionist, and I don't want to miss possibilities, so before deciding for E1, I told about all kinds of activities you can see in me. That means I would also speak about how I act in growth and in stress.

Obviously you haven't studied the Enneagram types much. Every E1 is a rational type. The typical E1 is an ISTj. Now, even you must understand that it is totally impossible for an ISTj and an ENFp to be the same type, considering the fact that both your Enneatype and your socionic type is inborn.

No, this time you are wrong. Embrace the feeling or stay ignorant.

You are defending your limitations by ignoring the facts and refusing to study the things you have opinions on. Your attitude is unscientific and deserves no respect. You let your feelings blind your judgment.

I have always thought of myself as an IEE. I just thought I'd give you a chance to look into it as I know I'm 1w9 and you say that is not compatible with IEE. Since you still type me IEE, I don't know how saying "we agree about my socionics type" can offend you.

Your lack of intelligence, your bad judgment, and your absent capacity for correct logical reasoning insult me. I hate to try to explain things to idiots, and right now you are acting like one. Hopefully you will realize that and change your attitude.

Again, you have gotten it wrong.

No.

Go on and disrespect me and stay an ignorant, or if you truly want to learn, ask me the questions you need to understand the mechanisms and see the patterns. I know I am 1w9.

Think through -- carefully and seriously -- what I have said. If you really want to find the truth about your type(s), I can help you. But if you insist on your idiotic attitude, you will remain ignorant and brainwashed. The choice is yours.

[Ezra]

MP, I'll settle for EII 1w9.

I'll settle for IEE 7w6.

What I will not settle for is IEE 1w9.

In fact, no one will. The forum is against you on this one, I'm afraid.

[Phaedrus]

I have not been stubborn or closed to your opinions. However, E7 does not seem to suit. If you can convince me otherwise, please try, but I won't be convinced unless you really find a reason I should be E7.

Instead of insisting that you know for sure that you are an E1 you should try to find the solution to this very interesting empirical phenomenon. There must be an explanation for the fact that you think that E7 doesn't suit you very well. But the explanation cannot be that you are an ENFp and and E1. That option simply doesn't exist. So you have to find another and better solution to the problem. Why not explore every possible solution you can come up with? Use your (if you have that function in your ego block) and try to be creative. How many possible explanations can you come up with?

And with me you can't just say "because I said so". Doesn't help. I will not believe you. I need to see evidence. Telling me the evidences are there gives NOTHING. If you are an expert on socionics, you should know that much about my type.

You are the one of us who has closed the case prematurely, not I. I am not absolutely sure of your socionic type, and I am not absolutely sure of your Enneagram type. The only thing I know for certain is that you cannot be both an ENFp and an E1. An ISTj cannot be the same type as an ENFp. It's just not possible.

I'll copy from this page : http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
(If it's not a good place to start, please give an alternative)

It's not the best place to start. Try this one instead: http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142857369/

"Sevens are extroverted, optimistic, versatile, and spontaneous. Playful, high-spirited, and practical, they can also misapply their many talents, becoming over- extended, scattered, and undisciplined. They constantly seek new and exciting experiences, but can become distracted and exhausted by staying on the go. They typically have problems with impatience and impulsiveness. At their Best: they focus their talents on worthwhile goals, becoming appreciative, joyous, and satisfied."

The best type fit for this description is a leading type. Surely you must agree on that if you know the socionic types? So if you are an ENFp, you must identify with that description to at least some extent. If you don't identify with it you cannot be sure that you are an ENFp.

I am medium extroverted, sometimes playful (I especially try to be fun and inspiring with my children), most of the time more serious (also in private). Sometimes people perceive me a scatterbrain, but I'm not - I just think too fast to tell all steps, hehe.

What you describe here is extremely typical of leading types, and it is very typical of E7s.

I would never be scattered at work though, only at home. I undertake quite a lot of tasks, but I always finish them, and I finish at top. I do like to change jobs and learn new things, but I never quit until I feel I've fulfilled my mission where I work.

How do you determine whether you are a J or a P type? Why do you think that you are P?

I'm too loyal, I think. I am very impatient, but I almost never act impulsively.

It is almost impossible to imagine an ENFp that never acts impulsively.

I strive to always be ahead of my boss, and I'm always given excellent reports on my deliveries (I work in middle management). I have a specific dream, and economically I could go for it if I wanted, but I haven't yet, for the mere reason that I haven't found peace with myself yet. I think that to start your own business, you need to be mentally prepared. I have not felt quite there yet, but I've started to prepare my surroundings. I guess in one or two years I'll go for it 100%.

Once again: What are your reasons for believing that you are a P type?

Even though I tend to be too critical whenever people do sloppy work (I find most people a little too lazy, actually), I think a lot of people like me.

Why do you think you are P type? Why do you test as P? Don't you understand the questions in the tests?

I feel better when my house is not a mess, but I can't say I manage to keep it perfect. I work out on a regular basis.

I hope you realize that there are lots of pretty strong indications in what you describe that suggest that you are not a P but a J type? What is your explanation for that phenomenon?

Other than that I'm very flexible, at least if it involves people.

Flexible in what sense? What do you mean by the word "flexible"?

Fours are self-aware, sensitive, and reserved. They are emotionally honest, creative, and personal, but can also be moody and self-conscious. Withholding themselves from others due to feeling vulnerable and defective, they can also feel disdainful and exempt from ordinary ways of living. They typically have problems with melancholy, self-indulgence, and self-pity. At their Best: inspired and highly creative, they are able to renew themselves and transform their experiences.
I feel very sensitive (but I don't show it much), and if I'm stressed I withhold from others and can be moody, but I try not to show anyone. I have had a down period for about 3 months now, and I haven't met friends almost at all. I feel good about it, and work hard on myself to find a "greater sense" inside, looking for a way to make myself strong enough to go solo, to matter. To have a purpose. I have such "alone periods" from time to time, and I always come out with new knowledge about myself and life in general. I am creative (I have earned a lot of money both at work and outside of job because of creativity). I live a very normal life, but I find it ridiculous, thinking I should try to break patterns and live a life that will "matter" more, a life that will give more to the world (change it for the better)

You are obviously not an E4. There is no way that you are an E4.

Other than that, what can I tell...?
The feedback my subordinates give me at work is:
+ good listener, integrity, hard working, well-prepared
- impatient, perfectionistic

The feedback my bosses give me at work is:
+ accurate, dependable, friendly
- too idealistic, should try to be more subtle, should work on handling criticism better

This fits a J type better than a P type, but the evidence is not conclusive.

I'm in the board of directors in one organization (idealistic). It pays little. I am constantly asked to join other boards, but so far I have said no, not to strain myself. I chose the idealistic one over a really well-payed one for the reasons mentioned above (idealism).

I have been offered jobs that would have really boosted my career, but I have said no because of my family and because it will make it harder to achieve my goal.

It is not at all certain that you are an ENFp, based on what you have said in this post. But somehow you have managed to get the result ENFP on an MBTI test. So if you are not an ENFp you have answered some of the questions incorrectly.

If I am E7, then I don't see what good the enneagram can do for me. I work hard, I have a fixed life goal, I achieve my goals one by one, etc. What is there to learn from being an E7?

Let's try the hypothesis that you are not an E7. If so you are not an ENFp either. But if you are not an ENFp, what socionic type are you? And how do we explain your incorrect test results?

I find the path of growth for a E1 a lot more useful. And I know I have all the signs of an E1, from suppressed anger to fear of not being good enough.

Focus on your socionic type for a while. It's more important to find that one out.

If there is anything more I should look into, please tell me. But as I said, saying "I say... " doesn't help to change my mind. I have faced my fears, and it wasn't pretty. If you really want to convince me I'm not E1, please tell me where to look, and I'll give it a shot if I find your advices accurate.

Take a really close look at the four dichotomies (E/I, S/N, T/F, and J/P) in Socionics and MBTT. Try to determine for sure whether you might have misunderstood for example the J/P dichotomy. Take Sergei Ganin's Turbo Test at www.socionics.com . Focus on getting a deep and correct understanding of what those dichotomies really stand for and what type you really are, as that type is defined by those four dichotomies.

The problem with you so far, IME, is that you don't give me any reasons to doubt myself.

Now you have plenty of reasons to doubt your hypothesis that you are an ENFp.

(Why should I believe you are an expert? You haven't shown anything interesting in what you say)

Nothing of interest!? Then you clearly haven't read much of what I have posted on this forum the last years.

[strrrng]

MP, I'll settle for EII 1w9.

I'll settle for IEE 7w6.

What I will not settle for is IEE 1w9.

In fact, no one will. The forum is against you on this one, I'm afraid.

Agreed.


And MP, why are you posting stupid dichotomy bullshit from socionics.com? Ganin sucks the cock anyway, but you should know that this isn't myers briggs. We're not typing people as intuitives because of how dreamy and imaginative they are. It's about functional preferences, quadra values, etc.; not superficial behavioral characteristics.

[Phaedrus]

And MP, why are you posting stupid dichotomy bullshit from socionics.com?

Everything in there is commonly accepted general truths about the types in Socionics. If you object to it, you are denying the relevance of Socionics.

Ganin sucks the cock anyway, but you should know that this isn't myers briggs.

Every single piece of information in that Turbo test is perfectly correct and in perfect agreement with what you can find on just about every Russian socionic site you go to. There is no difference whatsoever in how the general differences between the types are described along the four dimensions in Socioncs and MBTT.

I am sick an tired of seeing people posting bullshit and totally false claims like you are doing here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Ganin's Turbo test. If you understand the four dichotomies correctly, you automatically know which type you are. Always, without exceptions.

We're not typing people as intuitives because of how dreamy and imaginative they are. It's about functional preferences, quadra values, etc.; not superficial behavioral characteristics.

More bullshit from you. You don't know what you are talking about. You are ignorant and brainwashed about this.

[unefille]

Everything in there is commonly accepted general truths about the types in Socionics. If you object to it, you are denying the relevance of Socionics.

Every single piece of information in that Turbo test is perfectly correct and in perfect agreement with what you can find on just about every Russian socionic site you go to. There is no difference whatsoever in how the general differences between the types are described along the four dimensions in Socioncs and MBTT.

I am sick an tired of seeing people posting bullshit and totally false claims like you are doing here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Ganin's Turbo test. If you understand the four dichotomies correctly, you automatically know which type you are. Always, without exceptions.

More bullshit from you. You don't know what you are talking about. You are ignorant and brainwashed about this.

Phaddy, I just want to say: I REALLY ADMIRE YOUR ENERGY. You are like an Energizer Bunny. Clearly your motto is: NEVER SAY DIE!

*applauds*

[hellothere]

If I am wrong, then anyway the path to growth of E1w9 will give me more than knowing about any other type. So that means 1w9 is perfect for me, no matter what others believe.

I think in the end this is what actually matters, all these personality systems are just there to be useful, to help people, so its good you've gotten something out of it, and its good you don't care what other people think.

[Phaedrus]

I think in the end this is what actually matters, all these personality systems are just there to be useful, to help people, so its good you've gotten something out of it, and its good you don't care what other people think.

No. These personality systems are not just there to be useful and to help people. Much more important is that they are true, that they correspond with reality. And it is always wrong not to care what other people think -- unless you are objectively right and they are objectively wrong, that is only if your beliefs are true. We know for a fact that that is not the case with every one of Mimosa Pudica's beliefs, because they contradict each other. So at least one of those beliefs is necessarily false.