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Thread: How does the 7th (ignoring) function show in INFjs?

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    Default How does the 7th (ignoring) function show in INFjs?

    Hello, my dear, sweet quasi-identicals! (and people speaking for my dear, sweet quasi-identicals lol )

    How does your 7th/personal knowledge function ( ) manifest itself?

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    I'll write this under correction.

    I think the function in INFjs is basically the same as in ENFjs or INFps, so INFjs (and ISFjs) tend to read other people's emotions and empathize with them, but because it is subjected to , INFjs (and ISFjs) are more likely to pick up other people's emotions through the filter of their own . That is, INFjs tend to project onto others the emotions that they feel others should be feeling according to their own ethics and emotions .

    What I mean is that what I hear often from INFjs and ISFjs is a sort of second-guessing of my own emotions or motivations for doing or saying something, which is often not accurate but simply a projection of what they would feeling if doing or saying that.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    That is, INFjs tend to project onto others the emotions that they feel others should be feeling according to their own ethics and emotions .

    What I mean is that what I hear often from INFjs and ISFjs is a sort of second-guessing of my own emotions or motivations for doing or saying something, which is often not accurate but simply a projection of what they would feeling if doing or saying that.
    This is very accurate in my case. It's more of putting myself in other people's shoes than actually knowing what they are feeling at the time.

    I've been thinking about this these last few days. I think this is the reason why people think that infjs don't defend their own interests. I say "think" because our interest is not in preserving ourselves like other people do. For example, I am terrible at finding comebacks to agressive remarks someone might throw at me, so I just ignore. However, if you mess with my family, friends, or innocent people, then you will be destroyed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I'll write this under correction.

    I think the function in INFjs is basically the same as in ENFjs or INFps, so INFjs (and ISFjs) tend to read other people's emotions and empathize with them, but because it is subjected to , INFjs (and ISFjs) are more likely to pick up other people's emotions through the filter of their own . That is, INFjs tend to project onto others the emotions that they feel others should be feeling according to their own ethics and emotions .

    What I mean is that what I hear often from INFjs and ISFjs is a sort of second-guessing of my own emotions or motivations for doing or saying something, which is often not accurate but simply a projection of what they would feeling if doing or saying that.
    Of course! I'm just looking for anecdotes etc., if people are willing to give them. Something like Herzy's response in the ESTp thread (if you're willing to risk popping your head into ESTp territory, lol).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanum
    That is, INFjs tend to project onto others the emotions that they feel others should be feeling according to their own ethics and emotions .

    What I mean is that what I hear often from INFjs and ISFjs is a sort of second-guessing of my own emotions or motivations for doing or saying something, which is often not accurate but simply a projection of what they would feeling if doing or saying that.
    This is very accurate in my case. It's more of putting myself in other people's shoes than actually knowing what they are feeling at the time.

    I've been thinking about this these last few days. I think this is the reason why people think that infjs don't defend their own interests. I say "think" because our interest is not in preserving ourselves like other people do. For example, I am terrible at finding comebacks to agressive remarks someone might throw at me, so I just ignore. However, if you mess with my family, friends, or innocent people, then you will be destroyed.
    Hei, that's really true for me as well . Is it supposed to be? I'm an ENFp... but I'm the Feeling subtype, so perhaps that explains it... Just in case it's interesting:

    I also get angrier on others' behalf than I get on mine. And I'm unable to understand people's feelings directly... I'm able to empathize with them, that's all. I can "feel their pain" only if I've had it too, or one like it. Otherwise they can talk and talk and it leaves me... well, not "cold", but... I don't get as involved as I think I should. Sometimes, after I've met someone and we talked, I remember our talk and I wish I could have been more open to them. An ISFP friend of mine is different. He really feels people's pain, I think. I just feel my own and this helps me to understand theirs. Or I've got to think about it logically: "she's just been through this-and-that, so she's probably in such-and-such a state", and I try and pick up signs from her body language and facial expression, and then assemble it all into a kind of puzzle, which I then analyze: "OK, so she's fidgety and tense, so she might be nervous or tense or full of excess adrenaline, so what I'll do is this..." --which is a VERY roundabout way of doing it. But I can't do it directly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I'll write this under correction.

    I think the function in INFjs is basically the same as in ENFjs or INFps, so INFjs (and ISFjs) tend to read other people's emotions and empathize with them, but because it is subjected to , INFjs (and ISFjs) are more likely to pick up other people's emotions through the filter of their own . That is, INFjs tend to project onto others the emotions that they feel others should be feeling according to their own ethics and emotions .

    What I mean is that what I hear often from INFjs and ISFjs is a sort of second-guessing of my own emotions or motivations for doing or saying something, which is often not accurate but simply a projection of what they would feeling if doing or saying that.

    No. ISFjs think they know what people are feeling based on their and alone. They have no intuition to back up there and their second function is , so they rely only on what they can see externally. INFj's feelings about people is backed up with the creative function and that is what makes them good at figuring out things and people who are different from themselves. When I have shit in my life to figure out, I would not ask my ISFj friend as this is not her strength. My ISFj friend usually tells me what I should be feeling based on how she would feel. My INFj friend on the other hand empathizes but sees my feelings and personality as separate from hers and this along with what I guess must be the factor makes her very good at understanding me and others long before I do usually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    No. ISFjs think they know what people are feeling based on their and alone. They have no intuition to back up there and their second function is , so they rely only on what they can see externally. INFj's feelings about people is backed up with the creative function and that is what makes them good at figuring out things and people who are different from themselves. When I have shit in my life to figure out, I would not ask my ISFj friend as this is not her strength. My ISFj friend usually tells me what I should be feeling based on how she would feel. My INFj friend on the other hand empathizes but sees my feelings and personality as separate from hers and this along with what I guess must be the factor makes her very good at understanding me and others long before I do usually.
    Excellent point.

    I would only say that I agree 100% as far as ISFjs are concerned, but only partly on INFjs -- my experience is that INFjs do tend to read others' emotions as filtered through their , but they are open to consider other possibilities if these are pointed out to them due to their . Whereas ISFjs will usually insist on their -supported interpretation.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanum
    This is very accurate in my case. It's more of putting myself in other people's shoes than actually knowing what they are feeling at the time.

    I've been thinking about this these last few days. I think this is the reason why people think that infjs don't defend their own interests. I say "think" because our interest is not in preserving ourselves like other people do. For example, I am terrible at finding comebacks to agressive remarks someone might throw at me, so I just ignore. However, if you mess with my family, friends, or innocent people, then you will be destroyed.
    Exactly. This is something I've been trying to articulate for a while, it's something a lot of people find very puzzling.
    Possibly ethical-intuitive introvert.

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    I think that what you just described has to do with the PoLR, not the 7th function.

    The PoLR means that INFjs find it difficult to find the "right" amount of aggressiveness to apply, so they will shift from not defending their interests very strongly to suddenly "exploding" if pushed beyond a certain point. It is very different from ESTps who, though usually aggressive, know very well how to yield quietly to power and authority clearly superior to theirs.

    I've been thinking how that explains the shifts in the use of power by Tsar Nicholas II and King Louis XVI, both INFjs in my opinion, during the Russian and French Revolutions -- but that's just a theory of mine.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    It makes more sense that it would be about Se than Fe, but interesting all the same (though maybe off topic).
    Possibly ethical-intuitive introvert.

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    I wish I knew more about each of those geometric symbols

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    Se
    Si

    Ne
    Ni

    Te
    Ti

    Fe
    Fi

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    what I was referring to, which I didn't do a good job explaining, was how could you describe each of them. Like for example, saying that is represented by so-and-so actions.

    Then maybe I could help to answer ishysquyshi's... ishysquishy? or ishysquyshy? Oh ok I found it hehe, "ishysquishy's" question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanum
    what I was referring to, which I didn't do a good job explaining, was how could you describe each of them. Like for example, saying that is represented by so-and-so actions.

    Then maybe I could help to answer ishysquyshi's... ishysquishy? or ishysquyshy? Oh ok I found it hehe, "ishysquishy's" question.
    Just "ishy" or "isha" is fine

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    Ishy is a lot easier. I'll need one for Schr"odinger's cat too... Does anyone know where I can get a description of each of the geometric figures?

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    nevermind, I found it in the general discussion area

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    It's subconscious. What Fe base does is take from a conglomerate of tendency from society as a whole. They will say something like "people believe such and such" or "there's a comment belief about this" and EII will resort to base function interpreting things from a personal and subjective viewpoint "I feel.." Fe works but just like all subconscious functions slowly over a longer time because you're constantly engaged with the base function.

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    Fe is so external and picks up things like all extrovert functions do. With wide open senses (small case s). Fi is enclose, within, most often ignoring by no choice of it's own, the external happenings. Shutting a lot out.

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    @Maritsa You look sad.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Waster View Post
    @Maritsa You look sad.
    That's my normal face. People think I'm cheery and smiley. I'm actually very even on the outside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    That's my normal face. People think I'm cheery and smiley. I'm actually very even on the outside.
    SLI confirm.





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    Wow, that's a very old post revived by Maritsa, but a very interesting one. Well, it's interesting to me becasue I've been thinking about how my Fe works and I have quite a definite idea about it and no one has mentioned anything similar to it yet. So let me be the first EIE to say this here The 7th function (ignoring or limiting function) is believed (by some) to be triggered by stress. Plainly speaking, it's our method of getting out of an unpleasant situation, of stopping undesirable behaviour of other people. It's even used in typing - try to stress the person you're typing, say something nasty and notice the way he/she reacts, what function he/she resorts to. That'll be the 7th function. So an ILE or an IEE, when stressed, will say that "they've got no time (for this)!" And I will resort to Fe when I need to stop somebody misbehaving (at least, when I THINK they are misbehaving). My mood will just drop and I'll show my displeasure quite plainly. And, unfortunately, so it'll stay unless/until the other person repents and atones for his sins This makes it quite hard for my friends from the first quadra, so I try to hold myself in check and not let fly in 90% cases.
    There's also an opinion that our 7th function is aimed at limiting the role acting of our dual (as role acting can be quite exhausting). So when an LSE starts clowning around it's my task to tone it down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sergeyeva View Post
    Wow, that's a very old post revived by Maritsa, but a very interesting one. Well, it's interesting to me becasue I've been thinking about how my Fe works and I have quite a definite idea about it and no one has mentioned anything similar to it yet. So let me be the first EIE to say this here The 7th function (ignoring or limiting function) is believed (by some) to be triggered by stress. Plainly speaking, it's our method of getting out of an unpleasant situation, of stopping undesirable behaviour of other people. It's even used in typing - try to stress the person you're typing, say something nasty and notice the way he/she reacts, what function he/she resorts to. That'll be the 7th function. So an ILE or an IEE, when stressed, will say that "they've got no time (for this)!" And I will resort to Fe when I need to stop somebody misbehaving (at least, when I THINK they are misbehaving). My mood will just drop and I'll show my displeasure quite plainly. And, unfortunately, so it'll stay unless/until the other person repents and atones for his sins This makes it quite hard for my friends from the first quadra, so I try to hold myself in check and not let fly in 90% cases.
    There's also an opinion that our 7th function is aimed at limiting the role acting of our dual (as role acting can be quite exhausting). So when an LSE starts clowning around it's my task to tone it down.
    I tried to slow sol's clowning but I'm only doing it on the internet. What you're doing is still base function because you're making moral judgement on another's action. Trying to damper the atmosphere is EII

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    Fe has to do with how much extended norms and mores of society is observed. Fi is personal connections a small sphere and internal. It's like Fi is microworld of bacteria and Fe is all observable life.

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