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Thread: Johan Cruyff (soccerplayer / coach)

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    Default Johan Cruyff (soccerplayer / coach)

    This famous dutch soccer player who is a coach lately, and is asked often as a soccer analist. which type do you think he is?

    He's famous for his smart and funny quotes, like:

    - Football is simple. But the hardest thing is to play football in a simple way.
    - every advantage has its disadvantage
    - the italian team can't win from you, but you can lose from them. (??)
    - I never make errors because I have have an immense difficulty to make mistakes
    - I don't believe in God. In Spain all 22 players make a sign of the cross upon entering the pitch, if it works, the game is always going to be a tie.
    - ...well that's logical
    - Speed is often confused with insight. When I start running earlier than the others, I appear faster
    - Coincidence is logical.
    - If it isn't going well, then it isn't going well.
    - Before I make a mistake, I DO NOT make that mistake
    - If I wanted you to understand it, I would have explained it better

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    Ah Cruyff... I was watching his commentaries during the championships this year, and was constantly wondering about his type. His Ne is the funniest I have ever seen

    I can offer no good justification for it, but I'd say: LSE.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 09-08-2008 at 09:12 PM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    LSE
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I was just thinking:his wife Danny might actually be EIE, but darn, it's hard to find decent picture of her on Google, and I guess the video of their 1968 marriage doesn't reveal much either:

    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=xUbCqpjdZ3Y
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    I guess not many people know Cruyff...

    But he's a LIE.

    I'm quite certain about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I guess not many people know Cruyff...

    But he's a LIE.

    I'm quite certain about it.

    That was my "second in command" typing of Cruyff.

    Quotes such as:

    - Speed is often confused with insight. When I start running earlier than the others, I appear faster
    Seem to have something to do with
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Cruyff focus on "getting the job done". He says the skill of a player doesn't depend on making funny moves with the ball but on hitting the ball with the right force, to the right place, to your right mate, in order to make a good pass or to make a good shoot. He supports teamwork as a source of success. All this suggests

    Thus, SLE IMO

    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I guess not many people know Cruyff...

    But he's a LIE.

    I'm quite certain about it.
    Okay, let's hear why you think that. So far most of us seem to agree on leading Te, can you elaborate on how Ni manifests as his creative function?
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Cruyff focus on "getting the job done". He says the skill of a player doesn't depend on making funny moves with the ball but on hitting the ball with the right force, to the right place, to your right mate, in order to make a good pass or to make a good shoot. He supports teamwork as a source of success. All this suggests

    Thus, SLE IMO
    Funny, every single point you are making I would have used to argue for Te
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Okay, let's hear why you think that. So far most of us seem to agree on leading Te, can you elaborate on how Ni manifests as his creative function?
    Nope unfortunately I can not. I've used other typing methods.

    First: He's clearly a logical guy.
    Second: He has probably an EJ temperament.

    Which leaves only LSE and LIE as a type.

    Then I've typed him by comparison of other people.

    For example.

    He's way more rational (NT) and intuitive (Ni) then an LSE. All the LSE that I know of, couldn't behave like Cruyff does. They would behave different and use different words when they were asked to analyse a game.

    Another hint that I got, is a person which I have come to known a couple of weeks ago, who resembles Cruyff (VI and behaviour) and even uses the same sort of weird logic. I had the luxury to examine him and came to the conclusion he's an LIE.

    Last to say, it took me a while to type Cruyff, as you said he's somewhat difficult to type although he has some obvious characteristics. I'm still not 100% sure, but lets say 90%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Nope I can not. I've used other typing methods.

    First: He's clearly a logical guy.
    Second: He has likely an EJ temperament.

    Which leaves only LSE and LIE as a type.

    Then I've typed him by comparison of other people.

    For example.

    He's way more rational (NT) and intuitive (Ni) then an LSE. All the LSE that I know of, couldn't behave like Cruyff does. They would behave different and use different words when they were asked to analyse a game.

    Another big hint that I got, is a person which I have come to known a couple of weeks ago, who resembles Cruyff (VI and behaviour) and even uses the same sort of weird logic. I had the luxury to examine him and came to the conclusion he's an LIE.

    Last to say, it took me a while to type Cruyff, as you said he's a somewhat difficult to type although he has some obvious characteristics. I'm still not 100% sure, but lets say 90%.
    I get your point. I must say though, that what you call 'weird logic' imo is 'weird Ne', it is his attempt at 'abstract concept formation'. Also, and this is gut-feeling, he is what I'd like to call a typical LSE 'slungel' (my apologies to the non-Dutch speakers here, but I don't know a good English equivalent). He can also be very obstinate, always wants to do things his way and not compromise, he'd rather stands alone if he doesn't get his way (which can also be interpreted as him not having a lot of convincing power, i.e. Se), which seems more Delta than Gamma. I don't see a lot of anticipation on the future either, the way I see in people I believe to be LIEs.

    Last but not least: much of his outward behavior is type-unrelated: he still has a lot of typical Amsterdam loud-mouth behavior. For those who do not not what stereotypical Amsterdammers are like: basically Amsterdammers are to the Netherlands what New Yorkers are to the US.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    SLE

    total football is probably beta - playing out of position as long it's good for the team

    It is a system where a player who moves out of his position is replaced by another from his team, thus allowing the team to retain their intended organizational structure. In this fluid system, no footballer is fixed in their intended outfield role; anyone can be successively an attacker, a midfielder and a defender. The style was honed by Ajax coach Rinus Michels around the time Cruyff came to prominence.
    Cruyff was a playmaker, ammunitions provider and marksman rolled into one, with the ability to time a pass that has hardly "been equalled before or since". Nominally, Cruyff played centre forward in this system, but he would drop deep to confuse his markers or suddenly move to the wing with devastating effect. No one had seen a centre forward like that before. Due to the way Cruyff played his game, he is still referred to as "the total footballer."
    kuyt is the closest thing the netherlands has to cruyff, and he is another SLE

    Cruyff: I'd play Kuyt at right-back for Netherlands (which is not his position, at all)
    Dirk Kuyt is a player who is known throughout the world for his endless work rate and stamina as well as his aerial ability. Although he lacks technical finesse, he makes up for this with the distance he covers on the pitch. He is also known for his versatility; during his tenure at Liverpool he played right midfield, as a wide forward and as a striker.

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    More on kuyt (and cruyff's opinion as a retired coach)
    "Maybe I'd play with Dirk Kuyt as a right-back," Cruyff told Algemeen Dagblad. "Why not? Most opponents play without a left winger. I think Kuyt is better than we all think. He doesn't have to change his style of play at all. He can play like he always does, just a bit deeper."

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    i'm not sure what gives people the idea he has such strong logic because most of what he apparently thinks passes for "logic" is a bunch of non-sensical platitudes. it's cute in a sense but do any of you seriously think that shit is insightful.

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    agree with the "not necessarily insightful" bit, but logical =/= insightful

    I don't think much of his statements, nor do I think they showcase his logic

    still, i think there are many strong argument(s) for him being logical, are you actually disputing that?

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    Johann Cruyff: Ni-ENTj. Up to now, his best disciple is Pep Guardiola, another Ni-ENTj


    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    agree with Guardiola's typing

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    Yeah, makes sense.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    you guys also type Michael Laudrup LIE. But him and Cruyff never had a good teacher-student relationship. I remember Laudrup saying that him and Cruyff were very different in their thinking and acting styles (I can't remember exactly what his wording was. It was on danish television)
    n00bIEE

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    Nice an old thread of me. I can say I'm currently open to the possibility of LSE for Cruiijf. Although LIE is also still possible. I don't see anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dattebayo View Post
    you guys also type Michael Laudrup LIE. But him and Cruyff never had a good teacher-student relationship. I remember Laudrup saying that him and Cruyff were very different in their thinking and acting styles (I can't remember exactly what his wording was. It was on danish television)
    I don't. Maybe ESE. Maybe. He is too much of gentleman.

    Someone of his style of play would be forced to play CMF/DMF these days, much like Xavi Alonso. Always a pleasure to see players of his quality used offensively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dattebayo View Post
    you guys also type Michael Laudrup LIE. But him and Cruyff never had a good teacher-student relationship. I remember Laudrup saying that him and Cruyff were very different in their thinking and acting styles (I can't remember exactly what his wording was. It was on danish television)
    Johan Cruyff: LIE / ENTj
    Hristo Stoichkov: SLE / ESTp
    Josep Guardiola: LIE/ ENTj
    Ronald Koeman: LSI / ISTj
    Romario da Souza: SEE / ESFp

    ...Michael Laudrup...SLI / ISTp ???
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/...interview.html

    I am not sure but some stuff make me think he's not base function.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruyff
    JC: “Haha, she tells me every day. But she knows me. I won’t walk away. Never. And that is for two reasons. One, this opposition only fires me up more. These people think they can take over our club. Wrong! They made a mistake. And secondly, we are with many people now and I won’t abandon my brothers in arms. The more resistance we get, the more motivated we get… It’s the old “every disadvantage has it’s advantage” motto again, remember? It’s a mystery to us why these people are treating us like this and why the other two ( means Davids and Romer) are behaving like this. Every time we seemed to make progress, someone else cam from the shadows to put a knife in our back! Never in your face. Always from behind.”
    I originally typed him LSI but he could be SLE-Ti or something like that.

    I'm still trying to type him during this time and the conflict he has had with other members in Ajax.. He's a interesting individual

    http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/...s-victory.html

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